NeverarGreat

Sir Ridley said:

NeverarGreat said:

RogueLeader said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Yep, that’s lampshading. And it very much does not work in this instance IMO.

Haha, you’re totally right, forgot that’s what that meant!

I know the whole concept is to maintain suspension of disbelief by being meta about it, I just don’t feel like it fits within this story. Like, it can work in certain stories, but I don’t think lampshading is appropriate every time when it can be done, you know?

Lampshading works really well in Marvel movies, since there’s always a wink to the audience as to the silliness of the situation, but I feel like Star Wars is more earnest than that.

Are you planning to keep Han’s line? “How do we blow it up? There’s always a way to do that.” That could work as a more subtle nod to the previous Death Stars and the line might be funnier if they didn’t compare it to the Death Star already.

Yep, and you’re right it might be funnier in this context.

RogueLeader said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Yep, that’s lampshading. And it very much does not work in this instance IMO.

Haha, you’re totally right, forgot that’s what that meant!

I know the whole concept is to maintain suspension of disbelief by being meta about it, I just don’t feel like it fits within this story. Like, it can work in certain stories, but I don’t think lampshading is appropriate every time when it can be done, you know?

Lampshading works really well in Marvel movies, since there’s always a wink to the audience as to the silliness of the situation, but I feel like Star Wars is more earnest than that.

Sir Ridley said:

NeverarGreat said:

More work on removing the Death Star hologram from the planning scene:

https://vimeo.com/323037027

Password: fanedit

It’s not perfect, but if you’re not looking for the change I think it’s fairly seamless.

Nicely done. Do you think the lampshading of there being “another Death Star” isn’t needed?

That’s a part of it. Another thing was brought up by someone here (I forget who), saying that they originally thought that the Starkiller was built within a planet to save cost compared to the Death Star. When they then saw how the Starkiller’s weapon emitter alone was almost the size of the Death Star, it negated that bit of cleverness.

That got me to thinking about how we never saw the Death Star directly compared to the size of a planet in ANH. If it were shown in proportion to Alderaan (assuming it’s an Earth-sized planet), it would be laughably tiny in comparison:

Even though the audience on some level understands that it’s the size of a very small moon, the way it is portrayed as large and imposing in the shot sells the threat.

So by removing comparisons to any object of reference, it’s easier to imagine the scale of the station to be whatever size makes the most sense for a person’s individual view of the First Order and their abilities.

More work on removing the Death Star hologram from the planning scene:

https://vimeo.com/323037027

Password: fanedit

It’s not perfect, but if you’re not looking for the change I think it’s fairly seamless.

RogueLeader said:

EDIT: Maybe the end of the animation could be altered to show that the Death Star internally has a multiple reactors, set up like spikes on a wheel, and instead of the proton torpedo going to the “center axle”, the center of the Death Star, it can go to one of the spokes where the explosion animation can happen. This isn’t necessary but it could be one option to help differentiate the ANH attack to the ROTJ attack.

I’m liking this idea a lot.

I think it would be easier to rebuild rather than repair, but as you say it streamlines the plot and I think adds a wonderful creepy undead vibe to the DS2 which ironically differentiates it from DS1.

And now I imagine that they literally made everything 3x larger in the DS2, so that everyone’s sitting in huge oversized chairs and pressing massive buttons from on stepstools in cavernous rooms.

DominicCobb said:

Personally I’m not a big fan of the restructured concept

You take that back.

ChainsawAsh said:

The DS1 had many design/engineering challenges that took nearly 20 years to overcome.

When they built DS2, they could do it in a fraction of the time because they knew what hurdles to expect and how to overcome them.

Don’t get me wrong, I like this idea (and generally dislike the two death stars in the OT for story/repetitive reasons), but the “Why’d DS2 take so much less time to make?” argument has never really held water for me. DS1 was the prototype, of course the “production” version (DS2) could be made much more quickly.

This assumes that the DS2 was identical to the DS1 (save some minor improvements here and there), but it had many improvements alluded to in ROTJ and it’s since established to be around 3x the size of the original. So I don’t buy the idea that it would take significantly less time than the original to plan and construct. However, if some source were to show that the Empire started the project 10 years after the start of the original Death Star, for example because the engineers already had many better and more ambitious ideas, then it would make much more sense.

How to Train Your Dragon 3: The Hidden World

We are told in TFA that she imagines an island while trying to sleep, and in TLJ she says that she’s seen the island ‘in dreams’. You’re right that a dream sequence wouldn’t outright contradict anything, but the only prior time in which this type of sequence has been done in Episodic Star Wars has been Anakin and his Force visions. I think there’s a strong assumption in Star Wars that such a sequence would be Force related even if it’s not explicit, and that’s the sort of assumption that I want to stay away from at the beginning of the movie anyway.

RogueLeader said:

How about a movie like War Horse, but it follows the life of a droid as it is being passed from owner to owner over a 50-100 year time period? Kind of a weird plot structure, with potentially interesting character interactions.

Bicentennial Man?

Interesting, I had forgotten that there was another track.

It still feels a bit catchy and cool for Star Wars, but it might indeed work better. Too bad he didn’t do something as weird as Jabba’s Baroque Recital.

EddieDean said:

I went back through your proposed changes, NeverarGreat. The vast, vast majority seem wonderful - this will definitely become my archival version. I have a couple of questions about a few of your items:

• Edit out Finn’s accidental activation of the Falcon’s game table. - I was going to advocate in favour of keeping this (nothing wrong with a cheeky easter egg so long as they’re not overdone), but then realised you are including it as part of Rey’s link with Kylo, which makes a lot of sense. So is the main reason you’re taking it out here just so you don’t repeat a shot? Or for the benefit of not putting a joke in that earlier scene for its tone? Or for using its lightness to contrast with the threat of Kylo overshadowing it in the interrogation? I don’t have an opinion either way, I’m just interested to know the thought process.

The idea of reusing the shot was quite speculative, and since I’m finding other places to use the other shots which would have gone in such an interrogation sequence it probably won’t end up being used there. As for whether the table scene is cut, the most recent mockup is about the best I can do so at some point I’ll need to make a decision as to whether it will stay. My original reasoning for removing this moment was that it was one reference too far in a movie filled with references, and one that for me legitimately distracts from the scene.

• Re-score the in-universe music in Maz’s castle to something more in keeping with the Byzantine decoration. - This is the only one I have a strong objection to! I really love this song. Which is subjective, and perhaps you don’t, but I don’t feel like the song not matching the decor (in a fictional universe only borrowing from our own) is strong enough to justify the change, especially weighed against the quality of the song.

I like a lot of Lin-Manuel’s music, from what I’ve heard anyway, but this song feels off to me, in the specific way that parts of JJ’s Star Wars aesthetic feels off. It’s difficult to describe exactly, but basically it’s a look and sound which is blunt, rounded off, obvious, in-your-face, etc. In contrast, the aesthetic of the OT was quite alien, with a lot of striking sounds and objects which nevertheless resisted obvious interpretation. This is one area in which The Last Jedi fares much better. But anyway, the song feels like a good fit for JJ’s aesthetic, but that’s why I have issues with it. I hope that made some sense.

• Kylo’s conversation with Snoke is bereft of Hux’s intrusion. Snoke does not learn the location of the Resistance Base in this film. - Sounds perfectly reasonable since this is using Hal’s edit as a foundation. Do you expect to need to do anything to TLJ (which AFAIK you don’t have plans to touch yet) in order to accommodate this? TESB didn’t need to explain ‘oh btw they’ve been found’, but again I’m just interested to know what if anything your plans are here.

My plan right now is actually to have Hux appear in the second Snoke scene, but only so that Snoke can order the Republic destroyed. I intend to keep the Resistance base a secret from the First Order, and I’m not worried about how the FO eventually learns of its location. If I never get to editing TLJ, it can just be something that they figured out offscreen (unless I have some brilliant idea and end up changing the end of TFA even more).

• Remove the final journey to Luke’s island. This material is instead repurposed as the dream sequence preceding the interrogation. The final shot of the film is the Falcon jumping to Hyperspace. - Perfectly good suggestion (coupled with buying the start of TLJ more time for the acquisition of bombers, etc), but again, just interested to know what knock-on effect you think this might have. Do you foresee needing to amend the opening of TLJ to get Rey in front of Luke?

As with the previous plan, I don’t think TLJ needs to be altered to show Rey landing on Luke’s planet or anything like that. It can just be assumed that she got there eventually, if I do end up nixing the ending of TFA. This is the part of the edit which is still very much in limbo right now.

After trying a lot of different approaches to a dream sequence on Jakku, I came to the conclusion that using actual footage of the island was a mistake. At this point in the story Rey should have little to no indication that she is Force sensitive. This has had ramifications for my plans later in the edit. The dream sequence of the island before the interrogation now feels odd because it comes largely out of nowhere, and since it happens right before the interrogation it would probably be fresh in Rey’s mind and Kylo would single it out more than he does already. After the interrogation there isn’t much room for any dream sequence, and only one time where Rey is knocked out. So who knows if the ending will change.

• Edit: You also mentioned withholding the Poe reveal on Takodana. Will you still be showing as much as possible of those lovely water-skimming shots, but just be cutting the cuts to Poe’s face?

In the original cut, the water skimming is a single shot which has been cut to reveal Poe, so I’ll just be rejoining the original shot and leaving his reveal for after ‘That’s one hell of a pilot!’.

OutboundFlight said:

My concern with this concept is that it diminishes the conclusion of Episode 4. It unnecessarily leaves the door open to future films, which feels off to me. I’m fine with them explaining these are the remains of DS1 in ROTJ. But I think ANH should end fully.

I think it comes down to the VFX for the explosion. I think it could be done in a way that shows catastrophic damage to the station (where there are almost certainly no survivors) and still keep some skeleton/large pieces intact. If so, it would have no effect on the end of ANH, while making the reconstruction even more disturbingly sinister in ROTJ.

RL, you had suggested a change to the restructure where Kylo senses Han, so here it is implemented:

https://vimeo.com/321409045

Password: fanedit

I decided to cut the preceding dialogue since it weirdly concerned only Rey and not the group of people Kylo knows are nearby.

If at the end of the saga Rey were to mostly lose her Force abilities, it would really serve to establish how the Force is returning to a state of balance and a counterpoint to the inherited greatness of the Skywalker’s abilities.

DominicCobb said:

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

Even if Rey isn’t a Skywalker, she is essentially the heir to that role and the bearer of their legacy. I believe it’s fitting that the end of the Skywalker story would focus on a non-Skywalker who will carry and pass on the torch after they’re gone.

If you want to talk about a heir, technically it would be Kylo aka Ben Solo who should inherit Anakin’s lightsaber and the Millennium Falcon as birthrights, being the only current surviving member of that family.

Obviously because of his history that will never be allowed to happen but he still has far more right to that legacy than Rey ever will who is essentially a random with a ridiculous affinity for the force…

Yep, that’s literally the point of her and Kylo’s characters. You’re so close, think about it a bit more and maybe you’ll understand the filmmakers’ intention and what I meant by “heir.”

Among possible responses, this was probably the most Waltersobchakeit.

You can pretty clearly see Star Destroyers in front of the Command ship in those space battle shots, so it’s not a continuity error.

The transition felt abrupt without the crossfade to Kylo, but it’s not ideal.

I kind of like the longer pause as the Starkiller hologram appears. Having ‘This is Starkiller Base’ is strange because of the emphasis on ‘This’, implying the Death Star lines, and is why it’s been cut. What is weirdest to me right now is the lack of center channel sound, so something will need to go there like computer sounds and such. Also, simply cutting the beginning of the shot would mean losing the continuity of the holographic terrain.

Moving back to Acts 2/3, here’s a look at one way to integrate Kylo into the Starkiller charging sequence.

https://vimeo.com/321387158

Password: fanedit

The other change, removing mention of the Death Star during the briefing, is a work in progress but I think it already improves the scene.

It always looked to me like half of his face was burned somehow resulting in him losing control, but it may just be the deep shadows in the shot.

SilverWook said:

That mental image will no doubt crop up the next time I watch the movie. The descriptions of death in the Star Wars novelization creeped me out as a kid.

That does bring up a question. Did the Rebels allow fleeing Imperials to escape? Or was there too much chaos going on to bother chasing them? Did Luke have any trouble getting back to Endor in what was probably Palpatine’s ride?

No! Don’t shoot! I’m General Skywalker!

Go on! Pull the other one!

I can’t imagine the Rebels would have gone after anyone lucky enough to escape the DS2, especially if they just waited while the Imperial fleet scampered off.

OutboundFlight said:

The Prequels are about Anakain’s fall, the Originals Anakin’s dark deeds and eventually redeemption. I think the Sequels are about Anakin’s legacy.

Although I am against having Anakin return in any form, this is an interesting point.

In fact more broadly the Sequels are concerned with legacy and legends, while the prequels were concerned with visions and prophecy. Both look to the originals for their power.

DuracellEnergizer said:

NeverarGreat said:

That is far and away the best fan film I’ve ever seen.

Are you saying it isn’t a lightsaber duel in search of a plot?

That there was no lightsabering didn’t even occur to me. It’s just great.