NeverarGreat

RogueLeader said:

The cut on the line, “We still can save him” feels a little weird initially, maybe because it cuts away as she is starting to talk. I know you’re kind of limited on how you can cut it, that’s just the one thing that stood out to me at first.

That’s been the toughest line to work around since the camera is on Han when she says it originally. Maybe if I cut to Han when he says ‘there’s nothing more we could do’, then have her say her line, then cut back to ‘You…me’.

adywan said:

NeverarGreat said:

The flaws are primarily a problem of the two main characters, and begin in TFA:
I would say Finn’s defining trauma is that of being a Stormtrooper realizing in his first battle that he’s not a killer. However, he immediately starts killing his own mates when the story needs him to, and this aspect of his character is never explored again.

I have seen a few people comment exactly the same type of thing, but they have misinterpreted that scene, even when it’s explained later in the film:

[FINN:]

But my first battle, I made a choice. I wasn’t going to kill for them. So I ran.

So it’s NOT that he isn’t a killer, he just refused to kill innocent civilians and that is the moment he sees them for what they are and decides to run. Slaughtering innocent unarmed people and killing during battle are two completely different things.

I realized right after posting that I had overlooked the larger problem in favor of that point which indeed is technically rationalized later (although I’d argue that him killing his own people without a qualm feels wrong regardless of his reasoning). The larger issue is that neither Finn nor Rey act in ways one would expect considering their lives up to that point.

There’s some impressive attention to detail here, despite the concessions for heavy traffic.

dgraham414 said:

I think instead of intercutting the scenes at the very end when the ties are coming with Kylo then Rey then hux I would do them one after the other. The energy of the scene is just too frantic for what feels like it should be a scene of suspense.

In other words less cutting when the ties arrive

Though I’m still pretty happy with that bit it might be worth another look. I was trying to give the scene more energy via cuts but maybe less is more.

Continuing with scenes about Ben’s past, I’ve taken another stab at the Han/Leia discussion:

https://vimeo.com/339205661
Password: fanedit

My first attempt at an edit was to cut the scene after Leia says ‘That’s when I lost you both’ to give it a more dour tone, but it’s important to show the difference between Han’s attitude and Leia’s. With this version I’ve cut the unnecessary explanation of why Han went back to smuggling, which means that the weird re-introduction of Ben could be cut as well (‘We lost our son…forever’). Most importantly, no Snoke.

Omni said:

DominicCobb said:

NeverarGreat said:

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

Cthulhunicron said:

Buzzfeed just reported that a script has been completed for a KOTOR movie.

Don’t trust Buzzfeed.

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

Omni said:

OutboundFlight said:

How so?

I think there’d be too many expectations from a lot of people that’d potentially ruin the films whichever way they go.

I’d be all in for more personal stories set during the Clone War, I think it’d really do wonders for that time period. We get some of it from the TV shows, but nothing actually good.

But yeah if they want to stay away from the main saga at all costs I think the old republic era is definitely the most logical pick. I really don’t want it to be a Jedi story though, I think it’d be cool to see more Rogue One-like films.

You say there’d be too many expectations, but the Clone Wars has an even greater chance of “offending” people as it is directly connected to the films. And while I love the era there are many OT fans who don’t want to return to the PT, and I respect that… TOR is a fresh start for everyone.

I think about it like the MCU. You have a ton of comics/books/games on the era, and the producers are now free to tell their own story. Most complaints regarding the ST from fans has been towards inconsistent writing (agree or disagree). But by adapting characters you would be more in an MCU position.

Man, the MCU is a lot of things but I don’t think I would ever say that it has “consistent writing.” The less SW can be like the MCU the better honestly (and I love the MCU).

Well, one thing you have to admit is how happy and united the fandom is. A consistent vision is my stab at the answer to that. While any piece of new SW material will divide people. I was convinced Endgame would divide people for providing a definitive ending… but that’s not the case.

I couldn’t care less whether the fandom is divided or not. I care about the quality of the movie. People love Endgame but that’s because they created the film in such a way that their main goal was fan service/not making fans mad. I think that’s a poor way to approach a film when it’s at the expense of the story (which I’d argue is the case with that film). But anyway, fans don’t care and eat it up. That’s why it’s well received, not because the MCU has a “consistent vision” which is a claim that has no basis in reality.

The big reason Endgame worked for me is that most of the characters got resonant, consistent conclusions to their arcs. I guess that could be called fanservice, since it’s something that fans of the characters wanted to see. This is in Stark contrast to, for example, the final season of Game of Thrones. Since the showrunners were supposedly working off of the author’s own notes I can only assume that the story beats were what Martin intended when he handed them off, but the rushed execution resulted in character arcs which became incoherent or dropped entirely by the end of the show. It’s the case of story over character, and it is much worse than the Endgame approach of character over story. I think the ST so far also has this problem (with TLJ being the worst offender so far) to the point that almost every major character is uncoupled from their defining flaw or trauma when it is convenient to the story.

When I say Endgame priotized fan service over story, understand that I consider character to be at least half of what makes a story. I would actually say Thrones is a perfect comparison to Endgame, where the conclusions make sense for the characters in a broad sense but none of the legwork is put in to make them feel earned or satisfying. The only glaring difference being that the MCU has never been all that invested in consistent and clear character development, whereas Thrones has always been very granular and gradual in that regard so descending into mostly spectacle only ends up feeling wrong for one of them (the other difference being that the MCU conclusions are crowd pleasing).

I’d say they both make TLJ seem like a masterpiece of character work in comparison (which is not necessarily something I would call it). TLJ is the only of the three that actually seems to take any interest in putting time into coherent character progression.

Agreed. TLJ’s fatal flaw to me is that I can’t, no matter how hard I try, get behind Rey. It’s of course due to her very unearned and unbelieavable force powers, IMO. It’s the only major problem I have with the movie - which I’ve come to the conclusion is the consequence of two things: the lack of a time gap between the TLJ and TFA (RIP suspension of disbelief that’d always been there for the saga to make us believe in off-screen progress throughout the years) and TFA’s portrayal of her. Sure TLJ took it even further, but it all started in TFA.

Still, her character progresses. One thing I’d understand people criticizing TLJ on is that it re-utilizes some of the very same arcs from TFA. Rey’s works very well, especially due to so little time having passed between the two films and the expansion on the ‘belonging’ aspect of her character. Finn’s character arc, for me, works well too. In TFA, he grew from running away to fighting for something bigger than himself - his friends. In TLJ, he goes from fighting for something bigger than himself but still something that mattered ‘only’ to him to fighting for something bigger than every one person can be - a cause. Poe’s arc in this movie is wonderful, and it’s the only part of the film where I don’t understand so many anger towards. I mean sure you can pick it apart, and criticize military strategy or whatever, but… ah whatever. Rose had a very nice character arc as well, going from the naive girl that believes in the black and white world to someone that finally sees grey and the reality and sadness of war, understands the cost and yet still believes in good. Unfortunately her character is part of a scene I dislike very much (“Not fighting what we hate - saving what we love”.) due to me believing Finn would’ve been able to take down the cannon while sacrificing himself and fulfilling his character arc, but oh well. He does have to be alive for the sequel, I guess.

Luke’s character arc in the film is definitely the cherry on top. I’m not really a fan of how it was set up, and I don’t fully buy what happened between him and Ben, but Hamill’s acting sells it enough for me to be able to fully enjoy the deconstruction of his character to his very core and the arc’s eventual fulfillment, in the most beautiful shot of the film.

Despite TLJ being far from a favorite of mine, I do not see where in the film do any characters “lack their defining flaw because plot”. I’d love to hear you expand on that, NeverarGreat. I don’t watch GOT so I can’t talk about that, but I saw Endgame as the ‘perfect’ ending to every one of the characters, Tony being the highlight due to being the best developed MCU character by a country mile. Cap also had a great sendoff and I quite liked Thor in the film, except for how some of the humor around him worked and all that. The other characters aren’t really worth mentioning I don’t think, because nothing really big happens to them. Maybe Black Widow but she didn’t really change that much in spite of everything that happened.

Edit: I probably derailed the thread pretty bad. Sorry OP and mods.

The flaws are primarily a problem of the two main characters, and begin in TFA:
I would say Finn’s defining trauma is that of being a Stormtrooper realizing in his first battle that he’s not a killer. However, he immediately starts killing his own mates when the story needs him to, and this aspect of his character is never explored again. Rey and her powers have been discussed enough, suffice to say that if her powers came from a dark place based on her hard life it would make infinitely more sense than casting her as a paragon of goodness and light.

Anyway, back to the subject of the thread.

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

Cthulhunicron said:

Buzzfeed just reported that a script has been completed for a KOTOR movie.

Don’t trust Buzzfeed.

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

Omni said:

OutboundFlight said:

How so?

I think there’d be too many expectations from a lot of people that’d potentially ruin the films whichever way they go.

I’d be all in for more personal stories set during the Clone War, I think it’d really do wonders for that time period. We get some of it from the TV shows, but nothing actually good.

But yeah if they want to stay away from the main saga at all costs I think the old republic era is definitely the most logical pick. I really don’t want it to be a Jedi story though, I think it’d be cool to see more Rogue One-like films.

You say there’d be too many expectations, but the Clone Wars has an even greater chance of “offending” people as it is directly connected to the films. And while I love the era there are many OT fans who don’t want to return to the PT, and I respect that… TOR is a fresh start for everyone.

I think about it like the MCU. You have a ton of comics/books/games on the era, and the producers are now free to tell their own story. Most complaints regarding the ST from fans has been towards inconsistent writing (agree or disagree). But by adapting characters you would be more in an MCU position.

Man, the MCU is a lot of things but I don’t think I would ever say that it has “consistent writing.” The less SW can be like the MCU the better honestly (and I love the MCU).

Well, one thing you have to admit is how happy and united the fandom is. A consistent vision is my stab at the answer to that. While any piece of new SW material will divide people. I was convinced Endgame would divide people for providing a definitive ending… but that’s not the case.

I couldn’t care less whether the fandom is divided or not. I care about the quality of the movie. People love Endgame but that’s because they created the film in such a way that their main goal was fan service/not making fans mad. I think that’s a poor way to approach a film when it’s at the expense of the story (which I’d argue is the case with that film). But anyway, fans don’t care and eat it up. That’s why it’s well received, not because the MCU has a “consistent vision” which is a claim that has no basis in reality.

The big reason Endgame worked for me is that most of the characters got resonant, consistent conclusions to their arcs. I guess that could be called fanservice, since it’s something that fans of the characters wanted to see. This is in Stark contrast to, for example, the final season of Game of Thrones. Since the showrunners were supposedly working off of the author’s own notes I can only assume that the story beats were what Martin intended when he handed them off, but the rushed execution resulted in character arcs which became incoherent or dropped entirely by the end of the show. It’s the case of story over character, and it is much worse than the Endgame approach of character over story. I think the ST so far also has this problem (with TLJ being the worst offender so far) to the point that almost every major character is uncoupled from their defining flaw or trauma when it is convenient to the story.

adywan said:

ray_afraid said:

Wow. I’ve long thought the officer uniforms in Jedi were green. Neat!

Yeh. The material they used was Feldgrau (Field Grey). Which looks grey in some light conditions, brown in others and even a slight green tint in others.

That seems to be a misrepresentation of what the color actually is. Feldgrau (which was used for German uniforms during WW2) is grey-green. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feldgrau

Here it is translated for displays:

Here it is unmodified as the bar on the right, and with a brightness adjustment to approximate the darker lighting of the uniform:

It looks to me like the Blu-ray actually has the uniform color about right.

LordZerome1080 said:

Every time C3PO sees Luke he calls him master Lucas but then calls him Luke to everyone else.

Accidentally did this in the TFA edit, and rendered it for amusement.

https://vimeo.com/338786748

I feel like there has to be an easier way to clean a static starfield.

Since the automated dust cleanup presumably erases stars, have you considered stabilizing the shot, running the cleanup, and layering it over the original on ‘darken’? Then if you had just a single frame manually cleaned, it could be overlaid on top of that with the blending on ‘lighten’, which would return the accidentally erased stars.

Good points all. The sequential version feels like it needs Rey waking up and being in that final map scene, but since I don’t have such a shot of her waking up, and since her costume changes back and forth for the map scene (among other reasons), I am leaning towards going back to the parallel version like Ziggy suggests. Definitely going to go further with the dream distortion in any case.

I’ve decided to leave this scene for the time being and come back to it when I can judge more passively.

In the meantime, the deleted Kylo on the Falcon scene needed some work:

https://vimeo.com/337922444
Password: fanedit

Just as Rey should be going down a darker path as the film progresses, this felt like an opportunity to push Kylo’s character in the direction of being more conflicted and tempted by the light. The laughter hopefully reads as a contrast to the anguished screams Rey hears in the castle.

Here’s a version with most of the Luke scene and the dream effect applied to the rest of the shots:

https://vimeo.com/336952153

Password: fanedit

I’ve also gone ahead and applied the final piece of the map to R2’s projection, now all that remains is to erase Rey from this one shot and she will be gone from the scene.

It still feels incomplete though. Maybe parallel editing wouldn’t be so bad if it was applied near the end of the two scenes. I’m imagining Rey meeting Luke, then cutting to R2 waking up and in place of the Leia scene having the final bit with Rey offering the lightsaber, then the map reveal.

Could we maybe have a before/after for these? I find that’s helpful in seeing the changes.

RogueLeader said:

Seems like it’d be a lot of work to cut Rey out of the map reveal scene. I do like the new sequence of events though (and the blue and rgb split!).

Also, why didn’t you keep the flickering light on R2? I think having him plugged up to the computer plus having the flickering light would help imply that something is in progress, if that makes sense.

I thought the light was working at cross-purposes to the display across from R2, and I think it might be better to have something like a red light blinking slowly on the display to indicate that progress.

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

There is a continuity issue that looks like it can’t be fixed: Rey’s appearance. She’s all cleaned up asleep, dirty in the map scene, then clean again with Finn.

Yeah, I don’t think Rey can appear in this final scene. I am working on a version of the scene where R2 projects the full map without BB-8’s help, so it should allow me to remove Rey in every shot except this one, which will take some more effort:

I guess the question becomes, which version of the edit has more promise? The sequential edit might lose the saber entirely as well as the Leia scene while also raising the question of where Rey is after the dream, whereas the parallel edit could keep these things while maybe not being the most intuitive from the outset.

Hal 9000 said:

The audio is rough, because I don’t want to sort out the intricacies unless we like where this is going. I wanted to try to re-include only Jar Jar getting his tongue caught in the energy (without any other clowning around), and this is the way it seems the scene has to be in order to make that work. Unfortunately, there’s a necessary shot of him wildly dropping the wrench in reaction to Anakin calling for him.

https://vimeo.com/336833977
password: fanedit

With Ani starting the pod with a literal wrench in the engine, now I can’t expect anything other than an explosion.

4throck said:

Perhaps your last suggestion - Rey’s dream and R2D2 finding the map. Should be clear enough 😉
And yes, leave all the sword and training stuff for TLJ. Here seeing Luke’s face is enough.

I’ll try that.

RogueLeader said:

I think I get what you’re describing. Honestly I think this is one of those things where you have to test it out, because it is hard to say what works better on description alone, at least in this case since it is a very different idea.

Here’s a rough idea of what it could look like.

https://vimeo.com/336731924

Password: fanedit

Though, it probably makes more sense to cut the brief scene with Leia in favor of 3PO announcing his intention to tell everyone, which would better explain Rey’s sudden appearance in the next scene.

What this sequence really cries out for IMO is a transition from Rey asleep to R2, but I don’t really want to reuse the same sleeping shot.

I am still trying to think of ways you might help make it very clear that this is a dream or vision of some kind. What about some kind of edge blur and a slight RGB split?

Your wish is my command (at least for the TFA bits of the dream).

Also, if you end the film with Rey leaving to go find Luke, do you think you might include a “Rey’s Journey” sequence in a potential TLJ edit where we see them jumping from planet to planet before she reaches Ach-To? I always loved that test you made for that idea, and I also like the added meaning of the various points on the map being another level of “Jedi steps”.

I think that would be very fun. It all depends on the available footage or if someone like EC Henry is willing to take on another render project.

dgraham414 said:

Do you have a rough cut of this?

I don’t think a rough cut would be particularly helpful at this stage, since so much is still being assembled. Maybe when I have all the big ideas in place and all that remains is polishing I’ll release something for comment and dissection. It’s getting there!

4throck said:

Nice, looks like ash or salt. I like it very much!

The dream sequence drags on a bit and I got confused. It felt a bit like parallel editing.
Perhaps a shorter, more mysterious sequence where we only see Luke from the back (and no sword).

Might that make it more confusing though? We would just assume it was Luke, and Rey wouldn’t actually make the unspoken plea for his training if I cut the saber.

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

I agree with 4throck. It did feel like parallel editting as opposed to a dream sequence. Yeah I would suggest it being shorter too…maybe adding some sort of dreamy filter either on top or something around the boarders of the frame aaand perhaps playing with the sounds by adding reverb or something.

I mean it is parallel editing.

When you suggest making it shorter, I assume that means cutting some of the music which would be problematic since that scene is carried almost entirely on the strength of that cue.

I guess I just want some more specific ideas for how the scene could be cut without parallel editing and without making it longer.

Some version of R2 finding the map could happen right after the night establishing shot, and after the map is revealed cut to Rey and the entire dream. Then it would probably need a transition shot before going back to Finn. In this case the entire Jedi Steps cue would be required for the dream, and additional time would be reserved for the mapfinding.

Alternately, Rey could dream of Luke before R2 finds the map, and the dream could end on the dramatic notes when Luke turns to face Rey. When the music goes quiet again, instead of the lightsaber it could cut back to R2 and have a condensed scene where 3PO says they must tell the others and the condensed map reveal. Cut back to Finn as usual. This version wouldn’t add any time to the sequence and avoid parallel editing.

Thoughts?

True Facts About the Mantis Shrimp

L.I.A.R

Darth Lucas said:

Sky_ said:

LordZerome1080 said:

Sky_ said:

does anyone know where i can get the HD version of this, I only have the DVD version when it first came out
thanks

Adywan is creating the HD version right now.

Ahhh ok that makes sense, thanks for the info dude

Just make sure it’s ready by my dogs bar mitsvah.

Is that determined by dog years or human years?

Thank you both!

I wanted to revisit an older idea, that of turning Jakku into more of a purgatory through lighting. The prior attempt worked well except for lasers and explosions which turned blue, so I played around some more with just bleaching the highlights and keeping the shadow/midtone reds the same:

This subtle approach seems to play nice with the explosions, as you can see.

Must agree that the original timing is the best.

I see the mind trick as more of a gradient difficulty depending on several factors, which include but are not limited to the weak-mindedness of the subject(s), the number of subjects, and how much you want the subjects to deviate from their intentions. On a scale of Not Really Tricky to Impossibly Tricky:

For Obi-wan vs the stormtroopers, it probably would have been easy to sway their minds and also to have them simply overlook a mildly suspicious pair of droids. However since it’s a group of Stormtroopers, he would have had to mind trick all of them to some extent for it to work. Moderately Tricky

Luke vs Bib Fortuna was probably on the easier side since it was just the one lackey, but not a walk in the park since he had to overrule a direct order. Mildly Tricky to Moderately Tricky depending on the Bib’s SAT score.

Qui-Gon vs Watto is right out due to biology. Impossibly Tricky

Rey vs Daniel Craig would seem simple because it’s just one trooper with a presumably weak mind, but it also goes directly against his orders. Mildly Tricky

RogueLeader said:

It’s possible that the hope of her parents returning was what allowed her to survive for so long. It was her willpower to preservere because of that hope.

Indeed. My interpretation of the character as written is that of devotee/true believer. TFA is steeped in Medieval European imagery more than the previous installments, and Rey’s characterization is similar to Galahad in search of the Grail (also a contrast to Anakin as Lancelot).

That’s the best explanation I’ve heard for the map’s origin.

It’s been a while since I’ve worked on the crawl, so here’s a new attempt coming at it fresh:

Luke Skywalker has failed.
Hiding in exile, his new order
of Jedi Knights lies in ruin,
vanquished from within.

Without the wisdom of
the Jedi, the galaxy has
begun to lose faith in
the fragile New Republic,
supporting instead the
sinister FIRST ORDER
which has vowed to
regain the power of the
once mighty Empire.

Desperate to win back
the faith of its people,
the Republic orders the
formation of a covert
RESISTANCE to find the
last Jedi and return the
light of hope to the
galaxy…