Neerb

Just watched the latest workprint. Looking good! I think I’m starting to develop stockholm syndrome for this movie…

Still trying to think of things to do during the first Ajan Kloss meeting. Even with no broadcast, and putting the “Somehow…” meme aside, the lines between Poe and Leia about Palpatine secretly always being behind everything from the shadows is just the worst, and Leia telling Rey “no” with no follow-up before she leaves is so awkward.

Isn’t the next scene Anakin and Obi-wan talking to her about how they’ve been assigned to protect her? You might be able to just cut the Palpatine meeting and let it be.

The real value of the Palpatine scene imo is that it’s basically the only mention of Dooku until Geonosis, but he’s underutilized in this movie (and its sequel) anyway.

Star Wars is just Bay’s Transformers and R2 is Bumblebee.

In fact, let’s work backwards from that: all of R2’s chirps and beeps and whistles are now sentences constructed through chopped up song lyrics, commercial and news soundbites, and show/movie quotes.

Sugary Saturday Morning cartoon cereal is definitely a better pick for RotJ, now that you mention.

I - Plain hot dogs with a Pepsi. Long, dull, eaten at the race track.
II - Southern pear salad. Unevenly cut, and with too much cheese.
III - Burnt steak with an undercooked vegetable. Supposedly it looks nicer in the recipe book.
IV - An American classic cheeseburger. The “Chef’s Special” comes with escargo, which means the chef personally adds a slug partway through the meal.
V - A loaded baked potato, with ice cream for dessert.
VI - A venison cheeseburger.
VII - A third burger? Maybe you should go with a kabob instead.
VIII - Jelly Belly “Beanboozled” jelly beans. Some people get a flavorfully good experience and appreciate the surprise, others walk away with a bad taste in their mouths and a feeling of betrayal.
IX - A fourth burger, served well before it was done, chopped into multiple pieces.

Remember how in TFA, Snoke’s hologram is giant? Imagine if that wasn’t just a hologram, and Snoke was actually that big. Good luck recycling Palpatine and RotJ’s ending with a villain like that.

Giga Snoke would have saved this trilogy before it was even in trouble.

natm said:

I don’t know if anybody has suggested this yet, but I have an idea for extra footage that could potentially be put in to smoothen the pacing. When rey and the others escape pasaana in Ochi’s ship, the next time we see the falcon it’s being flown to the first orders Star destroyer, and ren talks to the emperor. There is a deleted scene from the force awakens where kylo is in the falcon searching it, and he goes up to the pilot seat, clearly thinking about his dad. Since the falcons abandoned on pasaana, we could add this scene in so kylo is the one who flies the falcon back, and he hears voices of his dad/mom when he is in the falcon. This could be done with some vfx on his helmet to make the red cracks on it, and some color correction so it looks like pasaana when he is in the cockpit.

That’s a really interesting idea. I wonder if his TFA outfit would be too much of an issue, though. The helmet is missing the red cracks, sure, but his cloak in TFA is completely different as well, and there’s also a potential continuity issue of him not wearing his helmet in the previous Pasaana scenes.

There are snowtroopers in the scene too, which would severely limit the available shots or require even more intense special effects editing.

majoras_wrath said:

IMO, I think if you leave out the transports landing, but go straight to the interior shot of the stormtroopers disembarking and then charging into battle, it looks good. I also think muting the Battlefront footage would help, if you were to keep it in.

Strongly agree here. Not that I’m a big fan of the Battlefront stuff, but the landing is the worst part due to the odd speed and camera angle, and there shouldn’t be any voices when they leave so that it flows a bit better into Kylo’s reveal.

That was great! Yeah, the “world they know” thing, I was just throwing out ideas to move people away from the Fortnite broadcast by suggesting something a little less (hopefully, imo) ridiculous.

Maybe Palpatine’s line could be:

“The Final Order begins. Send the ships.”

Unless that’s too vague, or his cadence is too unnatural.

I’d recommend more restraint on the all-caps. There aren’t actually that many all-caps words in the old title crawls. The new films have overexagerrated it, especially the awful, awful original IX crawl, but I’d prefer a new one reign it in a bit.

IV: “DEATH STAR”
V: none
VI: “GALACTIC EMPIRE”
I: none
II: “ARMY OF THE REPUBLIC”
III: none
VII: “FIRST ORDER” “REPUBLIC” “RESISTANCE”
VIII: “FIRST ORDER” “RESISTANCE”
IX: “REVENGE” “EMPEROR PALPATINE” “GENERAL LEIA ORGANA” “REY” “FIRST ORDER” “KYLO REN”

Reference for what Lee looked like ~10 years before AotC.

I think if the “Somehow, Palpatine has returned” bit is going to be replaced with the group listening to something, a big fancy broadcast isn’t the way to go. Instead, we should hear Palpatine speaking with Pryde, distorted enough to sound like a secret recording but clear enough to recognize their voices. This places emphasis on the spy subplot and foreshadows both that someone high-ranking is the spy, as well as that Pryde’s loyalty lies with the Emperor and not the Supreme Leader. It also potentially works as a red herring. If we hear Richard Grant speaking in the spy message and then later see him as a new character in the First Order meeting, he and Hux eyeing each other suspiciously from across the table, then an observant audience member will likely come to one of two assumptions: either Hux is the spy (now foreshadowed instead of a random twist), or Pryde is (a red herring, making Hux’s reveal and death a bigger twist).

Edit: if we want to split Palpatine and Pryde’s conversation from later in the movie, and do a bit of sentence-mixing, we could do it like this:

Spy recording on Ajan Kloss:
Palpatine: “Send the ships to a world they know. Let it burn. The Final Order begins.”
Pryde: “Yes, my lord.”

This gives context to Poe’s line, “He calls it the Final Order. In 16 hours, attacks on all free worlds begin.”

Then in the meeting after Leia’s death:
Palpatine: “The princess of Alderaan has disrupted my plan, but her foolish act will be in vain. Come to me on Exegol, General Pryde.”
Pryde: “As I served you in the old wars, I serve you now.”
Palpatine: “She will come. Her friends will follow.”
Pryde: “Yes, my lord.”

This is the same “Yes, my lord” used twice, but it’s far enough apart and appropriate enough for the situation that I bet a casual audience member wouldn’t notice.

Part of me strongly agrees with jarbear. The 16 hour clock is even more unbelievable here than it was in TLJ, with all the planet-hopping and adventuring they do in TROS. In fact, I’m a bit surprised HAL’s edit of TLJ kept it.

On the other hand, while TLJ had the “relentlessly chased and running out of fuel” plot to make a specific timer unnecessary for a sense of urgency, the clock in TROS is really the only thing providing urgency in a very rushed story. The characters are constantly running from one place to another, and then in the finale they all rush to Exegol without any guarantee of backup. Without the clock, why would Rey not return to Ajan Kloss, the Resistance wait until they get more help, and then launch a more coordinated assault? The destruction of Kijimi could also provide this sense of urgency, at least in the end, but then you have to ask “would I rather have a single line saying there’s a clock, or the entire subplot of Palpatine having 10,000 Death Stars?,” and I think most will say they’d prefer the clock.

Ap’Lek: 6, 7, 8. 8’s accent is interesting, but… not present in his first line?

Kuruk: 5, 7. 5’s voice might be my favorite in general, but 7’s “lizardman” also fits how comically malicious this dialog is. Wish we could have both somehow, but 5 doesn’t seem to have lines for the other characters.

Ushar: 3, 8

Vicrul: 8, 7. Though I wonder if having dialog here is even beneficial to the scene.

Also, idk if it’s too late for dialog suggestions, but imo this group collectively has way too many uses of the words “traitor/traitorous/betray” and “scavenger/scavenger girl.” For example, I’d definitely go with the “Palpatine” line on Kijimi and the “join your father” line on Exegol, and Ap’lek’s “Traitor!” feels too much like a TFA meme.

AbramPT said:

Okay, so this is most likely excessive, but hear me out.

If we’re talking canon here, Rey’s father is less of an actual son of Palpatine, and more of a “son” in that he is a clone originally created to eventually house Palpatine’s consciousness. Since this edit is already emphasizing the cloning aspect of Palpatine on Exegol, it would be a real “chef’s kiss” moment if Rey’s father was deepfaked to have Ian McDiarmid’s facial features. It would also help remedy the fact that, because of how the theatrical movie plays out, we have all imagined old and disfigured Palps having sex with Rey’s grandmother and those thoughts are best kept in the recesses of our subconscious.

I know this is a bit late, and maybe not relevant to Hal’s cut specifically, but I was reminded of this comment today while watching the v2 workprint (which is great btw, Hal, as are the other planned changes).

If anyone really wants to lean into canon with the Palpatine clone thing for an edit of the movie, the absolute simplest, easiest way to do it, without deepfake special effects, is to just dub over two little words of dialog.

Kylo Ren to Rey in the hangar, original:
“My mother was the daughter of Vader. Your father was the son of the Emperor.”

Kylo to Rey in the hangar, edited:
“My mother was the daughter of Vader. Your father was a clone of the Emperor.”

Does this raise weird questions since it’s not elaborated on further? Maybe, but so does him having a son, and if anything this helps further cement the whole Palpatine is back from the dead because his spirit is in one of several clone bodies thing that the original movie glosses over.

DarthYcey said:

Something like this…

https://vimeo.com/420549863
fanedit

As someone else mentioned in the thread, Poe and Rey just met at the end of the last movie and they unnecessarily go at each other’s throats the next time we see them onscreen. I really didn’t like this scene at all, especially because of the lightspeed skipping talk, but it works now I think with some clever edits.

That’s not bad, but maybe too short in an already jumpy opening (though Hal might say otherwise).

Personally, I enjoyed their bit of back-and-forth in the theatrical. It was a bit hostile, but it was nice seeing some kind of relationship between them, and Finn trying to calm the two down works well from what the audience knew from the last movies, which is that Finn is the mutual friend keeping the group together while Rey and Poe aren’t that close.

On that note, another problem (besides just the length and my personal preference) with that edit is that Rey and Poe both seem to be in a bad mood, and while Poe might just be shaken by his adventure and disturbed by the news, I’m not sure why Rey would be upset after having just calmed herself in her previous scene.

Chase Adams said:

1. Hux saying, “Shall we destroy the city?”

I don’t even think that needs removed. I might be misremembering, but I think that line was said well before we actually knew the Star Destroyers were planet killers. Hux could just be suggesting they raze the city, or blow it up with a Juggernaut like we saw in TLJ, and I think he was being half-sarcastic there anyway to make fun of Kylo’s destructive mood swings (especially since Kylo get’s upset with him over the comment).

DZ-330 said:

Better yet, just remove the helmet vision from the restructure and have it be the Rey only vision that someone here mocked up. Can’t remember who that was 😦

I believe that’s Dominic Cobb’s, which has been brought up a few times. He didn’t remove Kylo’s vision entirely, but instead separated Rey and Kylo’s visions and redid them both so Kylo’s vision now transitions into the rebuilding of his helmet to give us a better understanding of his motivations. The vision itself still needed a little work last I saw it (it’s a bit too lengthy and clearly a TLJ clipshow) but it’s by far the best use of the vision I’ve seen, as Kylo’s helmet really needs a justification in this movie. The alternate suggestion of using Kylo’s helmet vision to send him to Mustafar just isn’t as strong to me personally.

Movies Remastered said:

I’m not sure if anyone has seen my “Kylo Board meeting” video but I feel the Mustafa scene fits in perfectly after Kylo saying “We’re going hunting…” I’ve just finished that scene and it is F***ing amazing!

Do you have a link to a completed version? I saw your editing videos on Youtube, but I’d like to see what it looks like as a continuous scene with transitions in and out.

Maybe we don’t need to remove the traffic? George Lucas certainly didn’t think traffic would stop just because of a gigantic battle overhead. The only time the surface of Coruscant ever looks remotely bothered by war in the prequels is when the temple is attacked by their own army.

Since the current problem with Mustafar is now looking like “too many” options rather than “not enough,” how far do we want to pursue the other currently unaddressed items on the list?

Unless I’ve missed something (very possible), these were the things that no one was really working on and that hadn’t been abandoned yet:

• Establishing shot of Coruscant from space during the conference room scene
• Extend the squeaky wheel scene (EDIT: is that what Chase just posted from LILIAN02230? That looks good to me)
• Possibly some line from 3PO when his mind is restored to hint at his prequel memories
• Replace Kylo’s TIE on Exogol when he arrives to help Rey
• More civilian fleet lines
• Star Destroyer destroyed over Coruscant for the ending montage

I saw someone somewhere suggest Kijimi as a end montage location as well, but looking through the movie footage I’m not sure there’s a single good shot of Kijimi’s skies that could easily be recognized as Kijimi.

Hal 9000 said:

Oh my God.

I just had a terrible thought.

Palpatine in TROS is about Trump. Evil came back up from nowhere but don’t worry because “there are more of us.”

“When the New Republic sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending Imperials. They’re not sending Sith. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing spice. They’re bringing Jedi teachings. They’re traitors. And some, I assume, are good people.”

kewlfish said:

one good thing is that it would take out the shots of the Wayfinder being hooked to the ship like it’s the flux capacitor from the daloreon. Maybe implying that only a force user can use a Wayfinder to find Exegol

That’s one thing I certainly wouldn’t mind. Having read the leaks before the movie came out, it baffled me on my first viewing that the “small pyramid-shaped Sith relic that leads to an secret ancient planet of evil” wasn’t a Sith Holocron, but was instead just some little computer.

kewlfish said:

this is starting to make my head hurt

Same lol. Maybe we should focus on a different part of the movie that still needs work and wait for Hal to weigh in on Mustafar.

DominicCobb said:

Exegol is supposed to be a new, unknown factor for both parties. If Kylo just waltzes up at the start of the movie it raises all sorts of new confusions.

A problem with that is that Kylo still gets there within almost the first minute of the movie either way, and Mustafar answers almost no questions at all for the audience. It tells us where Kylo’s wayfinder was before he found it, but it doesn’t tell us why he knew to look for it on Mustafar in the first place, or why he knew to look for it at all.

I think the briefest possible way to condense this is, as some other people have done before, have the title crawl refer to Kylo searching for “the source of his master’s power” or something to that effect. If we tie Exogol to Snoke implicitly, before Palpatine even gives the “I made Snoke” line, then we can infer that Kylo, as Snoke’s apprentice, had a means to reach the planet that the heroes do not, while still not being entirely certain of what awaits him there.

The fact a year has passed since TLJ, and that Kylo didn’t just go there immediately after Snoke’s death, also leaves a vague enough hint that this place isn’t easy to reach even if you know where it is.

Broom Kid said:

I feel like if you went straight from the crawl to this shot and you showed it to someone who hadn’t yet seen Rise of Skywalker, they’d have no idea there was a whole weird disjointed sequence that preceded it, and they wouldn’t be at a loss or adrift for what happens in the following sequence on Exegol, either. Mustafar is more or less extraneous as it is in the finished film.

Agreed. Mustafar is a cool bit of lore and violence, but I’m not sure its theatrical inclusion makes the movie any better simply as a movie, and as impressive as the additions by this thread have been so far, I feel they’re ultimately just going toward making an unnecessary and hard-to-follow sequence last longer, when what it really needs is more depth and purpose (which only some really nice deleted scenes could potentially accomplish).

Assuming it is cut, however, I’m not sure exactly where to start. I do get Dominic’s thoughts about the purpose of the nebula scene, but I also like the ominous nature of Kylo’s ship just appearing. This decision’s a bit harder to judge from a hypothetical first-time-viewer perspective, I think.