I did change the transition, but I actually like the older one more. Weirdly, this one is longer but it does feel quicker.
The only one that stood out to me was hearing the Across the Stars motif during Leia’s rescue. I know the idea is probably because she is Anakin and Padmé’s kid, but I’ve just always associated the song with romance, so it doesn’t really work for me there. Could Leia’s motif potentially fit there instead?
I was thinking the same thing, actually. I was going for a “This is Anakin and Padme’s daughter” kind of emotion, but the scene doesn’t really pause for us to take in Leia from Obi-Wan’s POV like that. And yeah, it is quite romantic which is odd here. Was inevitably going to be removed. I think I wanted to save Leia’s theme for later.
The first half of the cue in that moment is from when Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan save Padme on Naboo, I just faded Across the Stars into it, so I could just easily let that play out instead. It works in a similar way, I suppose. (Let me tell you, turning full tracks into appropriately timed incidence is a whole other thing that might be harder for me than the foley.)
I wonder if it would be possible to imply that more time has passed when we see Ben meditating on the ship, and not that he got an alert that Leia was in danger as soon as he was off world. Perhaps fading out as he walks toward the ship rather than a hard cut could help suggest that. And/or potentially a shot of a transport ship flying through space? Or maybe a brand new shot to show he is chilling in a warehouse on some totally different planet. Just something to show that a little time has passed.
Been working on that but shots from other media or are recognizable to me have been taking me out of it. I’ve got some options for good nondescript nebulas and planet footage, but then it feels odd to suggest Obi-Wan took a shuttle to just… float in space? I’ll try to post a clip later, but at least for leaving Tatooine, the fade out does a little better IMO.
Short of doing a “# Days/Weeks Later…” subtitle, I can accept Obi-Wan got the vision pretty soon after leaving Tatooine anyway. It’s not like in the original show, Reva didn’t put her plan into action to catch Obi-Wan the same few days she was on the same planet as him.
I think the overall structure is working well so far. A part of me does wonder if I miss a bit more of Leia’s introduction, but I may be biased a little bit. I did realize you run into a question of why the kidnappers set up a dummy hostage, if there plan was no longer to capture her rescuer, but maybe that was just a safety measure they take with all of their hostages? I personally think the muffled Leia line works by the way.
I miss it a bit too, especially no Bail, but with the project as a tonal exercise, the whimsical Alderaan stuff was a real pain to try and make fit. The material deserved to be presented in all its whimsy anyway, if it was going to be. I think Leia’s endearing disposition as a contrast is going to work later in the cut, but not this early on where I’m trying to set the tone.
I also wonder if it is fine that Obi and Bail have no contact after he senses Leia in danger. Like, could you potentially have voiceover of Bail as Obi-Wan arrives at Daiyu, implying they communicated after Obi-Wan sensed Leia.
This was also something I played with and is trivially easy to implement as VO, but kind of felt at odds with the storytelling language I’m going for. I don’t know to articulate it atm, but I’d prefer to truncate the plot than I would what should be an important character interaction. I’d rather it not be tackled than given a handwave
Besides, there was an element in the old EU I remember liking where Obi-Wan was so off the grid that he had to go to internet cafes or something to keep up with the galaxy’s goings on. The idea that he had something to even be communicated with, was already kind of a shock to my expectations. Obi-Wan going on his own accord I think sells his commitment to the children a lot also. I kind of like that.
Here’s another pass through from the Toy to Departure.
I re cut the Inquisitor scene, maybe it’ll feel a little better this time - removed the saloon BG music, used more silence and howling winds, and tried a different song/transition at the end.
Removed the shot of Nari tied to the arch to imply more gruesomeness
Removed the sun in the binoculars shot
Used the fade out as Obi-Wan leaves Tatooine and tried out a [flipped] shot from BOBF to imply more time passage
The tragedy of this edit is that it was finished at one point but then I got too ambitious and made like five or six choices I want to take back. I would go back and fix them now, but I don’t have a lot of the old source files any more, which makes navigating the already nightmarishly disorganized project a living hell.
I can probably edit the last export and just replace the parts I want to change, but I haven’t found the motivation to do that, especially since it caps the project going forward at 720p. If I wanted to continue this at all, I would have liked the eventual endpoint to be 1080p, submittable to FE and all, you know? i also don’t like the color grading any more
oh btw i am sending it to people still, if it looks like im ignoring everyone in this thread i just use PMs
Yeah, definitely have some cleaning to do, just wanted to get the structure into place here and receive some feedback before going forward. Every decision I make for this is accompanied with some considerable time rebuilding the sound design of a short minute, so I figured I didn’t have to have everything polished if I’m just testing iterations. you can tell when it starts falling off lmao
Which, I did have the Jawa scene in the edit a day ago actually. I go back and forth on it honestly. While I see its value in verbalizing some of Obi-Wan’s feelings about the Jedi’s “extinction” - I’ve really been going for a sparse, minimalist atmosphere and these things are communicated later [and] visually anyway. It’s really just a tone thing. I wanted Obi-Wan’s opening grief to carry into the next few scenes to tie it all together, and I felt a somewhat humorous interaction sandwiched between the relevant bits broke with it a little. 🤷
As far as the Leia line, I agree. I did make an effort to use that line muffled behind the door right before he walks in, but I do think I should have more specific sound clips from the excised Alderaan stuff in that Force Vision to better establish the situation.
EDIT: Took down the preview to revise a bit more
Thanks for the notes, but tbh all of the choices are very intentional. I don’t know if I know how to articulate it, but it’s an intuitive style thing. For example, I wanted the intro to feel sparse, particularly at the beginning, not fast or intense. The flashbacks are meant to be jarring and what triggers the pace increases. I think more overt color grading for flashbacks is tacky. The zoom is actually from the show itself, I can see about keeping it more fixed, but I don’t mind it and it serves to build anticipation towards revealing Obi-Wan’s face.
I’m not really trying to make it Star Warsy fwiw, the promise of these shows for me and the intention of my own edit was that it could do more than just be along the lines of a swashbuckling adventure serial. There’s only so much I can do of course, but my sensibilities are for as measured a pace as I can.
Yeah, I changed Obi-Wan’s reason for leaving Tatooine into just, literally taking Owen’s words to heart. “Leave us alone, Ben.” and he does. It’s already text that Obi-Wan can’t even disagree Anakin’s “death” is his fault, so I leaned into it.
I ended up keeping a bit of the Inquisitor and runaway stuff as the driving force in the decision. Obi-Wan sees The Inquisitors kill Nari after being told off by Owen and from there, Obi-Wan decides his presence is dangerous. That he’s dangerous. So he leaves. (not enthusiastically mind you)
I feel it’s actually a pretty clean starting place for a story that ultimately culminates in Obi-Wan learning to move on from his guilt and regain a sense of purpose.
Here’s how I was roughly planning on streamlining the kidnapping plot’s introduction in my edit.
The idea is that Obi-Wan feels a disturbance in the Force related to Leia while trying (and failing) to contact Qui-Gon.
It’s very very specific to how I’m approaching the Tatooine portion, I’ll get into it in my thread, but for the most part I don’t think we need any of the Alderaan stuff in full if we can help it.
Some of it is nice, but I don’t think a lot of it is necessary from a character perspective. (which is my focus) We can learn a lot about Leia more organically through her interactions with Ben later in the series.
I don’t think this approach is polished/perfect yet or if I’ll even follow through on it, but I like this for how it mitigates a good bit of the POV jumping, keeping us centered on the titular character for most of the [series-turned-] movie. We lose a neat moment with the intercutting Vader suit-up, but it was entirely redundant anyway.
The biggest loss I think is having Obi-Wan not completely cut off from the Force. Him saving Leia on Daiyu later in this context would just be him as rusty and weak. Which is fine I guess, it’s not like that’s not along the lines of how we understood Obi-Wan before, but I liked that moment in the show as it was.
anyway, I want to try to lean less on this device going forward
I have more to explain about it but I’ll save it for my thread
TLWR: A TV-to-movie edit of Obi-Wan Kenobi (2022) that is more tonally consistent, utilizing storytelling sensibilities unrestrained from Star Wars’ typical conventions, more in line with a grounded character drama.
Obi-Wan Kenobi as “prestige television” and not a mass appeal Disney+ blockbuster.
SO.
People liked my opening mock-up.
Basically, I liked the creative team behind this show a lot prior to release (Chow did “Something Stupid” from Better Call Saul, Kelley Dixon is/was a Breaking Bad/BCS editor, Oldboy’s Chung-hoon Chung on cinematography). I was expecting something comparable in caliber for Obi-Wan. At the very least, I would see some of that DNA peeking through.
A bit misguided in hindsight, what can I say?
So, I cut together that opening, approaching it through the storytelling language inspired by the best of Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul montages, as a way to creatively articulate what I really expected for this show based on the team behind it. What I wanted.
With some support, I figure I can give the rest of the series a shot.
I’ll post any updates and brainstorming in this thread as I go along, and explain some of sensibilities for this. I’m not trying to make it some kind of BB-verse styled edit, but I think taking lessons from its storytelling is how I’m going to make the most out of the material. I do think Chow’s sensibilities as a director, at least for the character stuff, has been conducive to being arranged in this way. It’s a terrible name, I know - worse than “New Canon Cut” which was already so bad - but part of me wants to give her some credit I know many fans won’t.
Anyway, as far as some goals:
Still very tentative, still very experimental.
I just think it’d be fun to work through this with some of you, just don’t expect much haha. It wouldn’t be an NFBisms edit if it wasn’t needlessly ambitious and inevitably too specific to appeal to anyone
Will edit this post with a cut list and more information once it starts taking shape.
DISCLAIMER: I do not claim to know or understand what Deborah Chow was trying to do with this show, nor do I think what I’m doing here is some kind of “fabled original plan”. Nor do I have any sort of handle on her personal style.
- Yes, I like NSFBisms remake of the opening a lot, and would have no issue in using it. But I would most likely only use the opening, because it breaks with the tone and the flow with what follows. It is cut in such a, let’s say, intellectually rewarding way and at a swift pace - and without any music, that when followed by the rest of the film it’s like this very intriguing, dark, lonely tone that is set and then all of a sudden it’s cut like a generic Star Wars series/film.
Yeah, I really just made it as an experiment, a little peek into what I would have wanted out of this show, but I didn’t map out how the rest of a hypothetical edit would follow. It’s actually been incredibly difficult even trying to break what the next tonally consistent minute would be lol
Not just that, there are a lot of shots I re-utilized out of their actual context. I completely made up the whole progression with his sizzling pot for example, which uses some shots from when the Organas call him.
I’m trying to find a way to make something work with it, but I’d recommend against it if it’s outside the scope of your edit tbh.
hey thanks guys ^^
Idk, I might just do a whole edit with this approach now actually. I don’t know how far I could take it given what the show becomes, but if I can make some progress that works for me past the first episode this week, you might see a thread pop up here. 👀
This is something I put together in the other Kenobi redux thread, just in case it could be relevant to this project in some way:
I was one of those suckers who was actually really excited for Obi-Wan Kenobi (2022) because Deborah Chow and Kelley DIxon’s work on Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad fuckin’ rule. Needless to say, that was a bit misguided.
I don’t think I’m going to do the whole show, but it was just a fun little experiment. The edit isn’t supposed to be like BB/BCS fwiw, just approaching the material with some of the storytelling philosophy I learned from them.
At the very least, Deborah Chow’s sensibilities as a director were still conducive to being arranged in this way so at least some of my excitement wasn’t unfounded
I was one of those suckers who was actually really excited for Obi-Wan Kenobi (2022) because Deborah Chow and Kelley DIxon’s work on Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad fuckin’ rule. Needless to say, that was a bit misguided.
I don’t think I’m going to do the whole show, but it was just a fun little experiment. The edit isn’t supposed to be like BB/BCS fwiw, just approaching the material with some of the storytelling philosophy I learned from them.
At the very least, Deborah Chow’s sensibilities as a director were still conducive to being arranged in this way so at least some of my excitement wasn’t unfounded
Alright, this episode lost me.
I’m so bored by action sequences longer than three minutes unless 1) they’re rooted in stunt choreography as craft or 2) building character, so this entire episode just washed over me. There were like no stakes. Everything they’ve ever been good at with this show before, wasn’t in here.
If you had been set to write an Obi show and had gone back and refreshed yourself on the canon - scenes and dialogue made in both PT and OT - would you have written Obi as unaware?
I mean, I definitely would. When the realization that he didn’t actually kill the brother he loved happened offscreen from the movies, writing that as its own story is a no brainer. It’s extremely fertile ground for emotional character work, I don’t see why any writer would reject that opportunity. Regardless of how you think it was done, the concept is more than sound.
I think it has less to do with the location and more to do with how it was shot. Like the shots of Obi and Vader actually clashing felt almost fan-filmy. Hard to put my finger on it.
I do agree with the character stuff though.
I think it’s the location + the lightsabers. They’re literally just facing off in an Earth quarry. And the way the red and blue light spills illuminate the scene and behave - the sabers actually look like the glowstick props they are.
I think some people who had set their hopes especially high are slowly realizing they may have put too much faith in Deborah Chow, I think if this show doesn’t pull it together in the end she’ll have the Star Wars stink on her that Rian had and people will unfairly judge her abilities after pinning their hopes on her up to release. Some fans forgot they were still dealing with Disney here, the director is the patsy to blame for the studio’s continued failures.
(Glad for any of you enjoying the series so far though.)
it’s me, i’m some people
There are things I really like, but it’s honestly just a bunch of small things that Star Wars doesn’t usually do (but is in other stuff normally.)
The franchise as a whole is kind of emotionally stunted so I like that Obi-Wan Kenobi does have an EQ. It’s where Chow excels as a director IMO. There’s just so much cheapness in the surrounding elements that it doesn’t feel as good as any of it should. The action is kinda slow, the world doesn’t feel that imaginative, the villains are hard to take seriously.
I don’t really mind that much - The Expanse is the “Canadian shot Sy-Fy show” people are literally comparing this to, and I love The Expanse - but Star Wars/Obi-Wan maybe deserved more than that. It’s frustrating because SW is a massive franchise and Disney is a massive corporation.
If there were going to be these restraints, this team would have excelled at something far less rooted in action, and something more dialogue-driven. For example, I was disappointed when they reached the checkpoint because it cut off Obi-Wan’s interesting recollection of his early life, for a frankly underwhelming sequence. Even Reva’s subtle expressions and allusion to her origin/ambitons are far more compelling than Vader pursuing Kenobi.
Anjohan said:
They should watch all seasons of Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad, analyze it and realize how good, female characters are written. Even for short appearances.
Ironically, Deborah Chow and Kelley Dixon are BB/BCS alum. The director and editor both contributed to those shows haha
Idk, it doesn’t seem like that that much of a stretch for Vader’s reputation to grow in political/Inner Rim circles, while being completely irrelevant to the day to day on a backwater planet without any consistent Imperial presence.
Ben is specifically keeping out of The Fight and to himself too. I think it makes a lot of sense and works towards establishing just how much he’s isolated himself. If it’s contrived, I don’t mind it. It’s small detail that says so much more about the character than the alternative IMO
Obi-Wan realizing Anakin is alive is also one of the only emotional beats that would have made this show worth making anyway, do we really want that to have just happened off screen?
I’m very excited for edits of this and to take a crack at it myself. So far, I’d just tone down the Inquisitors/Mercenaries. Cutting the Leia chase, some of Flea, and a bit of the exposition about the Inquisitors and their methods.
I actually think her performance directing and emotional blocking was the strongest part of all this, if anything. I think her weaknesses are related to the Volume and where she is in that technology curve. (And certainly not the pioneer Favreau is in that regard).
Budget constraints and the less-than-stellar script certainly don’t help but her character work has always been strong.
Alright, after having slept on it more, here are more of my thoughts…
Things I liked:
Things bad:
Anyway, everyone who wasn’t excited about this was right to be so, this just about met (and a little less) my generous expectations. I’m just happy to see stuff like this with a character I like.
I’ve been so burned by Star Wars stuff recently that I’m just happy for a Star Wars show that is approaching its story in the way that it is.
It may not be the plot or production value I would have expected or even wanted, but its measured storytelling and solid character work is all I’ve been asking for from this franchise. I like that the drama and action is derived from intersecting character motivations (and they feel like characters, not templates!), I like that Kenobi’s psychology serves as the personal, thematic throughline. It’s more engaging than the pulpy, trope-driven Favreau shows and more emotionally interested than Filoni’s fables.
It’s just good TV, perhaps in a cultural moment with an abundance of great TV, but it’s solid work.
And this is Star Wars. It’s Obi-Wan! I care more than I’d often admit, but I do enjoy these actors and this “lore” enough that competent work within it makes me happy.
The Inquisitors were definitely the hardest part to get onboard with, but The Third Sister is compelling enough by the end of those two episodes. You really get a feel for why she is the way she is, and they haven’t even explained it yet. It’ll be interesting to see her aggressive campaign cross over with the Vader/Kenobi feud. She’s out of her depth there, and not [just in] her skills and ambition.
I wouldn’t have had Leia in this show at all, but she was fun here. I enjoyed seeing Obi-Wan connect with her a bit, and it makes all the sense for her to be the only thing to draw him out. I kinda wished Obi-Wan had been more reminded of Anakin with Leia, rather than Padme. Leia’s snarky, fiery spirit feels more like her father’s thing. Luke if anyone was more like Padme between the two.
All of Dave Filoni’s shows are decent but overrated at best (ATLA/TCW) but mostly kinda bad. The Mandalorian is his best show, but it seems that it was good in spite of him. The two episodes he directed were the worst two.
what is this ATLA slander