Moth3r

If you have harmy's despecialized v2.1 AVCHD, I can confirm this plays in 24p on my ps3 & samsung tv.

Yes my PS3 will play AVCHD discs at 24p, don't think I had to change anything to get it to work, everything at default.

I used FFMS2 on the original MKV; DGAVCIndex on the demuxed h.264 stream.

The problematic stream was the Usenet release sourced from the uncensored French HDTV broadcast. Not interlaced, 25fps progressive.

I knew about DGindexNV but I don't have an Nvidia card, hadn't come across DGAVCDecDI before - thanks for that.

marvins said:

Moth3r said:

 Apparently, an article about dubbing the new scenes in the SE was printed in 1997 in "Les Années Laser", a French magazine about home cinema.

There was a history of "who dubbed what and how" and also an interesting statement about the sound of the French LDs being plain stereo and not Dolby Surround because the original 1977 French mix for the movie was only a 2-channel stereo mix due to limitations of French theaters at the time. (Same statement appears on the lddb listing here).

 

Do you have more information about this article and when it was release ? Are you sure it was in "les années laser" ?

Because I'm searching this article but didn't find it.

I'm not sure. Someone at lddb told me about this magazine some time ago.

An ideal editor would be one that only re-encodes between GOP boundaries and leaves the remainder of the stream untouched. Apparently VideoReDo TVSuite H.264 can do this, but I've never used it.

With AviSynth, I have had problems with reading h.264, specifically with the frame accuracy of source filters. FFMPEGSource2 gives me dupe frames on some streams, DGAVDec is very slow, more accurate but still serves the wrong frames sometimes (and is no longer supported by its author).

Harmy said:

Yeah, it's not there on the v2.0 MKV, so it should be fine on the BD as well :-)

You can actually see it in the v2.0 MKV, although the blocks are smaller.

Suggests it might be that way on the original BD, and your colour correction just made it more visible?

I've now watched v2.1.

Wonderful.

I know it's only a recreation, and not strictly the authentic original, but when it looks this good who cares?

The only issue I noticed were some minor "chequerboarding" compression artefacts in the death star control room (in the darker reds, above this guy's hand).

It shows up more on my TV than on the PC's display, but hopefully the higher bitrate on the BD will take care of it.

Some of the things you can buy now that Disney owns Star Wars:

Full article here: http://www.geekosystem.com/disney-star-wars-merch/#0

Microswitches are not analogue - they're either on or off. More reliable than traditional leaf switches or contact pads. 

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Doctor-Ms-berGuide-for-Full-PAL-to-NTSC-DVD-Conversion-v20/topic/10111/

The early Japanese laserdisc of The Evil Dead is a bit of a mystery. Why is it so dark and blue? I doubt the original prints were like this.

Although, some people prefer this look to the warmer look of the DVDs and BD. http://www.bookofthedead.ws/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17

You're welcome?

About 146 results

According to Anthony Daniels, the tractor beam line was recorded long after filming had finished, on his own in a broom cupboard in London. The resulting tape was biked to the airport so the line could be inserted into the movie.

http://www.anthonydaniels.com/journalism/wc/wc3/index.html

Here's a sample in motion:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/w1x5yu

Questions:

1. Can anyone improve on this method? I've found using ffmpegsource I get duplicate frames, and AVCsource decodes extremely slowly on this ancient PC (I get about 4fps). Plus I don't always seem to get frame accurate output.

2. Anyone up for watching the entire film this way and looking out for black or white flashes? ;-)

Which frames? How do you know that there aren't any additional "Easter eggs" that are yet to be discovered/documented?

So I devised an Avisynth script that takes the French video, colour-matches it to the Blu-ray and attempts to align the two sources spatially by using simple manual crop & resize. The script then "subtracts" one from the other.

If the two videos were identical to one another, they would cancel each other out and you'd be left with a totally grey screen. However, because the BD is sharper than the HDTV source, and the edges aren't exactly aligned, you end up with a ghostly image of the original:

Where there are significant differences between the two, you end up with black or white artefacts. For example, the dirt spot and the hair on this frame in the HDTV source

Do not appear on the BD, so you get this:

This is also true of places where the animation has been redrawn, thus:

I understand that the French voice actors who dubbed Star Wars were quite famous actors in their own right. Apparently, an article about dubbing the new scenes in the SE was printed in 1997 in "Les Années Laser", a French magazine about home cinema.

There was a history of "who dubbed what and how" and also an interesting statement about the sound of the French LDs being plain stereo and not Dolby Surround because the original 1977 French mix for the movie was only a 2-channel stereo mix due to limitations of French theaters at the time. (Same statement appears on the lddb listing here).

I had a trawl through some old Usenet posts on Google Groups to see if there was any mention of the 1985 mix. Nothing turned up - it seems that was very little knowledge back then about the fact that there were three mixes, and people even then were debating about the Biggs scenes and the grappling hook miss!

I did find one interesting fact, though - in 1990, Star Wars was shown on the Disney channel with the tractor beam line included. Would this be the mono mix or the 1985 stereo mix?

It would make sense though - instead of a new remix, the 1985 release had its audio digitally remastered from an existing mix.

Then again this David C. Fein seems to have credentials (despite the inaccuracies about the ISR laserdisc) - it looks like he now works with Michael Matessino (the guy who gave us the list of ESP 70mm print differences) at a DVD production company called Sharpline Arts.

More suggestions, this time regarding: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/russdawson/mono/

The "play" buttons don't show up in Chrome, at least not for me anyway. They work OK in MSIE 8.

And it would be nice if the samples could be updated to use the restored mono mix, I think the samples there at the moment were taken from the old P&S bootleg.

Introduction

Most Star Wars fans are aware that there are certain audio differences between the different versions of the original movie. In fact, there are actually six different sound mixes for the original Star Wars (another three if you include the mixes for the Theatrical Special Editions in 1997, the DVD in 2004 and the Blu-ray in 2011.) This article explains the background behind the various mixes and details the key differences between them.

History of the various sound mixes

Theatrical releases

After shooting, the sound editing team began by preparing pre-mixes know as “stems” (typically: music, dialogue, FX-A, FX-B and foley). These stems served as the basis for the initial theatrical showings of the film, on both the 35mm format with Dolby Stereo (4 channels matrix-encoded into two optical tracks), and the deluxe 70mm prints, which featured the Dolby “baby boom” audio on 6 discrete magnetic tracks.

It is clear that Ben Burtt and his sound crew scrambled to create the initial two sound mixes in the weeks leading up to the film’s premiere. During post-production, sound mixer Derek Ball was sent to Shelagh Fraser’s house to record replacement dialogue for Beru Lars. Also, according to Anthony Daniels, C3PO’s tractor beam line was recorded long after filming had finished, on his own in a broom cupboard in London. The recorded tape was biked to the airport so the line could be inserted into the movie ref - although perhaps it arrived too late as the line did not appear on the initial mixes. Star Wars Year by Year : A Visual History states that the line was first included in the July 1978 theatrical re-release.

At the time the original Dolby Stereo mix was created, it was envisaged that this would be a single inventory release for all domestic theaters. As this was a relatively new idea, the Dolby Stereo mix reflected a somewhat cautious and conservative approach to properties such as dynamic range, width of stereo image and low frequency content - the concern being that the majority of houses at the time were equipped with generally low quality mono sound systems, and there was little confidence that those that did have the facility for stereo reproduction were set up properly.

The 70mm “Baby Boom” format used the same 70mm format as Todd-AO with some slight modifications.  There were three speakers behind the screen designated left, center, and right. There was also one surround channel and two low frequency effects channels that accepted frequencies below 200 Hz. This format, with discrete channels, greater clarity and dynamic range characteristics, and bass extension, obviously offered more options for the mixers to draw on.

There was also a mix created for the 35mm four-track magnetic Stereo format, destined for international prints. Very little information is available regarding the properties or content of this third mix.

After completing the multi-channel versions for the first prints, the sound editors created yet another mix, a single-channel monaural track. This mix was to be included on prints destined for theatres not equipped with stereo sound systems, and for ancillary markets. While the mono mix could have been created from the Dolby Stereo master by “folding” the tracks into one, instead the team decided to create a new dedicated mono mix from scratch.

At the time, the extended life of a film was played out through television broadcasts. It was thought that long after the film had disappeared from the big screen, this was how it would be remembered, and it seemed logical to refine the mix to this end for archival concerns. Thus, the editors took the opportunity to revise and enhance selected portions of the soundtrack. Sound designer Ben Burtt recalls: “Because we were always trying to make the film better and better and fix things that were not right, there was some ‘sweetening’ done; things like different Stormtrooper or C-3PO lines, additional sound effects, or some different ADR.” ref

Some members of the production felt the mono mix represented the definitive soundtrack of the movie (not in terms of a sonic experience but, rather, in terms of audio content), and felt that the multi-channel versions were a novelty that only select audiences would be treated to during a brief theatrical run. “George put a lot of effort in that mono mix,” Burtt remembers, “and he even said several times, ‘Well, this is the real mix. This is the definitive mix of the film.’ He paid more attention to it because he felt it was more important archivally.” ref

Official home video releases

The early home video releases on VHS and laserdisc (also more obscure formats such as Betamax, CED and VHD) featured the Dolby Stereo mix, identical to that heard on the 35mm theatrical prints. The superior source being the Japanese pan & scan laserdisc released in 1991, which contains uncompressed digital stereo audio. Playing the mix through a home Dolby Pro-logic decoder authentically recreates the original 4-channel surround experience.

In 1985, when Fox decided to re-release Star Wars on video with a digitally remastered audio track, sound designer Ben Burtt asked to be involved. What Burtt actually ended up doing was creating an entirely new sound mix for the film - so the audio for the 1985 video release is actually the fifth official Star Wars audio mix. It’s possible that the 1977 35mm magnetic 4-track master was used as the source for this new mix. Among the clean up and digital repairs, some interesting new changes were added. These include sweetened sound effects, new stereo’d effects and the addition of C-3PO’s line in the Death Star. This new sound mix was used for every subsequent video release until 1993.

Ref: http://web.archive.org/web/20070930210931/http://www.davisdvd.com/misc/starwars/ep4.htm

The sixth mix, digitally remastered by Ben Burtt and Gary Summers, was created for the THX-certified Definitive Collection laserdisc boxed set released in 1993. Supposedly a mix of  the best elements of all three original mixes (ref), a critical comparison reveals it is primarily a fold-down of the 6-track 70mm mix, with some mono mix elements and additional effects “dialled in”. An interview with Dave Schnuelle, then with the THX LaserDisc Program, corroborates these observations. ref

The original theatrical version on the 2006 DVD release bonus disc also sports this 1993 mix.

Fan-made Releases

The original mono mix and 70mm mixes have never been released on home video (the 1985 home video mix may be equivalent to the 35mm 4-track mix).

A fan project to restore the original mono mix (as sourced from various recordings of TV broadcasts), lead by an originaltrilogy.com member named Belbucus, was completed in 2007. The project thread can be found here.

The only references available for the 70mm mix were “in-theatre” recordings made by fans with portable cassette recorders. A comparison of one of these recordings against the 1993 mix can be viewed here. A fan project to recreate the 70mm mix was completed by a member called hairy_hen; details can be found here.

These fan-made audio tracks have subsequently been used in several restoration projects, including Harmy’s “de-specialized edition”.

Comparison of the different mixes

General characteristics

• The original Dolby Stereo mix has narrow stereo imaging (soundstage), and a low dynamic range (volume difference between quiet and loud sounds).
• The 6-track mix has considerably more dynamic range, a much wider stereo image, and a significantly “weightier” presence overall.
• The original Academy mono also has a low dynamic range (obviously no stereo imaging).
• The 1985 remix has a wider soundstage, but still a low dynamic range.
• The 1993 remix has both a wide soundstage and a high dynamic range.

Specific content differences

(compared to the initial 35mm Dolby Stereo mix)

Original 70mm 6-track mix

In terms of content, the 6-track is almost identical to the Dolby Stereo mix, because the two mixes were both mastered from the same stems. There are however a few spots where the effects mix differs noticeably, mostly to bolster the impact of loud sections in the main channels as well as the boom track.

• At the points where the blockade runner hits the screen, and where the escape pod is launched, there are additional sound effects in the centre (and boom) channel(s) offering a sharper attack and heavily pronounced bass.
• When Han takes out Vader’s first wingman in the trench, the explosion sound is completely different - a deep explosion that emanates primarily from the left and boom channels.

These differences can also be heard in the 1993 remix, and were not part of Burtt’s additions at the time.

Original mono mix

There are a multitude of minor content differences in the mono mix. Some are listed below; you can also listen to the changes on YouTube here: https://youtu.be/aeXpcYcZNDw

• The alarm on board the rebel blockade runner makes a different sound.
• Most of Aunt Beru’s lines are different takes (see the discussion here).
• Chewie has several extra growls in the mono mix that are not heard in the Dolby Stereo mix.
• When Luke and Ben come across the slaughtered Jawas, R2-D2 beeps.
• As the group heads into the cantina, a cantina band musical cue can be heard.
• The cantina patron known on set as “Snake Head” (known later as Dice Ibegon) makes chirping sounds in the mono mix.
• When searching for the droids, the stormtrooper at Mos Eisley says: “Alright, check that side of the street. It’s secure. Move on to the next one.” Instead of: “Alright, check this side of the street. The door’s locked. Move on to the next one.”
• The chess monsters make more noise and sound more vicious.
• When the Falcon comes out of hyperspace there is a pronounced deceleration sound–a winding down sound effect.
• After Han says, “Chewie, jam its transmissions” a radio frequency type sound effect is heard when Chewie flips the switches.
• A different sound effect is heard when the Falcon is caught in the tractor beam.
• C-3PO’s tractor beam line is added. “The tractor beam is coupled to the main reactor in seven locations. A power loss at one of the terminals will allow the ship to leave.”
• The comlink communication to Tarkin is a different voice. An additional line is also present. “Governor Tarkin? We have an emergency alert in detention block AA-23.” Instead of: “We have an emergency alert in detention block AA-23.”
• When Chewie beats on the trash compactor door, a knocking sound is heard.
• When Luke is trying to contact C-3PO from the trash compactor, some of C-3PO’s lines are different takes. “What? Use the comlink? Oh my, I forgot, I turned it off.”
• The hard, repeating echo in the chasm is not heard. “I think we took a wrong turn… think we took a wrong turn…” etc.
• When Princess Leia fires the blaster in the chasm there is a distinct gunshot sound. Usually referred to as the “.44 magnum”.
• The “Close the blast doors!” line is added.
• More sound effects are heard as Luke charges up the gun turret on the Falcon.
• Luke’s line “So, you got your reward and you’re just leaving then?” is a different take.
• Porkins’ scream is not heard in the mono sound mix.
• The voice on the Death Star–“The rebel base will be in firing range in seven minutes.” etc.–is different.
• Luke says “Blast it, Wedge! Where are you?” instead of “Blast it, Biggs! Where are you?”
• Many transmissions heard over the speaker during the battle of Yavin are not synthesized, e.g. “Rendezvous at mark six point one.”

1985 remix

Content of the 1985 mix is very similar to the original Dolby Stereo mix.

There are some newly “stereo’d” effects (Jawa voices after Artoo’s capture) and, most noticeably, the addition of C-3PO’s line in the Death Star (“The tractor beam is coupled to the main reactor in seven locations. A power loss at one of the terminals will allow the ship to leave”).

1993 remix

Since this mix is primarily a fold-down of the original 70mm mix, its content is mostly similar, but there are numerous effects that were added during the mastering session:

• Additional explosion sounds have been added to the initial Tantive/Star Destoyer battle.
• A low rumble effect has been added before the imperial troops start to cut throught the Tantive door. †
• The laser blast that convinces 3PO to get into the escape pod now has an added impact noise.
• Additional electrical sparking sounds when the Jawas attach the restraining bolt to R2
• When Luke and Ben come across the slaughtered Jawas, R2-D2 beeps. †
• The cantina patron known on set as “Snake Head” (known later as Dice Ibegon) makes chirping sounds. †
• Chewbacca responds with a short growl when Han says “get back to the ship”. †
• When the Millenium Falcon exits hyperspace into the meteor shower, the sound of debris whizzing past the ship has been added.
• Sound of laserfire has been added when the imperial fighter flies past the Falcon.
• During the blaster fight in the detention block, additional laserfire and the sound of shattering glass has been added when the wall “cameras” are taken out.
• Additional laserfire effects have been added to the fight before our heroes escape down the garbage chute.
• A knocking sound has been added when Chewie beats on the trash compactor door. †
• The noise of water and a mechanical noise of the trash compactor has been added †
• Various additional laserfire effects added for imperial fighters and death star gun turrets in the final battle sequence.
• Additional explosion effect when R2 gets hit by Vader.

(† these additions can also be heard in the original mono mix.)

Regarding the sound mixes, I found an article on my hard drive that might be of interest. I'll post it in General Star Wars discussion.

There was a rumour that these split lightsabre shots were corrected on the Faces set, but then again I seem to recall someone proving that this was not the case.

timdiggerm said:

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

timdiggerm said:

Won't ROTP be our highest quality Sebastian-Shaw-ghost source, ...

Yikes, that's sad.

I mean, at present it's GOUT....

What about the TB or other versions of the '97 SE? The Hayden ghost was an '04 change, wasn't it?