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Moth3r

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26-Oct-2004
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16-Jul-2017
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Post
#86040
Topic
Info: What do you think of Lowry's work for the DVD release of the Indiana Jones Trilogy?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/86040/action/topic#86040
Time

Just wondered if anyone had any opinions on the 2003 DVD release of the Indiana Jones trilogy?(Thought about posting this in the “off topic” section, but I think it is more relevant in this section.)

I have the DVD set, not examined it in detail but I certainly had no complaints about the picture quality. And I’ve not seen any bad reviews on the 'net about these DVDs.

Lowry’s clean-up work on this film didn’t stop at removing dirt and scratches from the print, he went on to clean up dodgy special effects shots (e.g. removal of fringes caused by blue-screen photography, removal of the reflections in the safety glass in the Well of Souls).

Quote from The Indy Experience.com

… Lowry’s technicians take great care not to tamper with the content of the original image. “Rather than dealing with art, we tend to deal with science,” he says. “For example, we make very little, if any change to the contrast or color or things of that nature. We are not in the color-correction business, because that is an art. We can improve the overall quality of the picture, but generally speaking, we try to do it from a very scientific perspective. It is extremely important that we do everything we can not to impair what the director or cinematographer was trying to do in the first place.”

So why was the Star Wars DVD such a disaster? Why are some scenes so dark? Why are there so many problems with the colour timing as demonstrated by Mike Verta on his site?

Post
#85498
Topic
Idea &amp; Info Wanted: Dreaming of the <em>ultimate</em> LD transfer
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/85498/action/topic#85498
Time
Originally posted by: Laserman
It's pretty obvious here that some of you know almost nothing about how laserdisc works, and are assuming that it is like CD or DVD which is not the case. You need to get away from the 'digital' mindset, that the data is just read of the LD as some info which is then simply output ot PAL or NTSC. I've never cracked a LD player open, and even if I had I wouldn't know what I was looking at. However, I've never had the 'digital' mindset; I've always thought of an LD player as the video equivalent of a record player, in that a vinyl record, like LD, contains uncompressed analogue information. That simplistic analogy has been sufficient for me up until now, but I was requesting for further clarification from yourself or Karyudo as to the nature of the signal stored on the disc.

Originally posted by: Laserman
This is not how laserdisc works. I don't mean to sound mean, but suggestions without any knowledge or research are mostly wasted as the reality is so complex that the chance of 'stumbling' across a solution is almost infinitely small. I'd suggest anyone wanting to contribute to the Franken-X0 discussion do some reading and research offline first. Well this thread was never intended to offer a real solution, it was based on my "dreaming of..." or "wouldn't it be good if...". I had no idea that such a project was actually in the running! But modifying an existing X0 player to play PAL disc goes beyond even what I thought would be the "ultimate" transfer.

Originally posted by: Laserman
Some background will probably be helpful here.
Yes, that info is helpful, thank you.

Originally posted by: Laserman
d) Resolution. This is where it gets really interesting for us. In letterbox mode, NTSC discs have a vertical resolution of just 480 vs PAL 576 lins.

This may not seem a big deal, but when ou get down to letterbox, that leaves NTSC with a measly 272 lines of resolution! PAL by contrast has 327 available lines (obviously depending on the aspect ratio, but the above is pretty much what you get on Star Wars), so around 20% more. When the baseline is so low this can really make a difference - hence the interest in the PAL laserdiscs as a master.
On my PAL version of ANH it's 320 lines. On ESB and ROTJ, it's 324 lines.

However, the 20% increase is not always that clear cut, because telecine machines filter the fine horizontal detail to prevent flicker when displayed on an interlaced display. If the PAL discs were subject to the same level of filtering as the NTSC discs, then there would be no benefit from the extra resolution! I don't know if this is the case or not, and I don't have the NTSC discs to do a direct comparison.

EDIT - well, Karyudo has the resources to do a direct PAL/NTSC compare. I think it would be in our interests if he would be kind enough to make some screenshots for us.
Post
#85033
Topic
Idea &amp; Info Wanted: Dreaming of the <em>ultimate</em> LD transfer
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/85033/action/topic#85033
Time
DanielB, I actually do agree with your views. I want an OT transfer without any fixed sabre shots. I also dislike the change of Gollywogs to Goblins, the removal of the gruesome end to Peter Rabbit's father, and the "dumbing down" of Awdry's Railway Stories.

It's just a shame you have to be such an annoying twat.

Now, back on topic:
There's something I don't understand in this discussion about playing the PAL discs on the NTSC-only X0, maybe Laserman, Karyudo or someone else could clarify. The video on a laserdisc is stored as an analogue waveform, yes? The optical stuff in the player converts the undulations on the disc surface to an electrical composite video signal. Why does the player need to decode this signal (if it's not doing any processing)? Isn't it the display device or capture card that decodes the composite signal into RGB? From my simplistic point of view, if the disc itself is PAL or NTSC then the output signal will be the same format. Or does the player need to decode the signal to check the disc is playing at the correct speed, or something like that?
Post
#83849
Topic
Wanted: I'm looking for a PAL VCR...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/83849/action/topic#83849
Time
Nothing to stop you plugging a standard 4-way extension into a single converter, although I don't know what current the US outlets are fused at - in the UK it's 13 amps, so the total load must not exceed 13A x 240V = 3120W
Quote
Incidentally, I believe the difference between PAL and NTSC players is that in Europe our TVs display more lines of pixels, giving a clearer picture, or something like that...
Better picture definition, yes, but more flicker...
Post
#83841
Topic
Wanted: I'm looking for a PAL VCR...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/83841/action/topic#83841
Time
Note that for DVD players, "region-free" is not necessarily the same as "multi-format". Region coding is a separate thing to PAL/NTSC. This link may help.

Ritker did you get a PAL VCR? Have you thought it might might be easier/cheaper to send the tapes to someone in Europe to do the capture for you, or is the material too valuable to risk posting? I've been considering getting an SVHS model myself for some other capture projects, I'd be happy to do it for you once I've finished my LD cap.

DanielB the lighthouse thing is an extremely old story, didn't realise it appeared in a TV ad. It was funny first time it was emailed to me (about 10 years ago). Completely bogus, of course (Snopes).
Post
#83215
Topic
.: Moth3r's PAL DVD project :.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/83215/action/topic#83215
Time
Laserman:
You are right, apparantly Jason and the Argonauts PAL release had 30 seconds of test signal at the end.

There is also a service test disc you can get from Pioneer which is to used in conjunction with an oscilloscope - something I know Karyudo is looking into.

---

Anyway, on the progress front, I've just installed a new 80GB hard drive, so I can get started on this project for real now...
Post
#83214
Topic
***The &quot;official&quot; Screenshots feedback thread ***
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/83214/action/topic#83214
Time
I've updated my unofficial screenshot comparison page; some of the scenes are now different. I've ditched the "enlarged detail" option for now. All 6 shots from the DrGonzo and TR47 versions are in, 5 out of 6 of mine are in the cropped and resized category.

Zion any idea why the page doesn't work for you? What browser are you using? Is Javascript enabled? I'm only a beginner when it comes to coding scripts, so if anyone wants to take a look at the source, please tell me if I need to do something different for compatibility with other browsers.

Link
Post
#83203
Topic
.: The X0 Project Discussion Thread :. (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/83203/action/topic#83203
Time
Re: X0 vs 925

The results I am getting with my 925 are pretty comparable with Karyudo's - as you would expect.

The X0 certainly looks to p*ss all over the 925 wrt chroma artefacts/combing. However, I suspect there is something more than just the player. Laserman, didn't you say you were using a "broadcast-quality" capture system? What are you using Karyudo, a BT-878 card?

As I understand it, the 925 applies a comb filter to the composite signal from the disc, does a bunch of processing, and re-combines the signal for the composite output. It would be preferable to get an untouched composite signal and process it with "broadcast-quality" comb filters, which I assume is what is happening with the X0 captures?
Post
#83202
Topic
Idea &amp; Info Wanted: Dreaming of the <em>ultimate</em> LD transfer
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/83202/action/topic#83202
Time
Originally posted by: Laserman
The X0 is the step up from the X9 Silverwook. Better noise shielding in the electronics and a bunch of other enhancements, but single sided only. Gives a noticably better picture, but the X9 is still a dream machine!
Actually, the X9 was a step up from the X0 - the X9 had a more advanced comb filter built-in. But from what you say this may have been implemented at the expense of noise shielding or build quality (much the same as the PAL 925 has more features than the 2950, but some say the 2950 is still better for pic quality).
Post
#82940
Topic
Idea &amp; Info Wanted: Dreaming of the <em>ultimate</em> LD transfer
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/82940/action/topic#82940
Time
Originally posted by: Laserman
I am still holding out hope that the PAL discs will give us something even better, there is definately more detail, better colour and no 3:2 pulldown issues to deal with. Getting it back to 24fps is absolutely no problem. The real task is finding a working PAL laserdisc player of the X0 calibre....

AFAIK there was never a PAL player of that calibre. The top 2 PAL machines are the 2950 and the D925. Not much to choose between them, but I have heard the 2950 has a less noisy picture.

There are issues I've found with my 1995 French PAL discs - the image is cropped more than the NTSC versions, and there are small portions missing at the end of some sides. I don't know if the German or Spanish sets have the same problems.

The 1989 French releases were apparently poor quality pressings.
Post
#82578
Topic
Info Wanted: a Pre-ANH edit of Ep IV?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/82578/action/topic#82578
Time
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
...you can shuttle back and forth between two versions of the 70mm soundtrack...
???
AFAIK there was only ever one version of the original 70mm soundtrack, and I would be very surprised if the creators of this DVD were able to get their hands on an original 70mm print, extract the 6 tracks (which I believe were in "4.2" surround format) and remaster to 5.1 AC-3.

More likely the tracks are from the original Dolby Surround from the 35mm prints (used in the first laserdisc transfers), the digitally remastered mix from 1985 or the THX certified mix from the 1993. The latter two I think used parts of the 70mm 6-track mix.
Post
#82474
Topic
Idea &amp; Info Wanted: Dreaming of the <em>ultimate</em> LD transfer
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/82474/action/topic#82474
Time

Just fantasizing about how the ultimate LD transfer could be produced. Come on experts, what do you think?
 

Discs
LD enthusiasts reckon that discs pressed at Pioneer Japan are generally better quality than those from Pioneer USA, so would the best discs be the Japanese “faces” set?
 

Player
You want the one that has the highest quality disc transport, laser and pickup. Processing electronics unimportant as we want the untouched composite video output. Pioneer HLD-X0 anyone?
 

Time Base Corrector
Composite video fed into a standalone professional TBC unit to strip and rebuild the signal with perfect video timing. Who makes TBCs for the pro video market?
 

Comb Filter
The TB corrected signal is fed into a professional comb filter, which will split the signal into component video outputs. I assume that the 3D motion-adaptive type of comb filter is the best?
 

Capture Hardware
What kind of professional capture board has a component video input?
 

Post-processing
I’ll assume that you’ll want something better than avisynth and pixiedust?
 

Encoder
If you spend $-000s to buy CCE-Pro, I think it comes with a Pentium workstation and proprietary capture board included. Is CCE pro the best encoder, or are there better packages used by the studios for DVD production?