Monroville

Ripplin said:

Interesting to see the speeder transparency issue come back again. I know it will be a non-issue in the end, though. ;) I do wonder if Ady plans to do anything with the lifeless instrumentation in the cockpit, though. Wouldn't want to see too much, just a subtle blink here and there, maybe? A simple static graphic instead of blackness?

At the least put a targeting graphic ala the X-wings and the MF gunports and maybe a radar .

Something along these lines:


Hell, here's a better one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaskolmE944&NR=1

While the first SS shadow shot needs to be lower on the ground and flatter to match the AT-ATs shadow, the scene at 0:32 doesn't have a shadow for the SS at all!   On 0:35 -0:36, should there be a SS shadow on the AT-AT legs?  Also could use a mountainous background (and maybe a squad of SSs flying in the rear) for 0:50.

And as far as the transparent cockpit, it looks like Ady addressed this already: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjEnjYe2Dbg&feature=related

Okay, here is a good example of what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coypgsWo4Rg&feature=related
on 2:55. his fingers do a wobble when he is pointing up during his speech.  Granted, this doesn't happen a lot, so it will take some sharp eyes to look for.  Now I know he's 800 years old and all, but unless Yoda is supposed to be senile or something, I do not think this was intentional. 

And no, I'm not going to bring up the < ears > again.

doubleofive said:

Ripplin said:

B'oh! Yes, sorry about that. See, I already downloaded that, then placed it in a folder on my desktop called 'ESB Re extras.' What I watched was an older video called 'asteroid_chase_comparison' rather than the proper one. :p I'm going to watch it now.

That's why I added timestamps to the front of all of my videos.  Also helps so I can see the progress that has been made.  Here is my listing, for those curious:

2008-08-01 esb_1080p_test.mkv

Do you have a link for this one?  I'm really curious as to how this one looks.

Sevb32 said:

Are you going to have to isolate the cockpit itself (like with a still frame) to stop the transparency? Of course, there are shadows, so if the cockpit is a still frame the shadows and light would always stay the same, but there must be a way.

The good thing is that one could always use a "cloning" tool ala Adobe Photoshop, since the affected areas are the flat black and grey areas of the cockpit, as opposed to a more detailed full model or the like.  The main thing would be to paint out the laserbolts.  I probably wouldn't notice the AT-AT if the cockpit was darker like the SE shot.

Davnes007 said:

Monroville said:

DarthBo said:

The shadow of the snowspeeder makes no sense either btw.
It's in front of the walker, yet its shadow is behind it. 

If the sunlight is coming from a 45% angle, the shadow would make sense. 

Umm...no it woudn't. The shadow of the speeder should be near the bottom (of this particular frame), 'under' the shadow of the AT-AT...no matter what the angle of the sunlight is.

It could probably be fixed semi-easily.

You're right: even at 45%, with the snowspeeder UNDER the AT-AT, the AT-ATs body shadow would cover overtop any shadow the snowspeeder would produce.  I say either extend the AT-AT's shadow onto the snow dune the SS shadow is on, or lower the SS shadow onto the ground with the AT-AT shadow (so it would disappear whenever the SS shadow connected with the AT-AT shadow).  The SS shadow would also be flatter due to the angle of the sunlight.

Monroville said:

 

I think this would be preferred for both binoc shots, though I would change the red numbers on the top and bottom middle sections to be more readable - maybe change the left and right sides to be more legible too (the right side graph is obviously the range of the objects in question).

DarthBo said:

The shadow of the snowspeeder makes no sense either btw.
It's in front of the walker, yet its shadow is behind it. The tow cable's shadow is wrong as well. (it's more evident if you watch it in motion)

Not sure if you can fix it though, but you've surprised me before ^^

If the sunlight is coming from a 45% angle, the shadow would make sense.  Regardless, I would add the snowy feet to the subsequent AT-AT shots within this sequence.

In regards to the "Luke scratching the AT-AT's belly" scene, maybe you could take some of the 1080p AT-AT leg shots and mask them onto the leg gear on the lower left below Luke.  The 1080p shots should be more open to enlargement for such things (with maybe a dash of extra FX - details, shadows, etc - on the leg gears to seal the deal).



I take it this is the offending element?  If anything, it seems all it needs is the outer ring you see on the model leg (the ring above is flat and smooth, whereas below the inner ring is inset).  Also, going by the picture below, shouldn't there be another inner leg joint on the lower left in the pic above (of course, it would cover up Luke's lightsaber arm and the door, which is maybe why the shot is so off - there's a missing leg!)?



Never noticed the AT-ATs bowel problems, but it looks like it needs some serious proctology there (not that it matters, being that it just got blown apart).   Still, does the tube need to be connected to what looks like a rear door?

Ripplin said:

ImperialFighter said:

Aw man, really Monroville?  Personally, I always liked the overall colour/'movement' of the original Rebel trooper binocular graphic better than the plain original Luke binocular graphic.  I'd be sorry to see the effect either side go, and hope Adywan feels the same.

I wholeheartedly agree. It's supposed to be that way. If it was a sharp, uncluttered picture, people would think 'wow, look at those things!' But having it cluttered, blurry and 'distracting,' it's like 'what are those things?' Then you see them later and are awed. ;)

Plus, that reddish box gives it a bit more character.

I understand your points; I guess my thing is if you want to keep the red box and the green slider, add it to Luke's in the beginning to be consistent.  Then again, the whole "different setting" thing works too.

But what do I know?  I'm just a crazy guy in a santa suit...

ImperialFighter said:

irstly, can I say that while I wasn't quite sure about your change to the the AT-AT 'reveal' graphic at first, I've really come round to the look of it now, and realise that the consistency with the view from out of the identical Rebel binoculars will be a very good thing....

....however, although I know you confirmed that the 'red rectangle' would also be added to Luke's graphic too, I hope the same goes for the 'green and moving sections' that are seen either side of your new one.  These are my favourite elements from the original one, and they really add interest to the 'double-circle' version.  Nice work once again.

 

Ady: you may want to consider getting rid of the red box and extra stuff on the right and left.  One, it wasn't on Luke's binocs and second, it kinda distracts from the AT-ATs in the frame.  I could understand making the red numbers on the top and bottom more legible, but I would keep it toned down so people will be looking at the AT-ATs and not the green bar and red box (though I understand the red box was on the original binoc view).

At least try it out and see how it looks.

adywan said:

Monroville said:

You could also consider moding the nose to have it snort or breath.  Anything to indicate it is a living thing and not a puppet head.

It already breaths. you can clearly see the Taun Tauns breath coming from its mouth in the movie. It wouldn't breath from its nose while its mouth is open

 

Okey-doke: this is it for me.  (1): the taun-taun has a nose.  Breath may come out the mouth, but most animals breath IN through the nose.  Again, see horse for example.  If the thing isn't using it's nose, then why not CGI the nose out?

Monroville said:

All you have to do is watch the link above and compare the time markers I listed.  The movements are noticeably different.

I already have done that before i replied to you last time. the ear wobble is not due to movement. The ears have a skeletal like rod in the upper part of the ear extending from the skull to the tip of the ear. This creates the movement and also the vibrating wobble. The ears aren't just rubber like most puppets are. if you look at the shot where he turns around at the beginning of the clip you can see that the ear vibrates. if it was a wobble due to the rubber it would have not have continued the vibrating motion for so long after the puppet turned.

I understand the mechanics.  Rubber wobbles and the head IS made from rubber or something kin to it.  EMPIRE was made in 1979 and the advances in suits and artificial creations were nowhere near as advanced as they are today.  Even so, even the most current Batman suit was mostly rubber (be it the Burton or even Nolan films).  For another example at the wobbliness of rubber, check out the end of BATMAN FOREVER, with the Val Kilmer ear wobble as he runs to the camera with the spotlight behind him.  The head piece was 100% rubber.

I've seen it in a million movies from the 50's to even some today.   Yes, rubber would continue the momentum being that rubber has no rigidity to it at all.  The rod in the upper length of the ear may not have run the entire length, again due to 80's technology (being that the ear tips are possibly too small for the mechanical rod to extend all the way).  Also notice that the ear tip wobble only encompasses maybe a 2 to 3 inch area at the extreme end.

And yes, the ear movement that I describe is due to the movement of the Yoda puppet (either that or Yoda has some nerve issues) - he IS 900 years old and all).  The wobble I describe only happens when the puppet is turning or moving, not stationary.

Regardless, this is wearing me out.  This is your thing and do what you will.  In the end, it all comes down to being proactive with your desires, and this will be something else I'll work on for myself.

adywan said:

the ear wobbling was done deliberately at the time of filming as it had a mechanism built into the puppet to make the ears do that so it doesn't need to be changed. I'm keeping an eye on the hands but there isn't much i can do about those.

I am referring to the ears wobbling due to the bouncing of the Yoda puppet as it is being moved.  Again, per my previous post, it is a different movement from the deliberate movement as listed when the FX operators are having Yoda's ears move to show emotion (like when they perk up or level out due to what Yoda is saying).  Note that when Yoda's ears move deliberatley due to emotion the movement is smooth, as opposed to the rubber ear wobble which is fast and not reactive to what is happening on screen other than the movement of the puppet itself.  Also note that the mechanism in the ears was within the base of the ears, not the tips; it is the Ear Tips that waggle when he moves, not the base, which moves the entire ears (from 50 to 100%) to express emotion.

Even, then, it is not natural that a living thing has wobbly ears, being that I do not know any human or mammal whose ears wobble when they move.

The ear wobble is something that has affected most if not all puppets and animatronic figures throughout the 80's simply due to the ears or other small or thin parts not having the same structure or rigidity as flesh-and-blood ears, thus when said creature moves the momentum causes vibrations and thus movements in the neck and ears.

All you have to do is watch the link above and compare the time markers I listed.  The movements are noticeably different.  In fact, compare 0:12 to 0:22 to 0:24.  When Yoda first turns around the ears are wobbling at the tips.  In the second time marker, the ears are more stable at the ends.

Re: AT-ATs

I will respect the final decision and leave it at that.  Again, this will be something I will work on myself.

Re: puppet modification

The thing that gives puppets away the most are the extremities: rubbery, squishy fingers; dead eyes; stiff or rubbery body parts.  In the Yoda mod clip, you may want to tone down the ear wobble (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPd5lyi_6Tw - example at 0:12 mark and 0:42 to 0:50.  This is different from the conscious ear movements to denote emotion as seen on 0:19 to 0:21) and keep an eye on his fingers to make sure they don't do that "bending backwards" thing rubber gloves on a "man in a suit" usually do.

re: Taun-Tauns

The ear thing may not work, but some things just to think about:
(1) if you can't include the quick "ear flick" that horses are known to do (here's a rough example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y8lQzdXNjI), is there any way to have the ears prick up right before the Wampa attacks?  No long amount of movement, just the ears facing forward?




(2) being a beast of burden, how would the Taun-Taun look if the eyes were more like a horse (all black) as opposed to having human eyes?  At the least, is there any way to give a gloss layer over the eyes to indicate moisture?  The eyes look a little plastic.





maybe have the Taun-Taun eyes open up larger to show fright on the creature's face:



Could also consider darkening the area around the eye per the images above as reference:



You could also consider moding the nose to have it snort or breath.  Anything to indicate it is a living thing and not a puppet head.

re: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzHsO92Cljw&feature=PlayList&p=4DB0EA9A58709519&playnext=1&index=10

you could add a quick .5 to 1 second ear flick between 1:10 and 1:15, or between 1:23 and 1:35; could put in a quick eye blink or two between 1:49 and 1:51. 

Again, just suggestions.

ChainsawAsh said:

I think the most that needs to be done is adding in a couple shots of AT-STs going ahead of the AT-ATs to take care of the Rebels in trenches.  I've always wondered why they didn't do that - send the smaller AT-STs ahead to make way for the big AT-ATs.

SImple: budget. George and company no doubt wanted to do more, but being 1980 and the limits on technology and what money they had to spend, could only offer what we see.  That doesn't mean anybody should overload the film with anything, but let's all remember the whole point of the SEs to begin with was Lucas' attempt to bring them "up to date".

Ripplin said:

ImperialFighter said:

Sevb32 said:

I think we need to think twice about changing those AT-AT driver's hemets, look at this http://web.ukonline.co.uk/bingo275/original%20atat%20helmet.htm

Just add the red stripe or take it off: it's pretty obvious that it's the same cockpit and it would just be consistent.  Do whatever is easier but just keep it consistent.

Yes, very nice. Thanks, Sev. :)

And nice to hear your thoughts on the number of AT-ATs, Ady. It does seem like more of a 'crush the Rebellion with one swift stroke' kind of arrogance only sending a few AT-ATs to get rid of all the Rebels.

With all due respect, that's a load of BS.  Again, if the Empire is going to send a Super Star Destroyer and 10 to 12 regular Star Destroyers, why send an army of "5 friggin AT-ATs"?!?!  Why not send ONE regular Star Destroyer ala the beginning of ANH if the Empire is that overconfident?

And how I ask can you "crush the Rebellion with one swift stroke" with 5 AT-ATs?  That's like knocking down Mike Tyson with one swift stroke... from Gary Coleman!

Look, I understand the visual clutter issue, but if the Empire has an ARMY they are going to use it.  5 AT-ATs does NOT constitute an army!  Now what you CAN do to rectify that is another issue.  Also, if you want just 5 AT-ATs, that's what the OT is all about and Ady's HD torrents.  Granted, there has to be some logic to whatever changes are made, but I thought the whole point of this was to have fun and go for the gold when it comes to "special editionalizing" these things?

Think of it this way: when D-Day happened, did we send 5 landing craft or 500?  Forget about visual impressiveness (which the Empire would do, being that they kinda did it with Death Star 1 and 2 and a giant, frikken Star Destroyer over 10 miles long), the Empire is not going to take a chance on the group of teenagers that blew up the Death Star.

adywan said:

Monroville said:

The whole skiff battle will have some re-edits done to it and i want to change Bobas death if i actually keep him in the movie but using Jango for footage just isn't an option. Anyway this is the ESB thread and ROTJ isn't even going to be started until 2010 so maybe we should get back on topic. lol ;)

I see your point; forget about the armor- the LITTLE stuff you would have to add and subtract (the leg armor, the cloak, etc) would be ... let's say time intensive.  Like a year or so for a minute or less shot or two.

Getting back to ESB, i have been looking at the new Hoth battle footage and i'm really not too sure if adding more AT-AT's is the way to go. I've been thinking and i think that the original amount is perfect. Having just a few AT-At's kick the rebels ass really shows the might of the empire. Adding more in was really just a bit of fanwank really if you think about it. Its something that goes under the category "adding it because we can". It really adds nothing. I will be making the battle more intense but not with extra AT-ATs.

Ehh, I would add maybe 1 or 2 extra AT-ATs in the foreground/mid-ground and keep the majority of any extra AT-ATs in the distance/background.  The Empire is going to throw more than 5 AT-ATs just for the troop comlpliment alone, much less the over-kill - WHICH they would do; I mean c'mon Ady, they throw an Executor AND about 6 to 12 Star Destroyers at the Rebels!  You would think that they would have more than 5 AT-ATs. 

Visually your first mod was cluttered, but you could still have the AT-ATs in the far off distant shot before the binoc reveal, and in the first full-frontal shot just keep the extras far in the background ala a second wave.  That way you can keep the 5 up front and the rest don't seem like they're bunched together.  Even so, one or two more  in the foreground or midground (with the first wave of AT-ATs) could work, whereas 3 to 5 or more with the front group looked a bit silly, at least for that first full-frontal shot.

Remember that what made the Death Star attack in ANH:R so memorable was that you filled in the BACKGROUND action.  If you keep a lot of the additional material in the background (like swarms of snowspeeders going after 2 or so AT-ATs in the distance of any of the regular EMPIRE Hoth battle shots; some firefights with snowspeeders strafing AT-STs, etc ala the spinning TIE crashing in the background during the DS battle) THAT would be perfect.  Just open the battle up to more than just the foreground, just like you did with ANH and it will be glorious.

Other ideas for the Hoth battle:
- adding in background elements one would see, such as:

(a) when Wedge is attacking the AT-AT, add in mountains, clouds, and/or a group of snowspeeders in the sky backdrop.  It wouldn't have to be super-detailed since it would be in the distance or (in the case of a group of SS's flying by) blurry.  A lot of those "Wedge Attacks" shots looked like it was on a stage, as well as some of the AT-AT shots where bad things happened to them.  Again, it's the background details that really opened stuff up in ANH:R.

(b) when the 3 AT-ATs are making their final march as we see the Rebels flee the trench (you know, the George Pal WAR OF THE WORLDS troop retreat scene), you could add 2 AT-ATs, one on each end of the V formation, as well as maybe some AT-STs as they're all shooting at the fleeing Rebels, and/or add the wrecked AT-ATs in the background (again, wouldn't have to be any more detailed than billowing smoke). 

Now this add could be kinda MEH like the original AT-AT full-frontal, where it could get easily cluttered.  If anything, just do something simple to test the idea if you're keen to it.  If not, no biggie, though you could at least change the background to accomodate the background terrain ala the valley and the mountains (I believe all you see is white).

-- and for those who will argue "but it's a winter storm" or "duh, evil santa. Snow is kinda WHITE.  You'd think you would know that.  It's not like you live in Florida or something.."  Remember, there was no storm at all during the rest of the battle, and as with the rest of the battle, the weather was clear and sunny and you could see the mountains and all (with the exception of the pre-binoc shot, where the AT-AT dots are coming out of a fog bank).

(c) definitely change the shield generator explosion shot (where the rebel soldier falls from the AT-AT hit in the foreground - hell, maybe add some fire onto the guy or something.. I mean he DID just get hit with an AT-AT blast and all).  Add a transparent shockwave ala what you'd see on those HISTORY channel shows on the military (as opposed to a full-fledged explosion ring) and a better looking explosion.  I mean we ARE talking about a reactor as big as a building or two.  Maybe even do something with the snow as caused by the explosion ala the Wedge AT-AT kill.

And just for fun -not that you would add it in - add a shot from Vader's SD bridge to show the explosion from orbit ala the distant Nakatomi building explosion in DIE HARD - this could be inserted over the "Veers looks to see the explosion he just caused" shot.  Hell, you could not only show the explosion from orbit - it would be relatively small - but you could show the shockwave/shield field collapsing away from the explosion epicenter. 

Think like a muted version of the STARGATE end explosion, but on Hoth's surface/atmosphere and looking down from orbit.  Have a less-defined "ring" to match the transparent one in the initial SG explosion - hell, you could just make the explosion ring/shockwave a transparent blur and show clouds getting pushed back - no colors or actual rings, but the shockwave pushing the clouds away in a circular pattern.  Enough to get the awesomeness of the explosion without getting too Michael Bay about it.  Again, HISTORY CHANNEL military shows are a really good source for realistic expolsion source material.

DEFINITELY add some major bass to the explosion.  My pants should rumble when shield generator explode.  On this note:
Do not forget you can design the AUDIO as well as the video.  You don't have to do any more than add bass effects when they are called for: Wedge AT-AT explosion, SG explosion, you get the idea.

vbangle said:

doubleofive said:

Some people complain about removing the completely unnessary Boba Fett from RotJ and have no problem removing the plot-centric Jar Jar Binks from TPM.  I guess its all a matter of taste.  Boba Fett is all insert shots in Jabba's palace, interacts with one person (and then only in the SE), then flies from Jabba's sail barge to a skiff, gets knocked off and dies.  How is that essential in any way, especially since everyone wants him to live anyway?

But that has nothing to do with ESB, so I'll drop it now.

I think you guys are missing the point. It isn't so much about Boba Fett than it is about Han Solo having a measure of revenge on Boba....

 

I like someone else's suggestion of taking some of the Django Fett scenes, recoloring his outfit and giving Boba an escape option (have him fly away, gain control of his jet pack and fly over the sail barge... or something.  Hell, just ADD some extra Fett maybe by taking that CLONES clip and have him firing on the skiff crew).  Remember, it's more of a "Han getting revenge against Jabba" thing than anything else.  Too bad his girlfriend has to do it for him.

wharpua said:it's still up on MySpleen, and the quality is great

How can anyone even register to MySpleen to begin with?  The intro page is simply a Username and Password slot - that's it!  No "register here" link nor anything else.  Even Demonoid has a link to their home page and tell you that you need an invite to get in.

So how does MySpleen even work?

Rhikter said:

Originally posted by Akwat Kbrana:

 

"Also, insisting that Boba must be Jango's clone is a bit premature since AOTC:R won't be released for quite a few years."

That would also open the door, allowing for Jango's voice to say as is and for Boba's to return to its original state.

Happy Holidays everyone!

So what you're saying is that Ady could redub Boba the kid's voice with Boba's original EMPIRE voice, or would that just be a little too silly?

I guess I have to chime in here too (with the Santa get-up and all):

http://www.i-mockery.com/shorts/starwars-xmas/starwars.m3u

adywan said:

Sorry to knock your bucket (lol) but it is you that is wrong. It is not his jacket at all but just the lighting that created this illusion. Here's the proof taken from Empire of Dreams.

So there you have it. Solved

 

Okay, I'll admit defeat... but I would not have believed it until I saw it.  It has to be the material his "shirt" is made out of, because if it was a regular good ole fashion cotton shirt, there is NO WAY his shoulder could be dark black and his collar white like it is above, especially when you have the right-side light source illuminating Han's entire left side (which should have made the left side of the image dark and the right side lighter in color).

Regardless, there you go..

And Ady: you should have said "not to tug on your beard (especially during Christmas time)..."  Riplin has the bucket.  >:)

Ripplin said:

^That's a really old one that was "fixed" in the 2004 DVD. And it was never his jacket, it's just a shadow trick. There's a video somewhere that shows him stapping back into the shadow and the difference in lighting on his shoulders is tremendous.

um, sorry to knock on your bucket, but that's a jacket, not a shadow.  There's no way his shirt can be white AND black at the same time if he is in a shadow (which would shade his entire shirt, including his collar).

Because you know if this isn't fixed, the whole movie will be ruined for me.  FOREVER!

Bewy said:

Off-topic sorry: I didn't like Transformers because I didn't like the story, and it's too patriotic (in France we don't see patriotism this way :D).

And to come back to the flares, I don't know if it's useful to add some without any reason.

Well, patriotism isn't bad as long as there's something honest about it.  I dig INDEPENDENCE DAY and GLORY, one for being a straight-up 50's sci-fi movie and 70's disaster movie and the other for a more serious look at what patriotism truly is.  TRANSFORMERS is just too 5-year-old for me, and that's coming from someone who loves the animated 1986 TRANSFORMERS movie (which at least had scope!  I mean, how can you NOT like a movie that starts off with a planet-sized robot eating another planet for breakfast!).

Now Frank Capra?  THAT is some major patriotic syrup...

BTW, the UK TRANSFORMERS blu-ray (the 1986 animated film) is region free and looks EXCELLENT!

ImperialFighter said:

Adywan -  Since you confirmed recently that you would be adding a subtle 'lens flare' or two into this edit too, I seem to study every one I see on t.v. now!

I would nix the whole "added lens flare" thing unless it really looked good in the scene in question.  Most lens flares (short of those actually created within the camera itself -namely a lot of 1980's Dean Cundey shot films) look fake and added in and the last thing I would want is some extra FX splatted in to "enhance" a scene and stick out like a sore thumb.

While things like the green AT-AT lasers and red AT-AT cockpits would be cool, even I understand it is not necessary to add those things in, being that the movie is more than fine without them.  Even then, there would be a logical reason to add them in.  Adding garnish FX for the sake of it without having any meaning other than looks is kinda what makes the Prequels a little less.. meaningful (to be polite about it) than the original trilogy.

Well you could make the teeth more like stalactites and stalagmites, maybe something like this:



Well, you know... mnus the hands and all...