Monroville

adywan said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKPAFQxV1xw

If you can watch it on the ESB:R facebook group then i would recommend it as youtube video quality really sucks and has taken out all the detail

shouldn't the carbonite pod (above the window Luke eventually gets sucked out of) be 1.5 to 2 times bigger to account for the size of the carbonite chamber set?

Also, should the window Luke just came out off (if not being broken - don't know if it would be visible enough) have a darker, redder appearance to match the interior of the room Luke came out of, instead of the yellow light?

Then again, Ady could always add the alarm guy from FISTFUL OF YEN (at 5:30)

Same here... have any of those here cut from TP contacted them as to why (or tried re-registering)?  I post occasionally like Elbarto1 and I'm still there...

adywan said:

Well you have only watched Youtube footage and most of the Hoth footage posted was from the first colour pass to remove the cyan tint. Those photos you posted aren't really a fair description of what the glacier would look like in daylight as neither one are in full daylight. check out these photos that were taken recently at the actual Hoth location in Finse.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/knokkel/4583145753/in/set-72157623994401080/

Hmm, not much blue there is there and certainly nothing like the 2004SE.

You mean like this?:)



Also check out Finse 108, Finse 118, Finse 119 (I almost wish the Hoth battle had a look similar to 118 and 119, as the bright "high noon" lighting makes everything look more model-ish),

I think he was primarily speaking of the night or dusk-ish scenes, such as when Luke sees Ben and the like.  Granted, the blue hue on the 2004 SE was cheaply overdone to give the above photo impressions.  Even so, considering that the ENTIRE video image of EMPIRE had the blue shift (even after everyone left Hoth), I don't even think that it was intentional... or the video processors just forgot to turn the filter off...

BTW:

RoccondilRinon said:

 

3. If someone asks a question that can only be answered by reading the entire thread and someone jumps on him, we jump on the first jumper.

Or as Mel would say:



Everybody jumps Queen!

Moth3r said:

Converting 4:3 letterboxed widescreen to 16:9 anamorphic is not so simple, as the video needs to be re-encoded. You could try using DVD Rebuilder (you will also need an MPEG-2 encoder, e.g. HC Encoder) which has a 4:3 to 16:9 option.

Tell me about it... it's not as simple as clicking a button, since "16x9"ing a 4:3 image will stretch the black bars with the rest of the image.

Is there a program out there that will allow you to manually set the video frame (not just to crop out the black bars in a 4:3 letterboxed video, but say create a 2.35:1 video image out of a 1.85:1 video)?

Bobocop said:

Indeed, all the females of the universe would mourn the loss of such a smooth operator.

But I think even the "Two fighters against a star destroyer?" line pales in comparison to the delivery of ROTJ's "Copy, gold leader."

The only line in ESB I'd consider changing is the obvious one that's already being taken care of: the old "Alert my star destroyer to prepare for my arrival"

Speaking of bad lines, the JEDI: REVISITED thread is going to have a good number of posts on this one (um, the secondary fighter pilots? B-wing pilot (in his best Liam Neeson DARKMAN deadpan voice: "there's... too.. many.. of them")

But to keep it on target, have to concur with having no problem with either the "2 fighters vs. SD" or "look, SD" lines.  Maybe they could be better or edited out (or whatever) but nowhere NEAR rank in badness comparison to those lines from secondaries in JEDI.

TV's Frink said:

If memory serves, killing Lando was a joke that people took seriously.

Well... that is debatable...

Frankly, I can go either way.  I understand that it was originally intended to kill SOMEBODY off, to add an element of sacrifice (ala STAR TREK 2) that really hit home with the audience - as in, to sacrifice a character nobody wanted to see die, as opposed to Wedge (which nobody wants to see die, but he is kinda periphery) or R2 (who could be rebuilt) or a random Ewok.  While I do like the "Yahoo!" from Lando, I could see it cut right when Lando rams/shoots out the reactor, flash of white light, DS2 blows up immediately, etc.

No doubt this will come up once the JEDI:REVISITED thread begins...

vaderios said:

Here the gif for your consideration :)

-Angel~3 Days left~

Naturally I imagine this would play slower, but image-wise it looks a bit... plain?  How would this (and the preceding "R2 and C3PO approaching Jabba's palace" scene) look if it was early in the day?  Maybe not heavy on the straight orange hues (ala a lot of the Cloud City shots) but something more of a mix of orange and blues in the sky or something more akin to 7:00am in the morning?

That way Luke's entrance could be around (high) noon, with or without the added entrance scene as the follow up:

I could imagine seeing a mirage-ish, hazy form coming in ala HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER, as the hooded man comes into focus.  Cut to inside the palace ala the original shot, with maybe the added bit of THM raising his hand, implying that (soon to be revealed as Luke) is the one opening the huge blast doors with the Force, soon followed by him choking the guards (without sticking his hand out).

(from ady's AVCHD)

-Angel

Hmm.... in regards to this shot, is anything going to be done to the central left area, ie the background behind the front section of the Falcon?

The reason I mention this is that when the blast doors close for the night (in one of the preview clips), the hanger has been expanded/deepened so the Falcon is much farther back than it was originally.  Thus, in this shot, shouldn't that be reflected in the left area to show the hanger go back farther away?

I'm not sure but is that the blast door to the direct left of the silhouetted rebel?

Hey Angel: could you post the original to compare to your revised image?

EDIT (after reading V's response below):
(faceslap)

I guess since it's been a loong time since I've seen EMPIRE...

I really hope Ady keeps the mix of blue and orange in the sky per that image above... I really like the contrast in colors and just feels more realistic.. it doesn't seem as flat as the all-orange sky shots per the original.

adywan said:

Now here's a quick little fix i've just finished (please don't cross post this to anyone elses youtube account)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEUEISUj9M4

Not sure how I feel about this one... I know Wedge is supposed to be Rogue 3 and all, but maybe it's the change in pitch in Luke's voice that makes it sound a little odd.  Is there any way to alter the pitch to Mark Hamill's voice to sound similar to his original line (with the slightly higher and more urgent pitch)?

re: BESPIN FLIPPED SHOTS (particularly Luke falling from great height):
pesonally, I never would have noticed them if you never pointed them out.  Other than doing some CGI on Luke's hand(s), I say just keep it, especially the shot looking up the shaft towards the carbonite pod - being that if you flipped that shot, the pod would be on the right side of the shaft, which would conflict with the previous placing of the pod on the left side of the shaft.

Yeah, (2) would be ... complicated to do, if that (but you get my gist; something to make the scene play out a little better, if Leia is to emulate Han, not to mention a reason to get rid of the "freeze!" line while still justifying why those troopers are just sitting there NOT shooting them).  (1) may be an actual option, though it would be interesting to see how it would play.

Or you could do this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IPAGXyFvrs

No problemo, SSWR!

Regarding "the troopers versus Leia" scene (I may have mentioned this already), I don't know what you could do with it.  Some ideas:

(1) just cut it out.  I know it was supposed to be a flip on the EMPIRE scene, but it just comes across as a lazy flip on the EMPIRE scene.  I would replace the "laser graze to the arm" with an actual explosion (a little more to the right of the screen) so Leia takes a schrapnel hit as opposed to a poorly aimed laser blast.  Then it could just segway to the Scout Walker approaching them.  That way you have R2 hit, Leia hit and now comes the SW for the kill; the dramatic tension could really work as opposed to having the "I wuv you; I know" bit let out the steam.

(2) if there was a way to alter the scene so instead of saying "freeze" and all that jive, have the troopers say something to the effect of: "It's the princess! She has a bounty on her head!"  or "My brothers were on the last Death Star...I've been waiting for this for a long time."  Leia:"Yes, I bet you have (which could be done by keeping the shot on the troopers, but adding an out-of-focus stand in for Carrie Fisher [as we are looking over her shoulder, so we'd see part of her head, say on the right side of the screen] and have someone who sounds like CF dub the line, so you don't see her face or mouth when the words are spoken)." followed with FISTFUL OF DOLLARS type shot where you can see the blaster in the foreground as she/it shoots both troopers, followed with Han's look (being that it would implicate that she now has a bit of the scoundrel in her now).

Yeah, but sometimes all it takes is just one or two lines of dialogue to take care of something.  Things like cellphones in a horror movie ("hey, my cellphone has no signal out in the middle of nowhere... I'm in a horror movie, aren't I?) or Aliens/Russians speaking english (LAST STARFIGHTER or HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER) have to be addressed if you want someone to take your story seriously.

You could show a set of cascading "chain reaction" explosions going down the row of those huge electric conduits we see behind the Imp officer who stops Han.  Then again, who is to say that Han is placing explosives?

Maybe he sets locators which tell the rebel fleet where the shield generator is, which allows the ships to bombard it and destroy it (ala OPERATION: CROSSBOW).  That would allow any number of "war movie barrage" scenes to be inserted (say, replace Forrest Gump with Han, as he runs away from large explosions, or something to that effect).

I think it's fine as-is.  If anything I could see maybe 2 or 3 SDs far in front of the Executor and it's 2 escorts (say add one to the left and center that are the same size or even a bit smaller than the one way out in front directly to the right of Hoth), and show them moving to the left, top and right (spreading out, forming the outer part of the net).  If there was any problem I have with that shot, it's that I'm left saying: "where's the fleet?"

I would at least move that SD beside the Executor's right and move it little bit more to the right (or top) and put some space between the two.  Right now it looks like the driver could easily make a slight left turn and wreck right into the SSD conning tower.

I like what you have there SSWR.  I still wish that the Obi scene gets cut out altogether and this is where the "sister" reveal is.  I would almost get rid of the Leia part where she says "I know.. somehow I've always known."  I would rather see her stay a bit in silence to show how stunned she is rather than (shrugs shoulders) "yeah, I figured as much", as well as cut out the 2nd quick Han looking on.  I think it would flow a lot nicer to show Luke and Leia in the far shot, Luke leave offscreen and then Han enters and says the "you love him, don't you?" line (seeing him the one time is enough to establish that he is, and has, been listening the whole time).

Oh yeah, and the extra bit with C3P0 talking about "including the Ewoks into the story will make them part of the rebellion".

Overall, excellent concept.. though what would you do at the end (when Leia reveals the "but he's my brother" bit)?

UNFINISHED JEDI BITS:
Part 1: I really like the idea of actually using the rebel disguised as a Scout Trooper, though I would change the "reactor leak" line (which, forget about a nod to Han's bit in the detention block) is rather silly, as the reactor is BEHIND them in the bunker.  Better to have a more angry, active voice say something like: "We've spotted the rebels! They're heading this way!"

Part 2: could work, but I would probably put the droids even farther back, so it would be conceivable that the troops could be taken out without being noticed.

Part 3: eh... I understand it's a quickie, but I still hate the "you're shooting to kill, but we're going to say "freeze"?!?" bits from the troopers.

Overall, good stuff!  If anything JEDI:R is going to be a LOOOOOT of work....

Bingowings said:

One suggestion I don't think has been made before.

When the Rebels enter the interior of the Death Star we have one shot for the first ships to drop in and another for the Falcon.

I personally feel it would be an improvement if the camera could trail behind the Falcon (almost as if it was mounted on one of the TIEs if you catch my drift) so the entrance is in one fluid sequence without cut aways until they are inside.

It feels a bit choppy at the moment.

Sounds good... one way you could go about doing this is to take part of the scene where the Falcon goes into the crater in EMPIRE, but show the Falcon do the loop into the DS2, followed by a group of fighters.  Since the asteroid part of the shot would be removed and replaced with the DS2, you could also get rid of the convenient "manhole" they go down and have the Falcon and fighters go into the area of the DS2 that is under construction, as there is a LOT more wiggle room on the incomplete side:



I know, simplistic, but you get the idea.  I wonder how conceivable it would be to show action going on behind the Falcon and its fighter wing, maybe even showing the DS laser shooting off as the Falcon approaches the camera, flies by (ala the X-wing at Yavin in the DS1 approach) and segways into the altered "Falcon hides in the asteroid cave" wide arc into the DS2.

Sluggo said:

Monroville said:

...
Of course, you'd have to wonder who made the poor design of putting an antenna for things to get caught on right below a disposal hatch... You would think that when Luke falls onto the antenna, there would already be some clothes and junk hanging off that thing from previous door openings...

It's an exhaust vent, not a garbage disposal hatch.   It wouldn't be designed for bits to fall out, so the placement of the vane isn't a big deal.

Well, the problem here is that if it was an exhaust vent, there would be a grate, as opposed to a physical door that opens and closes.  The only thing that would serve would be to eject hard objects, as any sort of gaseous waste could go out... well, a vent.

Even in the case of a vent for waste gases, it would still seem odd that you would have an antenna so close to something that could spew toxic chemicals out and damage your antenna...

corellian77 said:

I cannot stress how much I HATE those things.  It seems like every science fiction movie that's come out in the last decade just falls back on that concept, with no attempt at originality.  I'll take a computer like Mother from Alien over any TF3DPCI (like my new acronym?) any day of the week... at least it felt like a real computer.

Corelian77: I agree to a degree...

It DOES seem to be the "go to" idea for modern sci-fi, but you could say every decade had it's generic sci-fi appearance too:

From the 20's to the 50's, sci-fi had that "mad scientist, FLASH GORDON look to everything"

From the 50's to the early 80's, sci-fi had the realistic, practical look, which shifted from the clean but functional NASA look (with DESTINATION: MOON and 2001) to the lived-in with grease look (STAR WARS and ALIEN).  And let's not forget about the switches... and I mean LOTS of switches.

From the 80's to the, um, 80's, everything had the neon red laser light thingie (LAST STARFIGHTER, AIRPLANE 2, BUCK ROGERS) and a nice polish to it, with the exception of those things still carrying on the 70's grime tradition (TERMINATOR, BLADE RUNNER, ALIENS).

Now that we have computer graphics, one can only think of what else can be done to show people interacting with computers that is beyond what we have today... thus, MINORITY REPORT, the new STAR TREK, etc.

Keep in mind that (of all movies) THE BLACK HOLE in a way started that trend with the 3-D holographic space vessel projector, so even back then (in the far, far time of 1980) FX artists were thinking about it, but just couldn't pull it off as convincingly (or generically)

BTW, you're probably going to hate my ALIEN edit ... >:)

You know, you could always keep the blue but change the style of the logo to match the STAR WARS opening title crawl.

SPACE
BALLS (BLAM!  Filling up the screen!  Then receding into distance)

as opposed to:

SPACEBALLS (there it is... that's it.  Just the title.)

Also (with the Princess Vespa's bad hair day massacre), you could do some slight audio manipulation on the Wilhelm scream to have slightly different pitches to account for the different guards getting zapped.  In fact, everyone who gets hurt (who is not a main character) could have their own unique Wilhelm scream.

On a more serious note, I can more than live with the current view remaining unchanged, as far as angling it or whatever.  What I COULD see changed is the perspective, ie. seeing more antennas receding into the distance.  As it stands now, it looks like Cloud City just "ends".. there is no real vanishing point.

I could also see some more minor, subtle FX work, such as having some of the antenna's with slowly pulsing red lights, the way the red lights on buildings at night work.

Also, (no biggie, but a suggestion all the same) it has been awhile since I've seen that actual scene, but is there a way to conceivably show Luke move sideways to the effect that he uses the Force to, for lack of a better word, "magnetize" himself and thus jumps to the antenna?   The point being that there is no physical way he could have fallen straight down onto the antenna without Luke using the Force in some way to move sideways to the antenna.



I understand that this shot is done at an angle to show the entire door.. it doesn't necessarily mean that the entire underbelly of CC is angled like this.  Regardless, the antenna could not extend under the door for Luke to reach, as the door swinging open would hit the antenna, or ejected debris would get caught on or damage the antenna, rendering it useless (unless it was purposefully done to constantly send unruly Ugnaughts on routine antenna repairs)




granted, the antenna is maybe 4 to 6 feet away from the door's center, but considering that the hole Luke fell out of is big enough for at least 6 people side-by-side (in a 2 x 3 formation) to fall out simultaneously, I would still think that the antenna he is on would be at the least an extra forearm length away from actually grabbing; even if Luke COULD grab it physically, the best he could grab would be the very tip of the horizontal antenna(s), which would snap off from his weight and still result in him plummeting to his death/glowy afterlife.


Again, don't know if it can be done convincingly (much less whether it needs to be done), but if there is anything that can be done to better explain Luke getting on that antenna, that would be quite cool.

savmagoett said:

in fact the shot could be considered "in favor" of the sloped undercity, thus partially solving the problem ;)

Something like that:

Forgive the crudety of this, I mockuped a mockup from Vaderios, so it's all Vaderios' fault :p

Well, it would definitely make more sense as to how Luke fell onto the antenna, as opposed to just falling away from the city.   If the bottom of CC was completely flat (or at least the part Luke fell out of), and the antenna was off to the side, why DIDN'T Luke just... fall to his death?

Yeah, yeah, yeah... I know... Jedi lifting powers (not to get sidetracked, but if Jedis could lift X-wings, much less rocks, wouldn't they be able to lift "themselves" and fly around like superman?)

Of course, you'd have to wonder who made the poor design of putting an antenna for things to get caught on right below a disposal hatch... You would think that when Luke falls onto the antenna, there would already be some clothes and junk hanging off that thing from previous door openings...

I'm imagining a ROBOT CHICKEN skit: a Cloud City resident decides to commit suicide and jumps down the shaft, only to get sucked out the door and gets hooked onto the vane.  Then he sees the Millenium Falcon approaching the city... the whole thing could be him trying to get back in and failing horribly, only to hear the door beginning to open, out comes Luke, who lands on top of him and... what do you know!  THAT is what is falling away from Luke!

Remember gang that Luke fell into a garbage disposal/vent; it is conceivable that the object was someone's junk that was sucked into the vent along with Luke.

EDIT: yeah, that tunnel is pretty clean for junk... >:)

I do like the idea of replacing the object with an antenna or something more recognizable.

Maybe it can be solved in another way:



Maybe a flat area could be created to ring around the central shaft.  It would allude to the central spike as the shaft we see (which is what I always thought it was).  The picture of Luke underneath might have to be modified a bit (showing the conical feature to the right side, while keeping the area Luke is underneath flat), but then again the area he is under is as large as a few city blocks (compare the flat area to the city on the top), so no change would be necessary except for maybe the far off shots of Cloud City to show the flat ring around the lower base.

It would be interesting to see the shots with the Falcon before, during and after they pick up Luke, to see if any of the main shaft or other underside details could be included.  Also, is it me or could something be done to the underside to show it extend a lot more into the background (more antennas, with the grid work extending back more, etc)?

I could also see that establishing shot of the main shaft exterior being modified (when Luke first falls out of the garbage door, he looks down and watches debris fall away), such as more skyscraper style pulsing red lights, etc.