Ady: you probably are already aware of this (and I know you've already done the work smoothing out the stop-motion FX on the Taun-Tauns and the like), but here is something that could be helpful:
FurnaceCore for Final Cut Pro (especially at the 1:58 mark)
Lemonstein said:
LOL! Awesome. There really are no original ideas anymore...
I hope that pic doesn't offend you.
Well, this is JEDI we're talking about too. Wouldn't the Emperor's "now watch as the rebellion is destroyed by a fully operational battle station!" not only mean the super laser works, but that the DS2 has its own shields? I would think that would be one of the first things you would make sure was functional...
I think one of the biggest problems I had with the DS2 is just the way it looks, to the degree that you have to think: is that really how they go about building stuff?
Don't you usually build a framework of a building and work your way up (or in this case, work your way out from the center)? I understand that ILM had to come up with something that was instantly recognizable as both "a Death Star" and "under construction", but would there be a way to make it ... i dunno.... maybe not so much as "more realistic (per my own points about STAR WARS being STAR WARS)" but more "under construction" looking (per the image directly above)?
Hell, just looking at that pic above, how would it look to see Star Destroyer sized ships towing chunks of DS2 decks and showing them being fitted into the main body (be it during Vader's arrival or the Emperor's)?
Maybe the dish area could be left empty/open (to give the visual of the super laser being the last thing to be finished), so later when the Emperor uses it you can see the lasers coming from the core to the outer ring, then shooting and reconverging into the laser. You could fill the void inside the dish (down to the reactor) with multiple layers of spiderweb like superstructure, to further emphasize the spider web behind the Emperor's chair.
dark_jedi said:
What is that thing Monroville? does it play Blu-ray files as well?
Yup! The only thing it does not play is Flash video (at the moment, since the people who make the Argosy are really good with firmware upgrades).
I usually just take out the TS file from the blu-ray folder and download it directly onto the hard drive (no need to have all of those blu-ray folders when all you really need is just the movie from the STREAM folder).
Interesting.... it almost sounds as if the intent was to make up for the fact that Chewie never got a medal at the end of STAR WARS (by the end, he is the main hero who is rewarded singularly). It probably would have still been pretty cheezy, but hey... it would have had Raquel Welch in it!
adywan said:
Monroville said:
Even so, it would make more sense (to me) to show the Falcon moving away from us, since that is what it was doing in the previous shot as it was leaving the underbelly of the frigate, as opposed to just veering off to the left. That's all I'm sayin'.I tried it with the falcon just flying straight towards it, but in the final shot there was nothing to see. The falcon works best if it veers off to the left and in the final shot we can see it in the distance flying off screen
Understandable; I never thought that the Falcon would already be pretty small in the picture and having it fly directly away from us could get it lost in the galaxy image.
I guess maybe actually show the Falcon heading directly away and veer to the left/lower left (or even more to the center left of the screen)? That way you still have a good profile of the Falcon, and altering the left turn towards the lower end of the screen as opposed to the higher end would keep it in the same general plane of space it was when it left from underneath the frigate.
Overall, I'm just a composition guy. It's not a big deal, but the Falcon always looked weird just flying off to the upper left corner the way it does.
Bobocop said:
You should change it to Needa taking an escape pod and being intercepted, then brought to Vader :P
Thanks Bobo, that made my day... better still, why not have him go over in a spacesuit, since nobody wants to fly him over:
Poor Captain Needa.. he's like Gil from the SIMPSONS
Lemonstein said:
Monroville said:
Another thought on the DS2: don't know if this could be done, but what about only showing the superstructured area (from Han and Co. arriving to when the rebel fleet arrives) to make it look like the Empire has a long way to go to finish it.
When the rebel fleet show up and the Emperor says "now witness the firepower of a fully functional battle station!", the DS2 spins around to reveal the central laser dish and that side being completely finished (to provide a "holy shit!" moment). Hell, even if you didn't alter the appearance of the DS2, that would be cool to see regardless.
But surely if they know that the DS2 exists and have its plans then there is a high probability they know how much of it has been constructed - even if they don't know it's working (as it is in the film already). I don't buy that they'd be that easily fooled - this is a 3D environment they're all flying around in. The DS2 would have to remain facing away from every rebel ship at every moment for such concealment to work. If the firing crater were hidden from the outside and made to look like the normal surface of the station that might work, but just to have it facing away isn't enough.
Also keep in mind this is the STAR WARS universe, where killing one man brings down an entire empire that spans a galaxy. Besides:
(1) the plans could be rigged to show the DS2 as less complete than it really is.
(2) only those working on the physical construction of the DS2 would know, as it is supposed to be a secret.
(3) the rebel fleet all emerges from one jump point, not from all directions.
and most importantly:
(4) it would be primarily a visual thing to represent the visual aspect of something thought to be damn near nothing but superstructure is in actuality 60%+ finished, and finished enough to wipe out every last rebel. STAR WARS isn't STAR TREK, which itself has some issues with the laws of physics... though STAR TREK "has" to be fairly accurate (or accurate enough) as it depicts a human future. STAR WARS is science fantasy, with laser swords and talking bigfeet. As with most mythical stories, symbolism and visuals play a big part in the storytelling to emphasize a point.
The main reason for the suggestion was to visualize what the Emperor says so it is not just the DS shooting the super laser, but having it turning around to reveal the super laser for the first time, complete and ready to use. Granted, we have hindsight, having seen the movie already, but imagine seeing this as a 13 year old kid in a theater for the first time and seeing something that looks like nothing but model parts turn around and reveal for the first time the Death Star we all know and fear.
You know, I think that is one of the biggest problems with JEDI is how everything is just kinda there... no build-ups or crafty reveals.. everything just sort of happens. It is almost as if George was just going through the motions and didn't really care anymore.
BINGO: don't know how easy it would be to do, but maybe a CG texture could be added to the "plain" paneled parts of the DS2 to give it the look in the painting.
Another thing that could possibly be done: if more footage was to be shot for the Endor battle, you have the Rogue Squadron guy who has costumes and the like. What you could do (either with adults in rebel camo outfits and/or children in Ewok outfits) is take shots of multiple stormtroopers firing in groups (with their guns firing rapid fire) and take some "from behind" shots of the rebels/Ewoks and without having to show a lot (or any) blood, just show multiple laser blasts going through them (ala John Woo's HARD BOILED) and tearing trees down.
While not showing a bit of blood, it would show just how brutally destructive the empire can be when working as professional soldiers (not to mention it would bring up images of the British during the Revolutionary War - as the Empire was a mash of the Nazis and the 1770's British).
Also, when the AT-STs are shooting at Ewoks or rebel troops, you could either take shots of other movies of people getting blown off the ground while on fire (such as the end of BAD BOYS in the hanger finale) or if they are distance shots add some Ewoks getting blown into the air and CG some fire on them.
Another thought on the DS2: don't know if this could be done, but what about only showing the superstructured area (from Han and Co. arriving to when the rebel fleet arrives) to make it look like the Empire has a long way to go to finish it.
When the rebel fleet show up and the Emperor says "now witness the firepower of a fully functional battle station!", the DS2 spins around to reveal the central laser dish and that side being completely finished (to provide a "holy shit!" moment). Hell, even if you didn't alter the appearance of the DS2, that would be cool to see regardless.
Maybe something could be done with the color of the leaves and grass (not so much change it to a solid blue or anything, but add some different colors throughout the forest. A good amount of trees could still have green leaves, especially during the speeder bike chase scenes [as it would be near impossible to alter the leaf coloring during the chasing].)
In regards to the DS2, how would it look to have more than one large trench? Instead of just the central equatorial trench, what if you had 6 all interconnecting to the (now centrally located) super laser. Hell, what if you had energy race down these 6 trenches to the laser dish when it fired (to further emphasize that the DS2 is one gigantic cannon)?
(long, loud sigh)
My point was the direction of the Falcon when it leaves in that last shot. As far as the galaxy/forming star/whatever it is, if anything was to be done to it, just blur up the arms so it doesn't look like galaxy spiral arms with stars in it.
Even so, it would make more sense (to me) to show the Falcon moving away from us, since that is what it was doing in the previous shot as it was leaving the underbelly of the frigate, as opposed to just veering off to the left. That's all I'm sayin'.
Cool enough: I always thought it WAS a galaxy because that's what it looks like... a forming star has more foggy arms which in turn (you would think) would be visibly converging into the center mass. What you see at the end of EMPIRE... well, just looks like a regular ole galaxy with spiral arms full of stars.
VS 
As far as the trajectory of the Falcon, it's no different than the missing mug in the first shot of the Nostromo computers first coming to life (switch angle to funky helmet with a knob on it, back to computer console and BLAM! Coffee mug!) - not so much a blatant continuity error so much as it was just a shot that had to be done without any thought about "hey, where did this coffee mug come from?" or "why would the Falcon fly off to the left when there is a galaxy right in front of them"?
What most likely happened was that the Falcon model shot was done separately from the background plate, to the degree that when the Falcon model was shot they photographers probably didn't know what was going to be put into the blue screen behind it quite yet (or only had a concept drawing or written description).
Again, galaxy or forming star, I still consider that it would be more visually pleasing to the eye, make sense to the story elements (themes of separation, ie. showing the Falcon fly off to the left doesn't provoke as strong an emotional punch as seeing it fly directly away from us to possibly never be seen again) and fit logically to have the Falcon fly away from us as opposed to the left side of the screen (if this is done, another scene that can be used is when the Falcon is flying away from Cloud City right before it does an emmelman through the cloud to go back to get Luke. The angle of the Falcon would be right, as it would be from a lower angle below the window Luke and Leia are looking out of).
Regardless, I know I can only suggest.
savmagoett said:
This is from the Savmegoett STAR WARS vehicle size chart thread. I post this in regards to the outside view: will this be altered/enhanced in any way (be it with a model at least for the Slave 1 and gantry, so it stands out better).
Also (the main reason I posted this), shouldn't the tower behind the Slave 1 not exist, as when we see Han being loaded there is nothing but clear sky behind the Slave 1? I know this is at an angle, but even so, you should have been able to see the building in the "loading Han aboard Slave 1" scene off to the left of the screen (which you don't). Regardless, I think the shot would be helped by erasing the building behind Slave 1, as it would help it stand out so we could definitely see what Leia is going after.
Also also, I don't remember if Leia and company shoot any stormtroopers that were already out on the landing platform, but would it be conceivable to either show the stormtroopers on the platform outside this window shot moving to the left (as they are leaving from supervising Han's loading) and/or show light from the cargo area and show Boba getting in and the door closing (to emphasize just how close Leia got to getting to Slave 1) as Leia and company move down the hallway on the left of the screen (if this last idea was used, maybe shots of Jango from ATTACK OF THE CLONES and/or REVENGE OF THE SITH could be used - as far as shots of him walking away from the camera - as it would be at an extreme distance. Color alterations would have to be done on the armor, but it wouldn't have to be too rigorous as the viewable figure would measure to roughly an inch at best on a good 65" HDTV))?
Maybe some running lights on Slave 1 too? Essentially anything subtle that could add some depth and life to the outside view...
My only real beef with the last shot is the trajectory of the Falcon - regardless of the galaxy being a "galaxy" or newly-forming star (or whether it is replaced by something completely different, slightly different or altogether pretty much the same thing), just seeing the Falcon veer off to the middle to upper left just looks wrong. You almost want to yell out "Hey Lando! The friggin galaxy is THAT way!"
I would suggest changing the shot so instead of the Falcon doing its left turn into deep space, possibly use the shot of the Falcon approaching Yavin IV (or a similar rear end shot) to show it heading towards the galaxy or at least AWAY from the fleet/ the audience (even if "the galaxy" is a forming star, there is nothing saying the Falcon could zip away under it or towards the lower arm).
Mock up will appear within the next few days.
Also, will there be more rebel ships, as well as possibly bigger ones (not Home One size, but maybe something as big or slightly bigger than the frigate but along the lines of what the transports look like)? I know Ady is reworking that shot (due to the travel paths of multiple ships converging into each other).
Something else too... would there be any alteration to the other ships around the frigate to adjust for consistency in sizes? It just seems that the rebel blockade runners should be much larger in comparison to the frigate, considering how big that side window is that Luke and Leia look out of (in comparison to the bridge window of the blockade runner).
Any word on whether this is going to be done with the AT-AT foot (to keep it in scale)?:
A couple of suggestions for the "galaxy" at the end:
(1) Don't know if it can be used (as the scene only lasts a few seconds), but there is a fairly nice looking rotating galaxy in (believe it or not) the opening of HOWARD THE DUCK, of which you can get a 720p MKV out there.
(2) maybe a planet (or forming planet) can be put somewhere in the mid ground, as well as giving the swirling area around the galaxy a slight bluish tint or something to indicate it is not a galaxy, but a forming star? Also, maybe making the "arms" a bit blurred, to indicate gas forming into the star, as opposed to what indeed looks like a galaxy spiral arm.
How would you guys feel about someone taking a blu-ray rip of AN:Redux and inserting the workprint footage in when appropriate (say have the 720p quality footage fade into the workprint version and back again, so as to distinguish what is the workprint footage)? Granted, it would have to be done in a way that flowed well (no hard cuts if possible), but it would be interesting and not as hard on the eyes...
Maybe the original concept with the laser disc in the center of the equator (instead of right above it) could be used:
If there are more AT-ATs than just the single one in that last shot, it would be very impressive actually if either the front 3 were still standing (with Luke taking out one of the rear ones) or at least 2 (if Luke takes out one of the front row AT-ATs) and show them combine their firepower to collectively take out the shield generator.
The exisiting AT-AT(s) would be where the left triangles are.
DarthXenu said:
I am glad to hear that the AT-AT doesn't fall. I like the fact that in the original movie they only manage to take out a couple of walkers. the battle of Hoth was a walkover for the Empire. Showing more walkers getting destroyed would lessen the impact of the story.
IMHO
I actually liked it quite a bit; I liked the aspect of action happening in multiple areas simultaneously. Even more so, it helped to explain what happens to the other 2 AT-ATs with Veers and why there is only one out of the 5 left.
If you want a walkover, then you have to go back to the 10 AT-ATs Ady was originally going to do (at least for a few opening/establishing shots) to show an actual army coming towards the rebels. If the original 5 AT-AT task force is kept (a quick landing in case the shield was amped to cover the land as well, preventing even landing craft from getting to the rebels), you still have that last shot with only 1 AT-AT left shooting at the shield generator.
Overall, continuity is key (in the end, all 5 AT-ATs have to be accounted for, whether there are still one or two besides Veer's AT-AT in that last shot before it shoots at the shield generator or there are 4 smoldering piles of AT-AT rubble behind it).
Okeydoke.. just posting it out there.
A few other notes:
(1) When talking about the scene where Dac gets into Luke's snowspeeder and they start to lift off, there is a blocky part underneath the snowspeeder used to hide the forklift lifting it up. Is there any way to delete this and "flatten" the bottom of the snowspeeder?
You can see it better in this clip at 1:15.
(2) And will you be working on the AT-AT matte in this shot?:
Not to beat a dead horse (as this was brought up some time ago), but after watching this clip again , would it be more compositionally better if instead of the rear end of the AT-AT on the left (from 0:08) there was an AT-AT in the foreground in the right side of the screen (say we can see the feet, legs, and a part of the underbelly and the bottom of the head, but enough to the right so Luke is still clearly seen - say the head would be in the sky and part of the rear panel on the midground AT-AT's body)?
That way instead of all the AT-ATs populating the midground of the shot, you would have something in the foreground, midground and background to establish some depth. Also, Veer's AT-AT doesn't necessarily have to be the one in the center (I know the argument will be that Veer's AT-AT is the one leaving the frame; my point is primarily a visual one).
Another question: has anyone rewatched the AT-AT attack scene (from the binoc spotter to the shield generator being destroyed) to keep an eye not just on lightsource/shadow direction (from the sun) but clouds or lack of them? If there is a higher percentage of cloudless sky shots, would it be conceivable to delete the clouds from the rest of the AT-AT attack scenes to develop consistency (ie. give the scene in the clip above a clear blue sky, among other scenes)?
I'm currently working on a mock-up of the above idea...
EDIT:
this way Luke is still the center of the subject image, but you have a progression of depth with the AT-ATs, with maybe snowspeeders flying inbetween them.
Being that when the AT-ATs are shooting at the rebels fleeing, the rebels are pretty spread out. Thus when we see out of Veer's (or one of the other AT-AT) bridge window, it does not have to be in the center. Thus the AT-AT in the foreground could be Veers (with the shot of the lone AT-AT shooting at the last fleeing rebel troop, the other 2 downed AT-ATs could be shown behind and to the left of it, since it is already on the right side of the screen):
Triangles are rough areas where destroyed AT-ATs could be... as the one is being tripped (in the background) as Luke goes up the midground AT-AT, both of their wreckage should be roughly beside each other.
I guess further back, the other 2 AT-AT bodies should be present too (probably far behind the AT-AT and slightly to the right), with smoke trails similar to what is coming from the destroyed rebel gun turrets.
