Mavericks

From reading Rinzler I got an impression that Marquand wasn’t treated too friendly, and experienced not enough of emotional support on the part of cast and crew. I imagine he was under huge psychological pressure not necessarily direct one: he might known that everyone would compare him with Kershner and that alone could add enormous amount of stress; he witnessed groundbreaking success of Empire and, perhaps, worried a great deal of how to give a splendid account of himself; he had to keep up with the budget and learn aboult great many things; and, sorry, but if someone told me «we are a club and you’re an honorary member. We hope you fit in it»(Carrie) I would get VERY nervous and uncomfortable about the whole thing.  Not just that it was impolite, but it could be discouraging for many people. Marquand noticed «a certain note of warning». Not a very uplifting start. They placed themself like an arrogant higher casta vouchsafing graciously him to be enrolled. I think all that such flossing could accomplish is to interpose a gulf between individuals, not make them closer. Why not just be friendly and appreciational to a new man? As for relationship with George impression of mine was ambiguous: on the one hand, «George was good because throughout, he would say,‘Hey, you’re the director,‘shrug and walk away’»(Marquand) on the other - things like «consider the budget!» and «sometimes I felt bad for Richard, because George would ask to see his shot list. A director usually shows up in the morning with a list of shots he needs and, for some, it’s very private»(editor Dunham). That Marquand didn’t feel (or didn’t want ) to be a puppet in hand of Lucas hints indicate where Rinzler describes disagreement over an issue of using multiple cameras which he felt, in the words of Carol Marquand, was «pettifogging».

Kershner  was maybe psychologically more self-confident cause not only of George being his former disciple, but of realising his significanse for Lucas and the whole production.  Marquand was a SW fan like the rest of us and at the time he, perhaps, stood in awe of Lucas and the whole franchise and felt like touching sanctity. If he showed less veneration and wasn’t bound by this awe, perhaps, Lucas wouldn’t dare to interfere, however it naturally provoked more of participation from him. Would be awesome to learn in detail how did Marquand work on the set but from Rinzler’s account I got onle a vague impression despite many-many pages. It’s unfortunate we don’t have such detailed record as Arnord did with Kershner him having wireless mic attached. I read somewhere in the forum that Richard’s face was stiff as rock and bla-bla-bla, but, seriously, can we judge relying on such a shaky criteria? For me it’s obvious that, taking into account the undeniable fact that director’s personality has the major influence, Kershner was more open, hearty while Marquand was a typical Englishman, indisposed to exaggerated sentiments. But this by no means tells of his indifference or unability to maintain friendly relations with both the actors and the crew. And here’s where the fun begins. Rinzler: «To at least one visiting executive [Reynolds], it was «absolutely clear» that Luvas was calling shots, but allowing Marquand to have the appearance of being the director», «out of respect, he was letting Richard do the directing»(Roffman), «he was a little insecure in his role»(Daniels), «Richard couldn’t grasp it and George was concerned, so he never left»(Watts),«he seemed like a bit of a misfit. He didn’t seem to fit in like Kershner. I think he was kind of discomfited». I suppose this sort of thoughts was intiated by the fact that George simply helped Marquand not that the latter was just an instrument of Lucas. Maybe for someone it looked odd and caused such a misinterpretation. The last quote confirms my assumption that everyone was comparing him with Kersh. But one has to take such observations with a certain grain of salt: even direct witnesses can prove to be inconsistent and inexact especially if emotionally motivated. To continue the subject Hamill felt that «George was more vocal regarding technical matters, such as choice of lenses. All of his input came within the bounds of good tast. He  avoided making Richard feel like he wasn’t the captain of the ship - which he was», «it’s so much a creation of George’s that it’s to Richard’s credit that he’s obviously managed to put his bit into it, too»(Watts). All this very interesting but it would be more interesting how Richard himself felt, not to hear just impressions of others. «Richard was so full of enthusiasm. I don’t think he was disgruntled or anything like that»(Carol Marquand). Wikiarticle on ROTJ says that it’s likely Lucas was the director of the second unit while Marquand was doing «the dirty job» and was assisted by Lucas and indeed in all video clips from the shooting scenes with the principals (I refer to an iBook version of the Rinzler’s book) and the mass scenes we hear Marquand’s voice. Additional 30 minutes of lost footage (Luke and Yoda) found recently confirm that Marquand DID direct actively. In George’s own words, «generally, my participation is maybe one-tenth of what it would be if I were directing. People don’t understand why I can be so relaxed at this stage. I can go out to dinner, take weekends off. It’s such a different life when I’m directing a movie». «Actually George was almost a second unit director. I shot second unit with him quite often» (Hamill).

       As for relations with the actors there’s a mixed bag: certainly to call them «bad» is oversimplifying. Tony Daniels seemed to enjoy Marquand as did Mark who prefered his working method to Kershner’s and who got on well with him right from the start. Belonging to the younger generation of filmmakers Marquand’s working style was different than Kershner’s in  terms of tempo. «Marquand can be fast. He’s certainly not a slow director. He keeps the takes to a fairly low number»(Kazanjian). In this context Carrie and Harrison are the one huge question mark for me. Obviously the former disliked Marquand and the quotes that Rinzler provides speak of her hostility to him. But what’s interesting above all, she spoke not just for herself but for Mark as well and how she wrapped her dissatisfaction looks pretty strange to say the least: «It was like Richard was afraid of Harrison or respected Harrison, but he certainly didn’t respect, as far as I could make out, too many other people He’s [Ford] a movie star in a way that I’m not, in a way that Mark isn’t - and Richard kowtowed to him That was my impression. Maybe I’m wrong». Mark: «I liked Richard very much, he was very personable I was surprised that Carrie had problems. She didn’t share that with me». What the hell? It appears that they even never spoke in privy about impression Marquand made?? Did Carrie never manage to find time to ask  her co-stars: «listen, guys, don’t you think our new director is a complete asshole?». If no, then her «revelations» seems to be dubious since «that was my impression, maybe I’m wrong» really exposes something wrong but not with Marquand. Harrison either «enjoyed» or «didn’t take take to Richard at all»(Barton) - unclear... The point is that everyone on any project seaks to put the head of a project in the wrong making the head responsible even for his/her own faults and another one is that even if a director doesn’t get on well with the cast it doesn’t necessarily mean he/she’s responsive for that. Especially concidering how easily offended and unforgiven women can be if something’s going wrong (from their viewpoint). Now what could cause such reaction on the part of Carrie? Maybe this: «everybody knows they were all off the wall at that point, a lot of drink and drugs and partying. She was at a very low ebb»(Barton)? It was like common truth that Carrie hooked on drugs heavily, so maybe it was one of these clashes between her and Marquand when he might call her over the coals regarding the subject, who knows? Maybe she was jealous of  the fame and attention Harrison was receiving? And yet, even if she disliked Marquand, I would point out to the place in the book where Rinzler writes about critical and public reaction to the realease of the Jedi, how he defended  fervently her and Mark against some harsh attacks.  Maybe instead of blaiming Marquand she should have restrained herself and shown more respect to surrounding members of the set as well as  worked up a more serious approach to her acting in some takes like this one:

Now what interested me much was why he wasn’t to direct Jedi too? It turned out Lucas offered this but Kersh himself got out. The reasons he listed seems contradicting to me:

• It took too long and was too exhausting both physically and emotionally

• He felt doing two for George would be too much and he didn’t wish to be «an employee of Lucas» (Wow, interesting, isn’t it? He considered Lucas a very creative and adored his earlier work, so why in the name of art and talent not to help him more than once? Eventually, he directed not for «thank you» but for being paid/gyven credits and I doubt that doing Empire didn’t result in his bank account increase)
• He didn’t want
• He didn’t believe the script

Considering the last one, what is «didn’t believe the script»? He only mentioned some early draft. Nevertherless, rough and terrible Brackett’s draft of ESB didn’t look to be an obstacle that would force him to exit the project. Rough draft always are just preparatory to be brought into refinement at later stages. Anyway, either you have to choose one credible explanation of your reasons or just say «I got tired», or «SW was a crap» and the like, not all in one. This, however, didn’t stop him from  criricizing Marquand later. Any crititicism is welcomed and Marquand should be criticized in the same way as Kershner and any other pro. However, one should avoid formalistic approach and should always look for what was behind. It’s worth reconstructing the actual course of events affecting Lucas’ decision to choose a new director for Jedi apart his quarrel with DGA. Kershner was a superb old pro, but his approach was too slow as for meeting a schedule. Empire was way beyond the preplanned shooting timeline and this caused catastrophic financial consequences. According to Kershner Lucas approached him with the suggestion to direct the next installment during the period of principal photography when probably he didn’t expect such troubles that occured closer to the end of it. So by the time of post-production George firmly decided Kershner would NOT be asked to reprise his duties in the third chapter. He was determined not to cross the line again. And here’s where paradox pops up: you have either to commit yourself to the art, ignoring financial «banalities» and with all the suffering make the piece of art OR restrict yourself by fiscal matters. We really can’t be out of dilemma of what is better and blame Lucas either. 

Yes, Marquand was not of the same class as Kershner was. «You take a director who’d only done Eye of the Needle, still a young guy who came out of TV...Kersh was an old pro, Kersh just said, ‘been there, done that. I know what to do. And if I don’t understand the visual effects, T’ve got these guys at ILM» (Jim Bloom). Well, first of all Kersh wasn’t and didn’t feel being under pressure. He requested a full freedom and got it. The second, Bloom fails to recognize George’s own flaws of him being a director and the fact that in the sence of pure directing, i.e. actual working with actors in the field of classical dramaturgy his own experience was close to zero that he admitted himself («I’ve never really liked directing»: if you DON’T like doing something, you CAN NOT be a great at that) and knowing all this, I feel that the final look of some of his earlier movies aside of his beloved editing owed to his co-writers (take a look to writing credits of American Grafitti - there were somehow two other writers and according to Kaminsky the final draft of ANH was polished by Lucas’ friends - Kaminsky mentions their names that I don’t recall), assitants and Garry Kurtz, who wasn’t just producer in a mercenary meaning of the word but sort of DA. The third, did Bloom or anyone express openly such an opinion to Lucas or was ILM (and Lucasfilm) even back then a bunch of «yes-men»? So brave are you when the time has passed, huh? Meanwhile, despite the fact that Marquand was «young» (he was older than George by the way) he had MUCH MORE experience (and what’s far more important  - the passion) with directing actors, he called himself «an actors’ director». Could you recall George saying such kind of things? The young age and talent aren’t mutually excluding notions, so what’s wrong with giving directing of SW to a young man? Did they forget how young and inexperienced they all were on the set of the original? Why  nobody of them said exactly the same about George? It looks like an attempt to get Lucas off and put Marquand in the wrong. I watched Eye of the Needle, Jagged Edge and Until September. Watch them too and you’ll understand that Marquand could be awesome, very theatric, profound, romantic and charming and also to introduce much of suspense. And it’s not about how many movies you’ve made but what movies you’ve made. What’s interessting, according to popular beliefs Marquand all but was supressed by George. But as it turns out, initially George desperately wanted to diminish his involvement to minimal possible extent thus gaining opportunity for spending more time with his kids and wife. There’s certain bit of truth that Marquand’s own part was overshadowed by Lucas’ presence, however this was an open secret and later would be given distorted interpretation that grew to be an urban myth. Perhaps the following can explain it all: «we had been meeting daily -<...>, but I had warned him that was the way I wanted to work. I just said,‘Look, George, if I am going to do this properly, you’ve got to give me your time’,<...>you’ve got to be there<...>,you wrote this goddamn thing, so let’s get it right». Perhaps for Marquand, who wasn’t experienced with the visual effects and all that nosh, it was something quite natural and desirable, one that he didn’t look on as «restriction of freedom» and it were biased media and ESB/Kershner’s/Kurtz’s fanboys who’d  demonize the whole thing long after Jedi came out. There’re many things about Lucas’ writing/directing approach I don’t like and there’re also much I agree with Kurtz, but not on Jedi&Marquand matter: I think all we have read the interview where he says that Lucas reportedly was dissatisfied with Kershner in that that he was unable to push around him and impose his will - that’s where this urban myth descended from. Now, when we got our hands on Rinzler’s «Making of ESB» we see that contrary to that Lucas wasn’t intervening and hadn’t any problems with Kersh at all otherwise the latter wouldn’t leave his such a positibe feedback of working with Lucas’ producing capabilities. And if there had ever been some disagreement then it was merely of constructive nature. In fact when Marquand called Kershner the latter said «Lucas will leave you alone, more than any producer you’ve ever worked with» - so that’s what Kershner really thought of work with Lucas, not just what Kurtz said.  Besides, there’s more to why many think of Marquand as of «a hired director»: both in the book and in a rare interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvGrt_B6714  from around that time Marquand said that he prefered original Star Wars style to Kershner’s Empire that he felt was «too excessive» to his taste while describing his own personality as that of «a sentimental, very emotional Welshman» and it feels like he was rather sensitive guy.  If his vision was somewhat similar to Lucas’ it doesn’t automatically mean he tried to «kowtow» Lucas or something, it was just a

 concurrence of opinions. In a bout of rage towards Lucas, some tend to miss that if one agrees with him it doesn’t turn him to a «yes-man». All what I say may appear to you as if I tried to suck Lucas’ ass but I’m just trying to be as much objective as it’s possible because I’m interested in expossing real and deep causes of why did everething moved that direction not the other and so on, because I like cinematic history and I always thought simple-minded «whoever-bashing» is no match for objective critisism. Do not forget: this may be a topic  for endless debate however one thing is certain that can not be ignored regardless of the level of Lucas’ genuine involvement in shooting Jedi: Richard was the one who were doing the most laborous task - directing the principal unit, not Lucas.

I couldn’t decide where it would be better to post this - in a special thread dedicated to Rinzler’s Making of Jedi or in this one but after long thinking decided to post here. Sorry for it being so lengthy, I’ll try to put in a more readable way by dividing it by shorter pieces.

Just finished reading of Rinzler and have mixed feelings. When I turned the last page I got depressed about what was there. And the major part of my frustration regards the figure of Richard Marquand and the swing of things on the set he got involved in. I really felt compassion to the guy. First of all some of rumors that were circulating over the years («was indifferent to Star Wars, didn’t understand the characters» and so on) turned out to be incorrect: he really WAS a SW fan and really wanted to direct the movie, he even called himself Lucas after being told that there was other candidate! The whole issue of his presence and the interaction with the cast and crew seems now to be a matter of pure psychology and not that of directorial mastery. I’m gonna expand this.

It was tough to get on with directing for George for it’s obvious and well-established his background has always been technology and visual aspects. Someone had shoulder the burden.

They label Marquand «inexperienced», having «low-resumed» list, however my impression from reading the book was more complexed. Certain things that occured while filiming were later interpreted in a oversimplified, far-fetched way. Irvin Kershner was quoted most frequantly on the occasion as reportedly saying that his assistant together with George did almost all job and Marquand didn’t get on with actors very well. This quote appears here and there on the Internet and so often that I for a moment got very suspicious about the origin thinking whether it was fake. Now I have to admit I was wrong, the source is Shock Cinema #24, I ordered the issue and still waiting to go through the complete interview. It’s sad that of the directors of the SW movies Kershner and Lucas gained the lion’s share of attention  while Richard still continues to dwell in obscurity. To my mind the godlike approach towards Irvin Kershner looks quite unnatural and superfluous contrary to dismissive one that comes in with Marquand even if Kershner did deserve such panegyric. Surely Kershner was extremely gifted but to make a cult of him is madness. It shows up with even more sharpness especially if we do consider that in Jedi Marquand was under much less favorable conditions than Kersh. First of all (but not the least) it was Lucas’ budget requirement to stay within it - something that wasn’t the key factor when Kersh was directing. Perhaps, human factor of his reputation as George’s mentor, an acknowledged master and his charisma sort of intimidated Lucas preventing the latter from active intervention in the set’s work. Read «Making of Empire» where Lucas sanctioned almost all decisions made by Kersh.

Because it's a way easier sometimes to use this function rather than that of inserting via link which I don't know how it works if I want to place an exact picture I want. Will it be possible?

It was a test of a "copy image" tool of a context menu (from e-net). Too bad it's impossible from computer.

I also read that Carrie went to Norway because she wanted to be with Harrison and her mother wasn't very pleased with that. And besides, according to Rinzler's "Making of  TESB" all 3 principals (Fisher included) arrived at London on Febr. 17 of 1979, with Fisher and Hamill flying to Oslo on Febr. 28. The public reason Fisher claimed at the press-conference was that she wanted to feel the atmosphere of the set. No mention of Sweden. And they had never  planned any scenes with Carrie to be shot in Finse.

EyeShotFirst said:

They just need to tell John Williams to emulate  Mahler, and Stravinsky. 

 Hey, what's wrong with these? Listen to OT soundtrack and the influence is obvious already (Prob Droid, Luke's rescue from Bespin and many-many other scenes). Mahler was post-Wagnerian romanticist composing with a very complex dense and elaborate approach including all possible sub genres of the era (even street music). Stravinsky's neoclassic + Mahler's complexity = Star Wars sound. No need to "emulate" them. All's about story  - not about William's talent to wrap it up.

One more thing: why Captain Needa had to come to Vader for a direct report  instead of using hologram connection with him, like the captains of other ships (see earlier scenes of asteroid chase) and adm. Ozzel did ? Vader would successfully use his Force shock remotely with equal ease. Is this blooper or what?

ScruffyNerfHerder said:

 

If memory serves, Vader is trying to keep Solo from doing anything rash. With Leia there, Han has to comply lest she be hurt. Solo also tells Chewie to stop fighting and protect the princess on his behalf. Now Chewie too is under Vader’s control. 

 

 Now I hit upon idea:(1) the entire scene of the last kiss could happen in the cell where they were imprisoned with Lando saying THERE that Han was about to be frozen and then separating them (2) or they could take just him away telling "no a word and a blow unless you wish we worked over your beloved princess and the wookie, make your shaggy friend be manageable, ok?" How is this?

it's only 3 pages on my computers's layout.

SilverWook said:

Mavericks said:

SilverWook said:.

2. Arguably, the trash compactor system is automated. Otherwise, somebody would have overridden Artoo's ability to shut it down, let alone open the hatc

The homing beacon plan could have been hatched and implemented only a short time before the gang got back to the docking bay. The ship was lightly guarded, and the troops present didn't interrupt Vader's duel. Those particular troops may have been the only ones with specific instructions not to hit anything.

 Hmm, this assumption rests on shaky ground: the scene in the novel Star wars where Vader said that he was going to arrange the company's reunion with the princess preceded one in the trash compactor. One could guess the same sequence was predetermined for ANH. Automated compaction didn't fit the logic of the imperials trying to capture or terminate them.

 I wouldn't take anything in the novels as written in stone.

Maybe that could be a point with EU, but  I'm talking of George Lucas'es/A.D.Foster's novel "Star Wars" upon which ANH was based and the two subsequent novelizations written after the drafts of ESB and ROTJ. Always used to think these belonged to the official  LFL approved canon.

sasuke said:

How could the supergiant military station of 180 km diameter reduce to dust a cosmic body that is hundredfold the station itself?

E = m c^2

Converting even a small fraction of its mass into energy would be sufficient.

 Ok, let's assume I accepted this explanation. But some inconsistency still left: in James Kahn novelization the Emperor gives the instruction to DS 2 chief commander in case the rebels destroy the shield to blast Endor turning DS to it. And this looked quite utopian because if DS 2 managed somehow to destroy the giant planet then DS itself together with the Emperor would be cindered with the enormous hit of detonated body, wouldn't it?

SilverWook said:.

2. Arguably, the trash compactor system is automated. Otherwise, somebody would have overridden Artoo's ability to shut it down, let alone open the hatc

The homing beacon plan could have been hatched and implemented only a short time before the gang got back to the docking bay. The ship was lightly guarded, and the troops present didn't interrupt Vader's duel. Those particular troops may have been the only ones with specific instructions not to hit anything.

 Hmm, this assumption rests on shaky ground: the scene in the novel Star wars where Vader said that he was going to arrange the company's reunion with the princess preceded one in the trash compactor. One could guess the same sequence was predetermined for ANH. Automated compaction didn't fit the logic of the imperials trying to capture or terminate them.

Hmm, my post for some reason contains image defects. To see the shaded line you should mark it with the pointer. 

I know this may sound stupid as it was said countless times that SW is not sci-fi, but just fantasy, and that there's no blasts sounds in space etc. However several plot's turns have captured my attention and aroused the following question that would be entertaining to hear your answers to, namely:

1. A NEW HOPE: the very beginning. Leia's ship is boarded by the Imperial cruiser. C3PO and R2D2 have managed to hide in some module of the Blockade Runner. We see that the princess was able to do this too, that's why she was able  to put into R2 the diskette with DS plans. Question: why she didn't take an occasion to escape in the lifeboat together with the droids?

2. Tarkin (after the Solo's ship jumped to hyperspace) asked Vader if the homing beacon was secured  on the board of the Falcon adding he took a big risk to fall back on Vader's plan. From this one could draw a conclusion of planned escape, some kind of covert operation organized by design in an attempt to locate the secret Rebel Base. That's ok. But then why they tried to kill Luke, Han, Leia & Chewy in the trash compactor turning on the ramming? I can accept the idea that "the betters" were ready to sacrifice the lives of thousands of poor stormtroopers to  create illusion of  a "chase". But if they were, then what if the stormtroopers succeeded? What's where my confusion comes from for I can't get whether Tarkin&Vader were planning to kill them or to trace them?

Regarding SW presented technologies:

3. The old good debate on "what was the size of DS I&II". There were numerous mathematical attempts to unveil this "secret" even using spheric trigonometry and other maths tools and methodology. However  my approach to the problem is quite simplier: the official SW databank claims  (measured in km, the diameter) 120 for the DS I and  180 for the DS II. At first glance it's WOW. But, guys, think again: both figures is not very giant, in fact a very small for a superweapon capable of destroying entire PLANETS and we're talking not about big asteroids, planetoids or planetesimals. 120&180 km which are diameters, not even radiuses, conforms well to ordinary distances between two cities on the Earth. And even if to take into account the spherical diameters then these DSs were very small. Our planet belongs to the group of the small planets, nevertheless its diameter is being estimated as much as 18 000 (EIGHTEEN THOUSAND) km. How could the supergiant military station of 180 km diameter reduce to dust a cosmic body that is hundredfold the station itself? In James Kahn's novelization of ROTJ Endor was reckoned among the giant planets. I don't know what was meant by this, but if to extrapolate this to our Solar system then the only example it could satisfy is Jupiter: equatorial radius - 71 492 km, polar - 66 854 km. What size MUST any of Death Stars be to blast such a planet? The other aspect: the horizon line curvature. We're too small comparing to the gargantuan Earth's size for the eye to embrace the whole planet. When spaceship approaches it the eyes of astronauts see the edge line of the Earth (as well as that of any huge cosmic body) deforming gradually depending on the extent of the ship's distance  towards the planet at every moment and when the ship lands the curvature is 0  - it becomes a straight line. Now we were shown that effect clearly observed from the board of the Falcon and ESPECIALLY a X-WING approaching DS (Yavin and Endor battles). As the battles raged on all the pilots were able to see the surface being flat for the most of the time only slightly curving  when performing banked turns and other aerobatics. An opinion was spoke out that the DS II actual size had to be  about 900 km, however even this non-impressing number wasn't taken seriously. The first I saw SW I thought DS have to be of the planetary size. Not 120 km, but 120 000 or at least 12 000 km, DS II (twice as large as DS I) 240 000 or 24 000 km with the former numbers being more adequate (I'm serious) to the Imperial super technology that appears as described both in the movies and books. Then of course such a station could easily destroy the giant planet of Endor.   

4. The explosion of DS II at the end of ROTJ. Well, the point is that if the station really exploded in close proximity to Endor its shatters - again considering its enormous parameters and the huge freed energy flow - would cause a global cataclysm on the planet sweeping away the majority of all life forms resulting in catastrophic climate changes, floods and earthquakes.

So, please, feel free to share your thoughts ))

Just watched ANH v.2.5 for the second time. Do you mind if we discuss some "changes" to "Specialized" Edition? 

You'll need torrents or Jdownloader to download these movies. Go to the very 1st post in this thread, here you'll see links to tehparadox.com (download via jDownloader) and myspleen.org(com? don't remember - download via torrents)  You'll need to create accounts in order to get access to the data which is links in a raw plain text form. The rest depends on which the way from the aforementioned two you choose to perform the action. After it's complete you'll get .rar files ( or a single file of combined former separate .rar files) that you should unpack so that unpacker (unarchiver) combined them. To unpack them you'll have to enter the password that is provided in the 1st post. These files are in .mkv format, so you'll need a media player that would be capable of playing them (VLC is the best one I can recommend.) If you feel uncertain of how to accomplish that regarding details I strongly urge you to write to the member HanDuet, he's nice guy, is ready to help and was great explaining me "how to". 

Interesting will be the version 3 of Despecialzed ANH? And what version is the ultimate goal (of all 3 installations)?

Mielr said:

Mavericks said:


And one more thing: why "I love you - I know" was "a comic relief"? There wasn't any "laugh-out-loud" feeling about the whole scene.

Really???

Yeah.

I'm not saying this applies to you, but sometimes, people for whom English is not their first language have also expressed their confusion as to why the line is considered funny (and trust me, I'm not the only person who thinks it's funny...at least I don't think I am!)

 Though English isn't my first language I'm knacky enough in mastering it, it being almost my 2nd native and to the degree when I'm able to understand slightest nuances of its idiomaticity (although the lack of live practice is disturbing). Don't forget that in most cases both thinking and logic are similar among many nations of Europe and America, so it's absolutely possible for any Russian, Lithuanian, German, Serbian, French, Italian, Bulgarian,Spaniard, Latino etc etc etc to figure out what sub-context the English-speaker imports . In this sense the reaction to "I love you - I know" being affective and not laughable is a matter not of nationality dimming the inner essence  but of individual perception. I think this is what appears to be near the reality otherwise there wouldn't be so many fans of the line not only in US/UK but also outside. And on the other side I know that many non-English speaking people had the same type of reaction as you did.

The humor doesn't translate because it's funny not in a literal sense, but because it's not expected. The obvious reply would have been "I love you too". But when he replies "I know" he's basically saying "of course you love me! I'm totally irresistible!", showing his narcissism. It's also funny because he's possibly about to die...but his huge ego still won't allow him to admit he loves Leia

Again, this is a personal preference. Obvious reply could be that  but it would be a commonplace. This classic echoing is an established tradition, cliche that doesn't always work  (sometimes it's necessary though depending on the plot, development and so on). I personally don't like such "obvious" things. To have him say "I know" was smth extraordinary, not seen before. One doesn't have to mirror other's "I love you" to express his/her feelings. Han showed us enough  what his feelings towards Leia were (his anger she didn't acknowledged her sympathy to him resulted in their quarrel on Hoth, the Falcon kiss scene, his awe when he saw her in Bespin just before the trap dressed in conformity with the fashion he had never seen her doing anytime earlier). For me it was obvious that Han loved Leia as well as the opposite. Han was "an old soldier", a SMUGGLER who never spoke the words of love, he perhaps felt it like exposing his "weakness" . So when Ford decided to play with it he demonstrated full understanding of his character.

As for the line itself consider the novelization by D. Gluth who obviously was given the version of the draft that reflected some stage (one of the latest ones) of its readjustment. Here Han says: "Just don't forget this when I come back". Then he became serious and gently kissed her forehead. She dashed away tears and Han without ruffle of excitement turned back and stepped into the platform. Sorry if this isn't exact quote as I'm doing translation on my own from my native language in which it was published in the place where I live ) 

EPISODE 4 is the version 2.5. EPISODES 5&6 are the version 1.0. That's why I asked  - based on my knowledge that further versions of EPISODES 5&6 in process - whether the latest ones are available. And still wondering when THESE will be. 

When the latest versions of the Despecialized ESB and ROTJ will be available?

imperialscum said:

As much as I love ESB, it is actually refreshing to see some deviation from the usual "ESB is perfect" attitude.

 Exactly. Nothing's perfect.

...with the 2 different ways: Leia turns her back to Solo and - after the rescue from Jabba and enormous efforts, balancing on the edge of death -  falls in love with Luke, which would be rather annoying and stubborn move, even worse that PT  and in a fashion of a shoddy mexican soap opera; other possibility - Leia stays with Han, maybe gets married him, while Luke turns Dark Side and we have the stepping stone to episode 7 (and eventually 8&9) :DDDDDDDDDDD Smth bad is with the Skywalkers, they every time seem to not stand against the Dark Side, so the Chosen One could have Solo surname :DDD Just SW humor 

imperialscum said:

 But there is only some evidence of love triangle in ANH. In ESB it pretty much disappears. There is this kiss scene but the context was different (ie Liea just did to shut up Han... she could kiss Chewie with the same affect). The triangle from ANH was broken in ESB with obvious indications that Liea prefers Han and was then completely shattered by Leia proclaiming her love to Han in the very scene that is a subject of discussion now.

The situation with the "love triangle" is quite interesting ) While after ANH the viewer expected Luke+Leia, even here were chirk moments what from nowadays perspective looks like the princess was seduced more by Solo -  despite him deserving the image of "mercenary" -  than Luke (haha, when Solo attacked stormtroopers alone and melted into thin air Leia exclaimed enthusiastically :"He's brave!" with some sort of twinkle), and to be honest I intuitively felt this was going to have continuation :)))

Well, I have to say that ROTJ Han/Leia arc worked pretty well for me, I loved ROTJ as needed relief after darkness of ESB and was glad to know that nothing stands in a way of their love )) as it could be if Luke wasn't positioned as Leia's brother. So, in spite of whatever motivation Lucas had behind making a plot of ROTJ I agree with the version we saw (had no problems with the Ewoks either, btw). The only thing I feel could have been included is a brief wedding ceremony of Han and Leia. Was it supposed at least?

And one more thing: why "I love you - I know" was "a comic relief"? There wasn't any "laugh-out-loud" feeling about the whole scene. I was deeply shocked (in a positive sense) and deeply impressed when the princess revealed her love to  Han, not Luke. After all Han was a handsome guy with Harrison Ford-like appearance ))), and it was so unusual when one of two main characters falls in love with someone who isn't the other main character (if to assume that the whole saga is about Skywalker family), but such a scoundrel, who breaks rules and brings flush of a fresh air. It would be so boring if Lucas and Co followed traditional path of Hollywood movie-making: Luke was too disciplined, too idealistic and so was Leia so that needed to be diluted ;) However, one should note that regardless of what could improve development of characters, it's quite obvious that the crash Fisher had on Ford (and the impression that she still has :D), had MUCH to do with screen-writers or/and directors to pair them ON-screen ) And it was excellent. 

LexX said:

Did they really need trash compactor scene in SW?

Did they really need TIE Fighter chase in SW?

Did they really need asteroid chase in TESB?

Did they really need Sarlacc battle in ROTJ?

Did they really need to make the films?

No.

 No need to exaggerate. You missed the point of the question. They needed trash compactor scene - it was the only way to escape the prison block AA-23. Yes, they need TIE fighter chase because Grand Moff Tarkin had to create illusion of them successfully escaping the Death Star I in order to trace them to the hidden Rebel Base and after all in a film that has such title you'd expect to see a lot of starship battles and alike stuff, otherwise it would be strange indeed. Yes, they needed asteroid chase, because it directly followed from the context of words of General Reekan that considering such intense asteroid activity it would make it extremely difficult to detect any approaching ship. Yes, they needed to make Sarlacc battle because such cruel offering fitted Jabba's medieval barbaric style and plus added maximum of logically justified emotional tension. In contrast, the podrace scene in PM, droid factory sequence and Geonosis arena sacrifice scene that seemed like silly imitation of Sarlacc's one could have been easily omitted - the whole story wouldn't have suffered. A main demanding to a movie is that certain course of events would follow inner logic of dramatic composition. Hence where Kershner's and Ford's preoccupation came from.