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Master Lawdog

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13-Oct-2018
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8-May-2024
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Post
#1277750
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

SilverWook said:

You’d think they would have a database of all SW titles just so this doesn’t happen?

At the very least, I would think someone at Lucasfilm would at least check to make sure there isn’t some obscure thing out there already called The Phantom Menace, or Attack Of The Clones, the owners of which who could sue them later?

Ehh…it doesn’t really matter all that much. A title is just a title. The best thing to do is to create the title that you think best suits the entirety and meaning of your feature film.

Post
#1277747
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Fang Zei said:

I want to say there was a Star Wars novel with that title as well, but that could be my memory playing tricks on me.

There was one. I also have a novel that was released as promotion for Revenge of the Sith’s release about Obi-Wan beginning his exile on Tatooine called, “The Last of the Jedi”.


Post
#1277483
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

pleasehello said:

nl0428 said:

bromeo said:

If TROS is truly amazing, could The Last Jedi become sort of Attack of the Clones for binge-watching? I wonder if you can enjoy 4, 5, 3, 6, 7, 9 without losing too much of the story? Probably a futile thought because we have amazing edits already available which make 8 quite enjoyable.

I don’t think so. I believe that The Last Jedi is a very important entry to the series in story. In terms of making an impact on the franchise, I would say that it’s the second most important Star Wars film.

Define “important”

There are two ways of defining the importance of The Last Jedi. Both the impact and the story.

The reason why the story is important is because, just like how The Empire Strikes Back took Luke, Han, Leia and Vader to new directions, The Last Jedi took Rey, Ben and Luke to the same direction.

The biggest weakness that is found within Rey is how she clings onto the past, believing that her parents may return someday. She learns that she must move forward and understand that returning to Jakku only to wait for them will not change a thing in her life, despite the fact that she’s already known that her parents were unimportant, despite holding onto hope that the truth she believes is incorrect. Now she understands her place and how to move on.

Ben’s biggest weakness is that he is holding onto the hatred and anger towards his childhood, past and family that had built up in him as Snoke continued to corrupt and manipulate his mind. While his goal of “letting the past die” is where he needs to strive towards, he is not going about it in the right direction. The only act of moving in the direction he needs to be striving towards that he committed as of now is murdering Snoke. He had put an end to the reason why his childhood became more dark and lonely as he grew older, and he saw this as Snoke had berated him, connected him and Rey through the Force, and tortured Rey. However, unlike Rey, he hasn’t let go of his past feelings quite as much as she has. He still doesn’t trust his family and the people he grew up with. This is why he wants to rule the Galaxy with Rey, and he never wanted to become the Supreme Leader either. He only took upon the role to save himself from the First Order. By the end, while he may have failed, he has still been given a chance of redemption from Luke and Rey.

Luke’s growth in the film came from his role as a Jedi Master. While he may have been a hero at the end of Return of the Jedi, that doesn’t necessarily mean that characters stay as the same person over a large amount of time. As Luke grew more older and carried out Yoda’s words of “passing on what he had learned”, he started his Jedi Academy. Luke, while wise in the Force, still had areas that he needed to grow in, such as his role of becoming a teacher and an uncle. From what was seen, it can be inferred that just like Han and Leia, Luke may have been more impatient with Ben than his sister and brother-in-law. He struggled as an uncle in helping to raise his uncle. When he saw the darkness in Ben, his first instinct, that he nearly committed was to kill him. Even though the situation between him and Ben is different between him and Vader, Luke is now put into a different role. He is now the older guardian above Ben, whereas he was younger than Anakin. Now that Luke had taken on the role of a Jedi Master, he had come to a knew way of thinking as a both a Jedi, and as a person. Once he had realized what he had done by taking out his lightsaber, Ben acted on self-defense and committed to Snoke’s mentoring teachings. All of this couldn’t’ve have happened if Luke had decided to spend more quality time with his nephew and help train him, to take on a responsible, yet caring role as an uncle. The first telling of the story he told Rey, I assure was the version of the story he told Han and Leia before going into hiding. Luke had gone into hiding and closed himself off from the Force due to failing his nephew, his sister and brother-in-law, and as a Jedi. It isn’t until Rey and Yoda are able to help convince him where to grow as a person, and especially as a Jedi. The scene with Yoda is a prime example of character growth, as is Ben smashing his mask. By projecting himself through the Force on Crait and saving the Resistance, yet also confronting his fallen nephew once more, Luke had come back from all of the guilt and shame that had clouded over him and had become even more stronger than he already once was, as well as projecting himself. Luke soon gave his life to become one with the Force, understanding that he had now played his role, and understanding that it is time for Leia, Rey and Ben to finish what he had started. Very much like how Timothy Zahn had described in Spectre in the Past, “If Luke’s own current level of knowledge was any indication, Yoda could surely have defeated the Emperor all by himself. Yet he’d chosen instead to leave that task to Luke and the Rebel Alliance.” Luke has now taken upon the role Yoda once did in the Original Trilogy.

As for the impact the film made, I believe that it introduced many new concepts within character growth, maturity and development, as well as deeper storytelling and more additions to the Star Wars mythology. I think these quotes from Rian Johnson in an interview with Los Angeles Times says it all.

“It’s fun because it’s kind of thinking, ‘OK, outside of the Skywalker story and outside of the recognizable iconography, what is this? What is “Star Wars”?’ Or what do we need to retain from that, to pull forward for it to still be ‘Star Wars’ — and what can we leave behind?”

“They’re all the big questions that need to be thought of. And even the ones that we don’t know the answers to are things we need to figure out if ‘Star Wars’ is going to be vital and alive moving forward and not just be a waxworks. We’re going to have to figure out how to tell vital new stories.”

"When people ask me, ‘Don’t you think people are going to get sick of ‘Star Wars’ movies?’ to me that question indicates that they’re thinking of ‘Star Wars’ movies as a museum exhibit that is wheeled out once a year so you can say, ‘Oh, I loved that thing. Oh, I remember that thing!’ And yes, if ‘Star Wars’ is that, people are going to get sick of it really quickly.

“But if ‘Star Wars’ are great new movies that are exciting and fresh, and that challenge you and surprise you and make you feel things and engage you the way that those original movies did — but always taking you to new places, both in the galaxy and emotionally — that’s never going to get old. That’s what it’s all about.”

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-et-mn-star-wars-the-last-jedi-rian-johnson-20180403-story.html

However you think of how I interpreted Episode VIII, you may agree or disagree. That’s the fun of film fandom, we all have our likes and dislikes of different properties. We all have our opinions.

Post
#1277452
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

bromeo said:

If TROS is truly amazing, could The Last Jedi become sort of Attack of the Clones for binge-watching? I wonder if you can enjoy 4, 5, 3, 6, 7, 9 without losing too much of the story? Probably a futile thought because we have amazing edits already available which make 8 quite enjoyable.

I don’t think so. I believe that The Last Jedi is a very important entry to the series in story. In terms of making an impact on the franchise, I would say that it’s the second most important Star Wars film.

Post
#1277437
Topic
Star Wars trilogy box sets coming next year?
Time

One of the things that I love about film franchises receiving DVD and Blu-Ray releases are some of the gorgeous box sets that the studios put together. They can be pricy, but still nice. The Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter have some great box sets with great artwork too. I would love it if Lucasfilm puts out a nine film box set of all three trilogies, each film with their own artwork, and nearly every behind the scene extra, featurette, documentary, and all the deleted scenes are released on the set as well. It was a real shame that the Blu-ray releases of the prequels didn’t include upscaled versions of the superior deleted scenes released with their DVD releases.

Post
#1277382
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

SilverWook said:

nl0428 said:

SilverWook said:

Are we all forgetting how the EU brought Palpatine back more times than Jason Voorhees? And if we look to one of Lucas’ inspirations, Flash Gordon, Ming The Merciless always survives somehow to menace another day.

There was even a fan edit around here where Palpatine was going to survive ROTJ. Don’t know if it was ever finished.

The old Expanded Universe were wiped away from canon for some pretty good reasons. One of those being the cloning of familiar characters. Ever since George Lucas introduced the concept of cloning in Attack of the Clones, some writers have written some pretty silly stories.

There is, of course, the army of clones Palpatine had archived that became a threat to Luke after Return of the Jedi, and there are the evil clones Luke had as well. Their names were “Luuke”, and “Luuuke”. And let’s also not forget about the clones Vader made of Starkiller in The Force Unleashed II.

Whatever Lucasfilm does with Palpatine’s role in The Rise of Skywalker, it will be much more well written and better told for how Palpatine returns. Whether he survived, or he is a Dark Side Force spirit, we’ll see what happens this December. It will also be exciting to see that Palpatine will not only be a threat to Rey, but a threat to Ben as well.

I think Marvel cornered the market on clone saturation long before Lucasfilm did. 😉

If Thrawn can be plucked from the EU and used in Rebels, than ideas can be cherry picked from it as well?

True, but Star Wars is not Marvel. Also, Thrawn being used in Rebels is a way where things from the old Expanded Universe can work well within the context of the narrative. I personally believe that future Star Wars content should stay away from cloning. Keeping it strictly during the Clone Wars is the way to do it.

Post
#1277363
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

SilverWook said:

Are we all forgetting how the EU brought Palpatine back more times than Jason Voorhees? And if we look to one of Lucas’ inspirations, Flash Gordon, Ming The Merciless always survives somehow to menace another day.

There was even a fan edit around here where Palpatine was going to survive ROTJ. Don’t know if it was ever finished.

The old Expanded Universe were wiped away from canon for some pretty good reasons. One of those being the cloning of familiar characters. Ever since George Lucas introduced the concept of cloning in Attack of the Clones, some writers have written some pretty silly stories.

There is, of course, the army of clones Palpatine had archived that became a threat to Luke after Return of the Jedi, and there are the evil clones Luke had as well. Their names were “Luuke”, and “Luuuke”. And let’s also not forget about the clones Vader made of Starkiller in The Force Unleashed II.

Whatever Lucasfilm does with Palpatine’s role in The Rise of Skywalker, it will be much more well written and better told for how Palpatine returns. Whether he survived, or he is a Dark Side Force spirit, we’ll see what happens this December. It will also be exciting to see that Palpatine will not only be a threat to Rey, but a threat to Ben as well.

Post
#1277345
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

NeverarGreat said:

With the Knights of Ren apparently actual characters in this, I assume that the TIE attacking Rey is piloted by such a Knight since it’s quite clearly not Kylo’s design.

It’s just that a lot of people are assuming it’s Kylo in that TIE, which I don’t see at all.

JEDIT: As for bringing Palpatine back in some capacity, I don’t hate it, and have argued in the past that it makes a lot of sense to have the big bad from the first six episodes cast a shadow long enough to cover the entire saga.

If you match the interior shot of the cockpit in the trailer with the cockpit image of Kylo Ren that was revealed at the panel, you’ll see how they match up.

Post
#1277248
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DominicCobb said:

nl0428 said:

pleasehello said:

Anchorhead said:

Digging this shot of Ms Tran. I’m really hoping she has a more substantial, adult roll in this. She looks great here and appears to have a more important roll in-universe.

Glad they did something different with her hair, she looks like a different person in this photo. And it’s fitting that you should use the term “adult”, as I thought her character in TLJ did come off as somewhat puerile.

I was fine with Rose in The Last Jedi. I think making her character act more mature is good, as it shows character growth and maturity.

She was already pretty mature in her own way in TLJ, but there was certainly a level of innocence and inexperience to her character. She went through a lot in TLJ and it’ll be interesting to see what her place in the Resistance is now (considering she started out as just an engineer).

You are right about that.

Post
#1277230
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

SilverWook said:

nl0428 said:

pleasehello said:

nl0428 said:

ZkinandBonez said:

pleasehello said:

Guess who’s back!

Since they’re apparently going to visit the wreck of the DS2, I’m guessing Palpatine might appear as either a Force Ghost, or more likely, as some kind of Force Vision. Might be similar to the Thrawn trilogy where the death of the Emperor left behind an imprint in the Force.

Or Lucasfilm could just be messing with us in the trailer. Wouldn’t technically be the first time.

Both Death Stars blew up. There was concept art for The Force Awakens of the second Death Star underwater, but they scrapped it. It seems like they could potentially be returning to those ideas, but it also seems a bit odd because the Death Star blew up in space.

Well, it blew up orbiting Endor. So it’s not out of the realm of possibility that fragments fell to the moon’s surface. Which would also suggest that the forest setting that was shown in a couple of the promo photos might indeed be the forests of Endor.

There is no way that the planet the station is on is Endor. It looks like a different planet.

According to the two Ewok movies, Endor has other types of terrain…

JEDIT:Debris from the explosion could also have landed on another planet in the system?

I think we can acknowledge that the Ewok movies are no longer canon, and Disney doesn’t consider them canon either. But they could pull from old forgotten material such as this.

Post
#1277180
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

pleasehello said:

Anchorhead said:

Digging this shot of Ms Tran. I’m really hoping she has a more substantial, adult roll in this. She looks great here and appears to have a more important roll in-universe.

Glad they did something different with her hair, she looks like a different person in this photo. And it’s fitting that you should use the term “adult”, as I thought her character in TLJ did come off as somewhat puerile.

I was fine with Rose in The Last Jedi. I think making her character act more mature is good, as it shows character growth and maturity.

Post
#1277151
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

pleasehello said:

nl0428 said:

pleasehello said:

nl0428 said:

pleasehello said:

nl0428 said:

ZkinandBonez said:

pleasehello said:

Guess who’s back!

Since they’re apparently going to visit the wreck of the DS2, I’m guessing Palpatine might appear as either a Force Ghost, or more likely, as some kind of Force Vision. Might be similar to the Thrawn trilogy where the death of the Emperor left behind an imprint in the Force.

Or Lucasfilm could just be messing with us in the trailer. Wouldn’t technically be the first time.

Both Death Stars blew up. There was concept art for The Force Awakens of the second Death Star underwater, but they scrapped it. It seems like they could potentially be returning to those ideas, but it also seems a bit odd because the Death Star blew up in space.

Well, it blew up orbiting Endor. So it’s not out of the realm of possibility that fragments fell to the moon’s surface. Which would also suggest that the forest setting that was shown in a couple of the promo photos might indeed be the forests of Endor.

There is no way that the planet the station is on is Endor. It looks like a different planet.

Possible, but the Death Star remains being anywhere else would make no sense at all. Then again J.J. Abrams has demonstrated time and again that he doesn’t know (or maybe just doesn’t care) how outer space works.

I trust Kathleen Kennedy, J.J. Abrams, Rian Johnson and the others at Lucasfilm in what they’re doing. Whatever happens with the Death Star’s destruction and Palpatine’s return, I’ll describe what I think when I see the movie. I won’t judge based on the trailer alone.

Okay, I’m not judging. Just saying that Endor makes the most logical sense. You’re the one who insisted that “there is no way” that planet is Endor.

Endor is a forest moon. This looks like a different planet. It has a large ocean and a field. Also, is Jedha in this film? They shot it in Jordan.

Post
#1277145
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Mocata said:

nl0428 said:

Mocata said:

The title is bad and Lando wearing his Solo outfit is weird. Other than that… eh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klH2F08hp_A

I don’t know what this means or why it gets posted. Is it always you that posts it? I don’t get it.

Because win a goldfish here, man!

Post
#1277143
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

pleasehello said:

nl0428 said:

pleasehello said:

nl0428 said:

ZkinandBonez said:

pleasehello said:

Guess who’s back!

Since they’re apparently going to visit the wreck of the DS2, I’m guessing Palpatine might appear as either a Force Ghost, or more likely, as some kind of Force Vision. Might be similar to the Thrawn trilogy where the death of the Emperor left behind an imprint in the Force.

Or Lucasfilm could just be messing with us in the trailer. Wouldn’t technically be the first time.

Both Death Stars blew up. There was concept art for The Force Awakens of the second Death Star underwater, but they scrapped it. It seems like they could potentially be returning to those ideas, but it also seems a bit odd because the Death Star blew up in space.

Well, it blew up orbiting Endor. So it’s not out of the realm of possibility that fragments fell to the moon’s surface. Which would also suggest that the forest setting that was shown in a couple of the promo photos might indeed be the forests of Endor.

There is no way that the planet the station is on is Endor. It looks like a different planet.

Possible, but the Death Star remains being anywhere else would make no sense at all. Then again J.J. Abrams has demonstrated time and again that he doesn’t know (or maybe just doesn’t care) how outer space works.

I trust Kathleen Kennedy, J.J. Abrams, Rian Johnson and the others at Lucasfilm in what they’re doing. Whatever happens with the Death Star’s destruction and Palpatine’s return, I’ll describe what I think when I see the movie. I won’t judge based on the trailer alone.

Post
#1277128
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

pleasehello said:

nl0428 said:

ZkinandBonez said:

pleasehello said:

Guess who’s back!

Since they’re apparently going to visit the wreck of the DS2, I’m guessing Palpatine might appear as either a Force Ghost, or more likely, as some kind of Force Vision. Might be similar to the Thrawn trilogy where the death of the Emperor left behind an imprint in the Force.

Or Lucasfilm could just be messing with us in the trailer. Wouldn’t technically be the first time.

Both Death Stars blew up. There was concept art for The Force Awakens of the second Death Star underwater, but they scrapped it. It seems like they could potentially be returning to those ideas, but it also seems a bit odd because the Death Star blew up in space.

Well, it blew up orbiting Endor. So it’s not out of the realm of possibility that fragments fell to the moon’s surface. Which would also suggest that the forest setting that was shown in a couple of the promo photos might indeed be the forests of Endor.

There is no way that the planet the station is on is Endor. It looks like a different planet.

Post
#1277112
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

ZkinandBonez said:

pleasehello said:

Guess who’s back!

Since they’re apparently going to visit the wreck of the DS2, I’m guessing Palpatine might appear as either a Force Ghost, or more likely, as some kind of Force Vision. Might be similar to the Thrawn trilogy where the death of the Emperor left behind an imprint in the Force.

Or Lucasfilm could just be messing with us in the trailer. Wouldn’t technically be the first time.

Both Death Stars blew up. There was concept art for The Force Awakens of the second Death Star underwater, but they scrapped it. It seems like they could potentially be returning to those ideas, but it also seems a bit odd because the Death Star blew up in space.