Master Lawdog

TavorX said:

Some movie “guru” guy from Collider Video. Personally found him annoying. Pretty much all the Collider Video people seem likely Disney apologists. It’s not exactly a personal ding against them, as who wouldn’t talk exceedingly positive about pretty much anything Disney does and get paid for it. Just means it’s not a group of people I’d like to have dialogue with or listen to their take on anything Star Wars related.

Not to get off topic, but I recently stopped following Collider’s content after Kristian Harloff left. Didn’t like the changes that were happening over there.

DominicCobb said:

nl0428 said:

John Campea stood correct on that The Mandalorian would be the most pirated show of all time. Just think about how fans in other countries outside the U.S. feel about this considering that Disney+ is exclusive in America.

Don’t know who that is, but I think pretty much anyone could have predicted that.

This is John Campea. A very active film pundit in the movie community online.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbGblO4JcCY

John Campea stood correct on that The Mandalorian would be the most pirated show of all time. Just think about how fans in other countries outside the U.S. feel about this considering that Disney+ is exclusive in America.

This might be off topic, but exactly how do you download a movie or show from Disney+? I got it on launch day and I’m still trying to figure out how to download a movie or show to my PC.

The problem that I have with the Disney+ color remasters is that the teal is slightly noticeable, the picture looks a bit too dark, and the colors are desaturated in some places. Most evidently with Tatooine’s sand in A New Hope.

This part from Oliver Harper’s review of the 4K UHD Blu-ray of Batman (1989) is a perfect explanation of 4K HDR Blu-ray remasters.

https://youtu.be/zkgLzxiaUA4?t=644

I don’t know about anyone here, but I feel like the colors in the 4K Disney+ versions of the Original Trilogy do look a bit similar to the Despecialized Editions in color grading. The only difference I can see is that the Disney+ versions are a slight bit darker than Harmy’s versions.

44rh1n said:

I’ve hated the alteration of colors for various other 4K HDR versions, though. I guess it just depends on the film for me.

Batman (1989) and Terminator 2 have some of the most damaging 4K remasters I’ve seen.

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

nl0428 said:

pat man said:

nl0428 said:

pat man said:

nl0428 said:

If anyone here went to go see the 3D release of The Phantom Menace, please tell me what the master and color grading looked like. Did it look like the 2011 Blu-ray, or this new Disney+ version?

I didn’t see the 3d release. But skimming through the movies the Prequels are just upscaled Blu-ray. I.e. nasty teal shift in Aotc.

I seriously would like to understand why people who do 4K HDR remasters have such a love for adding unappealing teal filters to their older films. Especially when it’s not the accurate color grading the movie had when released.

Make them look like modern films.

It really doesn’t, it just ruins the original look of the film and almost looks like it’s done by someone to try to modernize something by its look, when you don’t need to do something as unnecessary as that, as these classics will remain timeless and continue to stand the test of time by their quality.

Preaching to the choir. You asked why, and he told you what the revisionist colorists are motivated by.

I know. I’m just saying that if this continues to happen with more classics, I’ll gladly avoid 4K releases and stick with regular Blu-rays.

pat man said:

nl0428 said:

pat man said:

nl0428 said:

If anyone here went to go see the 3D release of The Phantom Menace, please tell me what the master and color grading looked like. Did it look like the 2011 Blu-ray, or this new Disney+ version?

I didn’t see the 3d release. But skimming through the movies the Prequels are just upscaled Blu-ray. I.e. nasty teal shift in Aotc.

I seriously would like to understand why people who do 4K HDR remasters have such a love for adding unappealing teal filters to their older films. Especially when it’s not the accurate color grading the movie had when released.

Make them look like modern films.

It really doesn’t, it just ruins the original look of the film and almost looks like it’s done by someone to try to modernize something by its look, when you don’t need to do something as unnecessary as that, as these classics will remain timeless and continue to stand the test of time by their quality.

pat man said:

nl0428 said:

If anyone here went to go see the 3D release of The Phantom Menace, please tell me what the master and color grading looked like. Did it look like the 2011 Blu-ray, or this new Disney+ version?

I didn’t see the 3d release. But skimming through the movies the Prequels are just upscaled Blu-ray. I.e. nasty teal shift in Aotc.

I seriously would like to understand why people who do 4K HDR remasters have such a love for adding unappealing teal filters to their older films. Especially when it’s not the accurate color grading the movie had when released.

If anyone here went to go see the 3D release of The Phantom Menace, please tell me what the master and color grading looked like. Did it look like the 2011 Blu-ray, or this new Disney+ version?

Here’s what I don’t understand. If the added Greedo line was to be introduced in the cancelled 3D release, and George Lucas had made the change in say, 2012, then how come this is our first time seeing the change when it could’ve made its debut with the 2015 limited edition steelbook Blu-rays that Disney put out to promote The Force Awakens?

Hal 9000 said:

I know I have. 😕

It’s okay, I have too. But at the same time, I think we’ve developed even more respect for him by understanding how he feels.

“A movie is never finished, only abandoned”

George Lucas, 1997

ChainsawAsh said:

nl0428 said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Yep, all the differences are being discussed over in the General subforum.

General consensus seems to be that the Disney+ versions are the 2012 Reliance 4K scans that Lucas was preparing for the 3D releases that got scrapped, and according to Pablo Hidalgo, that Greedo scene change was the last alteration George made to the film(s) before he sold LFL to Disney.

So, it would’ve been one last change that would be introduced in the cancelled 3D release, despite not being in the 2011 Blu-ray?

Yep. I personally would speculate that Lucas was initially attempting to update the 2004 master for 3D and found it lacking when converted (maybe he finally noticed the horrid color work), so he just dumped what they’d already finished on the BR release and then had new 4K scans done with the intention of using those for the 3D release, all changes he’d already made that ended up on the 2011 release included. And then he just couldn’t resist one last tweak on top of that…

But then 3D re-releases turned out to not be terribly successful and he sold the company, so his new 2012 masters were shelved.

To be honest, as fan editors, I feel like we’ve sort of turned into George Lucas with not being satisfied with changes and edits we make.

The color grading of the Original Trilogy in 4K on Disney+ does look far superior to the DVD and Blu-ray versions, but it’s still not perfect to me. The lightsabers looks much better, especially when Luke is training with the remote on the Falcon. However, I have been very vocal about how much I hate this dreadful teal effect being applied to 4K remasters of older films, and it does stand out on the Disney+ versions. Revenge of the Sith and The Force Awakens seemed to have suffered the least in 4K remasters. I have not checked out Rogue One on Disney+ yet.

This also might just be me, but it seems like the music was mixed louder than the voices in Anakin and Obi-Wan’s duel in Revenge of the Sith.

ChainsawAsh said:

Yep, all the differences are being discussed over in the General subforum.

General consensus seems to be that the Disney+ versions are the 2012 Reliance 4K scans that Lucas was preparing for the 3D releases that got scrapped, and according to Pablo Hidalgo, that Greedo scene change was the last alteration George made to the film(s) before he sold LFL to Disney.

So, it would’ve been one last change that would be introduced in the cancelled 3D release, despite not being in the 2011 Blu-ray?

HOLY CRAP!!! They changed the Han and Greedo scene again! This time there’s a close-up of Greedo saying one last word and then the infamous change occurs.

Hal 9000 said:

Taking a look at the surprise new presentations of the OT on Disney+, there’s only one thing that gets my attention for ANH and ESB.

My saga edits are and always will be mastered in BluRay-spec 1080p. The new 4K HDR aspect of the Disney+ presentation cannot carry over into anything I put out. Even if it could, I’m still dependent on DVD footage (for the PT), film scan-based footage and some GOUT (for the OT), and regular 1080p footage (for the ST), so I’m anchored somewhat by the lowest common denominator.

When boiled down to an apples to apples comparison to a decent color corrected BluRay starting place, the only thing to offer seems to be a couple of content changes or a few shots that the BluRay particularly botched. The standout for me seems to be Vader’s saber in ESB; it looks better than what I was able to do. We’ll see if I find it worth the trouble to revise once the community has digested the new presentation available, but for now it seems like ANH and ESB can remain tentatively ‘final.’

Dis Disney color correct the Original Trilogy for Disney+, or is this part of the dreadful teal effect that’s applied to films when remastered in 4K HDR. I just got Disney+ today and noticed that myself too.

SparkySywer said:

That audio discrepency something I only noticed after throwing on both the Blu Ray and Harmy for kicks. I agree with Hal, the delayed audio makes the Stormtrooper’s speech sound very labored and as if he’s no longer in full control of his mind. It demonstrates the power of the Jedi in a show-not-tell kind of way.

Maybe, but I like the pauses in dialogue added to the Special Edition, as it helps the view read what is going on just like Luke is in the scene. The way it plays out in the original feels too rushed.

Mocata said:

44rh1n said:

JonathanArthur19 said:

I don’t think that Titanic would get a teal tint to it, it was mastered at 4K and Dolby Vision so I don’t think it’ll ever get a teal color grade

The standard 1080p Blu-ray already has a teal tint compared to the original DVD release. The colors were altered for the 3D release in 2012.

Uh yeah exactly it already happened.

Except the 3D release only happened for The Phantom Menace.

Is KK650’s Semi-Specialized version also used for any lightsaber scenes? He color corrected any frames where the blues turn purple or the reds turn pink/magenta.

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

nl0428 said:

Fang Zei said:

nl0428 said:

When the Original Trilogy makes its way to 4K, it will, without a doubt, be the 2011 Special Edition. However, do you think it’s possible that Disney and Lucasfilm will at least correct both the colors and sound mixes to match the theatrical presentations and sound far less compressed?

It’s going to be from an entirely newer scan of the negative, so they’ll have to redo the color-correction anyway.

As for the sound mix, your guess is as good as mine.

True, but I do believe they did a good clean up on the original negatives back when the first Special Edition in 1997 was done.

How is that relevant to color correcting the new xfer?

Because they could go back to the prints that were cleaned up for the 1997 re-releases as the main source for the 4K remaster, as well as the inclusion of the 2004/2011 changes. The only thing that I seriously hope does not happen is that a teal effect is added to the already incorrect color grading of the trilogy. I’ve noticed for 4K remasters of older films that an apparent teal effect is applied to the picture for unknown reasons. Some good examples include Terminator 2: Judgment Day and the older Batman movies.

Fang Zei said:

nl0428 said:

When the Original Trilogy makes its way to 4K, it will, without a doubt, be the 2011 Special Edition. However, do you think it’s possible that Disney and Lucasfilm will at least correct both the colors and sound mixes to match the theatrical presentations and sound far less compressed?

It’s going to be from an entirely newer scan of the negative, so they’ll have to redo the color-correction anyway.

As for the sound mix, your guess is as good as mine.

True, but I do believe they did a good clean up on the original negatives back when the first Special Edition in 1997 was done.

When the Original Trilogy makes its way to 4K, it will, without a doubt, be the 2011 Special Edition. However, do you think it’s possible that Disney and Lucasfilm will at least correct both the colors and sound mixes to match the theatrical presentations and sound far less compressed?