MalàStrana

suspiciouscoffee said:

MalàStrana said:

They are bad, but not that bad. Episode 3 is quite good outside of lame key scenes (which means that most of the movie actually works fine),

Which scenes aren’t lame and work fine?

Most of the opening, from the crawl to the “happy landing”. Most of Palpatine scenes before he reveals himself as Sidious (Opera scene is very good). Most of the Kashyyyk scenes (all except the Yoda leaving in a tiny spaceship thing). Obviously all of “order 66” (except Anakin killing kids). All of Mustafar duel except a few dialogues. Obi-Wan at Utapau going rogue against Grievous (except Grievous death). Etc. Great stuff, great music, beautiful aesthetics, still strong cgi (except a few shots and elements that didn’t age very well). No wonder fanedited versions of Episode 3 are very good movies. But Lucas fails with the turning to the dark side scene. He should have kept it off screen, with this wonderful sequence as the real turning point (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hoXNXSpmng), not the later bullshit in Palpi’s office.

They are bad, but not that bad. Episode 3 is quite good outside of lame key scenes (which means that most of the movie actually works fine), Episode 1 is mediocre but watchable (thanks to great action sequences and some cool visual ideas). Only Episode 2 is an authentic failure. Their conception are nevertheless historic and many new things have been achieved (like CGI characters interacting with flesh and blood actors). I tend to think they are interesting movies (that can be even good thanks to fan-editing), especially with the hindsight of the new Disney’s movies, which are flat and pointless.

Haarspalter said:

• rigid blue screen cinematography
• 85% CGI Effects vs 15% Practical Effects

Yep. Like TFA and R1 by the way…

Lucas way of filming is rigid (it has always been; the guy is an editor, not a director), not the tools he developed. The “back to practical” trend of TFA/R1 is a marketing joke. Most of Disney’s new movies are CGI/blue-green screens filmmaking with a few props on set just for marketing purposes… And practical effects of the PT are great (Trade federation actors for example).

Ronster said:
Would you move Slasher Vader in to Star Wars though? and extend the attack on the Tantive?

Nah. ANH is a perfect movie already damaged by bad additions in 1997/2004/2011; Darth Jason Voorhees Vader (and his weird retro costume that’s falling apart…) of the terrible Rogue One does not belong in this classic.

Soundtrack ranking is very close to my movie ranking (in my updated movie ranking I would switch TFA and AOTC, in order to put the Disney “body snatchers” terrible fanservice movies at the very end, where they belong):

1. ANH
2. TESB
3. ROTJ
4. ROTS
5. TPM
6. TFA
7. AOTC
8. R1

TV’s Frink said:
I hope they got permission/blessings from his estate or family or whatever.

It’s the first thing they did.

I’m impressed by CGI Tarkin. Still not convinced by the technology but it’s reaching perfection. Funny thing is that Disney is trying to “fix” issues with the previous movies: TFA was partly based on rejected ideas for ROTJ regarding Han Solo, while R1 tries to give us something we (at least “I”) wanted to see during the prequels: more Tarkin. I know he’s good in TCW but it’s not the same as if Lucas had put him in the Republic Army in AOTC (assuming George wouldn’t have ridiculized his character…).

Mithrandir said:
May more movies like RO come

Sadly that’s already the case: all blockbusters look the same, and this R1 is no different than any Marvel or DC movies we get every year.

She has lost the will to live ?

It’s probably going to be a Gladiator reconstruction for IX.

MalàStrana said:

I don’t know where else I can ask it: Frink, as the fan-edit “great wizard”, do you know if someone had made an audio-hybrid edition of Blade Runner, using the final cut as the video source and as the main audio source with parts of the voiceover of the theatrical cut into it ? I know ADM produced something similar, but he changed the video as well.

By the way I did it myself in the meantime. So if someone is interested by an alternate audio track with most of the voiceover reinserted (even the “newspaper” one, which was cut with its shot; I’ve found a way to put it somewhere and it works fine) and synchonized with the bluray Final Cut video source, ask me.

(@Frink: sorry for posting that here. I don’t think this is “fanediting material” enough to open a proper topic, but tell me if you want that I remove my post here).

It’s a fan film: the story is pointless and filled with various elements that make no sense (a walker within the city ? Is it the best weapon for this kind of environnement ?) just because they want to put a “SW skin” on it. But on the other hand it’s technically well made; it costed quite a lot so this is the minimum we can expect. It’s a well made fan film if you want. The actors… let’s say they try their best, which is not enough since the screenwriter didn’t do his job to develop correctly the characters.

• play the song “i’m your boogeyman” at each Vader scene (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4guKyppFbSU)
• intercut shots from Old Boy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwIIDzrVVdc) and 300 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8bIEk58LzI) for the Vader’s slaughter scene (not sure if it could work though);
• use as much BattleField Earth material/dialogues you can for Saw scenes
• when Vader is in the medical tube, use a PT Anakin dialogue over it ? (“you underestimate my powers !”)
• use TCW’s Tarkin to replace CGI “Uncanny Valley” Tarkin

@Frink

There is the grade (0/10) and there is the talking (a few posts in this very topic). Obviously you don’t read the text, only the grade (and the “punchlines”). So don’t feel trolled if you’re just looking at getting trolled…

Now, back to the movie.

In order to go back to the point, Hulk has finally released his analysis. He liked the first half of the movie, didn’t like how the set up of the first half was used to conclude everything.

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/12/21/rogue-one-film-crit-hulk-the-slippery-sloping-story-of-rogue-one

His take on the second Vader scene is something, as you can read, I can very much agree with:

My core issues with this film’s dramatic engine are summed up in the ending that follows… I’m talking about everything surrounding the Darth Vader hallway scene.
Now, when it comes to this intense unleashing of menace and chaos, it’s everything we’ve ever wanted, right? It’s filmed in a scary way! With smart execution and real brutality! From Vader!
Too bad it’s after our climax has already occurred. It’s a sequence where we already know exactly what’s going to happen (the plans are going to get to Leia) and involves a bunch of faceless nobodies. This just turns into gore horror movie logic. Let’s show the “bad guy” character we indulgently like kicking ass! Which is why people clap and cheer, all as part of the most puerile reversing and misunderstanding of Vader-worship. To me, it’s the exact same kind of bastardization as the pun, but this time the betrayal is for indulgent bullshit. You can say this is an extreme opinion, but I am not backing down from this.

Vader must be almost removed at 100%, just leave the shot on the Destroyer when he arrives, and then cut to the credits (no Leia, no “Hope”… or maybe just Leia’s Back and then cut to the credits).

(edit3: ok, this one !)

Lord Haseo said:

MalàStrana said:
Oh dude, it was a joke, like the ones Frink and others are constantly making and you don’t seem to have anything to say against.

I have gotten on him about that in regards to Metal and him seemingly being opposed to people expressing their sexuality so you’re wrong about that one bud.

Ok, fine, I don’t read everything around. There still is quite a difference between being slightly sarcastic and calling someone an “ass”, don’t you think ?

Tobar said:

MalàStrana said:

If he really wanted the plans he could have got them with the Force. The scene is totally dumb.

That’s assuming he knew one of the soldiers had the plans.

Could have been done very differently. All the set up of the scene is problematic. Like Leia and the Tantive IV being there the entire space battle… in a ship that was collapsing ! Leia could have been far away while receiving the transmission from the “sinking” ship, not directly within the sinking ship ! Also it would have been more consistent with the opening of ANH.

Lord Haseo said:

MalàStrana said:

Tobar said:

ROTS literally has him slaughtering children but a hallway of soldiers is a step too far?

Oh yeah I forgot about that ! But we don’t see him doing that, and he’s the main character of the movie, not a random dude killing random extras. But I don’t like it either. If he really wanted the plans he could have got them with the Force. The scene is totally dumb.

He also had to defend himself

Great:

• Vader ! What have you done ?!?
• It was self-defense, sir. I had to defend myself ! Oh… what have I done !!!

By the way Haseo: play nice and stop insulting people you don’t agree with, ok ?

I called Mala an ass because of his sarcastic response that wasn’t warranted in the first place. But fuck me right?

Oh dude, it was a joke, like the ones Frink and others are constantly making and you don’t seem to have anything to say against.

Tobar said:

ROTS literally has him slaughtering children but a hallway of soldiers is a step too far?

Oh yeah I forgot about that ! But we don’t see him doing that, and he’s the main character of the movie, not a random dude killing random extras. But I don’t like it either. If he really wanted the plans he could have got them with the Force. The scene is totally dumb.

Lord Haseo said:

All I’ve ever wanted in life is to see Vader kill some Jedi.

Watch ANH [SPOILER He kills Obi-Wan]

Yeah I may be harsh, but until this stupid Vader scene I didn’t like the movie at all either. Very bad war movie and a SW out of topic.

Handman said:
I’m glad to find I’m not alone in thinking Darth was misused here.

I even think the Vader going wild is the worst scene including Vader in SW canon. In TMP/AOTC Anakin is not Vader, so no issue there. In ROTS, he becomes definitely Vader at the very end (after the “Noooo”), so there is only one true Vader scene: when he walks the Destroyer bridge to join the Emperor. I may add that when Vader/Anakin kills all the separatits it is close to the Vader Rogue One ending scene, but there is a huge difference: in ROTS, when he kills the separatists he has still good in him and knows there is something wrong (I particularly love the fact he doesn’t want R2 to witness his bloody actions), but he wipes out people we know (like Gunray and the other leaders we’ve seen in AOTC or sooner in the movie), which means we have an emotional connection to what’s going on here. In Rogue One, Vader comes when the story is finished (every single character of the story we’ve just seen in dead) and kills people we don’t know (random rebel soldiers). And this is so wrong at every level, because the scene is clearly made so the audience can cheer “oh damn Vader is so badass killing everyone”, which is sick, really sick. Rogue One is a drama movie and yet at the very end we are supposed to be entertained by a “fun” (?) slaughter, involving undevelopped and faceless characters ? This is the dumbest and sickest fan-service I have ever seen. It seems Gilroy shot the scene. This guy doesn’t get SW at all and the Vader character as well. A Jason Voorhees/Michael Myers scene to introduce Vader to the continuing plot is the summit of stupidity of this movie, which shows they don’t even know how to tell a story. When I give 0/10 to this movie it’s not to be provocative: I really mean it. I could give 1 or 2 for a few shots or a few ideas here and there but the overall movie is such an insult to Star Wars I can go higher than 0. Even AOTC is less insulting (which is amazing).

DuracellEnergizer said:

MalàStrana said:

generalfrevious said:

TV’s Frink said:

Nah.

I’m still calling it Disney Wars to differentiate it from the OT.

I’m calling it (SW stories, sequel trilogy) the “body snatchers era”: looks like SW, feels like SW, but it’s not SW.

That’s still more than can be said for the prequels.

PT: doesn’t look like SW, doesn’t feel like SW, but it’s SW.

Lord Haseo said:

MalàStrana said:

Lord Haseo said:

MalàStrana said:

The ROTJ “storytelling scene” stays a very charming moment in the saga.

If by charming you really mean childish and stupid, then yes. It’s beyond cringeworthy.

Ok, you don’t like the scene, childish I can understand (SW is childish, even TESB and ROTS are), but expand on why this is stupid.

it doesn’t push the plot forward in any way.

The ewoks deciding after the story to join the rebellion ?

generalfrevious said:

TV’s Frink said:

Nah.

I’m still calling it Disney Wars to differentiate it from the OT.

I’m calling it (SW stories, sequel trilogy) the “body snatchers era”: looks like SW, feels like SW, but it’s not SW.

Lord Haseo said:

MalàStrana said:

The ROTJ “storytelling scene” stays a very charming moment in the saga.

If by charming you really mean childish and stupid, then yes. It’s beyond cringeworthy.

Ok, you don’t like the scene, childish I can understand (SW is childish, even TESB and ROTS are), but expand on why this is stupid.

Anchorhead said:

MalàStrana said:
The ROTJ “storytelling scene” stays a very charming moment in the saga.

Sitting in the theater in 1983, that’s the very moment I knew the franchise (Lucas-penned) no longer spoke to me.
I couldn’t reconcile that bedtime story scene with the burned bodies in Star Wars.

Rogue One brings back that seriousness.

ANH and TESB aren’t that serious. They are pretty funny movies with a serious treatment. The difference is that the plot and the characters are taken seriously but their adventures and interaction can be fun. There is a balance to find, a balance that has been reached in the entire OT (ROTJ included), lost in the PT (except Jar Jar and Gunray all characters are too damned serious in TPM), failed in TFA (where there is too much slasptick humor and “soap comedy”), while in R1 it’s weird (serious tone but lack of development to justify the characters behaviors; a few jokes - thanks K2 - that sometimes work). Vader killing Captains and Admiral in cold blood is serious AND cool; Vader slaughtering random rebels in a dark corridor is serious AND boring AND totally pointless. And I don’t like the idea that in the official movie canon he does not draw his red saber for the first time on screen to duel Obi-Wan (and there is now an inconsistency between Vader dueling in ANH and Vader moving like a boogeyman in R1).