Leonardo

But then again, same problem arises, even assuming infinite universes, can a finite mind possibly know them? The answer is of course no.

I've never seen Blade Runner... :(

Could you elaborate on that, please?

TV's Frink said:

Leonardo said:

TV's Frink said:

Since I attack religion for "knowing" I have to do the same on the other side.

Leo, what makes you so sure there isn't a God?

 My own, personal, complete rejection of anything metaphysical. I even go as far as rarely using the verb "believe", and never using the word "soul" because it has no meaning for me.
The two worlds, the physical and the metaphysical, by definition should be totally and utterly separated. There could never be any contact between the two.

Also, while on one hand I do love and participate in humanity's quest for knowledge, on the other hand I do not agree to the postulate that every creation must have a Creator.

Did that answer your question? Any follow ups?

 I'm not sure it did.  Don't you think there is a possibility, no matter how small, that you are wrong and that there is a God?

 I don't think there is. What I've postulated pretty much excludes it. If I have to admit the possibility that there is a God, then I have to do the same for unicorns, fairies, comic book characters, Santa Clause and so on...
I don't see it as "being wrong" or "being right", I've been accused of arrogance but I don't think that's it. Theists and atheists come from opposite postulates, that's all.

Jaitea said:

If God created us perfect and individual and has a paradise for our soul, why send us to earth in the first place?......why let his creations become tainted by sin on earth?

J

 Well, it's about the journey, isn't it? The good witch could have told Dorothy to use the ruby slippers, but she wouldn't have met Scarecrow, Tin Man and the Lion if she had done so.

Might I ask how do you pronounce your name? Is it Hai-T? Or Hai-Teh-Ah?

Reegar said:

Leonardo said:

Too bad. I'm not as eloquent as most of you, so I just try my best to put into words what goes thru mah brains.

Whoever told you that? You're the most approachable person in this thread so far, and have explained your thoughts well. :)

 Thank you, I appreciate that, but I must say you come off as more coherent. I am all over the place, I'm the first to recognize that.

I fucking love cheese on toast.

TV's Frink said:

Since I attack religion for "knowing" I have to do the same on the other side.

Leo, what makes you so sure there isn't a God?

 My own, personal, complete rejection of anything metaphysical. I even go as far as rarely using the verb "believe", and never using the word "soul" because it has no meaning for me.
The two worlds, the physical and the metaphysical, by definition should be totally and utterly separated. There could never be any contact between the two.

Also, while on one hand I do love and participate in humanity's quest for knowledge, on the other hand I do not agree to the postulate that every creation must have a Creator.

Did that answer your question? Any follow ups?

DominicCobb said:

I thought about starting this thread and then saying that I probably wouldn't answer any questions because atheists don't have a set set of beliefs. Any question that gets answered just comes down to the answerer's view on life. 

So I just want to make it clear that these answers don't represent the beliefs of all atheists. I'm sure we all know that but it's a common misconception that all atheists think the same thing and treat others and the world the same way. I actually see atheism as the belief system that faces the most prejudice (let me be VERY clear that what I mean by this is that I think many theists have a low opinion of atheists - I do not mean AT ALL that they are persecuted or are the victim of any sort of violence, because they aren't).

What really annoys me the most is when theists see atheists as people who have no soul or sense of empathy. Again, I don't mean you guys, but I've met people in the world like this. Just anecdotally I feel like a lot of theists have a low opinion for atheists that they'd never have for a theist with a different religion.

Personally, my hands are off religion so it annoys me when people try to argue against my atheism (which, again, I don't think you see a theist doing this to a theist of a different religion) because I just want no part in religion. For me, God doesn't exist, and that's that. 

Of course, this makes it all the more rewarding when I meet a theist who totally respects my beliefs.

This wasn't really a question, but whatever.

 Quoted For Thruth, and appreciated.

timdiggerm said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

timdiggerm said:

What makes a person evil?

 Feeling empathy yet ignoring it.

 Okay, so the guards at the death camps may have been evil, but Hitler, sufficiently insulated from the messy reality of the gas chambers, was probably fine?

The SS were weak minds, turned by propaganda to believe that the individuals they were dealing with weren't even human. The first step in the elimination of the Jews was introducing a word to define them in everyday speech: rats. That is how they called them. And if you take humanity away from somebody, killing them is almost a given.

damn, 3 pages...        ; )

timdiggerm said:

You're asking me if I think genocide is bad. I'll tell you, I think murder is bad, genocide is horrific. On what grounds? Well, I wouldn't kill anybody.

Not good enough. "I wouldn't do it" is hardly a firm ground for condemning the acts of others.

It seems to be good enough for homophobes.

The "Do unto others" rule, doesn't only exist in Christianity and probably 99% of other religions in the world (look it up). It's plain common sense, dictated by self preservation, killing people is "bad" because it would be detrimental to the survival of the species.

Unless you're killing people who would be detrimental to the survival of the species, of course.

Well, since we now live in a civilized society, we can afford not to kill them, and lock them up, say Charlie Manson, or Pol Pot who died under house arrest.

However, you can look at the good that came from the bad. If it weren't for Schicklgruber, Von Braun wouldn't have left Germany, and maybe a German or Russian cosmonaut would've walked on the Moon. I like to think that WWII, while a horrible scar in humanity's past, has brought life to endless material for comedians, whole generations of them. Some have based their entire career on it!

It's unknowable how much good could have happened without the war, the war could have happened without the holocaust and still led to the space race, and the death of millions is hardly a satisfactory justification for men on the moon.

Don't twist my words, there, buddy. I never said anything about it being a "satisfactory justification".

I'll make another example that will, no doubt, make every American cringe. We all know lots of people died on 11 Sept 2001. We all feel bad about it. But maybe (to quote comedian Louis C.K.) there were a couple of assholes that day, on the towers. We don't know for sure, but statistically we can assume at least one person saw the buildings collapse, and sighed with relief, because somebody they had a beef with, was in the middle of that disaster.

Yeah and some people sighed with relief because America had taken a blow and some people sighed with relief because the Jews were dead and... I don't see where you're going with this.

Don't bother reading a second time, then, you won't get it.

The usual idea is that, without some sort of ultimate authority, there's no way to absolutely say that something is bad.

Well, turns out there is no ultimate authority, in every sense. What was good once, may not fly today. In other words, humanity will make its own rules. If everybody agrees killing each other is good, well, guess what, it's good. But until further notice, it's bad.

And enough people agreed that the Final Solution was a good idea. That wouldn't fly today, but it sure did then.

I feel like I rambled. Did that answer your question?

Nope.

 Too bad. I'm not as eloquent as most of you, so I just try my best to put into words what goes thru mah brains.

I loved the Disney one (1983, I think), with Scrooge McDuck and Mickey Mouse.

No need to apologize, man. :) Take it easy.

It's almost over anyway

Re2

This is an interesting question. I'll try to answer as best as I can, and Reegar, I'd like to hear your take, too.

okay,

Can you morally condemn the holocaust, and, if so, on what grounds?

You're asking me if I think genocide is bad. I'll tell you, I think murder is bad, genocide is horrific. On what grounds? Well, I wouldn't kill anybody. The "Do unto others" rule, doesn't only exist in Christianity and probably 99% of other religions in the world (look it up). It's plain common sense, dictated by self preservation, killing people is "bad" because it would be detrimental to the survival of the species.

Of course the death of six million Jews is bad. And the death of all the gypsies and homosexuals that the Nazis rounded up, too. And the death of millions of Russian soldiers. And German soldiers, and American soldiers, and Japanese soldiers.

I'm sad that all these people had to die, for one reason or another. The ideological backing behind the Holocaust, though, is what makes it even more insufferable. The mere thought that these people had to suffer, be separated from their families, starve, die, just because Germany had lost the war and was in an economic crisis and needed a scapegoat, is incredibly saddening.

However, you can look at the good that came from the bad. If it weren't for Schicklgruber, Von Braun wouldn't have left Germany, and maybe a German or Russian cosmonaut would've walked on the Moon. I like to think that WWII, while a horrible scar in humanity's past, has brought life to endless material for comedians, whole generations of them. Some have based their entire career on it!

I'll make another example that will, no doubt, make every American cringe. We all know lots of people died on 11 Sept 2001. We all feel bad about it. But maybe (to quote comedian Louis C.K.) there were a couple of assholes that day, on the towers. We don't know for sure, but statistically we can assume at least one person saw the buildings collapse, and sighed with relief, because somebody they had a beef with, was in the middle of that disaster.

42

Life's a bitch, the Universe is definitely great (as in humongous) and everything's coming up Milhouse.

Though in my case, it won't make much difference now.

Rg2

Well, define "great" ;)

First off, I forgot to thank you for the advice in the previous posts, I'm doing it now. Two, I apologize for the long wait, but I wanted to think about my move. My biggest mistake is always moving without giving it the necessary thought. I'll get back to Warbler with my next move in a little while.

Ok, I'll bite. Ask me anything. You also have my permission to be offensive.

Disclaimer: I do not claim to represent the opinion of every atheist, or of any majority or minority of atheists, because the thing with us is, we don't group (well, most of us).

JEDIT: since this is not a religious thread, we can talk about anything, my pretty eyes for example. :D ;)

Bingowings said:

 My homosexuality is defined by the sexual acts I commit. The rest of what I do is just weird.

 I want that on a shirt. :)

I'd put an infrared sensor in the base of that figure, so that each time I'd approach it'd go "T'oona chuta, Solo?" :)

TV's Frink said:

Leonardo said:

TV's Frink said:

As always when this subject comes up, I present...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFo8NGO4nTA

 Thank you, I was looking for this.

 I always do a search for "Mr. Show Overcome."

 It's in my favourites now. As an aside, we always hear of child-touchers breaking their celibacy vow, but I don't think I've ever once heard somebody scream in outrage at priests having sexual relations with women. Is that supposed to be okay somehow? Is it just a hush hush, don't speak about it, wink wink nudge nudge kinda thing?

Because there are, I assure you, priests that have sex with women, and my guess is that there are a LOT of them. I don't wanna go offtopic or hijack the catholic's thread, but please post if you've heard of them, if you knew or know of an example. Here's a little story.

My mom and I were standing, once, in front of the main church of the city she grew up in, and we had just finished talking to the priest, which she's known since when she was a girl. All of a sudden a woman with a couple of shopping bags hops out of a car, my mom points at her and says to me:

"See that woman? That's the priest's wife"

Apparently these two people have been in a relationship for a very long time.

TV's Frink said:

As always when this subject comes up, I present...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFo8NGO4nTA

 Thank you, I was looking for this.

RicOlie_2 said:

Regarding homosexuality, it appears to be psychological. since homosexuals can be reoriented to be straight and many have been. It can work in the reverse too. Apparently the statistics are quite high for men who join the navy becoming gay because their "sexual orientation," if you want to call it that, changes when they are away from contact with the opposite sex for so long. Because of that, Catholics don't recognize it as true and good sexuality.

Here are a few articles on the subject, for informational purposes.

Reorientation

Increase of Sexual Tolerance

Further Increase of Sexual Tolerance

Those are links to a christian site. Whatever they wanna say, they have their right, but they have no scientific authority. You cannot "reorient" somebody, just like you cannot change the colour of your eyes. Sure, you can use coloured contact lenses. Do you see my point?

Gay men have lived double lives for years, either because they could not come out of the closet, or because they felt fine the way they were, or for whatever reason. Some of them would get married (the so called "beard"). But a gay man married to a woman does not a heterosexual make.