Just to be sure: Timing-wise 2.0 is 100% identical to the 1.0 Despecialization, down to every frame, isn't it? Because right now I'm syncing up the German audio to the 1.0 video...
TheObi said:
Personally I think it would be cool to have one track theatrically accurate as possible and one sounding as good as possible (maybe even in 5.1).
Thanks for the overview.
I guess we can't be picky here. Right now I'm about to finish the "main" soundtrack, which is based on the German GOUT, but including some missing lines that were ONLY heard in the theatrical version, and never on any home video release prior to the Blu-ray.
Other than that we're planning include both the "Silver Screen" and THX tracks as lossless PCM tracks. My idea for the 5.1 track was using the digital broadcast of the 97SE as a basis, but replacing the center channel with the according parts from the Blu-ray (as the remastered dialogues sound goooood). Of course, I'll have to cut out any SE stuff and patch up those areas, but now that I got EditDroid's 5.1 track (thanks to russs15!), it might be a bit easier (even though that one's based on the 2004 5.1 track).
You_Too said:
I'll just wait
You_Too said:
can't wait
Make up your mind, man! ;)
BTW, the German audio track for this is almost finished. (in probably a couple of hours)
Can anyone hook me up with the edited 5.1 track of this?
I was wondering, was there ever a project on these forums about editing the 97SE 5.1-track into something that matches the non-SE-OT?
According to OFDb.de (which is pretty much the best source of information regarding German releases) Turkish subtitles are only on the SE-DVDs, not on the GOUTs:
http://www.ofdb.de/view.php?page=fassung&fid=242&vid=182217
http://www.ofdb.de/view.php?page=fassung&fid=243&vid=182220
http://www.ofdb.de/view.php?page=fassung&fid=244&vid=182221
Do you still offer these captures?
I'm wondering, what German version of "Star Wars" do you have:
Is it the 1993 "Silver Screen Collection"?
Or the 1995 THX-release?
Either way, I'd be very interested in a lossless capture of these (probably compressed to FLAC, for easier upload). Since Harmy is in the midst of wrapping up his 2.0 Despecialization of "Star Wars", some of us are going for a German version of it, by incorporating the German crawl and subtitles.
Adding to that I've edited the German 2.0 track from the "Limited Edition"-DVD to include some missing material. But it would be great to add more audio options, and the Laserdisc audio would definitely be a worthy addition.
Since Harmy's 2.0 of SW is getting closer, maybe it's a good time to discuss audio options for the German version. Right now I'm creating a 2.0 track based on the GOUT but I'm inserting all the missing lines using the Blu-ray (sorry CatBus, not in PAL). If I can manage to do it I'll update it to 2.1 using Hairy_Hen's LFE-channel.
With the remastered German dub of the Blu-ray I was hoping to use its center channel to update an existing 5.1 track with the remastered dialogue... but is there actually a German (pre-DVD and pre-SE) 5.1 track on any of the German Laserdisc releases? Preferrably one that has already been ripped...
I guess a good English mix would work as well, as long as the channels are discrete and the English dialogue occurs ONLY in the center channel. Hairy_Hen's mix sadly won't work, as it's just an upmix where the dialogue blends into the left and right channels as well.
Also was there ever a German mono mix?
All the Senator shots show this pink tint, so it's not part of that shot alone, but a camera issue. A quick white balance of the shot results in this:
So I'd say your workprint color correction was the right one.
Mike to the rescue...
I was really interested in hearing your take on this, and it really mirrors my sentiment. I'm really hesitant to go "fuck preservation, make it look great!", as after all that's the point of Harmy's work. On the other hand the whole thing already looks much better/cleaner/sharper than probably a lot of theatrical prints looked back then, so I guess a jarring error like this is negligible preservation-wise.
It's funny, as I recently had the discussion with n00b about the typo in the German TESB-crawl, and I was (and still am) absolutely convinced that it has to be preserved. And now this... :D
I'm not even sure why I want this fixed... I guess because it's more distracting than a misplaced Umlaut. Is it 100% definitive that the IB print represents the coloring the prints for the cinemas back then had?
Would it be an option to have it a half-way mix between the miscolored version and your color correction, just to make it less distracting? Ah man, I'm lost here...
Although it would be a shame to throw your superb color correction out the window by having that shot look like ass...
Harmy said:
So, I was thinking; there are many small colour anomalies in the original colour timing, like one shot having a blue cast and the next having a purple one and such. Most of the time kept true to them but I did make one rather major exception: the two shots from this angle:
The top is how it appears in the WP, the bottom is almost exactly how it appears on the I.B. print; all the other shots in the print look pretty much the way they look in the WP, so these two stand out quite a bit. What do you guys think, should I make them look like this?
Top one!
I can't imagine this was anything else but an error. Is the IB print really an indication about what a pristine theatrical copy looked back then? Either way, the miscoloring wasn't a result of a technical limitation, budget constraints or lack of production time... someone just made a mistake after the film was finished.
Ideally we should try to incorporate the remastered German dialogues (from the Blu-rays' center channels) into Hairy_Hen's 5.1 mixes as another option besides the (fixed) GOUT tracks.
Also I'd say we can easily create fixed German GOUT tracks for TESB and ROTJ as well ;)
n00b said:
Am I right that the German GOUT tracks of TESB and ROTJ don't miss any lines?
Not to my knowledge.
Also I think Luffy's version still had the wrong pitch.
Edit: By the way, the german GOUT audio seems to have a lower volume than the English track (which seems to be normalized to 0dB). Does anybody know if there's a "correct" normalization limit the track should go to?
As far as I know normalizing to 0dB is usually wrong, and broadcast material is always normalized to -6dB (and the German GOUT audio has its peak at -6.7dB)...
n00b said:
Many thanks for your efforts. But we are talking about the same thing - delaying the audio track, right?Those few missing lines shouldn't be a huge problem as they aren't essential and different lines were missing in nearly every release. For example, the GOUT of TESB has more lines than the 2004 DVD or the 1995 THX VHS release. Do you really think anybody should extract the lines from DTS-HD 5.1 and mix them into the 2.0 track? This could cause even more damage.
Well, I've already done that a couple of minutes ago ;) Those lines were included in the theatrical mix, so I think they should be in there for the Despecialization.
I've used the German Blu-ray center channel, filtered it to match the dialogue quality of the GOUT audio, and put the handful of missing sentences back into the mix. I'd say it sounds seamless.
I'll encode to AC3 and upload the whole thing, so you guys can judge for yourself.
n00b said:
Laserschwert said:
The lower pitch is correct. When it was brought from film (23.976 fps) to PAL (25 fps) for all the home video release before the Blu-ray, the pitch got higher, which was, of course, wrong (but never fixed). But the framerate isn't the only thing that needs fixing to make it sync up with Harmy's versions - at least TESB and ROTJ need some trimming as well. You should check the German preservation thread about all this :)
Thanks, this would mean everything's alright now. Trimming = delaying the track for 1 or 2 seconds in that case?
Are you going to provide Harmy with the track? Otherwise, I'll do so.
I sent Harmy the links. Trimming was only something in the milliseconds range and only for TESB and ROTJ.
The only problem is that the German GOUT of SW isn't perfect as it has some lines of dialogue missing. Those missing lines could be taken from other Laserdisc sources and the Blu-ray though.
The lower pitch is correct. When it was brought from film (23.976 fps) to PAL (25 fps) for all the home video release before the Blu-ray, the pitch got higher, which was, of course, wrong (but never fixed). But the framerate isn't the only thing that needs fixing to make it sync up with Harmy's versions - at least TESB and ROTJ need some trimming as well. You should check the German preservation thread about all this :)
@Harmy: PM sent
I'm not sure what program to use to encode to 264... how about X264 Encoder? I've never used it though, just a quick Google...
I've already edited the German GOUT-audio to be in sync with Harmy's version and at the correct pitch (which the GOUT is not). So if Harmy is interested, he might add this to his release, of course.
Once Harmy releases his new Despecialization there will be a completely German version (including German crawl and Greedo subtitles) in the near future.
I guess with all the audio projects going on here, it's not really that problematic to NOT have sound coming with the files.
Of course storing them as RAWs is a waste of space, as there are enough file formats with lossless compression out there, like PNG or TIF, that also support more than 8bit color per channel.
Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:
there is light at the end of the tunnel.
I think that's the Death Star reactor... don't forget to turn around afterwards and get your ass back out there ;)
That looks fantastic! Great job :)
I've added download links for the complete package in MP3-320kbps and FLAC to the opening post.