logo Sign In

Laserman

User Group
Members
Join date
11-May-2004
Last activity
6-Sep-2007
Posts
903

Post History

Post
#83174
Topic
.: The X0 Project Discussion Thread :. (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/83174/action/topic#83174
Time
Seriously, I got a lot of questions as to 'Why'
However, The questions were more in the vein of 'Why spend all this time and effort on a straight transfer rather than a restoration effort like mverta'.
The answer is of course that we need a better transfer than what is currently available to restore *from*. In the absence of another original source, the LD set is all we have, so eeking the best quality out of it is all important.

And also, I can only sleep at night once I know there is an archive of the original laserdiscs that is as good or better than the laserdiscs themselves.
Post
#83169
Topic
<strong>The Cowclops Transfers (a.k.a. the PCM audio DVD's, Row47 set) Info and Feedback Thread</strong> (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/83169/action/topic#83169
Time
Are there screenshots available yet for the new TR47 sponsored version?
I would love to see some shots of the same scenes as on my site to see how I am tracking. All the screenshots form other projects have been invaluable in making sure I am not missing anything in the captures. Mainly interested in the raw captures if at all possible.

Post
#83168
Topic
.: The X0 Project Discussion Thread :. (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/83168/action/topic#83168
Time
Just to let you all know, the X0 project is going to take a while. The reason is the same as it is for anyone doing a LD rip, the process is long and involved.
To give you an update of where it is at, and what is involved:
We are doing all of this with lossless compression. This means its over 80GB per movie, so doing anything to it takes some time, money and a turdload of storage.

The video has been captured, but now has to be inverse telecined, to get back to a 24fps progressive master, and then joined into a coherent whole, removing side changes etc. This has to be done for each movie.
Then we need to go through them and fix any glitches, and sync the audio. This is just to get to the point where we have a clean, lossless master to begin with. (i.e. Now we can actually start). This has meant a lot of hard drive purchases, and hundreds of bux just in shipping costs alone for each person involved.
Then it will need a colour grade, perhaps some filtering in some scenes, a final check and then finally a transcode to DVD-9 to make a more easily playable version on home equipment. Perhaps even a WMV9 version for HTPC users. From there it will be up to all of you. If it turns out to be better quality than the currently available archived versions, then perhaps other versions will come out based on this capture (Like mebejedi's work on fixing sabre mistakes, and mverta's work on removing matte lines etc.), but at the very least an untouched archive will be made.

So hang loose people, it won't happen overnight, but we will get there. It should result in a very good archival copy. It will be theoretically possible to make a better archive (by playing with the capture settings a bit more, and recapturing) but the difference would be outrageously small, and anyway this version should look better than it did on your laserdisc player unless you are lucky enough to own an X0 or x9.

Now of course you could make a better version by attempting a a de-SE style project, but to do that you will need as good a laserdisc transfer as possible to use for inserted scenes, so the X0 project is still an important part of future projects as well.

TR47s new project will probably be finished before ours, and may look as good or better, so hopefully we will be spoiled for choice!

(BTW. The reason for this post is not trumpet blowing, its just to stop the flood of PMs and e-mail asking when will it be ready, and 'Why are you doing this when there are already LD transfers out there'. Its also to let people know whats involved - another common question is 'How can I make my own LD rip' I hope this answers some of that. Feel free to e-mail me with other questions/suggestions though. )

A big thanks to everyone that has helped out so far - its much appreciated.
Post
#83189
Topic
It isnt so bad...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/83189/action/topic#83189
Time
Well, its easy enough to go in and remove the matte lines and fix the sabres, you can do it to your own DVD set and reburn it if that is all that worries you about it. Its a starightforward job and would only take a few days of messing about.
Unfortunately, its a lot more than that which causes them to be unwatchable for me.

I could live with a lot of the changes, its the cringeworthy editions that just wreck my enjoment of the movie.
The Jabba scene in ANH is just awful and doesn't work and doesn't help the flow of the film, the comedic CG bits are just awful too, and the ghost replacement at the end of Jedi is ridiculous. I find Bobbas new voice jarring, but that is probably more so for Aussie and Kiwis, it just seems to weird having an instantly recognisable( to us) NZ accent coming from Bobba fett, it would be like the voice of Casey Cason suddenly coming out of C3PO for you American types

If he had released it without the comedy bits, without the new Jabba scenes, the dance numbers, endings and voices, I honestly wouldn't have minded that much. The new CG battle scenes don't bother me *that much* and some of the other stuff just washes past if you are not looking for it.
Its the things that forcefully jar me out of the movie that I hate.
Post
#83184
Topic
A response to the &quot;They're His Movies&quot; arguement
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/83184/action/topic#83184
Time
I guess from my point of view, there is nothing to say that any movie has to be released onto DVD. So if the OT never came out on DVD, it would be a disappointment, but hey, there is still the laserdisc versions, and they look OK.

What got me was the release of the SE on DVD, without an original version being available on DVD. As an archivist, I thought this was beyond disappointing. When I saw how much better a lot of the restored footage is on DVD vs on laserdisc (the detail is stunning) it made me even more sad.
It would have been so easy to also include the original scenes as they were, even just from a documentary perspective (This is the original scene, and this is how we changed it).

Now of course they are his films and he can do what he likes. But like it or not, they became part of a public conciousness and changed a lot of people's lives and burned themselves into a lot of peoples memories.

Just like a particular song becomes entwined with important moments in your life, so do some films. The difference is that all those songs got released and mostly remastered onto CD for you still to enjoy and tweak your memory etc. A lot of those old songs got remade, r covered by other artists, and are arguably better than the originals, and in some cases are probably closer to what the artist intended than what they released originally.
That doesn't change the fact though that you probably still love the original tune, with all its faults, because *that* version is what was playing when you fell in love, won the game, saw your child walk for the first time.

The star wars movies are the only case I can think of where the 'cover version' or 'improved' version is the only version available, and the original is not available on the same medium. It doesn't happen in music, in print or anything else I can think of.

The big tragedy is it wouldn't have cost a lot of extra time or effort to do, and would've been a nice reward to the hard core fan base that filled his pockets when he needed it most.

/begin rant/

But its our fault, we put up with it, and (sorry) lame online petitions aren't going to change anything.

Organising 2000 people to march for it in San Rafael at the outskirts of the ranch might change it: - if all 67,000 people on the online petition wrote a REAL PAPER LETTER each and posted it, *in the same month* - it might change things (one complaint letter = about 1,000 emails in the real world, they know you are serious when it is in writing and arrives in the mail en masse).

If we got 100 people to line up at each and every EPIII premiere with identical protest t-shirts on and then refuse to enter the cinema when they open the doors... who knows.... it would get media coverage, journalists would try to ask Gerogie boy about it, the message may even get through.....
But we are all too lethargic to take a *serious* amount of time out and take real action. So we complain to each other, make ourselves feel better and take action in the least likely to succeed ways, and just make our own versions.

*SIGH*

/end rant/
Post
#83176
Topic
Lucasfilm acknowledging fan hate
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/83176/action/topic#83176
Time
I doubt that there has ever been any director who could turn fans away to the point that they would spend thousands of dollars of their own money to return the films to their original state and get them on DVD.
I mean seriously, the amt of money and time put in by everyone here, on the various projects that were never created to be 'sold' is incredible.
All just to get ouselves a decent copy of a beloved movie on DVD, the way it was when we saw it. It still amazes me that he can't acknowledge that and put out a basic OT transfer by subscription only or something - even though he now hates those versions, it would be a nice gesture in the vein of "You people spent a crapload of mony on my stuff over the years, so here is what you want as a reward", even if we had to pay a premium for it.

But hey, look at the upside, we have created a vibrant community of people dedicated to doing just that...
Post
#83100
Topic
Info Wanted: a Pre-ANH edit of Ep IV?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/83100/action/topic#83100
Time
edit: Removed unnecessary flaming comment

I *am* talking about seamless branching. I didn't say everyone could do it, I said there are tools available to do it on PCs, so the tools are available to everyone. If you can't do it, then you are doing something wrong - we do it a lot and it works - seamlessly. Have you tried to do it? Give it a go and see how you go.

Now some early MGM titles reportedly didn't do it properly, that is correct. (Though all the ones I have work fine).
But hey some commercial titles have crappy layer changes too, some commercial DVDs have crappy telecine and bad colour grading. Does this mean that correct telecine, good colour grading, perfect layer changes can't be done? No.

The Robocop R2 set works perfectly on my gear, as does the T2 edition, not even a stutter at the branches. If your DVD player isn't up to the task I suggest you replace it with one that meets the full spec. It may be a bit short on RAM.

In general if a DVD player pauses on a layer change, then it will definately pause on a branch as well.



Post
#83099
Topic
.: The Zion DVD Project :. (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/83099/action/topic#83099
Time
The captured image show from the Japanese set does have some loss of detail on the guys right shoulder (near the gun) vs the NTSC one. However the whites are much better and the detail in the eye (around the iris) is better. I am worried that there is actually less detail in the shadow areas on the Japanese set.
There was no need for TooT, the X0 laser doesn't falter on rot, even on severly rotted discs.
Post
#83089
Topic
.: The X0 Project Discussion Thread :. (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/83089/action/topic#83089
Time

I have posted some early tests at www.mudgee.net/ot/
Nothing too exciting, just some frame tests, all very early stuff, just thought I’d throw it up there to stop the flood of PMs asking about it.

Be aware, if your monitor is not calibrated some images will look far too dark. Load them into photoshop and adjust your monitor until you can see the detail in dark areas to get some idea. Zoom in on them and compare to see what I am on about.

Enjoy.

Post
#83086
Topic
Info Wanted: a Pre-ANH edit of Ep IV?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/83086/action/topic#83086
Time
I think you've got the wrong end of the stick DanielB.

The DVD format does cater quite nicely for seamless branching, unfortunately not all drives support it (some have a bit of trouble if they only have a small memory cache, similar to early drives having a pause at the layer change.)

Also, you can do it at home on a PC or Mac. Programs like TFDVDEdit 3 with DVD SP2 do it at the home level pricing, and Scenarist has supported it forever and it works fine.

It does take a bit of forward planning and knowledge, but it really is not a problem to implement.
Post
#82892
Topic
<strong>The Cowclops Transfers (a.k.a. the PCM audio DVD's, Row47 set) Info and Feedback Thread</strong> (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/82892/action/topic#82892
Time
Hey Daniel, don't tell me you actually want someone to do an edit and change things now?

I understand that laserdisc footage can only look so good, my point in the other post is that on a large screen the laserdiscs look a *lot* better than the current bootlegs out there, that's what got me motivated into doing this stuff in the first place.
The ultimate goal for me is to have something that is indistinguishable from the laserdiscs picture quality wise, with the colour and glitches on the laserdisc repaired. Also to be able to effectively give people the quality of playback that you would get from an exceptional laserdisc player, without them having to go get one. i.e. To have something that won't degrade, that actually looks a little better than the laserdisc, and can be played on standard equipment without having to flip the damn disks
Your set will effectively give people access to the image quality from the legendary '97 player, far better than what most people would get out of their standard players!
Whether it can be achieved is another matter, but hey - we all love a challenge. Anything that is an improvement on the current bootleg sets will be welcomed with open arms.
Some screenshots would be great!
Post
#82868
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/82868/action/topic#82868
Time
I think we can forget about the 97 LDs and use the SDTV rips that are out there, they are far far better quality than what is on the laserdiscs.
I have another project going in addition to 'The X0 Project' (TM) lol.
I am going to keep that name as so many different people are going to be responsible for bringing it to fruition that I'm not going to stick my name on it as 'mine'.

I will be able to post screenshots from both projects next week.

Bare in mind that my main aim here is to archive the trilogy in the best way possible, not anything else as such. Just getting the best source footage possible - The rest will be up to you guys.
Post
#82867
Topic
<strong>The Cowclops Transfers (a.k.a. the PCM audio DVD's, Row47 set) Info and Feedback Thread</strong> (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/82867/action/topic#82867
Time
(Disclaimer When saying 'you' in the following comments, I mean anyone doing this stuff, not "you" as in any particular person. I tried typing it all as "when one does this and one does that, but I sounded like the Queen)

The noise reduction is where I get the rub.
If you apply heavy noise reduction, then of course you can compress the image more - you are effectively 'posterising' the image, so creating larger areas of block colour, and therby making it more compressible.

Of course if you process an image to throw a lot of its detail away, then you won't see any quality difference between medium vs high bitrates *because the quality was already thrown out in the first step*. I now understand why there is no difference between DVD5 and DVD9 on your set.
With a good player and disc set, the noise is almost non-existent except for where it should be there (i.e. film grain)

The problem with noise reduction is that it always throws away *some* detail. No matter how good it is, it is impossible for an algorithm to fully discern between actual noise, and say, the subtle weave pattern of the fabric of a costume, fine detail in a cloud and film grain for instance. This usually looks fine on an average 20" TV, but on a big screen it looks soft, posterised and awful.
For example, if you are getting dot crawl then that needs to be fixed at the capture stage - if you try to fix it later with filters then you are once again throwing out detail along with the noise.

I agree that applying sharpening filters etc. in most cases causes problems in the other direction, it can emphasize any noise or abberations in the source footage. Colour grading is an important step though, as it is off on the original laserdiscs and can be brought into line for a much better result that actually improves the image without introducing other issues.
I enjoyed the original TR47 set, it was the first time I heard of DVD bootlegs, and was what got me involved in the first place but thought its video quality was its biggest problem. Your new set should be a huge leap over the old just by using the 97 and a capture card rather than DV capture. The CLD97 is a great unit. It still introduces some noise, as does the asus card, but far far better overall than the previous setup. It should look great.

I don't think anyone will scoff at not using an X0, (whoever does, feel free to donate one to the cause) but if you want to know what you would gain by going to the X0, its mostly greatly reduced noise, zero sparkle artifacts, and absolutely no comb issues. The laser machanism really picks up exactly what is on the disc, even if it is somewhat damaged. They are available, but they are outrageously expensive, the cheapest I have seen one lately is 3 Grand, so for most of us, borrowing one is the only option. The other option is to pick up a CLD-2950 and a PAL set of disks, it gives you better quality than the CLD-97 NTSC setup, but the difference is quite small indeed.

Everyone here needs to remember that all of us trying to save the OT in the best possible way do so out of our own pockets, many of us have sunk a horrible, wife unmentionable amount of money into trying to do this