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Kurgan

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29-Jan-2006
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29-Aug-2015
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Post
#307474
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/307474/action/topic#307474
Time
Originally posted by: adywan
Ok. here's the newely created arm. Glow & smoke Fx haven't been added yet
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2139/cantinaarm3bbt6.jpg

Originally posted by: adywan
or here's a very, very quick composite of the human arm ( and yes i know its the wrong hand but i can't take a photo of my right hand until the wife gets home. )
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9631/cantinaarmdiffayp5.jpg


Wow, I'm not sure which one I like better! I'd love to see what NormanS has in mind (below was the latest, FIXED):

Originally posted by: NormanS
I hate to bring this up again. After reading adywans reply, I felt I should totally remove any indication to the thumb and I have gone back to my original reference, I have also changed the light direction as he suggested. I'm done now. I won't do the smoke, as it's too time consuming, and I don't even know if my work is going anywhere (I will do whatever is needed, if ady asks me to). If anyone is ever going to do their own edit and want my CG flipper hand in, just let me know. It would be cool if ady wanted my CG flipper, but that's up to him. We still have to see his new version!

Anyway, this is hopefully the last post regarding pondababa's hand that you will hear from me.

EDIT: Oops! adywan just posted the new flipper hand!

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/9286/newhandcomparison3mn2.jpg




Ady, if you would, can you please include whichever version you don't use as a deleted extra on the DVD-9? That'd be awesome and guaranteed to please everyone (who could then splice in their own chosen version).

(A branching option would be even better, but... hehehe!)


PS: I'd like to order one of those "I survived the great flipper debate of '08" t-shirts! I'll take a large.
Post
#307390
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/307390/action/topic#307390
Time
Is it just my bad memory, or in the original version did the original music swell just as Obi-wan is closing his eyes and putting his saber up? (before Vader delivers the slo mo killing blow) Or is it during his grin as he's glancing back at Luke?

If so, that would be more poigniant than the "climax" of the prequel music followed by the music coming in during the slow mo of the clothing falling.

Can somebody confirm?
Post
#307290
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/307290/action/topic#307290
Time
NormanS, Df Shadow, now THAT is much cooler. It's coming along!

This reminds me of the difference between 1997 CG Jabba and 2004 CG Jabba... more detail and definition added to make it seem more real.

We never see closeups of Ponda Boba's hands before, but you imagine he wouldn't have perfectly immaculate hands. Scars, wrinkles and that sort of thing are perfectly in keeping with his personality. I think a little more shaping of the flipper to make it more shaped like a hand would go even further. The details added thus far are a definite improvement.


A little more weathering, pores, small hairs, etc. would help get rid of the "rubber" look, and still preserve the fact that it's a flipper and not a human hand (but still suggest it to the audience). The scorching should be darker, right now it looks like it could just be a shadow (I realize it was just a quick PS job).


Now here is another radical suggestion... perhaps the gun itself could be modified so it looks like something that could be used by somebody with "hands" like this? I'm thinking get rid of the trigger finger guard?
Post
#307265
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/307265/action/topic#307265
Time
Nice job on the CG, it looks great! I thought at first I'd hate the "red" DS graphics (too much pandering to the so-so AOTC), but they've already grown on me. I suppose it's a good high contrast color for vector graphics (rather than making it say, blue or something).

The TIEs look fantastic. It's so awesome that the amateur 3d models of today look as good as the professional 3d models of 1997!



Norman: It's looking better. I think you're on the right track with making the shape more defined (rather than an amorphous blob). I'd say if you can, contour the "top" of it more, so perhaps we get the hint of the "thumb" portion so it appears like it could be a type of hand. That would be more believable. The costume glove would be just rubber, but if it were a real creature you'd expect some more contouring and that it wouldn't completely retain it's shape after it'd been sliced off and tumble to the ground. More subtle texturing also helps.

Perhaps something can be done about the "burnt off stump" to make it appear a little crisper? It appears a little too blurry right now. And the smoke perhaps could be done a little more convincingly?

Finally, it still looks a little too "clean." I know you guys all want the blood completely gone, but perhaps some ash chunks that have broken off from the stump as it hit the floor? After all, if this weapon creates a cut with 3rd degree burns along the edge, it'd be like charcoal, and that stuff crumbles off when struck.

What else? I half thought it would be cool to have the thing twitch or something (that'd show us it was truly a hand!). But maybe that's too hard to do.
Post
#307248
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/307248/action/topic#307248
Time
Originally posted by: Owen-Lars-Kenobi
Wonderful work ady. Really, watching your edit was the most fun I've had it years. That said, I do have some (hopefully) constructive criticism.

I have to say, that I think I agree with Max_Rebo. I can't see how Ponda Baba's arm ended up on the floor at all. I think a major reason why my mind is led to this conclusion is because in the brief aftermath of the arm cutting (before the music returns), a human voice (that sounds very much like Evazan IMO) can be heard groaning in terrible pain. No such grunting alien voice can be heard. In earnest, I think the shot should be changed to be the good doctor's arm.

Now I mean this with no disrespect, but I think you may have overdone it a tad (just a tad) with the desaturating of things in general. Am I the only one who thinks this? All I'm saying is that I think the colors lacked definition at times.

I would also like to express how much I enjoyed the new sound mix, BRILLIANT! I think that your sound work is responsible for many of my goose-bump moments. I loved the use of the emperor's theme (perfect!), and I was just so flat out impressed with the new Obi/Vader duel.

Well done ady, well done!



You do have a point. One time I really noticed it was the discontinuity between the Death Star floors. In the 2004 edit, most (all?) of the Death Star hangar shots were changed to more closely match the shots of the DS II hangars in ROTJ. The floor has stripes on it, walls have little hubs and lights, etc. The floor of the DS when Luke, Leia, etc are looking out that "view portal" and see the ship below before they escape for instance has a very dark floor, but in the earlier shots when the Falcon is first being brought in and so forth, the floor is light gray, bringing out the "black and white" look much more strongly. I agree that the blue tint had to go, but I see your point.

Actually I was part way through the movie and thought that the sound sucked... the dialog was too quiet, often being drowned out by the music, and so scenes like the "Imperial boardroom" were bad. But then when I switched from PowerDVD 5 to Media Player Classic, the sound problems disappeared. The overall volume was louder and the music and dialog were separated just enough.
Post
#307240
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/307240/action/topic#307240
Time
Originally posted by: Sevb32
But the point is Kurgan, you cannot please everyone, he cannot make a custom one for everyone. Everyone has their own style and opinions. He could do this forever and never do enough variations to please everyone.


Oh I agree sev, but you have to realize that no amount of suggestions, criticisms or even flames will stop Adywan or any other editor from doing what he wants. All that prevents him from doing this is his own investment of time and talent (and money) and some unforeseen disaster (catastrophic hard drive failure, cease and desist order, etc). Even if people demand he do X, Y, or Z, he doesn't have to do it. Nobody expects him to make every change and take every suggestion someone makes.

But as long as he is putting his work out there and asking for feedback, he'll be getting some, what he does with that is his choice.

So I don't think I'm being selfish for making suggestions of what *I* think needs fixing or what *I* think would be good. No more so than the folks who say "keep it the same, it's perfect, release it!" as many people are already doing. These same folks either don't care about the quality (they'll accept whatever they are given, much like the fans who said each special edition was perfect, and defended GL with the same rhetoric, though a bit stronger because "it's his film") and so won't be bothered either way if our suggestions get used or not... or else they are just of the opinion that they want it release as soon as possible.

Look, we ALL want it released instantly, but we all also want it to be the best it can be. There are dozens of edits of Star Wars out there, so we don't have to "settle" for something that is just one or two minor changes. We've already seen the Darth Editous/ADM edit and that's set the bar. One bad looking shot that stands out from an otherwise phenomenal edit hurts the overall presentation. Sure, you might say "it's only one shot" but then people said that to defend the Greedo scene in the SE's too (not that this is as bad as that by any means, but I hope you see my point).

So please, if anyone feels they need to silence me or anyone else from making a suggestion, for fear it will create further delays or turn ady off the project, please don't freak out. Chances are there won't be such an extensive edit of Star Wars in a long, long, long time, so we might as well get those issues out now. If we just clam up now, what are we hoping for, that two days after his DVD-9 release, somebody will create "Star Wars Revisited 1.01" with that one shot fixed? That'd be silly. We can risk "hurting his feelings" and make the suggestion now and perhaps he'll be able to improve it and then there will be no need for somebody to create such a superfulous edit right afterwards.

Unless you think the shot is already perfect and can't stand to "lose" how it is now... but again I'm thinking the main objectors will be happy with anything ady puts his stamp of approval on, am I right? I don't mean to sound condescending there. He's not mini-George Lucas!
Post
#307205
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/307205/action/topic#307205
Time
Originally posted by: Fuser
lol - I forgot there was a battle droid to find too! I havent found George yet - though I was looking for old George...

Ady - the flipper: initially I admit it 'threw me' as it looked really odd - but I think that is because I wasnt expecting it.
I've quickly flicked back a few frames though and it is pigfacedude pointing the blaster - which then ends up on the floor. Its obviously a fault with the original - they must have forgotten who was supposed to be shooting - but if you look at the sequence of events, it is the human who gives Luke some stick, then he throws Luke to the floor and brings out a blaster, Obi-Wan lights up and swings, and it is the human who falls back first. So really, it should be his arm on the floor I reckon!

I think maybe I'm getting too anal here, but I just got out the novelisation which reads "the man found himself lying prone against the bar, moaning and whimpering as he stared at the stump of an arm"

I'm afraid I think the only totally correct solution here would be somehow to have the humans arm down there. But even the gun on the floor doesnt match the one that was drawn. And frankly, I really dont think it matters. As you've pointed out, the flipper now matches what was seen earlier - and the cauterised stump makes far more sense.

All the advice I would offer is this - if it bothers YOU, change it. If not - leave it!


I think making the flipper look more like it did in the early Cantina cut (from the Behind the Magic CD-ROM) would be the best.

At least it looked more like a hand (a rubber mitten, the same type of flipper you see, but tilted slightly, so you can see that it's flat, without creating the illusion that it's a sphere of gray-green rubber at the end of the stump) that could hold something (though pulling the trigger is another matter). Sure, the human hand would be most realistic, but ady is dead set on putting Ponda Boba's hand in there (it's the orange sleeves!). The shot doesn't look as good as it could, and on that we agree. I think we all knew he was going to replace it, so we just want it to look the best it can! He shortened the sleeve and added some smoke (that looks kinda fakey, now that I think about it, like one of those home-made fake videos about somebody getting their hand cut off by a saber, the smoke is too thick and white or doesn't move realistically, I don't know, but the smoke is just a touch, the real problem is the way the flipper looks on "camera").


Agreed about the feedback. Ady wouldn't have to ask for feedback. He could have just posted his edit and that would have been it. Why even bother with the forums? Though it's his call, he does care somewhat about what people think or notice, or he wouldn't bother being here. Most of the people here don't seem to mind too much if the release is delayed somewhat (even if we all really want it "right here, right now" delivered in a big shiny box, heh), if it means it will be that much more improved, as it's already had so many delays. People are excited and hope he leaps immediately into ESB and ROTJ, but again, that's up to him (do I really have the patience to wait two more years to see the fixed Rancor/sabers/emperor's slugs/matte boxes corrected w/out Hayden, "Wesa Fwee!" and the bad colors? yikes! still, if somebody is doing it, that's cool with me).

But adywan isn't lacking in the support department. At best one or two people bad mouthed him and there's over a hundred pages of positive comments on here. There's people who will say he's awesome and love whatever he puts out. But many have made suggestions, and overall he's been positive in return to the constructive feedback and put a bunch of people from here in the credits! That's cool. So please, the people who fell they need to protect him from constructive feedback, don't worry. Notice how easily he can say "no" to people and shut them down if he disagrees with their ideas. The delays were due to his own initiative (or hardware failures), not because he got discouraged from somebody making too many suggestions or phrasing them wrong (I admit though, the "prima donna developer" is a perennial problem on the internet... many creative people seem to have fragile egos... but ady is above that).

The NTSC DVD-9 is still "many weeks away" (a month (?) after the other DVD's which are "weeks away") so I for one don't mind waiting if it'll be better. Right now the Panda hand is the one edit that stands out as "hey, look at me, I'm different, but not quite believable!" The wolfman hand may be "wrong" but it looks better, much more natural. So.... good luck!
Post
#307145
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/307145/action/topic#307145
Time
Originally posted by: Sevb32
As for the blood, the saber cortorizes the wound so there would be no blood. here's a snapshot from the holiday special that shows his flipper, even though the colouring is different to that in ANH because of the lighting:


True, but I also thought that maybe certain species' bodies in the SW Universe have something about their bodies that somehow won't cauterize". Although I fine with it either way.


And let's not forget that Darth Maul bleeds, so the "sabers always cauterize wounds completely" isn't 100%.

The Aquilash costume is slightly different in the photo (from the SWHS I take it?), for instance the sleeves are cut short and he's got that shirt underneath.
Post
#307136
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/307136/action/topic#307136
Time
It looks sped up, but I guess without a side by side comparison it's really hard to tell. Then again in 2004 many people thought the fight was sped up too... wishful thinking on our part I suppose. I assumed it was PAL because I thought people were saying the previously released clips were PAL.

My bad on Vader's title... so it was changed in 1997 to just "Darth Vader" (credits were unchanged in 2004).

If it could just be a little less round, like in the shot above, that's what I'm saying. The hands may have that bulbous look to them, but when the "palm" is tilted, they're skinny looking (notice when he pushes Luke's shoulder). As is it looks like they're big huge things (obviously the actor was wearing rubber mittens). Your call, of course...


PS: Spotted the battle droid, and it looks good, very unobtrusive. But I'm at a loss where Georgie is. Is it "old George" or "young George"? Give us a hint!
Post
#307132
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/307132/action/topic#307132
Time
Yeah but it looks dumb. The viewer doesn't have time to worry about that, all they see is this blob coming out of the sleeve and are like "huh" (kind of like a softened version of the "huh" moment when Greedo shoots in the '97 version). Unless they know the character well or were paying close attention to his hands (instead of to his face like you naturally would), it's going to just be a strange shot.

To fix the problem, just view it from the side instead of from the top and it's easier to tell it's a hand (mitten shaped, rather than appearing like a ball).

This is honest criticism... I'm sure he wanted feedback. Anyway, that was the one downside of this release for me.


PS: Here is what it looked like originally (pre-1977):

http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/plugins/p17_image_gallery/images/61.jpg

Tilt it a little more to the side and you'll have what I'm getting at. It's just a little too round and undefined like a blob, currently.
Post
#307125
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/307125/action/topic#307125
Time
Well, it's PAL, so it's naturally 5% faster, right?


Seriously though, I want to join the other gushers for a minute and say fantastic job.

Now that I've seen the whole thing, the parts that really stand out as improved over either special edition are the tie battles and the saber battle. The Alderaan explosion looks very cool, and I thought the DS explosion would be cheesy but it was still effective.

There is one part I didn't like though. Sure a few creative changes I disagreed with but could handle (I thought I would HATE the prequel music insertions and the Imperial march, but they were used sparingly and well... the music edit for Obi-Wan's death was slightly less effective, but I could deal with it; the missing Jabba scene, well I realize why you took it out, it's too much work to fix and deserves to be a deleted scene for curiosity, nothing more) but this next item... ugh, it just looked bad (and I say that considering the high quality of virtually every other change).


The "flipper" from Ponda Boba. I had to pause and take a look at it. I imagine someone seeing this for the first time would be like "wtf am I looking at?" making the shot a distraction. It's like an orange tube with a half inflated gray balloon at the end. It doesn't look like anything that could hold a gun, much less like an actual appendage. Sure, wolfman's hand was out of place, but at least it looked like a hand and the blood made it perfectly clear that this was a severed limb that Obi-Wan must have cut off, in the quick action seconds before.

I guess you could take a look at the "lost scene" of the Cantina to get a glimpse of what the flipper is supposed to look like. Perhaps it needs more curvature and a thumb to make it look more like an alien hand? Something. The shot just looks crappy. No offense...

But beyond THAT, the rest of the shots look seemless, and amazing. It's hard to believe that the amateur tech of today looks as good as the Lucasfilm tech of 11 years ago!

Great job. Now if you could just fix the spelling errors and the cut off hand on the DVD, this would truly be a masterpiece!

PS: I didn't see the battle droid or George Lucas yet, but that's okay, I wasn't looking hard.

PPS: It was "Lord Darth Vader" in the credits originally, but I realize you must have changed it to be in keeping with "Darth" as a Sith title in the prequels, rather than his first name.
Post
#307086
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/307086/action/topic#307086
Time
Seeding. I'm going to get some snacks and enjoy this...

Thanks Adywan, for releasing it (the few bits I've snuck looks at thus far look fantastic, even in those low quality format).


Bring on the DVD releases!!!





PS: Here's another misspelling from the credits.. it's "Rick McCallum" (not "McAllum")
Post
#307036
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/307036/action/topic#307036
Time
Yeah, but having it on a torrent will get it to more people, easier long term, right? Plus if enough people seed it, it'll be faster... it's slow now because only a few people are seeding the torrent.

I see the torrent is up now, so the "get it now so somebody can seed it on BT" has already been accomplished. Anyway, whatever people want to do...

I'll have it by the time I get home tonight...
Post
#306771
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/306771/action/topic#306771
Time
Originally posted by: Sojourn
Originally posted by: Kurgan
You mean confine spoilers to the first page? Because Ady basically laid out 99% of the changes (except the minor ones he forgot).

What other spoilers could there possibly be? We've all seen "Star Wars." The exact location of the George Lucas cameo?


You're right, to a certain extent; though there are some things Adywan hasn't shown us, like the new Death Star explosion, some new shots in the DS battle, [/quote]

Newer than the one in the previously released clip? I guess I missed that detail.

[quote]
the new severed arm in the cantina, etc. He's also said that he's kept some things secret so that we'll be surprised -- it's mainly those things that I wouldn't want to have ruined for me or anyone else ("OMG Ady, I loved the new Ewoks and Jar-Jar dancing scene as part of the extended Cantina musical number!"), since we won't know they're coming. As I said, it was just an idea I was throwing out there; if nothing happens with it, no worries.

Take care,
Sojourn


Doesn't really bother me, but whatever. I guess when it comes out don't click on the thread until you've watched it.

Looking back, when the real Special Editions came out, all the "big surprises" (well, other than greedo shooting first, ugh) were spoiled in the trailers. I was totally anti-spoiler for the prequels though (but the originals? I've already seen the movies, so it's only a few visual/audio effects that will be "surprises").


As for DVD-9. I can burn them, I've just never seen the blank media for sale in stores. I'd have to order some online. But I'm not going to order some until I have a better idea when it's actually coming out...
Post
#306739
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/306739/action/topic#306739
Time
You mean confine spoilers to the first page? Because Ady basically laid out 99% of the changes (except the minor ones he forgot).

What other spoilers could there possibly be? We've all seen "Star Wars." The exact location of the George Lucas cameo?

Me, I'd rather be able to show people screen caps and tell them what's in this, than have to worry about blabbing it, but that's me.


So I might actually be able to see this thing over the weekend? Cool. I was thinking it was going to be February...


I'm going to hold off on the back patting until it's actually confirmed as watchable off the 'net (or a playable disc arrives). Still might be possible to jinx it! (j/k)


(somebody get those "Man up" guys from MadTV in here to stave off any bad luck hiccups in the 11th hour)
Post
#306584
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/306584/action/topic#306584
Time
Originally posted by: Dantha Fodder
Originally posted by: Owen-Lars-Kenobi
Just thought I might post a preview of my dvd cover for this project.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/867/foradywanvq7.jpg


Can I just say I love this cover? Stunning. Simply stunning.



Whenever somebody posts a DVD cover they've done, it looks like the image above, with the cover folded like that. Is this a template view in some kind of program? Because I'd like to know what people are using to create that preview image.

Thanks! I've asked this before and nobody answered. I guess it's something I'm not supposed to know?
Post
#306234
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/306234/action/topic#306234
Time
Originally posted by: DarthBo
I'll be keeping my 2004 dvd so I can run it back to back with Adywan's version to try and spot all the differences. Now that I think about it, I could turn it into a game... Make your family/friends watch the same scene from both versions and whoever finds the most changes wins...
Or would that be too sad?


Maybe there will be a WookieeGroomer style "split screen" version done with the 2004's and Adywan's eventual release?