Knightmessenger

Be aware that the different pan and scan releases over the years were sometimes cropped differently and panned across the screen at different times.

So the 2004 dvd version would not be an authentic representation of how it was cropped in the 80's. I don't know if that matters to you or not but I think you should be aware of it.

After the binary sunset scene, the 1992 vhs shifts over rapidly during the wipe and looks really awkward, the 2004 fullscreen dvd shifts after the wipe at a slower rate.

The 1995 THX fullscreen vhs had a lot of panning if I remember. The last shot of the 2004 dvd's was always in letterbox widescreen but only the 1995 full screen version of Jedi did this. In Star Wars there was an awkward pan right at the end instead.

Somebody uploaded the 1995 THX fullscreen vhs to youtube in segments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vuaQlZf6jI

Were the THX versions really the first time they had been mastered digitally? Because it says on the bottom of the old vhs tapes on the back even from the 80's "Digitally Mastered."

Someone here mentioned Digitally Mastered doesn't mean anything these days. I used to think it was special, then I noticed how it was on a lot of old vhs tapes so it's like having a movie with color and sound these days.

What I still don't get is for the One Last Time release, why use the same transfer made 2 years ago? Before any alterations could be made, they had to completely restore the original films. Why wasn't  a new THX master struck from those versions without any changes and used for a new restored transfer?

As long as he puts out the original versions of the trilogy as well as THX 1138 (and maybe even Indiana Jones [wires erased] & Grafitti [opening shot]), I'm fine. I don't think he'd destroying Star Wars by introducing new stuff, it doesn't (have to) mean the previous stuff cannot coexist.

That said, I think Star Wars has run its course and it's time for Lucas to move on to something else. I'm afraid that all the success it had and even doing the prequels have taken away either the opportunity or the desire or both to work on something different. I think Lucas has talked about other ideas he's had during interviews, I'd like to see him try some of those.

(Or at the very least, something besides what happens between episodes II and III. Seriously, how much do you have to drag out that aspect of the series? Why don't we ever hear much about what happened between I and II. That spanned 10 years and why couldn't Anakin have freed his mother then? Or between the prequels and the originals, when is that going to happen?)

Wow, I didn't realize how long this forum topic has been going until I reread my post from late 2007 on page 1. In the beginning, it sounded like a really cool idea but that can be very hard to realize, will they get good interviews or good people to interview? Easier said than done.

However, after watching the trailers, listening to some of the people you were able to interview and seeing some excerpts, I am tremendously impressed. I think you guys know exactly what you're doing and how to get it right in terms of addressing controversy involving passionate fans yet still maintaining professionalism. I was very pleased that the interview segments you shot were in sharp focus, had good lighting contrast and were exposed well. Just what I've seen so far, I'm amazed you were able to get, both in terms of permission and logistics. Some of the interviews excerpted in the trailers are even in another language. This looks like it will be very interesting to see even (and maybe especially) for those who haven't paid as much attention to all the debates among fans, or even those who aren't even into to Star Wars at all. The best thing about allowing the fans to respond is that you enable the average person to have a voice without doing a lot of work or needing to be a video whiz. I think many people here have dreamed of asking people involved with the films what they think and your project allows us to do that, without having to do the work ourselves.

I do notice that the footage is all in widescreen which is fine, it's your choice but I do hope that any footage originally in standard has been pillarboxed. I didn't hear about the project in time to submit a video but I think it would have helped if you put reminders about copyright in the guidelines. For example, someone might have wanted to use footage from the Greedo scene to illustrate their point and not realize that would mean legal issues with including it in your video. In fact, I assume your project was not able to include any footage from the actual movies, making of specials, or even the Holiday Special. Is that correct? What about fan parodies? And you probably didn't want people to burn in any graphics such as their name either, that would be done by your team to maintain consistency and editing flexibility. 

My only other thing I can possibly find to complain about is that for your tips on fan submissions, I wish your site had more about how to obtain a good looking video. Such as using the manual focus and manual exposure if the camera has them. I cringe at fuzzy, washed out video so I guess giving people more hints about how to avoid that would have been pleasing to me.

One other thing I'd like to point out is that I'm don't feel the picture is completely accurate after Adywan's miraculous fixes. I think it still looks too good with too much contrast. Now, I didn't see them in the theatre but I always had the impression these movies were always somewhat grainy without a lot of high contrast. In this shot, I don't think the hairs around Yoda's head should stand out that much nor should the white fog on the ground be that white.

[IMG]http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7832/97116910.png[/IMG]

Not only was this release oversaturated, darkened and colored wrongly, I think it also had contrast boosting applied and too much grain was removed. I don't want a 30 year old film to look like it was shot yesterday on HD video.

Any screenshots of actual movies that were colorized badly which Lucas spoke out against. Like a split screen of the black and white and the altered version. Then another split screen of of an original shot with a horrible miscolored shot from the special edition to say don't recolor films either.

There should be a stronger movement to stop Lowry Digital from screwing with color timing like a kid who's just learning photoshop.

I did not have any problem whatsoever with compression artifacts on the original version dvd's. I even got to view them on my vcr/dvd combo which has a zoom feature and even magnified to the max, they still look pretty good without pixelation. And this dvd player does not have nearly as sharp a playback as other ones I have. Just not that detailed because it is a letterbox and not a 16x9 scan of course. So I'd drop that line.

Just found this facebook group. I'm surprised it only has 4 members.

http://www.facebook.com/search/?init=srp&sfxp&o=69&q=special+edition+star+wars&s=10#/group.php?gid=215125406175&ref=search&sid=36201411.2572306283..1

I will not buy "Star Wars" on Blu Ray unless it has the original edition

There's also a group called "Han Shot First" and "Adywan's Empire Revisted" but well, I can't think of anything else to say.

Faketrix and Bored of The Rings were the titles used by MAD Magazine for their parodies.

TV's Frink said:

Knightmessenger said:

Has anyone seen the reviews of the upcoming Lord of the Rings blu-ray? They are being utterly bashed because they are not including both cuts, just the theatrical. One reviewer even titled his comments "Let this also serve as a warning to George Lucas."

The two shouldn't be compared.  Jackson is not refusing to release the original films - in fact, that's exactly what he is doing.  Additionally, I have no idea why these people are complaining in the first place.  It's almost certain that the extended versions will be following on Blu-ray at some point.  Everybody wins...

Yes but it's very poor not to just release a set that allows you to pick either cut and includes all the existing bonus material from the 3 dvd releases. The bonus discs will reportedly be just the same dvd's from the original 2 disc theatrical editions repackaged. The extended editions weren't released at the same time on dvd because they actually needed more time to finish the additional scenes. Now that both versions are done, there's no need to drag it out.

It just has me thinking, if people are this pissed off about a poor release (even though the version they want is certain to be available at some point), don't you think this is a good sign about what will happen if the Star Wars movies don't include their original theatrical editions at all?

Sluggo said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

It's not a step in the right direction, because there's no reason to think it's sign that it's a step towards getting the OOT on blu-ray. Any other Star Wars on blu-ray is useless.

 Ditto.  Unless it is the OOT, I ain't buying it.

xhonzi said:

I bought the 2004 DVDs because I felt I had to.  I think I can firmly agree with these other sentiments here: If it's the same crap as what has been going on with the SE, I will not buy.

captainsolo said:

I wouldn't be surprised either. If the Blu is indeed the 2004, at the very least it should be color corrected to look more like the actual film (at least restored to the 97 look like Adywan's ANH and ESB.) and have all the nagging visual and audio problems fixed. (Why the heck didn't they just clean up the 97SE version-at least that is watchable!)

A Star Wars Blu-Ray should include restored theatrical originals with as many soundtracks as are available and the 1997 Special Editions with the 1997 5.1 mix. Any other final cut can be an extra. Deleted Scenes should finally be included as well as alternate takes etc. It's not like we haven't waited since the birth of home video for a truly "definitive collection".

I won't buy the thing if it is just the 2004's all over again. I still remember the gut punch the night of September 21st 2004.

ESHBG said:

Until I see a *TRUE* OOT restoration out there (no crappy Laserdisc rip, non-anamorphic crap either), they don't get another dime from me...

thecolorsblend said:

This could be a good opportunity for LFL to make amends on some things.  Throw in the OOT (bonus points if they include the mono, stereo/surround and 6-track soundtracks!) and also include George's latest "original vision".  It'd be neat if they threw in commentary from Kurtz, Kasdan, Kazananjaijanianajakasajianwhatever, Oz, Hamill and maybe Ken Ralston or some other effects guys on the OOT discs or something.

Shit, all I really care about is just getting the OOT.  Bonus stuff is not even under consideration anymore.

 I agree with all of you here. I didn't actually have Star Wars on any video format in 2004 so I figured asking for the dvd set for Christmas was a good way to get those movies with the best possible picture and sound. So much for that idea.

I don't care much about bonus features anymore. If the new set does not have the original movies restored, I'm not buying.

Without the OOT, I will additionally leave a 1-star review on amazon and encourage everyone else to do the same.

Has anyone seen the reviews of the upcoming Lord of the Rings blu-ray? They are being utterly bashed because they are not including both cuts, just the theatrical. One reviewer even titled his comments "Let this also serve as a warning to George Lucas."

PaulisDead2221 said:

Speaking of inconsistencies... (I'm sure a lot of these have come up before)

AOTC:
Explain why Nute Gunray wants Padme's head on a plate before he'll sign the separatist treaty when she's the leader of the opposition to the mobilization of a military against it? Man, I understand that Darth Sidious needs the separatist movement to threaten the Republic so he can create an army, gain emergency powers and scare the republic into giving him full control of the galaxy because he wants power and Lucas wants to do a little social commentary on current government politics... so why couldn't he have been behind the assasination attempt? Instead the separatists all want her dead. What?

 I still don't understand the plot of Clones. I don't know why they wanted to kill Padme, don't understand what the separtists wanted her when she was actually in agreement of conferring disagreement with her... no wait actually, argggh never mind!

In my opinion, the worst thing a movie can be is confusing and just lose me. Even if I think it's doing a bad job, I can give some credit if I know what it's supposed to accomplish. Jar Jar was supposed to be funny. It didn't work but at least I know what Lucas intended there. Mainly for this reason, Clones is the worst Star Wars movie because even if you're a fan of the OT, the EU and even the other prequels, it still might leave you lost. And if you're not into Star Wars, then forget it.

Vaderisnothayden said:

 It's all part of the same revisionist bullshit as Annie having more midichlorians than anybody and being the bestest jedi ever and being the Chosen One (and here I thought that was Buffy), complete with a goddamn prophecy...

 Actually it is Buffy. Along with Link, Jack (from Legend), Harry Potter, Neo, Frodo, Sailor Moon... and probably a whopping list of many more I missed (Kid in King Arthur's Court?) who all were explicitly told (because it couldn't be just shown in a way for the audience to figure it out on their own) that they were the only hope for all.

And most of those other series I still like with the exception of The Faketrix (too confusing, just like Clones!) and Bored of the Rings (WTF is with the weird lack of color and monochrome tints?) But this whole Chosen One crap is an overused cliche of something that was never that clever or original in the first place. If the main character hero is the only one who can defeat the bad guy, actions should gradually reveal this, it shouldn't be a lame info dump of exposition.

Gaffer Tape said:

I've said before that, from a purely filmmaking standpoint, this addition is probably the worst in the entire Special Edition.  Yes, there are things that are dumber and more agonizing from a fan standpoint, but, aside from the addition of the Jabba scene, there is no other part of the SE that RUINS THE PACING as much as this.  The Falcon is rushing back to save Luke, the music is pumping, the TIEs are closing in... AND THE FILM JUST FUCKING STOPS SO WE CAN WATCH VADER ARRIVE ON HIS SHIP?!  Whose crack-addled brain came up with that one?!

 Yeah, it's one of the least talked about alterations but it's really one of the worst changes. It makes you wonder how Lucas was ever successful at all because it demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge over pacing and basic filmmaking in general. The first time I actually watched Empire straight through was after getting the 2004 set and I seem to remember being confused as to why Vaders big ship looked identical to the second Death Star. The film might have well gone to a commercial break. "We interrupt the conclusion of Empire Strikes Back for this paid promotional segment by the Empire." God I wish Nostalgia Critic would just tear into that.

The music editing is really horrible too, it just abruptly goes back to the music when Vader reveals he's Luke's father.

If you have the 1997 version, you can also compare how much blue tinted it was in 2004.

Another Empire edit that bothers me (which no one else points out either). Lando frees Chewbacca who starts choking Lando. Leia says "You think after what you did to Han we're going to trust you?"

In the 2004 audio mix, Chewbacca's growl comes in sooner completely drowing out "trust you" from Leia.

"You think after what you did to Han, we're going to- garrragggaahhh"

I think the prequels had a lot of other competition going against them. Even though they had groundbreaking visual effects (esp episode I), Matrix won in 1999 and Lord of the Rings won visual effects oscar in 2002. I didn't remember 2005 until Wikipedia told me it was King Kong. Revenge of the Sith wasn't even among the 3 nominated. The prequels found themselves in a much more crowded field than the originals.

So even if a lot of kids liked the new Star Wars movies, it's hard to believe many of them were raised by Star Wars or those movies were their lives. I think this would have been true even if the prequels had been better. 

I'm trying to think of all the other things kids could become preoccupied with during the 90's instead of the Star Wars prequels but I'm drawing a blank besides Nintendo and Pokemon. Okay, there was Nickelodian and cartoon network on cable tv, even Disney had much more memorable animated features like Beauty and the Beast and The Lion King. http://www.crazyabouttv.com/decades/1990s.html

But is it because I wasn't alive back in the 70's so I don't remember or was there just not as much other stuff to get interested in besides Star Wars? I mean if the Holiday Special was trying to cram all sorts of 70's tv stuff under a Star Wars banner, I don't know if I want to see more of the stuff from that decade.

So the prequels will not have the same impact the originals did. I don't think they even had a chance.

Interestingly on the youtube upload, I commented on how Lucas was wrong to mention everybody in the first generation went to see episode IV when they really saw Star Wars.

Some guy responded saying I was a retard for not knowing that Episode IV is the first movie and says so in the title scroll. Yeah, maybe it does now but we're talking about back then.

This is unbelievably funny. Is there any more? Would the facebook apps like Mafia Wars change to Imperial/rebel wars?

And about what people are saying in another post regarding Lucas on the Daily Show, whether the prequels will be as remembered in popular culture as the originals. I don't hate the prequels but could anyone imagine status updates for the prequel characters? It just wouldn't be the same.

I was just going to post about this but somebody beat me to it. If only Nostalgia Critic could do a review of the differences between the original, 1997 and 2004 versions of the films. And yell about the color screwups. "A Neon Green Yoda???!!!!" "Blue, let's make fun of blue everyone."* I can only dream.

Doug Walker was at Youmacon this past 2009 and he actually was a guest for the Mystery Science Theatre 4,000 panel. They riffed Masters of the Universe live. It was really cool to see him. After the MST4K, he signed my Youmacon booklet (which I have been unable to find recently):

To James- NEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRR- wait, wrong James.

Doug Walker

*He actually said that when the video was still being set up and the screen was only showing blue. It would be fitting for a review of the '04 dvd's as well. You can see more (including the best MST riffs from Masters of the Universe) on my youtube videos.

Don't forget the commentaries from the 1993 laserdisc set. Even though they only talked during 50% of the movies, I found them more interesting than the 2004 ones.

I'd also like to see an ultimate box set have a lot of features or tributes to the fans and star wars fandom in general. Maybe includes some of the better spoofs and parodies (like Troops) if possible.

There aren't many film franchises where it could be justified having over 3-4 discs of bonus materials but Star Wars is one of them.

Epic Win!

I'd love to see the same thing for On Her Majesty's Secret Service and pretty much any Disney film that got a platinum release besides the Little Mermaid (didn't use Lowry for that one). I think more attention needs to be brought to the fact that a lot of digital "restorations" change the colors and remove so much grain that the movie looks like HD video. I consider that altering the film in the same way as coloring a black and white movie.

Anybody up for an Anti Lowry Film "Restoration" facebook group?

Even Blade Runner had some recoloring issues on the achival versions. I kept my 1997 dvd for that reason despite it being so low quality.

As for the bottom one that 005 mentioned may be too busy, I think it is. At the very least, there is no need to write originaltrilogy.com/petition twice.

Although if someone wants to nitpick, the new petition here simply asks for the original versions restored, while the banner could suggest we want whatever version as long as the colors are proper. Some people unfamiliar with the films might think from the banner that the original versions were released with the wrong colors when that was actually one of the things the unaltered dvd's got right. I don't think it's a big deal but those who would call us "whiny fanboys" might use it as another lame response.

fffffff said:

how about post a video on youtube asking GL to give us a poper release.

It could help.

 

troy

 I think The People vs George Lucas can help with that. Wish I had checked this site before the end of '09, I might have been able to put together a quick video in the midst of my all out editing for other youtube uploads.

Octorox said:

There is no such thing as an anamorphic blu-ray and there would be really no point to do a whole new transfer and restoration and then just release it on DVD. I'm hoping for something akin to the Blade Runner and Close Encounter's releases, with all 3 cuts (plus the final cut or whatever) via seamless branching.

 Wait, why is there no such thing as anamorphic blu-ray? What happens then with 4:3 standard video on blu-ray. Ever since hearing about the 25/50 gb capacity back in early '06, I have dreamed of having that much space to work with for dubs of my standard definition 4:3 Hi8 and vhs tapes. They could be probably made with no digital compression whatsoever, right?

About the petition. I'm guessing a lot of thought went into making it clear and straighforward without becoming wordy and long. Thanks for making a new one. Was it ever considered to include more requests such as the inclusion of the 1997 special editions and the different audio mixes, the old specials like Star Wars to Jedi? Not to mention having the films with the proper coloring. Or would that have made the petition too long and detract from the big goal of having the originals in a 16x9 widescreen presentation?

Am I seeing this correctly? Did I just miss a chance to get a copy of a rough version of your edit?

Darn.

It seems that the starfield used in '77 was replaced in '81. But then in 1997, the original starfield was used again.

Also, looking at screenshot 1:

http://aptirrelevance.com/otscreenshots/screenshots.php?shot=1

The unaltered dvd's have the moon on the left only half visible like the 2004 versions while every pre special edition ANH has the moon visible in full. Why is that? Does anybody know why the moon looks the same from 2004 and 1977 but not 1981-1995?

And is there any reason to leave the Look transfer up on that page? It looks makedly worse than all the others. 

What can be done? Don't buy any new releases of Star Wars unless they contain the originals. And if the eventual blu-ray set doesn't have the original films, write a negative review on amazon.

But I'm worried. I'm afraid too many people will be happy to see Star Wars in any form on blu-ray that they won't care that it's yet another tamperered with version yet still has the same color and sound issues from 2004. Many online review sites (like the Digital Bits) gave the 2004 set high marks for the picture quality. I hate to tell sites what to write but I think there needs to be more effort to show that the 2004 versions from a technical standpoint (ignoring the issue of all the changes) were still an abomination.

Adywan's revisted is a good chance to show examples of since he did an amazing job with color correction. There need to be more examples like this split screen video that show how screwed up the dvd's were. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coypgsWo4Rg

There have been various posts and examples all over the internet about the terrible 2004 quality. But it would be nice to have it all in one organized place. Similar to the screenshot page here but for all three movies and only with the best transfers from each video release. (no need to see 5 different laserdisc transfers from the same '93 set)

My suggestion would be:

pre THX Special Collection

gout

'97 special edition

2004

adywan color corrected 2004

Wouldn't it be awesome if the next video release had as an extra feature where they talked about all the urban legends and stuff that supposedly was in the film. Just to give some definitive answers.