Knightmessenger

Well, I just obtained a copy on dvd (not from anybody here) and am watching it now.

It had the sorcerer Mickey home video logo and then went straight to the movie. The dvd is NTSC or else it wouldn't play on my television. So far there have been no subtitles. Picture quality is pretty sharp and clean, audio is very good but the video does look a little washed out and muted in color.

Based on what I've read from others so far, it sounds like my disc is a straight transfer from the Hong Kong laserdisc. Does anybody know the side changes on the disc so I could easily check if there's a clean transition on my copy?

Sorry, having paying that much attention but could someone remind me what the LFL pwnage version is.

Are there other enhanced versions are there sourced from the official unaltered dvd out there? Like I've heard a lot about using special filters or digital color matching the 1993 picture, are those floating around or still being worked on?

xhonzi said:

.

????

Doctor M said:

Ok, subtitles are (probably) finished.  I still need to edit the main menu (adding a subtitle on/off button), rebuild and proof the new disc.

Can anyone provide a 1 minute clip from Mentor's disc (live action scene) so I can test if a new video clean up is worthwhile?

Wait, what were the subtitles needed for. I thought the goal was to get a version without them (unlike the laserdisc). I'm really confused.

Anyways, I've had an idea. With a US president who's half black and the return to 2d animation from Disney featuring a princess who's also black, it seems like Disney could not have a better time to release Song of the South on video if they really want to. I mean what could they possible wait for now? That being said, they still don't seem interested, even with their Platinum titles being rereleased, so they don't have much new stuff left to offer on dvd.

But I was thinking what if there was a way to pressure Disney or get Song of the South more exposure? So has anybody seen Nostalgia Critic? Do you think he would be up for reviewing the movie and basically pointing out how much it's not racist? I know it's something I can't just force him or anybody else to do and I know some of you are going to say that it would be unwise to tread on Disney. Well, he's already used stuff from the Lion King.

It's just that the Holiday Special used to be some really obscure thing no one outside of Star Wars would have heard of. After his review, I actually brought a copy in for our anime club to give away as some kind of cruel joke. I have never seen people laugh so hard at just seeing a home burned dvd with sharpie ink written on it. (I mean just looking at the disc, not even playing it.) One of the girls didn't even want to touch the case because it made her feel contaminated. It was hilarious.

So back to my point, if some internet reviewer got a hold of a copy and was brave enough to do a video review, it would definitely put pressure on Disney to bring out the movie. Hell, I'm seeing uploads of the full movie in segments on youtube! If Disney isn't going to take that down, then I think an internet review (which could legitimately claim fair use under copyright law) would probably not get in trouble.

So wait, have I read it right that the widescreen release was so unpopular that Funimation decided to go back and put the same show out again in standard?

What is there to preserve then, a different dub? Why needs to be modified with the openings and endings, the names of the English voice actors (because they're different?).

Wouldn't Coppola be able to push for an OAR release? What else has the DoP worked on. Are those also cropped?

I mean the only other movie I can think of being 2:1 is Spirited Away? So if he thinks that should be the only aspect ratio, well then he's only outnumbered by every other movie made to 1.

pittrek said:

C3PX said:

pittrek said:

The new version is pretty good, but I still prefer the original

 

I have the original version, and was thinking about replacing it with this new version. Any reasons not to? You said you preferred the original, the original is the only one I have seen, but I think it is great. Is there anything on it I will miss if I chuck it out and get the new one? Is the new one worth taking the time to dl?

1) Switching back between 4:3 and 16:9

2) repeating some segments twice (bad editing / encoding )

3) "crushed blacks"

4) missing some features from the original DVD

....

 

I think the best idea is to have both versions, because the new deleted scenes look great

 

How can a dvd switch between 4:3 and 16:9. It's either one or the other and footage that doesn't fit the format is either letterboxed or pillarboxed. If I remember correctly, the first Deleted Magic was encoded in 4:3.

Why would there be crushed blacks on this version that weren't there previously?

And what's missing?

It's already posted on youtube by Garrett.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeCKraAfY4Q

skyjedi2005 said:

 

Sadly i never have gotten rid of my fan preservation discs so much as they have succumbed to laser rot or the dye layer has failed.  The worst of which happens to be my fave disc.  The Dark Jedi Star Wars 1985 CAV laserdisc transfer.  It is terribly ironic too because my laserdisc copy is almost no longer readable in certain sections, and the dvd was my backup.

I'm surprised your fan made dvd's have degraded already. The bootleg set I got in 2005 (it wasn't editdroid, don't have that nor do I have any laserdiscs) for me is holding up fine. Now I actually put printed labels on to them which made them not play all the way through. Star Wars also got scratched by a rock in a portable dvd player (the scratch is circular so it only affects the Yavin battle of the movie).

About a year ago, I was able to copy every disc with the label intact (except for Star Wars because of the scratch) and the copies play fine. And while the dvd's I was sent may have been totally blank front Taiyo Yuden or whatever, I copied them to store brand Sony. Plus the Star Wars disc still plays in the parts of the movie that aren't affected by the scratch.

The problem with the discs is the fuzzyness of the laserdisc playback which the official LFL release does away with. Additionally, the compression is very noticeable. And the bonus discs of other Star Wars specials could have used some basic level adjustment and if they were done today, would probably look clearer because of better digital compression since 5 years ago.

Wow, I have so many questions to ask. First of all, I thought dvd was able to be 720p, which is why it had such a vast improvement over laserdisc. DVD was the first home video format to have progressive scan, right? And I thought it had a really high resolution that was the closest thing to HD while still being standard resolution. In fact, watching the 2005 Titanic dvd on a 4:3 rear projection screen (with a component video cable connection), I was amazed at how sharp it looked, I almost thought that was high definition video.

(fyi the movie is split onto 2 discs for better bitrate, and yes like many modern dvd transfers, it was taken from a video telecine that was originally captured in HD. But it looked like HD already to me back then, certainly better than a lot of HD television. If only it was the full film image.)

Okay, then. As for the screenshots, they look very close to the official unaltered LFL dvd. (Could those be added to the screenshots page?) The white spot on Leia's ship in screen 2 is a good example of just how sharp the video has to be to actually make such a tiny film flaw show up clearly. That being said, why didn't the creator use the original version dvd? Why would he use a laserdisc when only the top players have been shown to get almost even with a direct port of the D1 master tape? What laserdisc player was used anyways? Would it be possible to see a few before and after examples of his captures?

And what would have happened if he used the same techniques on the original version dvd? If that was done, it would be easier to tell which is a better video in terms of having less of a grain coating. And as for the aliasing on that shot of R2, I think the unaltered dvd has that problem too with the same shot, though it might not be as much.

Also why use a 5.1 mix rather than the uncompressed PCM stereo from the laserdiscs? Isn't 5.1 a modern remix, not something Star Wars originally had anyways?

The other thing I would like to point out is that it would be possible to remove some of the ghosting from the THX discs, even without using footage from another release. There are some shots that had smearing where the camera perfectly stationary. For example the shot where Han Solo is chasing the stormtroopers down the hall on the Death Star. Well, the ghost trail left behind could be removed with the next frame where that same part of the image does not have any smearing on it.

Of course that would only work some of the time, but I think it would be a good start to get as much of the DVNR taken out just from the THX source. That would be give future preservation projects something to build on as footage from either the special collection or 1997 special edition could be used to probably take out the rest. And that would at least give us a smear free version of the original Star Wars movies that would keep the sharpness and color accuracy of the THX versions. Anamorphic or not, that would be very valuable to have.

Also, if someone was able to get this off a laserdisc, couldn't a decent transfer be made from the widescreen letterbox of THX 1138? I have the original version made from a dvd recorder and while it doesn't look bad, I have to imagine a much better transfer could be made of that movie, even without a frame by frame enhancement in photoshop.

Gaffer Tape said:

Yeah, they did use some weird footage of Hayden. I mean, there's the embarrassed grin and then looking down at his shoes, and then off in the opposite direction. Yeah, I really feel like he's a part of this scene. Whereas, originally, Sebastian shared a look with Obi-Wan, which does the heart good, and then he beams proudly at his son. No comparison.

I think if you look at a split screen image, that really shows how there is no comparison. Hayden looks down at the fricken ground. Meanwhile Sebastian is looking right at Obi Wan who is smiling right back. The visual imagery of the original scene looks so much better, by any objective standard of filmmaking principles. I didn't realize how bad it was until I recently saw a split screen image on youtube that has since been taken down. Luckily I took a screencast.

I already posted what my first reaction was so I'll share what my current feeling is now.

[/IMG]

What do you guys think?

I posted a mock up poster that I made to promote the original versions based on the "what's wrong with your face?" line.

I'm interested in what others think. If it's lousy, by all means say so. Because i really want to know what others think about promoting the OOT.

[/IMG]

Why was the Lowry "restoration" even necessary. I mean wouldn't most people have been pretty happy with the quality of an anamorphic transfer from the 1997 prints?

Remember, most of the Empire of Dreams footage is from the 1997 version in anamorphic widescreen and I think that looks pretty good. Why did they need to spend all that money on a restoration that just screwed up the video and audio presentation? So they could claim "digitally remastered" on the box?

What the hell? Why does every movie have to be "Digitally restored" or whatever? I mean what if the film already looks pretty good? Do studios think people won't buy something unless they spend money on restoring it anyways?

Most people would have been amazed at the improved quality simply by it being on dvd. After all, not many people have even heard of laserdisc, fewer had the movies on that format so their previous reference would have been the vhs tapes. Seriously, how could a dvd not be light years ahead of fricken vhs?

If I had seen the 2006 original version dvds back in 2004, I would have thought they were amazing. Because I didn't know anything about video technology then and I always had the impression of the Star Wars movies looking very bad on tape. Just seeing a video master without the blurriness added by vhs would have looked stunning to me. But by 2006, I knew what laserdisc was, knew what anamorphic widescreen meant and my family purchased a widescreen television.

Dayo said:

When they released the 2006 DVD, Lucasfilm said that the laser disc ports were the best available source for the theatrical cuts.

It that is the case, where they did get the footage used in the "Empire of Dreams" documentary (included in the bonus disc of the 2004 DVD)? The footage in that documentary is definitly from the original version, and it looks better than what was relesed with the 2006 DVD.

What gives?

Most of the footage from the Empire of Dreams documentary is from the 1997 special edition. It includes Boba's original voice, Han's jacket in the carbon freezing room and the end of Jedi with Sebastian Shaw as Anakin near the end.

There is some footage of the original version, has anyone compared it side by side with the 2006 video to see if it is the same video source (but in 16x9) or from something else? If it's from something else such as a decent quality film print, that doesn't necessarily mean Lucas is sitting on a decent print of the original ready to go, right? Could it be possible that those were all in separate parts and the makers of the doc had to dig them up? Or that they required extensive restoration just to look decent and Lucas didn't want to do that for the entire reel when he had the 1993 video transfer already color corrected?

Because I understand Lucas' utter lazyness to not restore the original films, what doesn't make sense even for him would be to intentionally use a lower quality source if there was a better one ready to go, which was just sitting on the shelf in one piece.

I love the reviews, I think they're hilarious and yet very informative. This guy obviously knows a lot about making movies and successful storytelling methods because he doesn't just repeat what plain bashers have said for years. For example, he doesn't criticize Jar Jar other than calling him a cartoon rabbit and someone who should not have left the ship on Tatooine.

One of my friends in our college's anime club also watched the reviews and we couldn't stop saying "What's wrong with your face?" the whole night at our last screening. (impersonating the voice of course) Best of all, we even did our own Mystery Science Theater for a couple of shows and in the Saint Seiya episode, one of the characters wore a mask. So you can probably guess what the most common riff was.

I do think the Clones review could have been a little better because while there are probably too many things wrong with it to cover in 10 hours, I think he would have been better not to spend one 10 minute segment on just one point. Like how Samuel L Jackson was miscast and overuse of lightsabers could have combined with other parts and he could have focused more on how confusing the whole thing is.

I think ConfusedMatthew hit some points about no explanation given for the Separatists wanting to leave and why it was the job of the Jedi to stop that. Sure, I know "Palpatine's behind it all," but what do the separatists like Nute Gunray think their honest reasons for leaving are? How would they justify their actions?

And I actually thought the part of Anakin saying he wouldn't mind a dictatorship was an interesting part that could have had more potential storyline and intrigue. It sounds bad the way he says it but I think there are a lot of people in real life who wouldn't mind tyranny as long as the dictator was a "caring" guy who only forced people to do things that were "good for everyone." It wouldn't be such a bad thing if a leader forced the "right" morals on everybody else, we just need a good "planner."

So that was one of the points where I thought the prequels had a chance to make stronger themes and less superficial and cliche plot than even the original trilogy.

Still awesome reviews however. I even paraphrased one of his lines for a course evaluation in a class I thought was lousy.

That was me who uploaded the Blu, Not Blue image of Yoda to the facebook group. (now up to 25, okay, more than double in 2 days is progress, let's keep it up.)

If anybody knows other good places to add it, let me know. (Does People vs George Lucas have a fan photo page?)

Notice how because it was originally uploaded from a personal album, I can add it to multiple groups and it will say "Also In" with links to the others.

I want to add these to the official fan page of Star Wars but it won't let me upload fan images like everybody else. Can anybody help me out?

Any idea when we can expect a dvd release?

Is there anything (excerps, video samples) new that we can see in the meantime? Do they have a facebook fan page or anything?

This is probably something I would know if I was paying more attention but Zombie, how did you get to know the producers so well?

Hmm, that didn't work either.

EDIT: after more frustrations and combinations, I just used the second option from image shack and that for once finally showed up.

Trooperman said:

 

 Consider this an OT.com exclusive!  As far as sharing a couple scenes over the net, go for it as long as it is made absolutely clear it's a test product, a rough cut, and not final work.  

For anyone who missed the last couple months, feel free to PM me and I will take care of you.  Either someone who has the movie could mail you a copy (I think it's called the pay forward system) or I can maybe send more copies myself when I have time.  Knightmessenger, I remember you from years ago posting on this thread.  Please PM me and I'll get you a copy.  I'm sorry you missed the mailing.

-TM

 

PM sent, (very late I know). I think today is the first time I've visited this website since I posted about missing the offer back in late October.

I've been sort of following this and was thinking that if any significant milestone has been accomplished, would it be possible to post a screencap from the official dvd and the new enhanced video for comparison purpose?

And am I sensing this is not something we could get a copy of, it only tells us what we could do with our dvd disks? Cause there's no way I could understand what all these video things do unless I could get a demo session from someone else here. (you know what, if I had a stable paying job, I think I would actually offer up some compensation for personal tutorials from some of the knowledgeable members here but that's getting off topic.) Anyways, if the enhanced video version is not available to be traded for or what not, that's fine, I'll just stick with the official dvd's. But I am curious in seeing how much improvement there has been, and am wondering would it be noticeable on a regular playback?

I do have another question, for those that converted their official dvd's to anamorphic widescreen with nothing else modified, how long did that take with the simplest method?

doubleofive said:

I was right.  They basically said they stop in the middle of the interview to point out that Ady removed most but not all of the "critters" on the way into Mos Eisley to show how nit-picky he is.  They never mentioned this to him and he has a perfectly good explanation which no one will ever hear but us.

And of ALL 250+ changes Ady made, this is the one they focus on?  At least io9 posted a video showing the GOOD AND JUSTIFIED changes he made.

What is the reason for only removing some of the critters? Are these the ones from the first shot of the landspeeder entering the city or of the next shot (which is brand new) with the pan up and wide view of the city from above?

Anyways, where is the video on io9? Is it the one embedded from youtube on the same interview page (which just shows a segment) or another video that compares the versions from multiple points in the movie?

Also, with the film already having screened at multiple festivals, what has the word been like since? Are there any updates?

I think confused Matthew pointed out why couldn't Anakin's mother be freed after the final battle in episode 1? I mean the kid saved the day and who could honestly refuse a sweet little child's request not of money but to see his mommy no longer be a slave?

Oh, how about some of the events between episodes 1 and 2 so that we know why Anakin goes from being such a sweet happy child to an annoying whiny teenager who's upset about something? What happened? Why did he get so moody? He's like a totally different person, and it doesn't help that Hayden Christensen seems nothing like Jake Lloyd. (Lloyd is now the age of Anakin in episode II, he does not at all look like Hayden did in 2002) Nor does Hayden look at all like Mark Hamill.

So we have a character who is totally different from how we last remember him and we are given nothing to explain why. I thought he wanted to be a jedi. And why was Anakin so obsessive over Padme for those 10 years? Wouldn't it make more sense that he was just happy to see her again and as they went away to hide, he grew more attracted to her? I mean I think a 10 year old can have a crush on an older girl but not nearly as mature and adult as we are told it is in Clones.

Oh and what the hell do the Separatists want? Why can't the Republic just say "Fine, leave if you want." There's a couple of deleted scenes in Clones that I sort of liked. We see Padme suggest to the entire senate that someone tried to kill her likely due to her opinion of the military bill. I thought that builds intrigue and suspense.

We see more of Padme's house and learn a little bit more about her. This is just a little down to earth moment that could have helped us better connect with characters in a movie that is too detached and sterile.

Dooku captures Anakin and Padme and hints that he knows more about who is behind everything. Padme just says something like "you're a bad guy, I'll never join you because we can't split up the republic because... well because. Padme was idealistic about the republic in Episode 1 (she questions Shmi Skywalker "how can there be slavery, with the republic's anti-slavery laws?" then she sees the senate only able to set up a committee to investigate whether there actually is a Naboo invasion.) but maybe by this point in Clones, she might say "You know what Dooku, the Republic is broken. Maybe you're not so far off. I've lost my faith in it too. But why should I trust you?"

But instead of thinking about what would be the most intelligent response to gain a greater sense of what's happening, Padme just says no because the plot demands it. "Is that the script over there, yeah it says I am not supposed to let the republic fall ever."

So I guess I would have liked the prequels better if they weren't as confusing and Lucas was more consistent. At least with Phantom Menace I knew what Lucas was trying to do, hell Jar Jar is so hated but the idea of having a comedic character in an effort to appeal to people who have never really fit in with others in their life before is actually a pretty good idea. It just didn't turn out as intended.

But with Clones, I really don't know what Lucas wanted, it seems like he could not have a firm idea or direction he wanted to take the story.

Does any of my rambling make sense?

I never understood the point of taking that line out of the Biggs scene that was reinserted back in 1997.

What did it contradict, I mean it's not like someone had memories of someone dying when they were very young and it turned out the person actually died moments after their birth. Such a hypothetical scenario is what I would consider a plot hole.

I thought part of the reason to have Anakin win the podrace was to show that he was a good pilot, seems like Lucas is taking out stuff that would support the prequels yet writes new stuff that contradicts. I thought very few people knew Darth Vader was once Anakin Skywalker, and Obi Wan probably told others what he told Luke in Star Wars. So how is it inconsistent for Red Leader to tell Luke he knew his father, under the assumption that Luke's father is now dead. 

Where was I? Oh yeah, there's also a facebook group called "I will not buy Star Wars on blu-ray unless it has the original edition." I don't really care what the group is called but there needs to be one that really gets a lot of people to join. "Han Shot First" has a lot of members though.

And I would like to add some photos to the Star Wars fan page but for some reason, I can't figure out how to upload photos to fan pages on facebook, even though plenty of other people can. (And it's not like I don't know how to upload photos to facebook, I have many from my albums that I've even added to multiple groups.)

There is a facebook group called "I will not buy Star Wars on blu-ray unless it has the original edition."

I'd like to upload the Blu, Not Blue image of Yoda to other facebook groups for cross promotion but I seem to be having trouble adding it among the other fan photos in the Star Wars page. Anybody know if there's a new trick to uploading photos to a fan page on facebook?

Red Letter Media has mentioned in his reviews that he finds the special editions annoying. I don't think he would mind if someone did a poster for the original versions with one of his taglines.

I just did this mock up in MS paint in about 15 minutes:

[/IMG]

Hey, isn't that shot of Warwick Davis from a scene that he totally wasn't in. Why would he be part of the Tatooine/Jabba sarlacc if he just played one of the Ewoks (which took place on a different planet/moon)?

Or did he have a small role in Jabba's Palace as well?

I really don't watch bonus features or documentaries more than once these days, if I even bother to watch them at all. So if the new set has deleted scenes, I'll rent them just to see how they are. But odds are, someone will upload them to youtube anyways. (not that I would download a copy to my computer).

The footage might be reincorporated into other fan edits as well. However, I am not collecting every star wars bonus feature out there so I don't see a need to own everything for a personal repository. If someone else wants to do that, fine.

I'm not buying the movies unless the originals are fully restored. I have the 2006 dvd's, I don't need more videos if it's just the same stuff I already have.