Knight of Kalee

DominicCobb said:

Knight of Kalee said:

I mentioned it already in the general thread, but besides obvious suggestions like Duel of the Fates or Across the stars, I have a less-known prequel theme in mind, one that is prominent in the second half of ROTS. It’s a Sith motif named “Mystery of the Sith” also known as the second half of Padmé’s Ruminations. It has early hints to the “Anthem of Evil” theme if you listen it closely.

TROS really should serve as a culmination of the saga in all its aspects, including the score.

Is that really a motif though? I can only think of one time it’s used in the film.

I will say too the film as is already features a few quotes of prequel music.

It appears when Anakin is given instructions by Sidious, and also when Obi-Wan realizes he has turned to the dark side. I was suggesting to use snippets of it mainly because it’s less on-the-nose than other prequel tracks, and because of the similar notes to the Anthem of evil theme.

The film does reuse prequel music but it’s not that noticeable. I mostly remember “Yoda challenging Palpatine” track when Rey’s training on Ajan Kloss, and an AOTC track similar to the Kamino theme when Poe and Zorii talk on Kijimi. I’d have to rewatch the film to notice more similarities. For me, having Duel of the Fates during the final duel would be enough.

I admit that although I love Samuel Kim’s arrangements, most of them do not fit to be in the films themselves because they feel too much like trailer music. For example, the main theme version from the TROS trailer is based on a four-chord sequence, a trait that’s very un-Williams but common in more modern cinematic music.

But even if the music doesn’t feel Williams, I can’t deny that your rescore is goosebump-inducing. I would have loved if that scene in the film had a more emotional soundtrack like the one you used. The space battle in general deserved more attention and screentime.

I mentioned it already in the general thread, but besides obvious suggestions like Duel of the Fates or Across the stars, I have a less-known prequel theme in mind, one that is prominent in the second half of ROTS. It’s a Sith motif named “Mystery of the Sith” also known as the second half of Padmé’s Ruminations. It has early hints to the “Anthem of Evil” theme if you listen it closely.

TROS really should serve as a culmination of the saga in all its aspects, including the score.

I could go with either ship. Vader’s TIE Advanced works better as fanservice, but I’ve always been fond of the Lambda shuttle. Arguably, if we bring continuity issues and general geekness to the table, it’s equally nonsensical to pretend a ship survived the Death Star explosion and remain functional after 30 years of wear, be it the shuttle or Vader’s TIE. The minor advantage the shuttle has over the TIE is that it appeared prominently in ROTJ and one was glimpsed when Rey climbed the DS structure.

I don’t know what you guys think but for me, it’s easier to forgive Vader’s TIE being somewhere in the DS wreckage, than Luke’s fighter magically regenerating its missing wing when being lifted out of the water.

poppasketti said:

Here’s some Alts for the Tie replacement:
https://vimeo.com/421655865
pw: fanedit

Lol!

Jokes aside, Vader’s TIE Advanced is a genuinely good option. It makes sense in-universe, and though it’s kind of fanservice-y, it feels like a nice payoff having that TIE and the X-Wing it chased all those films ago, now side-by-side. George Lucas would be proud of that “rhyme”.

I guess most of us are not that much of sticking to the wider canon when making fan-edits or suggesting ideas (personally, I prefer to acknowledge TCW, if anything) but the Jedi Temple/Imperial Palace bit is actually one of my favorite elements of the new canon, and the idea the Jedi chose Coruscant to build their Temple to suppress the power of an ancient Sith shrine is pretty compelling besides opens a wide can of possibilities.

Either way, I believe you’re developing a genuinely great idea, jonh. It would be awesome to have this opening. And even if it’s not plausible in the end, Coruscant would act as a pretty background for the First Order board meeting, instead of a random location in space. That’d be a funny little shout out to the unproduced “Duel of the Fates” and what it could have been.

I think the best idea to retroactively tie the sequel trilogy films together is by doing it the subtle way. For example, the brief Palpatine hints that are scattered across the Rekindled edit of TLJ (like his silhouette at the cave scene, his laugh during Luke’s flashback, or Snoke’s eyes turning yellow after he’s mortally wounded), that culminate in Palps’ “find me” at the end.

For example, the vision in TFA would be a great part to put a hint of Palpatine’s involvement, like the shot where young Rey watches Ochi’s ship depart Jakku.

“Sith Eternal” is a name I can live with. It explicitly states the Sith nature of the faction, bringing the story of the saga full circle (back to the essential Jedi-Sith conflict) and it doesn’t recycle either Empire or Order. But I think maybe some dialogue tweaking could serve to further establish that the First Order is either subservient to, or merged with, the Sith Eternal/Final Order. The distinction between the two organisations is not very clear when taking only the film as reference.

poppasketti said:

Also also, for the Mustafar establishing shots, if we come up with a sequence that Hal is happy with, adding 1-2 shots, I can probably add the ties to whichever shots are chosen. Rather than mock-up so many different shots with ties though, I was thinking to wait until a sequence is cut that everyone’s on board with. The only shot that would be of questionable difficulty is the first RO shot going through the clouds, but if that cuts well with the others leading to Kylo on the ground we can try to make that work!

I think the particular shots worth a try (in sequence) are:

• TIE Fighters/Troop transports leaving the Star Destroyer. Maybe reverting the trajectory of the TIEs for that TFA shot of Kylo’s destroyer just before Poe’s torture here
• TIEs approaching Vader’s Castle in the first Rogue One establishing shot.
• Or… TIEs flying past the castle when seen from behind (all shots with Krennic’s shuttle erased). The lava environment is less prominent in the second establishing shot so that might sell the transition to woodland better.

Then the sequence would lead to the already existing TIEs flying over the forest. Then to the actual fight seen in the movie.

The only continuity nitpick against it is that TIEs are nowhere to be found during the actual slaughter scene. Maybe adding some TIE flyby sounds and green lasers in the distance could help?

kewlfish said:

Yeah lol, I was just watching a video on youtube and that scene came on and I thought maybe… but nope, it definitely doesn’t work.

I don’t get if your talking about the supposed dickhead line or the Mustafar structure idea XD

Hal 9000 said:

I imagine that feeling strange and disjointed. 😕

Unrelated: can I ask for a single volunteer to send me a recording to be able to add an extremely subtle nod to ROTJ? The line read is, “Die, dickheads!”

Google it if you don’t know what I mean.

Lol I understood that reference.

With regards to Mustafar, I guess the the simpler the better. There’s just not enough existing dialogue, even re-purposed lines, to provide context for that scene to fully work as an opening. The best course of action right now would be, as most people suggested pages earlier, to have a continuous tracking of the TIE Fighters lead us to the battle. First the TIEs and Destroyer in space, then the flyby over the woods (it would be great if some VFX addition could allow for the TIEs to fly past Vader’s Castle, just to make the planet identifiable as Mustafar before moving on to the woodland) and then Kylo’s slaughter of the cultists (and Palpatine’s “find me”).

Yeah I have polarized thoughts about the novelization. It feels like Lucasfilm cannot make up its mind even after the saga is wrapped up. The same way TROS felt like a retcon of TLJ prompted by backlash, the TROS novelization retcons controversial stuff established in the very same movie it adapted. Like Rey’s dad not being Palpatine’s biological offspring but a rogue clone of him. Or Ben and Rey’s kiss not being romantic.

On the other hand, the novel confirms stuff that we really should implement or make clearer in any fan-edit of this film, like the fact Palpatine transferred his essence to a clone, but that body is not viable enough to fully support his power (basically, “more than a clone, less than a man”).

The shuttle looks awesome. The slight size increase is not jarring at all.

I believe the only time we see a regular TIE land on screen (in live action at least) is Moff Gideon’s fighter in The Mandalorian. But I’m pretty sure that one is a different model, since it folded its wings in order to land.

Streamlined TIE models obviouslly don’t have those landing restrictions, as seen when Kylo parks his Whisper on Exegol.

That shot looks seamless! It kind of fits that it’s a ship commonly associated with Vader, instead of a generic TIE.

According to sources the full height of the Lambda shuttle with wings folded is apparently 22 m (72 feet) while the X-Wing measures 2,4 m (8 ft). You could make the Lambda just somewhat larger, though it’s not really that noticeable and more of a nitpick.

Nice one jonh! I was concerned that music would sound too cinematic or “trailery” but, as others have already said, it fits the actual scene beat by beat, and it helps with the catharsis factor to the ultimate confrontation between the Sith and the Jedi.

I guess the score has been somewhat overlooked amidst all the brainstorming, but I think it’s one of the most important things to get right at least in this movie. John Williams pulled off the gimmick of revisiting previous musical motifs from previous installments in the saga, but the actual film played very loose with those themes, even when they represent something specific. For example, I was thrilled to hear the track for Yoda and Palpatine’s confrontation when Rey is training at the base, but was confused when well known themes such as “Luke and Leia” were used for seemingly random moments like Lando and Jannah’s meeting.

I think we could use even more small snippets of previous scores to accomplish an even more cohesive musical atmosphere. This film is supposed to be the climax of the entire saga, that should be reflected in its score, too.

Themes I was wondering we could revisit:

• Duel of the Fates (this one has been suggested a lot. It would fit for the Death Star duel and the Sith Eternal’s chanting on Exegol)
• The Mystery of the Sith theme aka the second half of Padmé’s Ruminations (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4JsA4jF7yo , beginning 1:37). This first appeared in ROTS and I believe is the inspiration for “Anthem of Evil”, the theme that plays when Rey meets Palpatine. Since it’s subtle yet sinister, pieces of it could be spread across the movie in scenes that deal with Palpatine speaking to Kylo or Pryde, or the mystery of Ochi and the dagger.
• Rose’s Theme could be played over the scene where Finn and Jannah talk.
• “I’m so Sorry” from ROTS and Clone Wars: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH06ijLc2EM&t=189s
• Some sinister-sounding tracks from the OT such as The Approach to Endor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkm1jf9Avik&list=PLauGpiqPcHu379AvbapPx9L84RC-P3SLV&index=18) particularly that part near the beginning when Palpatine and Vader speak.
• The entire ending part of the track “Star Wars and the Revenge of the Sith” went unused in that film. So it could be used in fast-paced action scenes (such as the speeder bike chase) and not feel recycled.

DZ-330 said:

Respects to: idir_hh, poppasketti, Dominic_Cobb

Restructure 2.0

Putting it all together
https://vimeo.com/420424145
PW: fanedit

A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.

This opening act works even better than I thought, besides the con of explaining how the Resistance learns of Palpatine. I’m looking forward to whatever edit features this restructure.

Hal, in your current set of ideas, how are you doing the Darth Vader helmet vision? Are you keeping it where it currently stands or keeping it for later and justify Kylo’s decision to rebuild his own helmet?

If we add a vision at the beginning of the opening, I believe it should be quieter. Jumping straight from a flashy vision to the middle of an action scene wouldn’t really fix the whiplash effect and abysmal pacing. Yeah the vision could contextualize the later scene better, but maybe we could insert slower establishing shots of Exegol/Mustafar/the Sith fleet/whatever to fill space between the quicker frames of Han, Luke, etc. and let the vision have more breathing room, before moving on to Kylo’s battle with the cultists.

I like DZ-330 restructure, and I don’t mind ditching a cold opening in favor of a fast, Bond-style action sequence. I’d rather not have Kylo and Vader’s helmet interspersed with Rey’s training, so we can keep those shots for later and justify Kylo reforging his helmet as in DominicCobb’s version. Rey’s flashbacks should be a side-consequence of her gradually losing her temper, thus showing her struggles with the dark side early in the film. Also, that way, we can reveal Kylo’s face on Mustafar.

As a minor fuss, if we open the film with the Falcon action scene, the moment where the TIEs arrive should be rescored. Emperor Palpatine’s theme doesn’t feel right when we haven’t seen him yet at this point or known of his connections to the First Order.

Awesome work poppasketti, even if it’s just a WIP! I kind of liked the proposed idea of the TIE Advanced (rhyming and all that…), but the Lambda is fine for me, and makes more sense in the context of the story since a Lambda was glimpsed when Rey climbed the Death Star wreckage IIRC.

Having watched the rogue cut before reading your last post, it felt a little strange watching Obi-Wan casually appear and do nothing for a while, though I guess it didn’t make much sense either way in the original with Obi-Wan waiting inside the ship until he decides to make his dramatic appearance. I can get used to it, though.

The dialogue seems fine for me, besides some, minor, technical stuff. Can you drop the first “and” in Anakin’s “and you and I could rule the galaxy…”?

Hal 9000 said:

In watching through the movie, skipping around to imitate our ideas, I think the opening feels very rushed removing Mustafar and the chess scene.

I really don’t mind Mustafar as is, so this isn’t an obvious answer. It might be best as it is, even without the meat of the scene, with or without a couple establishing shots.

This movie just doesn’t give us much wiggle room.

I think I agree with you about Mustafar. The film already sorely misses huge chunks of unreleased scenes, and cutting not one but two scenes from the first ten minutes wouldn’t do any favors to its jarring, non-stop pacing.

The chess scene at the end is so good that I don’t really want to see it returned to its original spot lol. So far I’d rather fix Mustafar, unless we go the radical route and begin the film with something else and then lead up to Kylo’s journey and finding Palpatine.

Octorox said:

The only disadvantage I see to cutting Mustafar is that you just start the film and there’s Palpatine, with no build up. Would prefer to see that finding him at least took some doing on Kylo’s part. Like I know that we can infer that it happened offscreen but I think it’s better to see that effort play out onscreen.

Yeah, I agree. Palpatine right at the opening scene is only marginally better than spoiling his return in the crawl. Though I’d hardly call Mustafar a full scene anyway, and the film could definitely work without it if the Wayfinder’s importance is downplayed, I really wish we can salvage that admittely cool sequence and give it more substance. Maybe re-contextualise it in another moment of the movie? Like maybe suggesting Kylo goes to Fortress Vader to rebuild his helmet?

I’m having mixed feelings about Mustafar. Part of me doesn’t want the clearest shout-out to the prequel trilogy removed. On the other side, moving from the crawl right to Kylo jumping out of hyperspace over Exegol could fit a bit better, that scene is much longer has a lot more breathing room (and as jonh pointed out, the buildup is nothing that can’t be explained in the crawl). Besides, Exegol with the reveal of Palps and the Final Order already makes for a more impressive, cold opening, which is a nice change of pace after ROTS, TFA and TLJ opened with action scenes.

The main con to the Mustafar beginning is the lack of context provided. Is there any expositional way of justifying Kylo’s trip to Mustafar besides the crawl and Vader’s helmet as guidance?

With regards to the Fortress Vader establishing shot, would it be feasible to paint some scorched patches of forest in the background or around the castle? I’d do a photoshop mockup of this if only I had the time for it. The color correction already was a great starting point, at least for those of us that want to improve the Mustafar scene.

This sounds great! The first half of the show hardly contradicts anything seen in TCW (besides the Jedi interceptor showing up earlier) so it would fit nicely in a saga marathon.

Just being curious, are you keeping the first battle with General Grievous? I think some parts of it could be trimmed to better fit with the rest of the saga, but it would be nice to include this scene considering Grievous appears from nowhere in TCW (and the fact that the modern canon has sort of acknowledged that battle as having happened).

Hal 9000 said:

Hmmm… if Kijimi isn’t destroyed, could it feature in the mini-montage of Star Destroyers going down instead of Jakku?

Coruscant > Cloud City > Kijimi

You’d have a planet introduced in the first film of the first trilogy, second film of the second trilogy, and third film of the third trilogy.”

“Happy.”

Now that you mention it, it could be cool to have Kijimi instead of Jakku at the end. Is there any establishing shot of Kijimi that could work in that case?

That way the montage would feel more cathartic; Jakku is somewhat meh since most of its inhabitants we knew in TFA were assholes (save for the villagers from the beginning, but they are dead), but in the case of Kijimi, the audience knows this world is the home of Zorii, Babu Frik and John Williams, besides the planet was shown to be brutally oppressed and patrolled by the First Order in the middle act. Planet saved!

Shifting the topic to the Mustafar beginning, I like how the sequence plays out. Maybe that shot where the jet troopers are in the sky could go, but the rest of the Battlefront II footage looks fine (how could one make the videogame cutscenes look less “clean”?).

I agree TIE fighters would make for a nice addition to the castle shot. It’s a good way to disguise the fact that is a Rogue One mirrored/recolored take. Bonus points if somehow Kylo’s shuttle or TIE Whisper could be added.

Also I forgot how good Dom’s repurposed vision scene was. I wouldn’t mind if we keep it there instead of moving Vader’s helmet to the beginning.

Movies Remastered said:

I really wanted to cut that scene but it wouldn’t work with the edits I’m doing. It’s frustrating to leave it but the transition just doesn’t work at all.

That Stormtrooper footage it’s excellent!

I’ve just finished my Mustafa clip thanks to so many people for working so hard on this footage.
Absolutely buzzing!

Are you talking about cutting the lightspeed skipping scene right? Why wouldn’t it work to delete it in your edit?

I’d really like to watch your version of the Mustafar sequence.