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Karyudo

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Join date
23-Oct-2004
Last activity
12-Jan-2025
Posts
805

Post History

Post
#247827
Topic
Help Wanted: A request from babyhum: 'Ultimate Sci Fi Top 10' on UK TV
Time
Originally posted by: boris
My advice is to get yourself a new Sky subscription, and watch it yourself. Why do these forums now seem to attract freeloaders?


I'm not one to agree with boris (as you'll note from other threads), but I didn't read this statement as being any sort of condemnation of baby hum. Rather, I took it to be more of a lament that here at OT.com, even a guy like baby hum who has given a lot to the community, can't get a (reasonably) simple request filled. Sort of like, "if you want it done right, you're going to have to do it yourself."

Which, sadly, I think is about right. There are relatively few people producing content (e.g. baby hum), and a whole bunch more who could be classified as freeloaders. Including me.

Baby hum, I suspect you might have more luck soliciting the cash to be able to sign up for Sky again yourself than you will getting a capture done to your high-quality specs. I'd prolly huck a few bucks (quid?) your way if I knew where to send it, but since I don't live anywhere near a place Sky broadcasts nor own a DVD recorder, I absolutely can't help out with the actual mechanics of capping for you. I'll bet there are dozens of people here on OT.com that are in my same sort of boat.
Post
#247774
Topic
Making our own 35mm preservation--my crazy proposal
Time
Originally posted by: boris
Originally posted by: Karyudo
Actually, you are both wrong: Anamorphic DVDs have 33% more resolution We can do this mathematically if you like:

The claim was:

But with 33% LESS RESOLUTION than all of your anamorphic DVDs

Anamorphic NTSC is 365 lines, 1/3rd of that is 122, 365-132 is 233 lines... hmm, no the PAL disc has 326 lines, thus the statement must be wrong.

But then again, since you're comparing PAL->Anamorphic PAL, here goes:

326 lines for non-anamorphic PAL. 1/3rd of that is 109 lines. 326+109 = 435 lines... so you could say that when compared to non-anamorphic PAL that anamorphic PAL has 33% MORE lines... but that wasn't the claim. The claim was that it has 33% LESS lines then anamorphic PAL. His claim can be rewritten such: "non anamorphic disc = 2/3rds resolution of anamorphic DVD's". But 2*(432/3) = 288, far less then the 326 lines that the PAL disc has.

His claim was completely wrong. Especially considering it has only 11% less lines then anamorphic NTSC. And here's the proof for that. Anamorphic NTSC disc has 365 lines... 365 * 0.89 = 324.85, the PAL disc has 326 lines, Ergo it's 11% less then the anamorphic NTSC SSE 2004 DVD. Alternatively:
326/365 = 0.893 (approx).


So, all that obfuscating math and prose just to show that I was right: anamorphic discs have 33% more resolution than non-anamorphic discs of the same format (the only reasonable way to compare).

Now, here's an interesting note, some of my anamorphic discs don't go all the way to the side of the picture. My OUT PAL Discs do. SOOO... if you were to compare to say an anamorphic NTSC disc which has 9 horizontal black lines to the left and right of the picture, then the total number of pixels would be (720-9*2)*363... or 254826 pixels. The PAL DVD has 720*326 pixels (234720 pixels).... 234720/254826 = 0.92. So this statement would be true:

The OUT DVD's have 8% LESS RESOLUTION than some of my anamorphic DVDs

Some of my NTSC discs have even more missing picture then just 9 lines on each side.


More obfuscation. You may be gaining picture area, but you are probably not gaining picture resolution. Especially if you're upsampling NTSC to PAL. I could start with VHS, upsample it to 1080p, and through your disingenuous, twisted logic, claim that this somehow had four times the resolution of DVD!

Give it up, boris: you are trying to argue something so stupid that it's not worth the effort to type it out. Your time would be far better spent doing the sort of research you did with the crawl.

Again, by definition, anamorphic DVDs have 33% more resolution than non-anamorphic discs; conversely, non-anamorphic DVDs have 25% less resolution than anamorphic ones. QED. No more trying to argue that a PAL upsample is somehow superior to the NTSC source it was upsampled from!

Post
#247737
Topic
Making our own 35mm preservation--my crazy proposal
Time
I apologize, SilverWook: it wasn't your quote I was referring to, it was the one in the thread over at HTF. It was boris alone who brought up the resolution issue. In which case it's boris and some other guy from HTF who are both wrong about the increase/decrease in resolution. Sorry to have dragged you into it.

Boris is still the one arguing that a lame NTSC-upsampled non-anamorphic transfer is only 11% worse than most of his other DVDs. That must be some pretty sad collection, technically speaking, since the OUT continues to have 25% less resolution than the entire rest of my collection of DVDs, and even has less resolution than more than 50% of my LD collection!
Post
#247650
Topic
Making our own 35mm preservation--my crazy proposal
Time
Originally posted by: boris
Originally posted by: SilverWookBut with 33% LESS RESOLUTION than all of your anamorphic DVDs
Some people amaze me. Anamorphic DVD's have 25% more resolution.


Actually, you are both wrong: Anamorphic DVDs have 33% more resolution than non-anamorphic ones, and non-anamorphic discs have 25% less resolution than anamorphic ones. The math is extremely simple: 1.78/1.33 = 1.33; 1.33/1.78 = 0.75.

But at least SilverWook is arguing for better quality, rather than trying to prop up a piss-poor transfer by claiming resolution created through upsampling and across video formats reduces this number to an 11.9% difference. So, really, boris is "wronger."
Post
#247648
Topic
Are the PAL GOUT DVDs upscaled from the NTSC masters?
Time
Originally posted by: boris
Originally posted by: Karyudo
Uhh... the master tapes are digital. So what? Not all digital master tapes are equal.


That's not the point. Your original argument was to wonder why Laserman wouldn't take quality of equipment into consideration when talking about masters (like he did with LDs). The answer is because master tapes are digital -- that is, for a given digital master tape (cf. LD), the digital deck used to play it (cf. LD player) shouldn't make any difference at all (cf. analog LD where the design and build quality of the player has a direct effect on the quality of output).

You can believe that the PAL master tape is much better quality if you like. Either way is speculation, we don't know for certain.


You post as if nobody has ever seen a mythical PAL LD from which to make comparisons. It's certainly clear that you have never seen a PAL LD, because anyone who has viewed a PAL copy of the same 1995 THX release can tell you that it is definitely different from the NTSC version. And it is better in most areas. You're right that it has its flaws -- most notably more dust and crap in the picture -- but it does have more resolution, more detail, and no ghosting.

By the way, this is not "speculation"; it is fact. Why don't you accept that? You expect everyone to buy your theory that the crawl on the GOUT discs is original based on a few frames with one spot of dust and a hair or video flaw, but you don't accept all of the posted evidence for the PAL LD release being different and better than NTSC? That's just being deliberately obtuse, and bordering on trolling.
Post
#247212
Topic
Making our own 35mm preservation--my crazy proposal
Time
I was kinda assuming buying a 35 mm projector as a necessary first step...

Hearing you have a Workprinter puts you several steps further down the road to success than I think I've ever seen or heard anyone else around here get. It'd be cooler to hear it was 16 mm and not 8 mm (you'd have PM by now), but it's pretty cool that you've found your way here and have joined right in!
Post
#246849
Topic
Making our own 35mm preservation--my crazy proposal
Time
Originally posted by: Puggo - Jar Jar's "Yoda"
It wouldn't be a Rank transfer, but it could work, no?


Sure, it would work. But it is very complicated, very expensive, and very difficult to get good results. Not impossible, but not easy, either.

It's easy to outline a reusable, home-built spacecraft that can launch into orbit, land, and relaunch within a short period of time, too, but as the X-Prize has shown, there's a huge difference between outline and actually turning that simple outline into reality.

Post
#246679
Topic
Are the PAL GOUT DVDs upscaled from the NTSC masters?
Time
Originally posted by: boris
Originally posted by: Laserman
But with Lucasfilm we are talking master tapes so players etc. don't come into the equation. How come something similar may not come into the equation here?

Uhh... the master tapes are digital.

You really think [Moth3r's transfers look better in places than the GOUT]?


Yup. Haven't you been following the thread where Arnie.d has posted some comparison screencaps? The PAL LD very clearly has more detail than the GOUT DVD in the scenes he's pointed out, no question.

The GOUT DVD should be substantially better than the NTSC or PAL laserdiscs. The fact that it's even a question worthy of debate shows just how half-assed the GOUT DVD really is. There might be a lot of Lucas apologists who are tickled pink to get this substandard release, but that's a little like saying having one hand chopped off is better than having both chopped off. It might be better, but it's a long, long way from being optimal.




Post
#245433
Topic
"BUT ANAMORPHIC ENHANCEMENT ALTERS THE MOVIES!!!"
Time
Originally posted by: Cable-X1
Widescreen TVs are made to eliminate those black bars provided the movie is anamorphic.

Not true! Well, not entirely true.

An anamorphic movie on DVD means that the black bars are smaller, but it doesn't necessarily mean they're eliminated. Material at exactly 16:9 (1.78:1) will be free of black bars, but something like Star Wars -- which is 2.35:1 or thereabouts -- will (and should) still have black bars. Still, much more of the information on the DVD would be picture information, with only small black bars encoded to pad out the image to 16:9. You can't eliminate the black bars for Star Wars on DVD!
Post
#244694
Topic
Info: 2006 GOUT DVD using 'Faces' PCM Sound?
Time
Might I recommend synching to the timecoded X0 Project? I've checked, and that has every frame that exists in the Faces/DC edition. So it will be possible to exactly identify any points where the synch might go out, and prepare a master list of adjustments, quoting timecode.

The problem with synching to anything else is that there is no easy way to communicate where to make adjustments for the various versions. We assume that the PAL version starts and ends in the same places, but we don't know that.

Post
#244676
Topic
Stormtrooper with 4 eyes ::( or Stormtrooper showing terrible IVTC/telecine artefacts
Time
Originally posted by: Knightmessenger
Does the 4 eyes occur on the special edition laserdisc?


No. It doesn't appear on the 1997 SE, the PAL THX releases, the Japanese SC pre-THX releases, or several other pre-THX releases (i.e. France, Germany). It's only crapped up for the THX NTSC releases (DC and Faces) -- and now the 2006 DVDs.



Post
#244494
Topic
Limited Edition Packaging Scans
Time
Originally posted by: Raul2106
What some people don't understand is that there were imperfections in the original theatrical presentations of these films. The imperfections support the look and feel. Personally I think this was the best way Lucas could have released the original trilogy. Cleaning the print and taking out all those imperfections, along with adding anamorphic enhancement would have made it like another Special Edition release. I know many of the people here at originaltrilogy.com and other forums disagree. The fact of the matter is if you want what you got in theaters this is it. If you want pristine perfect anamorphic with no imperfections you want OUTE which stands for Original Unaltered Trilogy Enhanced. Perhaps you will get that for the 30th Anniversary?


This post made me chuckle. Are there really people this clueless in the world? Apparently there are. Amazing!

I think most people could have been pretty pleased with a nice, new anamorphic transfer of an existing print. Would there be some dust and flaws? Yeah, because some of that's in the original print. But that's cool. Just as long as no extra dust, noise, or 1993-spec Digital Video Noise Reduction was applied.

But that's not what was produced.

Hell, even Casablanca (almost 30 years older than Star Wars) looks much nicer on DVD, and doesn't change anything from the original. So there is no good technical reason not to have a first-rate transfer that's still faithful to the film.

Post
#244348
Topic
First Impressions of the OOT ...
Time
Originally posted by: Mielr
The colors [of the 2006 OUT] are much better than the laserdisc (vibrant, without looking 'smeary'), the skin tones especially look fantastic- much more natural and much less 'ruddy' than the laserdisc version.


I think you have to be a bit careful here: I think the best you can say is that the the 2006 OUT is "much better" than the laserdisc transfers you have seen. Because LD is analog, there can be quite a big difference between what's on the disc and what the player shows you. I would expect, for example, that you would be much less impressed with the OUT DVD when comparing it to the LD footage as displayed by a Pioneer HLD-X0 than you would be comparing it to captures made by some of the lesser players used for preservations around here.

Of course, not being (very) player dependent is one of the distinct advantages of DVD...