Jonno

I've made some improvements to my edit of msycamore's PCM 70mm mix transfer, and it now syncs perfectly to the BD video - if anyone would like to add it to their own BD rip (legally, of course) PM me for a link.

There are some good tips on adding new audio to BD video in the Jurassic Park thread if you need them.

Vintage 1979 ad and trailer reel to follow!

The Aluminum Falcon said:

Wait a second, out of curiosity, didn't Superman come out in '78? Unless you mean the teaser of Superman II...

 

You're right of course. I was working from a list of the biggest box office movies in 1979 - it never crossed my mind that Superman was still on release from the previous year.

The Empire teaser sounds like an apt choice - what's the best source for the McQuarrie version? The 2004 bonus disc?

msycamore said:

Not bad, how cool isn't that, that's how you geek out! It can't be the real thing can it? Anyway, everything looks extremely well made. :)

No, not the real thing sadly (as far as I'm aware, only two jackets were made for the production - Bob Burns has the Kane jacket, I have no idea where Dallas's ended up).

It's just a painstaking recreation - there's a whole thread on the RPF forums about Nostromo uniforms if you're interested in such things!

Rogue-theX said:

 

Awesome! Is that logo your work? I was looking around for one of those after it was mentioned in this thread but wasn't sure what they look like since i'm in Canada. That is what it would have looked like back in the day? What trailers are you using?

 

And thank you msycamore. :)

I should have properly credited See No Evil for his excellent recreation in my earlier post - I only modified it to represent Alien. I'm running the card through Digieffects AgedFilm to make it look like it's been doing the rounds a few years (though I'm resisting the urge - for the moment - to do the same to the film itself!)

As for trailers, the reel currently comprises Starcrash, Superman the Movie (teaser), Star Trek: the Motion Picture, Zombie, the Black Hole and Moonraker. So it's more representative of all of 1979 than any particular month! Any further suggestions? I can certainly share the result once the edit's done...

msycamore said:

That's pretty cool. Don't forget to wear your typical seventies clothes! :)

Actually, I was planning on going one better than that...

And thank you again for making this track available! Laserdisc tech pretty much passed me by (I was one of the many who went straight from VHS to DVD) so I'm reliant on others to handle that sort of thing - it's great to know there are people around with such great knowledge and skill.

By the way, I'm going a step further for my own viewing copy (premiering this weekend!) I''m trying to recreate the experience of seeing the movie theatrically in the UK in 1979, so I've pulled together a bunch of ads, contemporary trailers, and an old Dolby trailer to put at the start. Oh, and this too:

PM sent.

PM sent.

In case there's anyone still reading this thread who isn't a ranting conspiracy theorist with communication issues...

I've had some success with marrying up msycamore's excellent PCM rip of the 70mm mix with a 720p version of the Blu-ray video.

The result, as it stands, is a Blu-ray/AVCHD format disc which fits on a single layer DVD. No menus or other fancy stuff, just the movie with superb audio.

If you'd like to see/hear this, let me know - it's certainly a good stop-gap until the 5.1 version is succesfully ripped, and I should think a few of us are planning on re-watching the original movie ahead of the release of Prometheus NEXT WEEK!

TServo2049 said:

Jonno said:

Does anyone know what the story is on Close Encounters of the Third Kind? The DTS tracks on DVD and Blu-ray get univerally good reviews, but having never seen/heard the film theatrically I just wondered if the original 6-track mix had been significantly tampered with in its transition to home theatre (a la Jaws).

Jaws was mono. CE3K was 6-track.

Sorry, I should have been more clear - I was referring to the tampering rather than the type of mix. Not really a la Jaws in that respect.

Thanks for the info, it's good to know that the studios occasionally get these things right. It seems unlikely we'll ever hear the 70mm mix of Superman, unless someone decided to do a Hairy Hen style restoration (and even if someone were interested, what would the reference be?)

Just burned this and had a quick listen  - fantastic!

Since I don't have a Blu-ray burner (just yet) I used a 720p rip and burned it to a DL DVD - luckily there were no problems marrying the video and audio files, but I had to drop the original DTS track to make room (a bit of a shame, since it would have been fun to do some A/B comparisons).

My kit isn't fancy at all, indeed my receiver (Yamaha RX-V365) isn't HD capable (despite the presence of HDMI). I'll upgrade one day, but for now the core DTS is impressive enough - a genuinely cinematic sound with tremendous atmosphere and punch.

Thanks to all involved - let's hope to see more projects like this (and if anyone in this discussion has any ideas on extracting the 5.1 AC-3 from the THX Alien laserdisc, please weigh in on the other thread!)

Does anyone know what the story is on Close Encounters of the Third Kind? The DTS tracks on DVD and Blu-ray get univerally good reviews, but having never seen/heard the film theatrically I just wondered if the original 6-track mix had been significantly tampered with in its transition to home theatre (a la Jaws).

I wish I knew what any of that meant.

If you're in a PAL territory, the DVD release was an NTSC-PAL conversion - just adding insult to injury!

I'm a big fan of this film, it having made a big impression on me when I saw it theatrically - the director's cut just made it an even more satisfying experience.

I really hope the BD release turns up before long. It's sad to see this superior Cameron neglected while the more recent bloated efforts get all the attention (do I need to mention titles?) See also: True Lies.

I wonder if that was the same print I saw in Brighton a couple of years ago? The slight wear and tear only added to the authenticity, it was a fantastic experience. I'm going to try and talk that theatre into getting it back for another screening when Prometheus is released...

Holy grail indeed!

I suppose it's not surprising that no complete recordings of the ITV broadcast have surfaced around here - if you factor in the perceived irritation of having to fast forward through ad breaks and the (then) high cost of blank tapes, you can see why the majority of recordings would be abridged if not subsequently erased altogether.

I still have in my possession Russ's excellent transfer of an original - albeit ad-free - recording (Russ, thanks again and I promise I'll get the discs back to you ASAP!) There's a bit of material missing from the beginning and end, but the ad break bumpers are intact:

It might be possible to do a reconstruction of sorts, particularly given that some of the ads are on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neDwj8oTBdM

Presumably we could also piece together some other breaks of a similar vintage, perhaps include some Kenner ads or TV spots for contemporary movies, what do you think?

A couple of final points. First, it seems that there was a screening of a complete tape at this event last year: http://inda80s.cgeu.info/ (scroll to the bottom - that's a DVD cover I made, bizarrely!) I contacted them but to no avail, but perhaps you'll have more luck?

Second, just for nostalgia's sake here's a PDF of the TV Times from that week:

http://www.box.com/s/56169ff8b190cf2dac29

http://www.box.com/s/d294966e7ffb94eb2a32

Enjoy!

What vintage is your PC? I recently upgraded mine... the audio in the new rig is some onboard Dell nonsense with no digital connections whatsoever, but my old - albeit dead - PC still has its marvellous Soundblaster Audigy Platinum with SPDIF in/out via both coaxial and optical. I don't have PCI slots anymore, but if you do then the card is yours!

I've made a couple of tweaks to the version summary above to appease my OCD tendencies!

Bottom line? Even if the 4.1 were based on the 6-track mix, it's apparently been tampered with (possibly at the director's behest). This leaves the 1999 DVD and the 1995 laser as the best sources for the original mixes.

Our Mission Should We Choose To Accept It? Create a theatrical preservation using Blu-ray video and the two audio tracks from the earlier DVD and laser releases. We could go further and look at colour correcting the video too (since it's undeniably altered from the original release), but that rather depends on how much it bothers people - I personally don't mind it, but I know it's an issue for some. We might also include the 1999 commentary and production audio tracks, seeing as these didn't survive the transition to Quadrilogy nor Anthology releases.

I can probably do most of the actual assembly and authoring, but the one thing I don't have is that laserdisc mix. Let me know what progress you make there!

Moth3r said:

Jonno said:

Great additional info! Let's see if we can summarise then:

...

1995 THX laserdisc - 5.1 AC-3 and 2.0 PCM (based on 6-track 70mm master)

Although the AC3 is stated as being from the 70mm 6-track, I'm wondering if the PCM on this LD could be based on the 35mm Dolby Stereo mix? That would be interesting.

From the cover scan that msycamore posted, "The six-track magnetic sound masters used in the original 70mm theatrical prints were utilized to create the sound tracks for this widescreen laser disc release of Alien." So yeah, I take it to be both tracks, even though the PCM couldn't possibly replicate all of the channel information (correct me if I'm wrong). If only all releases had this kind of useful information printed on them...

More frustrating reading in this Blu-ray.com thread. The guy is completely confident that the 70mm was the source for the 4.1, but doesn't explain how he knows that. The lack of dialogue differences would certainly indicate otherwise (hopefully someone else with the Blu can back me up on this!)

And in any case, wouldn't the proper representation of this particular 6-track mix (with split surrounds) be 5.1? Seems more likely that this 4.1 would be an honestly-labelled repeat of the mono-surround 35mm upmix from 1999.

An awesome opportunity here, by the way... sadly I'm at the wrong end of the UK to enjoy this 70mm screening!

Great additional info! Let's see if we can summarise then:

Theatrical release - 70mm 6-track and Dolby Stereo

1992 special edition laserdisc - Dolby Surround (probably from Dolby Stereo master)

1995 THX laserdisc - 5.1 AC-3 and 2.0 PCM (based on 6-track 70mm master)

1999 DVD - 5.1 (actually 4.1) and 2.0 AC-3 (based on Dolby Stereo master - both mixes sound exactly the same)

2003 DVD - 5.1 AC-3 and DTS (new mix with Director's Cut variation)

2010 Blu-ray - 5.1 DTS (new mix with Director's Cut variation), 4.1 AC-3 (who knows? ;) ) and 2.0 AC-3 (very 'smooth' sounding - since it's available for both Theatrical and Director's cuts, it's probably a compatibility-minded downmix of the new version)

Feel free to add or amend. The laserdisc is looking more and more important, but the lack of info on that 4.1 is deeply frustrating - I'll delve through HTF's message boards to see if something ever came up (and doesn't Charles DeLauzirika host a forum there?)

I've had a more extended listen to the three tracks on the Blu. Unfortunately the additional Kane lines you mention are also included on the 4.1... more evidence that it isn't the 70mm, or at least not the original 70mm. More detail from this short 2002 thread on AVS:

The problem with the
current DVD vs. the THX Certified Dolby AC-3 RF LaserDisc is not only
one of bass, but the fact that two different masters were used.



The LD's Dolby Digital track is encoded using the 70mm 6-track master. 
It does contain sound cue and music cue errors that Ridley Scott wanted
fixed, however.  It was one of those rare 6 track mixes that was the
model for today's 5.1 surround (another was Apocalypse Now's 70mm
track): three front channels, two stereo surround channels, and a "baby
boom" channel. 



Notice I did say stereo surrounds. 



Which brings me to the DVD we have at the moment.  It has the sound
corrections Ridley Scott wanted.  Now here comes the problem:  they
didn't fix the 70mm 6-track master, they mistakenly chose the 4 channel
Dolby Stereo printmaster to correct.  Meaning, no low bass "rumble"
track and mono surrounds.



...



Dan

It is of course possible that the errors, i.e. missing lines, from the original 70mm mix were reinserted for this Blu presentation. And it's otherwise a strong sounding track - impressive bass on the Nostromo landing sequence, particularly in comparison to the 2.0 surround track (which presumably comes from the 35mm stereo mix).

Bottom line - I'd really like to have a listen to that laserdisc track! I have neither a laserdisc player, the disc itself nor the necessary PC tech - there are folks on this thread discussing capture of digital streams from laser, so there may be some ideas there as to how we might organise a preservation. Does your friend have the means to do any sort of capture, M, even if it's a little basic?

Hmmm... I've just checked the three sound mixes on the Blu (DTS, Dolby 4.1 and Dolby 2.0) and not only is the "Kane's son" line present on all of them, the take used for Dallas' "Morning Mother" sounds exactly the same! I even popped in the 20th anniversary DVD for comparison - the two tracks on that release sound no different in those scenes.

Is the '95 laserdisc possibly the only proper preservation of the 70mm mix? Thanks for the reminder of that, by the way. I've never seen/heard that disc but I was aware of its existence. I wonder if that track has ever been extracted (not sure of the ins and outs of AC-3 on laser).

And I'm aware that these posts have been wildly off-topic, so perhaps we should discuss this elsewhere! It's just that I saw a 70mm screening about 15 years ago, and its raw and vital quality made quite an impression on me - none of the Blu audio tracks have quite the same effect.

hairy_hen said:

Either way, the result would be a 4.1 mix with monaural surround, similar to what appears on the Bluray releases of Alien and Aliens.  (The fact that those include their 70mm audio shows that it can be done easily enough as long as proper care is taken.)

Were the 70mm mixes ever properly confirmed as the source for these tracks? It seemed to be the most likely case (what with their being 4.1 as opposed to 5.1) but since the menus and packaging are so reluctant to discuss any technical specifics...

It seems that BDtoAVCHD is more of a shrink tool, hence the insistence on re-encoding.

If it's actually authoring you're after, MultiAVCHD is well worth a look... It can generated a menu structure with a certain degree of control (using an interface which is admittedly rather fiddly) and most importantly doesn't re-encode compliant streams.

Worth a shot, it's free!

4-reel scope Derann version on Ebay (with mysterious Jedi artwork...)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAR-WARS-SUPER-8MM-SOUND-SUPER-8-FULL-FILM-VGC-/400278540685?pt=UK_DVD_Film_TV_OtherFormats_GL&hash=item5d3275d18d