The point I got from the Thau quote was less that the extant 70mm track was damaged, and more that it had been badly made by inexperienced people. The description of the dialogue placement in particular just sounds... strange.
RRS-1980 said:
Jonno said:
Whoosh...
Please do elaborate.
Georgec's comment was clearly ironic and made for humorous effect - you might have taken it a tad too seriously.
Anyway, this is very strange thread considering the OP's thesis is "I haven't seen the original version - should it be remade?" More watching, less posting would seem the best approach...
RRS-1980 said:
Shia who?
Why would he be so important to SW reboot?
Because he once played Indiana's son? And this makes him automatic choice for Solo?
Are there really so few actors in Hollywood? (Or UK? Or Canada?) All you can do is to repeat the media buzz? Don't you have own ideas, visions?
Whoosh...
Here's the finished reel:
I'm sure I've made a mistake or two in terms of correct vintage, but hopefully the overall feel is right!
Oh! I don't know where I got that from - I've only ever known that eariler version as 'Pillars', and I know the tune is called Asteroid, but for some reason... oh well!
PM coming your way.
Hi Raphael, thanks for all the feedback!
The 70's style BBFC certificates were originally made up in Gimp by forum member See No Evil - see the original discussion here. I'm afraid most of the detail was embedded in the background layer so I can't advise on the fonts nor offer the signatures as vectors, but if you'd like that template (or any of my Photoshop-based variants) drop me your email address via PM. The resolution as it stands is certainly good enough for HD work.
I've actually just finished this reel, but for what it's worth I think I've covered most of your requests - I'm a bit confused by your Pearl and Dean description though, the 'Towers' intro (as I used in the Alien intro linked above) is the pah-pah-pah-pah-pah-pah one, i.e. the good one!
Interesting question re. the Curzon. The Curzon I've used as the basis for this (somewhat stylised) image is an independent place I used to work at. I was using a recent photo for the signage but as this 1978 photo shows, it hasn't really changed all that much!
I'll report back once I've uploaded this somewhere for viewing. MKV and/or BD folder will also be available shortly - what's going to be useful to people?
skyjedi2005 said:Since they could not even be bothered with a decent restoration of superman 1 for blu ray much less the 70mm 6 track audio in HD, or the 35mm stereo in HD. No they had the bad new 5.1 in HD.
The theatrical stereo is on the anthology disc in DTS-HD.
As for the 70mm, I can understand why it wasn't included - see msycamore's post here for the problems with it.
Moth3r said:
AVI, MP4 and MKV are neither formats nor codecs; they are all containers.
MPEG-4 Part 2 and MPEG-4 Part 10 (aka H.264) are formats.
A codec (encoder/decoder) is a software library such as Xvid or x264 (actually I think x264 is an encoder only, but you get the idea).
Yeah, I get that - sorry if it wasn't clear in my original post.
Thanks for all the ideas folks. I guess -1's 'blanket' approach is the only way to be sure (and certainly justified for a project of such importance). In order to make things a little more straightforward myself I'm leaning towards an H.264 derivative (MP4 or MKV) for uploading, with an old-fashioned DVD/BD disc for archival purposes.
Side question: for my SD project (ITV broadcast reconstruction) I'm wondering whether to make an AVCHD disc with the video encoded as 576p H.264. I'm thinking the quality benefits over MPEG-2 DVD should be apparent (particularly since the source is already MPEG-2), but since this doesn't seem a very common solution I'm wondering if there's some problem I've missed (other than limiting compatibility to Blu-ray players)?
Ah, would that be a Psycho or Jaws discussion by any chance?
Fair points all round, though I was more interested to know what we as fan editors and preservationists should be aiming for (as opposed to what the studios - with all their resources - can potentially provide).
For example, do you agree that an MP4 is comparable to DVD MPEG-2 for SD? Should we still be bothering to burn DVDs when more efficient codecs can yield equivalent (or higher) quality in a smaller file?
This is an interesting discussion! I've found the whole issue of delivery formats quite unhelpful - my media player, for example, can't play 5.1 AAC so MP4s have to go through a conversion to MKV/AC3 before I can use them (and the fact that MP4s can't - or at least don't - contain AC-3 raises some issues regarding preservation).
Since I'll be turning out a couple of projects shortly I'm also concerned with the formats I should be packaging my stuff into for the best results - I could of course just produce VIDEO_TS or BDMV folders for burning, but I'd like to think we're getting past that now.
Anyway, I've started a thread here in case anyone has any thoughts they'd like to contribute!
I was inspired to start this thread by a little exchange on current video formats/codecs - AVI, MP4, MKV et al - in TK421138's thread. At the moment I'm working on both an SD project and an HD one, and when they're finished I'd like to know what the best way to get them out there is. If we're finally moving past the era of physical DVDs and BDs, what should we be using? I found this quote from retardedted in his 1982 VHS preservation thread particularly interesting:
And I would just upload the video as an MP4 because I honestly can't tell the difference between that and a DVD and the year is 2012. Time to get with it.
Single-file distribution makes sense for easy exchange and for playback in media players (which folks are increasingly leaning towards), but I'm concerned that convenience doesn't mean compromise. The audio and video quality is of course the prime concern, particularly where preservation projects are concerned - I know I wouldn't want to sacrifice an authentic look and sound for the sake of convenience, either as a maker or as a viewer.
And what about menus - are they considered redundant these days, as long as the viewer has the means to switch audio/subs?
In addition to file preferences I'd really like to hear some suggestions for tools to use (including recommended settings) - there's so much experience and knowledge here it would be great to get some tips together for ease of reference.
I realise there probably aren't definitive answers to this (at least, not at this point in time) but I thought a discussion on where we are right now might be useful. What do you think?
<p>I don't know the Cyberlink software, but if you're prepared to spend a little more (about USD200 from the looks of things) this is an excellent package for PC-based editing: http://www.grassvalley.com/products/edius_neo_3/ (I use the 'grown up' version for most of my projects, and this Neo version should easily have everything you need).</p>
<p>Puggo's right though, it's well worth checking that none of the existing projects suit your needs. The guys on here have produced versions of the original trilogy better than any official home video releases (now and for quite some time into the future).</p>
<p>Hi msycamore, thanks for stopping by! The original broadcast was definitely October 1982 (see the TV Times listings magazine I posted earlier in the thread). One of my projects for the summer is a decent assembly of this version - I have some very good DVD copies from an original recording (courtesy of Russ), and I need to compile the best versions along with a bit of authoring polish.</p>
<p>I'll drop danny_boy a PM - the ideal version would include the broadcast ad breaks, which have their own nostalgic appeal for those of us who grew up in 1980s UK (the recordings I have unfortunately don't include these).</p>
<p>edit: what's up with the HTML today?</p>
Interesting reading. I've just started a thread in preservations about a proposed reconstruction project - I'd be glad to hear of any thoughts on what should go into it!
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/1977-UK-theatre-intro-reconstruction/topic/14490/
Leading on from this thread regarding original cinema screenings…
I recently had a lot of fun putting together a vintage 1979 theatrical intro to accompany a viewing of Alien - you can see that here. I’m about to do the same thing to put before Harmy’s newly specialised Star Wars, and I’d appreciate any thoughts on what would properly belong - especially from those with good memories of original viewings (something I don’t have, since my earliest viewing was a 1981 SW/ESB double bill).
I should stress up front that this is all about the experience of viewing in a UK cinema (i.e. in December 1977) though I’d actively encourage a US side-project if those programmes inspire similar nostalgia!
Here’s what I have in mind so far:
If anyone has any thoughts on any of this, I’d love to hear them. It would be great to make this as authentic as possible through our collective expertise - once it’s finished I can then get it distributed in suitable formats for folks to use in their own screenings.
Lovely animation (at least on a par with the GOUT menus, and those are pretty darned good).
I'd favour a single, smooth glide into position too.
A quick question about this release in case anyone knows the answer...
Disc 3, the 'original album restored and completed', runs to 20 tracks at a length of 78'41"... the original double album totalled 17 tracks at 74'34".
Can anyone point me to ABC's explanation of these changes? I just wondered in what sense the album had been 'completed' by the addition of ~4 mins of material (and redefining/resequencing the tracks). Personal preference or something more precise?
Can MP4s contain audio codecs other than AAC? MKVs seem to handle anything (AC3, DTS, PCM etc.) but I've only seen MP4s using the more modern codec (and it's certainly all that Handbrake allows when encoding).
Do you happen to have the authoring tech to do a branched option on that sequence (a la Mike's archival/signature variants)? Of course that might open a whole can o' worms where other judgement calls have been necessary...
Have other UK folks been enjoying the BBFC centenary cards as much as I have? They've been resurrecting the old styles one by one, and they're currently up to the lovely 1970s versions (which automatically make the films that follow that much more exciting).
More info here: http://www.bbfc.co.uk/about/bbfc-centenary/
I've emailed to see if they're prepared to provide some hi-rez versions.
msycamore said:
What surprises me the most, is the extreme re-editing that took place, I simply cannot understand the reason for it other than it was done just for the sake of re-doing it. I'm no editor, but I cannot see what the new editing accomplish other than being different. I mean he was the editor on the original film, he and assistant editor Marcia had already done a great job on it. Sigh...
Don't forget Walter Murch - the visual/audio montages have his fingerprints all over them (especially the opening).
Referring to your earlier question, I assume the 2004 version's subtitle was a marketing ruse aimed at those who hadn't heard of it - it's the director's cut of the film, and that director is none other than GEORGE LUCAS!
Of course, as you rightly suggest, it isn't really a director's cut - it's a film where large chunks have been remade. The "We couldn't achieve what we wanted to at the time" mantra is especially hollow in this case - of course they couldn't achieve these CG vistas in the early 70s, no-one could... they simply made the best film they could under the circumstances (subsequent studio meddling aside).
What's particularly frustrating is how beautiful the restored (as opposed to altered) footage frequently is, particularly on the BD. Sadly I think this might be too big a repair job even for an Adywan or a Harmy...
Thanks Erik, glad you like it.
A reel of product commercials has been a standing fixture in UK cinemas since the 1960s - there are many whole reels (of various vintages) on Youtube if you go looking. The cigarette industry in particular thrived in this arena (especially in the period after tobacco advertising was banned on television) hence the very creative and expensive commercials on display here.
Re. the Star Trek trailer, this is from the DVD, and has a 5.1 mix - the strange panning was part of the original (though here it's folded down to simple stereo).
The Black Hole trailer is also from DVD. I haven't been able to find a 16:9 version anywhere, and cropping would destroy the (already cut-down) image so I had to leave it as-is - not very satisfying, I know. Any thoughts on where I might find a widescreen version?
Here's the theatrical intro reel:
https://vimeo.com/43461886
I'd be glad to hear of any improvements I can make to it - I think I got the vintage about right, but an anachronism or two have very likely slipped in!
A 1080p MKV can be supplied on request if you'd like to splice this onto the front of your own Alien presentations.
RIJIR will have to give you an official answer, but considering the source material available - a large quantity of which still only exists as 4:3 letterboxed footage prepared for laserdisc - an HD version of the redux edit doesn't seem very worthwhile. I think meedermow wrung about as much quality out of this project as was possible when he upscaled it to 16:9 for the appendix release (RIJIR had edited in 4:3 originally).
As for the other appendices, it's pretty much the same story - most of the source material was DVD quality at best (much of it significantly below, and I mean that affectionately). BD might afford a better storage solution, but if you'd like them re-built as larger archives I'm afraid you'll have to make your own menus ;)
(BTW it's possible there's a lot of current interview material and such doing the rounds for Prometheus, and that would likely be in HD. I'm of the feeling that anything worthwhile - the online viral clips and such - will be on the official release, but I daresay TB1971 is collating all of this stuff just in case!)