Jonno

0

Phew...

No problem. I'll start with the capture process since that's the most fiddly, but can follow up with details on the later stages if you need them. This is the procedure for capturing standard PCM - I don't know what the deal is with DTS, but I assume you'll need to use a different app for the capture (unless the RAW save option in Wave Studio gives you a workable file).

Anyway, I've found that the bit-matched setting in this card is a bit fragile, i.e. it's easily disturbed - for that reason it's best to switch it on at the very last minute. So the first step is actually to go into the Creative Audio Control Panel and switch off bit-matched recording:

Next, make sure your input is set correctly. Open the recording properties via the speaker icon on the taskbar, make sure you have Digital-In selected as the source, then look at its properties. Under 'Levels' ensure that you are set to 50%/0dB, then under advanced set the format to 44.1/16 and disable Exclusive Mode.

Now open Wave Studio. There aren't any settings to make here, since it follows the sound card's lead as far as input goes.

The final step before you capture is to reopen the Control Panel and enable Bit-matched recording:

Then it's finally time to start your disc playing and hit the red record button in Wave Studio:

Unlike Audition you won't see the waveform appearing progressively, but you should see the level meters nice and active.

When you've finished your capture you'll see the waveform for the whole file, and have the opportunity to preview it.

Finally save your capture as standard PCM.

That ought to do it! Let me know how you get on.

It's been a while since I looked at the file, but IIRC the AR is fine but the letterboxing has been cropped - most hardware players won't know what to do with the non-standard resolution so they stretch out the existing image to fit 16:9.

UncropMKV will sort this out - it restores the image to true 16x9 (letterboxed, obv.)

Rob, I need to send you a long email! Speak later.

Someone with an original US disc would have to answer that one - I'd speculate that the frames are probably all there in the EVOs, and there's a problem with navigation (or perhaps just with the software used to join Andrea's file, as previously mentioned).

Yeah, I've found Audition to be an awkward bugger with my newer X-Fi card - it refuses to capture, complaining of mismatched input/output rates (and it doesn't help that setting the card to exclusively output 44.1/16 locks up the system).

Here's what works for me: Capture in Wave Studio > Upsample in iZotope RX > Edit in Audition.

Just letting each app do what it's best at...

Just to be a bit more specific, Andrea's file of the HD-DVD video was missing frames at the joint between the two EVOs on the original disc - they may be genuinely absent from the US version, or they might have been missed by the software used to join them.

I just had to look at my UK copy to compare, and extract the missing frames - it's the same encode, the US version was just improperly assembled.

Well, I'd suggest starting with full stops and seeing how that goes... no point in running before you can walk.

Yes. The SD video master.

Would this have even been edited on film, i.e. was it ever used theatrically?

If its purpose was exclusively as a home cinema demo it probably only exists in the SD video domain.

theprequelsrule said:

It has come to my attention that people are defending Alien 3 on this website. The movie sucked. It was a boring retread of the original without the terror, suspense or interesting artistic designs. Plus, no pulse rifles.

TMBTM said:

So, we can't complain about Alien 3 but we are allowed to complain about Alien 4? Nice. But I already made a fanedit of Alien 4, I'm in peace with this movie now.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I haven't heard anyone say that Alien 3 is a bad film (yet)... It's the Hicks and Newt thing that I'd have thought people would have come to terms with by now. I can understand it coming as a shock in 1992, but with the proper perspective it can be seen as emblematic of the series as a whole: in this battle, everyone loses.

Oh well, if you're still not happy about I guess you could fanedit that too.

Bingowings said:

The point I was making is Alien isn't about Ripley or her 'family' it's not even really just about the creatures it's about the adjective as much as the noun.

It's about the disturbing qualities of something being where it normally isn't.

Aliens was a lesser movie but Ripley, Hicks and Newt were still as much and Aliens and survivors as the creatures.

If the next one had gone down the soap route it would have fundamentally altered the nature of the series it was brave to shatter that possibility.

Well said. I would have hoped that folks had come around to what Alien 3 was trying to achieve by now - quit griping, it's over 20 years old! If you want something to complain about, just look at the genuine balls-up that is Alien Resurrection (which makes the critical error of insisting that the series is all about Ripley, against all logic and good taste).

The Star Wars analogy would be the single-minded (or is that simple-minded?) obsession with Jedi and Sith which the prequels and their progeny have relentlessly peddled - at least Abrams can be counted on to give the new films slightly broader scope.

TMBTM said:

Beginning the ST with the Empire still controling the galaxy would be like killing Newt and Hicks in the opening scene of Alien 3, IMO.

As in, dramatically justified and probably resulting in a better film? Interesting point.

Yep, the HD mix should be included for posterity, and naturally a lossless encode would be preferable.

In terms of English tracks, the proper (i.e. chronological) hierarchy would be:

Theatrical stereo PCM (from Signature) >>> Home video stereo PCM (from Letterbox edition) >>> HD 5.1 remix (from HD-DVD or BD)

GregK said:

Not to muddy the waters any further, but IF I recall correctly, the non-anamorphic DVD release of THE THING was a true discrete 4.1 port over, with no split surrounds. It is encoded as DD 5.1, but only has mono surrounds.

Later mixes were altered where the surrounds had some minor surround left/right activity. I don't know if it was a full blown remix or if simple directionality was added to the surrounds with the mix other than that left "as-is", as was done with CLOSE ENCOUNTERS.

Have been wanting to compare the two mixes and reconfirm my recollections, but the schedule here has been chaotic as of late...

Ah, that's really useful - thanks! So in my original timeline the 1998 5.1 mix (found on the Signature laserdisc as well as the non-anamorphic DVD) was actually a discrete upmix of the theatrical Dolby Stereo, with the 'proper' remix happening later, perhaps the anamorphic re-release or  maybe just the HD versions.

In the event I spent the time syncing the 1998 Signature PCM to the HD-DVD, and it sounds absolutely terrific. You'll find it in Andrea's project, hopefully very soon...

(By the way, the HD mix is most definitely a remix. I found numerous alterations when using it as the sync reference - mostly altered sound editing, smoothed-out 'splosions and such).

This guy's done stacks of lovely concept art/illustration - a few are specifically Star Wars influenced, but any would look the part for a return to the 'used universe' look.

http://bearfoot.cgsociety.org/gallery/1118099/

FWIW I've just purchased the Batman and Batman Returns laserdiscs with PCM stereo. I'll certainly be capturing and syncing the first (since it reflects the excellent theatrical Dolby Stereo) but not too sure whether to bother with Returns - presumably the DVD 5.1 is a better representation of the theatrical mix in this case (it having been Dolby Digital to begin with). Thoughts?

A simpler way would be to do two captures of the same source at significantly different recording levels - if one recording is a higher volume than the other, they're being resampled (since gain cannot apply to a pure digital transfer).

Since you'd naturally expect to be able to adjust the gain, the default setting on your hardware will almost certainly be set to resample - sound cards with bit-matching (such as the Creative X-Fi mentioned above) have a specific option than needs to be checked to enable it.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

the following soundtracks must be syncronized:

• LD NTSC PCM english 2.0 from 1990 (must check if it's different from PAL)

It will be the same mix, if that's what you're wondering (the initial home video release with the song replacement). I wouldn't expect the presentation/mastering to be any different but it may be worth having a listen.

SilverWook said:

I would at least hope it's shot in 3D instead of a conversion.

I'd hope for the opposite, actually - that way we'll have a well shot 2D version to enjoy in the short term (assuming we can find a 2D screening) and a film that will sit happily alongside the existing films when this ludicrous 3D bubble finally bursts.

Well, actually it's Dolby Stereo ;-)

(Dolby Stereo - unlike 'regular' 2-channel stereo - is normally a L, R, C, S 4-channel mix. So yes it has a surround component, but it's still named stereo. Confusing. Perhaps they should have called it quadrophonic after all).

Looking forward to hearing that Thunderdome track fellas. Let me know if you need any sync assistance.

FremenDar007 said:

Andrea, I'll see what the filesize is for THE THING Blu-ray I have for the DTS-HD MA 5.1. I'm leaving the DTS Core track which is embedded in the lossless audio.

I agree that this track should be included if there's room. What do you mean when you say you're 'leaving' the DTS core? You can't take it out and use *just* the HD extensions - it's all or nothing. The only part you can use on its own *is* the core, (SD DTS at 640 kb/s IIRC), but then of course it wouldn't be lossless any more.

As I mentioned, this track should be the default track for the BD25,
which includes the DTS Core, the PCM Laserdisc audio next and then the
dubs.

I disagree that it should be default however. A modern remix is automatically lower in the food chain than original theatrical audio, lossless or not. But it's Andrea's project so I'll leave that choice up to him...

The fans may be the ones who keep the franchise ticking over between big releases, but it's the moviegoing public at large that need to be considered the most.

The best chance this film has of being a creative and commercial success is for it to be as fresh and dynamic as Star Wars was is 1977 - hard to achieve if you're hamstrung by 20 years of overcomplicated 'canon'.

I was wondering that. The Thrawn trilogy is fantastic (and I'm now sorely tempted to spend my summer re-reading it) but if you think Arndt is poring over it to ensure he connects all the dots you're sorely mistaken (let alone the sprawling remainder of the EU).

Ah, got it. It's a pity more films didn't find themselves in that situation.