Any chance I could get the link too please? Thanks for your help.
So having rewatched both clips I can hear the announcement on the second clip - on first viewing (on my phone) I hadn’t noticed the announcement and had actually thought the audio glitched slightly, but being a test clip thought nothing of it. On my laptop I could hear it fine, but given that you had to point it out to me, I would say it was perhaps a little subtle - also perhaps if there could be a pause in Anakin’s line it could highlight that he has stopped to listen to it, and act as the viewer’s prompt that it is of some relevance so we should notice it too.
In your first clip the line about if Padme is “seeing anyone” bugged me - I don’t object to the idea behind it but the word seeing didn’t sit quite right. Perhaps something like “I heard she is no longer with her partner” could get the same meaning across without sounding quite as casual modern day speech? (This is all very much personal preference though).
Annoyingly I made a mock up of the Vader vision scene a long time ago, and also an incredibly rough version of the Obi Wan and Padme rescuing Anakin scene (where they all rode out of the arena on the Reek) but have lost them both some time back (always back up your work eh) so I cannot offer any visual help. I agree in terms of if you move the end to the start then how do you end the movie. The best I could think was to have a structure roughly like this:
- Open with Obi Wan and Padme rescuing Anakin - use the scene with Padme seated speaking to Dooku. This plays out as per the film but tweaked to avoid reference to rescuing Obi Wan. Once the beasts are brought into the arena they all escape their chains and ride the Reek out of the arena, back to the ship and all fly home (no Windu, other jedi, or clones).
- Increase Dooku’s screen time and have the assassination plot, leading to Obi Wan solving his mystery plot, but that leads him to Dooku’s other super secret hiding planet and there he has an even bigger droid army so best bring the clones in to fight them - this would be as per the film but without the arena beasts part, leading right through to the Dooku showdown (ideally without Yoda). Downside is without some hugely impressive editing Dooku’s choice in planets would appear very singular.
- Between this beginning and ending, I would also choose to save the Anakin side trip to visit his mum after having the force vision I previously described. I’d also like to add the scene with Vader’s name, and more Dooku scenes, and reintegrate deleted scenes such as Obi Wan speaking about Count Dooku.
All in all though I fully accept that this would probably be very choppy and a lot of work to get there so probably wouldn’t be worth it. In the interest of throwing random ideas around though I still like it - I’m just not sure how to make it work as it is such a big change around.
Just some extra food for thought. Can we hear your idea for protecting the Vader reveal you hinted at yet lol?
Hi SSWR, in your last clip, when the ship is arriving on Naboo rather than a “here’s our stop” type of comment, could you have a background voice announcing their arrival - it just seemed very sudden in the clip. I also liked the humour with Anakin, and I think it worked as humour, but it did feel slightly less Star Warsy (a technical term) to me. On the whole though I think your ideas for creating new lines which also fit the lip movements, timing, and feel of the scene, are unrivaled across this site so I’m looking forward to seeing more of your ideas.
Regarding your mentions of out of the box ideas and reusing footage, here are a few ideas i have for my ideal edit (which will probably never happen - also some of these may have come from things I’ve read here through the years so not trying to claim exclusive originality on these).
Make Dooku a rogue jedi with a white lightsaber (it signifies his leaving the jedi order and lack of affiliation to any side), and increase his lines as much as humanly possible. Christopher Lee has done so much voice work you can probably create any line if you spend long enough looking for the right sources (book readings like Sherlock Holmes for example). Also if you have him as a hooded hologram in scenes or his face covered by a mask, that gives you even more freedom).
I fully support the prior idea of cutting Yoda as much as possible (ideally completely). I would love to see a seen where Obi Wan talks to Anakin about one of the strongest of the ancient Jedi Masters, Vader, who Anakin wants to become as powerful as, and eventually takes the name Darth Vader as a corruption of this. It would make the choice of new name less random, and also if Vader were shown as a statue somewhere to be a large human male, then come ESB, having Yoda being the most powerful, and non human, and tiny, really adds to this twist.
Whilst I agree that flashbacks aren’t Star Warsy, force visions are ok, and there can be some cross over there. My suggestions would be the scene where Anakin rescues his mum. If you reverse parts of the footage and only show slowed down brief snippets then you could make it seem that Anakin’s vision is his mum being tied up rather than untied. If you change the colouring and add a very light sound of Vader’s breathing then it would make for good foreshadowing. Then the scene where Anakin leaves the Tusken tent and slashes at the Tusken, that could have the lightsaber changed to red and the face obscured. The rest of the costume is dark and flowy enough that if his face could be replaced with a Darth Vader style helmet it would suggest he is dreaming about a bad guy who isn’t him.
Another vocal recasting I would love but I imagine would be way too much work would be replacing all of Anakin’s lines with lines from Orson Welles. Whilst he may not necessarily sound like JEJ he has a paced and distinct way of speaking which I just think would transition perfectly.
As for the structure of the film, I would open with the shots of Anakin and Padme landing on Geonosis to rescue Obi Wan, but change it to Padme and Obi Wan rescuing Anakin. This would open with an action sequence, and establish these three as the main characters, with Anakin and Padme already being in a relationship. Show it from the get go and it makes it easier for the viewer to believe it as they aren’t having to believe it building up.
Anyway those are just some random ideas for you, but as I said I’ve really enjoyed reading your ideas so far so keep up the good work.
The idea of the blade changing briefly to red reminds me of a discussion on this site ages ago where people were debating whether to have Luke’s eyes turn red briefly as he is defeating Vader in RotJ. The thought was that it would show how close he was to the dark side before stopping himself and his eyes would return to normal.
Some people thought this was a good idea but some people thought the visual would be overkill as the scene shows what’s happening perfectly without this.
Personally I feel it is similar to the idea of “show, don’t tell” - but in this case it would be “don’t lay it on TOO thick”. Where the scene already portrays something I’d say let the visuals enhance it, but the problem with the prequels is many scenes don’t convey things in a particularly elegant way, so some visual assistance could be good, but could also be somewhat overpowering and cause the film to feel dumbed down.
Just some food for thought. I did like the trailer though and am looking forward to seeing more of your work.
I’d also be quite interested to take a look if that’s ok?
Genuinely more excited for this edit with every clip you share. Absolutely brilliant to see such ambitious ideas taking form.
Hal 9000 said:
…Hayden in the ROTJ unmasking scene?
I’d be curious to see that mocked up. Just curious. I wonder how it’d look to map Hayden’s face over Shaw’s for the ghost scene, too. Better? It’d be hard not for it to be.
Seems like a fun thing to play with.
In the interest of seeing how well it works - I wonder if good enough footage of the older actors from the OT could be found of when they are younger and placed over their PT equivalents?
It’s worth noting that this technique is still very new and the way it works is that once you have collected your data (in this case images of Leia’s face and the frames of the scene they are going to be placed over) the program carries out almost all of the work.
You’d need a good PC and several hours to leave it to run, but if that’s the results after say a day of unsupervised computing then with a bit of after effects work the results could be even better.
If that could be coupled with something like the recent trailer that was released of the remade duel between obi wan and Vader then I think it could have some real potential.
Quite some time ago someone suggested their ideal intro (apologies for not remembering who) which went something along the lines of:
Luke finishing construction of his lightsaber near the dark side cave shown in ESB. Luke then walks into the cave and is again faced with Vader, but this time Luke deactivated his saber and Vader disappears as his lightsaber would connect with Luke.
The idea was to show Luke has grown not only by building his lightsaber but also by learning from his previous failure in the cave.
Now I always liked the idea of something like this being shown after Yoda’s death but before Luke leaves Dagobah but I can see justifications for either way round.
The reason I bring it up is firstly I think it would look really good - Luke building his lightsaber isn’t necessary but it could be a really cool scene that fits perfectly into the OT. But also to make the scene you’d need a body double, a good costume, and some good models/background paintings. And all that is before the actual filming necessities. But if someone went that far for the few shots of building the lightsaber then why not add a few more of Luke standing to enter the cave, deactivating the lightsaber, etc, as the majority of the parts needed would be the same, and most of it could be done without any clear shots of Luke’s face.
Just another thought to throw into the mix.
Where you have palatine using his new powers to create the army of the Republic, could you instead have it as “use” the army of the Republic. I’m not sure how it would fit in with your ideas for the following films but I figure it implies the army is already around and everyone knows it, but he is authorising its use and not its creation and would make him seem like a politician who is helping in the crisis and not just out to create his own person army which people should maybe question a little deeper.
I would say choose anyone passable and dig through the footage to see who has the best fit from the material available. Another name that was previously thrown around a while back was Robert Powell, but although I think he would be a fine choice, I just doubt there would be suitable footage. In theory even a few good shots would allow for a younger Tarkin to be added to the background of some scenes just to help add consistency between the trilogies.
Funny you should mention Capaldi as I think the idea of ‘casting’ a younger Tarkin came up somewhere on this site before and someone suggested Christopher Ecclestone. Again an entirely different actor would be needed for the voice though.
Replacing Sidious with Grievous is an interesting idea. I had always liked the idea of trying to imply that Maul became Grievous (though admittedly that brings more problems too) so I’d not considered the idea of suggesting the two work together.
I agree completely. However, even masking off the face area and dropping the lighting to create a blacked out hood and keep the effect looking neat would take an awful lot of work. Whilst I would like to think it could be done another way I’m not even sure of another method which could be applied. Even with an actor like Christopher Lee who has been in so many movies, I’ve still been struggling to find any shots which could be convincingly added to the jedi scenes to make him look like part of the council. I think then trying to find more shots of him to replace Sidious would be impossible (unfortunately). Though if Sidious’s voice were changed then rather than just running the existing voice through a filter, whole new lines could be made without the worry of matching lip movements. Again not a perfect solution because it would look a little cheap, but perhaps one where the benefits could outweight that.
If you were to take out Darth Sidious in episode 1 and 2, you would need to either replace him with someone, or you would need to cut all the related scenes, which would reduce the quality of the movie.(quality is already very very low and many other scenes already need to be cut, you would lose some scenes you can easily salvage if you have a replacement character. If you opt not to replace him and decide to cut him out altogether, you will end up cutting all of the scenes that has Darth Maul in them as a consequence, since most of the time, and in some vital points of the story, they appear together. You would end up with a movie where a sith appears out of nowhere, kills a jedi than just dies. Because most of the backstory scenes has Sidious in them. And after Yoda says there is always two, it would take 2 more movies for the other to appear and it is at the very ending.) Now, you can’t replace him with any other character who is not sith and if you replace him with a new character, whatever character you replace him with has to appear in the other movies for continuity and will need to properly die since that character wont appear in the original trilogy. That would mean editing many scenes along with adding some new scenes, which would be a pain in the ass. (I am probably explaining what I have in mind really poorly, but I hope you understand what I mean)
Rather than try to edit Sidious out of the scenes or to replace him with another character if you simply blacked out the face under the hood and changed the voice then you could imply any character was the bad guy appearing with darth maul.
Imagine if that’s how it had been done and you were watching the movie for the first time (with no prior knowledge of the films) then seeing a character hidden in that way you would naturally try to work out who it was (out of the other characters that you have seen in the movie). Now if you added Dooku as part of the jedi council, then had him appear at Qui Gon’s funeral, and later add a shot of him finding Maul’s body, this would cast a lot of suspicion on his character.
Only then when we get to episode two would we have access to a scene where the Jedi discuss Dooku having left the jedi order, and Dooku explains he was Qui Gon’s master. If we then changed his lightsaber from anything other than red, green, or blue and avoided scenes with him and Sidious together, then across the two films this would add a lot of background to Dooku as well as make him seem like the main suspect for being Sidious so it would appear as if he had been a much bigger part of the movies, without having to try to edit him into all the scenes to directly replace Sidious under the hood.
I’m loving the idea of the Greveious hologram and think your work looks fantastic. The only suggestion I would make is could you add a slight flicker to it. Kinda like the holograms have in the original trilogy just to make it look a little less clean?
Someone once did a clip where Mace Windu was the pilot who destroyed the droid control ship in TPM and the clip worked brilliantly and solved the issue of Anakin being in the battle at all. This would be my preferred idea too as it uses footage of Samuel Jackson from a documentary so would also help to mix things up and have a theme which was never touched upon in the original movie.
I've always wanted to see an edit of the films which makes Dooku's sabers white in order to show him as neither sith nor jedi so whilst I liked Ahsoka's previous lightsabers, I am fine with them being white. However I agree with Smithers that once thickened you risk them looking a little iffy. Perhaps do not change them and have hers left thinner in order to further emphasise the difference?
I really wish I could remember who it was because I thought it was a great suggestion and it definitely was not mine (though i may have tweaked it in my memory - hopefully someone will recognise it), but the idea was as follows.
Move the arena battle to the start and have anakin and padme already be a couple. I played around with a few clips some time ago (though never shared them as the quality was terrible), but I used a deleted scene where padme and anakin negotiate for obi wan's release along with padme's ship landing on geonosis. Then cutting these in with shots of obi wan sneaking around the droid factory, all in an attempt to make it seem like obi wan and padme were trying to rescue anakin who had been captured by dooku.
This then played through to the creatures attack in the arena and the three heroes escaping on the large one (reek I think). Then in my mind the rest would play out with obi wan researching dooku who simply left the jedi order, the assassination attempt on padme, the Republic building an army but with a suggestion that dooku interfered, and obi wan's missing planet being removed to leave a final showdown between droids and clones on the big battle at the end.
In my ideal version dooku would be a rogue and anakin would have visions which suggest there is a dark jedi threat which nobody has details of (actually anakin), with a possible addition of a scene showing palpatine using force lightning to help corrupt anakin.
On the one hand, the more you include the better. I have spent ages trying to edit together a few new lines for the OT and ended up with something far less than perfect.
On the other hand, I can't wait for this to be finished so the sooner the better. But even if you had a mostly organised and then a random other sounds file for all the pieces you aren't sure about including, something which you see no real use for could inspire someone to do something random so I say include everything you have. We will all just have to be patient a little longer.
I think in my most ideally imagined edit, Yoda would be replaced by Dooku as a jedi in TPM, and then Yoda would just be cut from AotC and RotS, with most of his role being filled by Mace and possibly another jedi. As for having Yoda be built up until ESB without shedding any light on it, I would rather he only be referred to twice at most, a passing comment from Obi Wan that Yoda trained him, then maybe another comment by someone suggesting Yoda was the greatest Jedi but is no longer with them. This could even be interpretted as Yoda being dead, so the audience wouldn't be waiting for him to pop up, and would add to the excitement to see him in ESB.
Rather than imagine replacing Yoda with another small character wouldn't it be easier to replace him with a character witha large silhouette. For example a different small character could involve masking Yoda out, then replacing the background and adding the new character in. Or just carefully matching the head angles and masking and replacing just the head (and recolouring the hands or something). Whereas if you had a human sized character with a wide cape you could just cover over Yoda in most of his scenes. This might involve rescaling certain shots and backgrounds do to the height change, but overall I think it would be less work.
I have been thinking about this some more and I agree that the promotional material showing Yoda shouldn't be considered a good reason for the surprise not being for the audience. Look at the posters for The Two Towers. Gandalf was plastered across them, and it did spoil a surprise for people who didn't know the story. I would say that is much less the case with the Yoda example from ESB. Furthermore, I think the surprise with Yoda is twofold. Firstly that the little green guy is Yoda, and secondly when he lifts the X-Wing from the swamp. Up to that point neither the audience or Luke has seen the force used to lift something so big. Which is why personally, I think not only should Yoda's appearance be kept secret until ESB, but also before that we should only see large creatures use the force, and not to do anything on par with lifting the X-Wing. It spoils the scene in ESB the same way that Dooku using sith lightning spoils the scene in RotJ.
Ryan McAvoy said:
^ Not beyond the realms of possibility. Stars do funny skits, voiceovers and whatnot sometimes. They get bored and fancy a giggle like the rest of us. A-listers work for free sometimes just because they want to be involved in something. Not sure that Neeson would want to revisit SW (He nearly quit acting he hated TPM so much) but I could see Sam Jackson being up for PT:Revisted.
He does movies all the time for lower pay just for fun. He did Snakes On a Plane for the hell of it and did Deep Blue Sea just so he could die. He's a big Star Wars geek like the rest of us so it might be worth posting him a copy of OT:Revisted. You'd have to work round his schedule to make it super easy.
You could do alot of fixing with him onboard to film scenes.
Also Ewan strikes me as the sort of bloke who'd do something like Revisted just for the story to tell.
Neeson did do a little voice work for the Clone Wars series so he doesn't seem entirely anti Star Wars, though it really was only a joke when I suggested it. I do agree with your comments about Sam Jackson and Ewan though. Most of the speculation about an Obi Wan spin off film is due to Ewan's comments expressing he wants to do one.
Thanks for the reply Ady. I think even though Yoda's act is for Luke, it remains a nice little surprise for the audience the first time it you see it. Though as this won't be the first time I see it, I'm still confident I will enjoy your edits even with Yoda.
I think its a little harsh to call him desperate, I think he's bloody brilliant. Though you are probably right, it falls well inside the realm of 'long shot'. This is why Ady could probably come up with a far better way to remove Yoda from the prequels.