Jedi Temple34

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skyjedi2005 said:

It would help to destinguish which 70mm mix you mean because according to imdb there was a 70mm 6 track dts of the special edition.  Probably only seen in like 2 theaters though,lol.

I do know it was shown i believe at the Royal Premiere in London England.

And at the US premiere.  It was not at Grauman's Chinese.

Can't remember the name of the theater its the place they had the premiere for return of the jedi in 1983.

According to the In-70mm site  

“Opened Dec 26, 1977:

UNITED KINGDOM

London: Dominion

London: Odeon Leicester Square”        

http://www.in70mm.com/news/2003/star_wars/chapters/openings.htm

70mm Blow Up (1977)

http://www.in70mm.com/library/blow_up/year/1977.htm

I see, I see, that would explain. I did read the first page second page and third pages of the thread.

The LFE.1 on 70mm mag would be limited to frequency response at the time. Dolby SR-D specification improved dynamic range and frequency response in the 90's (or was it CDS that did it first) :D the lowest audible tone would only felt, not heard.

Guess what I tried the download and the FLV opens up and sod all happens! sigh

No I’d sooner have DVD that works I have short tolerance for downloading LOL I mean I waited 21 minutes!

The LFE.1 “baby boom” would only come on as and when the mixers wanted it to

Same goes with the monaural surround and basically STAR WARS is 4.1 mix since its playing the same signal twice on the subwoofer track.

4.2 would be possible on DVD and it would be a first time event!

Re-plugging would be simple on my end to play the baby boom over the inner left/right fronts as an experiment.

I have five matching modified for (B-chain) JBL control 5 monitors or Jedi Blaster Lightsaber loudspeakers x12 JBL control 1 surrounds and single diy JBL 4645 18” sub bass.

Mix the LCR as normal on DVD

Mix the monaural surround onto the LFE.1 in full spectrum 

Mix the baby boom onto the surrounds

I can re-plug the JBL sound system in matter of minutes.

 "Here they come”!

The door hissing sound! Now does this version have no hissing sound as the stormtroopers lift the door up manually. On the PAL laserdisc the door doesn’t make any hissing sound because the controls have been blastered on the opposite side.

hairy_hen said:

I've double-checked once again just to be sure everything sounds the way it should, and I'm pleased to report that the 5.1 mix is now entirely finished and ready for general use.  Here are the download links from Satanika--an AC3 of 448 kbps split into two RAR files.  It should be all set to mux with any GOUT-derived video, whether you use the video as is or with your choice of AviSynth script processing.

Part 1: http://www.sendspace.com/file/qq11vb

Part 2: http://www.sendspace.com/file/jd98ys

If any of the links for this or the stereo version expire, just let me know and I'll be happy to re-upload them.  I've also updated the first post to include the download links for both so they'll be easy to find.

With two different versions of the soundtrack, there may be some potential confusion about differences between them and which one would best serve a particular type of audio setup.  I'll try to make that clear here.

The original 70mm mix featured discrete channels in what we would now probably call a 4.2 layout, with three front screen channels, a mono surround channel driving an array of speakers in the sides and back, and two channels exclusively reserved for low frequency effects, driving whatever speakers or subwoofers a particular theatre was equipped with.  The laserdisc mixes from which this recreation is derived are in a matrixed stereo format, with the four main channels folded down into two, encoded in such a way that it can be expanded or "upmixed" back into surround.  Note however that this upmixing cannot fully separate the channels from each other, and a certain amount of crosstalk between them will exist regardless of what algorithm is used.  The original discrete channel format cannot be fully recovered without an actual transfer from the source, only approximated.

Such upmixing is normally carried out by the receiver during playback, and the stereo version heard this way will deliver excellent results.  The bass content, however, will be limited to what is present in the laserdisc mix (which is not insignificant).  The 5.1 version was made in order to allow use of the LFE channel, since this was an important part of the 70mm theatrical experience.  The upmixing took place in software, with the ATSurround plugin of Foobar 2000 I believe (correct me if I misremembered that), and the LFE channel added in afterwards.  The surround experience is very similar to the results from Prologic II, and the added bass gives considerable impact to explosions and spaceship flybys, as well as some more subtle low end.  Surround effects emanate equally from both rear speakers, with additional rear stereo ambience derived from the mains.

Which one you should use depends what kind of sound system is being used.  I'll give some general guidelines:

If you are listening via 2-channel analog connection, be it the headphone jack of a computer or the stereo out of a dvd player, choose the stereo mix.  This applies regardless of whether you are using your tv speakers or large floorstanding tower speakers, and whether you have a surround setup or not.

If you have a 5.1 setup, and are bitstreaming the AC3 signal to a Dolby Digital decoder using a digital connection, or are using a multi-channel analog connection, you should definitely choose the 5.1 version.

If you use a digital connection but do not have a full 5.1 system, you should most likely choose the stereo version.  Use your choice of upmixing algorithms in your receiver to match the signal to your speaker layout if you wish.

If you have a subwoofer but less than five speakers, you may achieve acceptable results from using the 5.1 mix, but be aware that by downmixing a file that has already been upmixed from stereo, the quality of sound from the main channels will most likely be inferior to what you will hear from the stereo mix, due to phase artefacts and channel crosstalk.  Were the original discrete mix available, it could be downmixed without any significant problems, but that is not the case with this version.

(If you really want to, you could encode your own AC3 in 2.1 layout using the stereo and LFE tracks I've provided, but know going in that the playback of such a format is erratic, depending entirely on the equipment used.  My own Onkyo receiver discards the LFE channel when using Prologic II, retaining it only in stereo and DTS Neo:6 modes.  A high-end Denon receiver at a hifi home theatre store was completely incapable of using the LFE channel at all, regardless of what listening mode was used; a similarly priced Yamaha successfully used the LFE while automatically engaging THX Surround Decode, and worked in stereo as well.  I make no guarantees about going this route.)

I don't know what the surround effect of this mix is like on a 6.1 or 7.1 system, through Prologic IIx or similar algorithms.  Ideally the rear channel effects would be spread equally among all the back speakers, to simulate the monaural surround of the original, rather than being relegated to the center back speakers only, but I can't say one way or the other, having never heard it this way.

Anyway, I've gone on a bit, but hopefully these guidelines will be helpful in creating an ideal listening experience for the film.  I really hope everyone who obtains this mix will be pleased with it, and I'm very interested in hearing any opinions and feedback you might have.  Have to say I'm rather relieved at finally being finished with this--hopefully now I can just watch the film without worrying too much about the sound not being quite what I want it to be!  However close this comes to simulating the real 70mm mix, if I've improved the available sonic experience of the film for anyone, through the sound itself or from providing a look back into the film's history, then I've done what I set out to do.

Hairy_hen

Fair play to you what qualifications do you have in this venture into creating the so called original 1977 70mm DOLBY STEREO release?

I’ll have thee copies free please on DVD region1 or region0 please and I’ll give it my fullest DOLBY listening attention!  

I came across this on youtube it was kinder hidden and shows return of the Jedi being projected though the port windows in the booth.

Cinerama Projection Booth Uptown Theater Washington DC “Return of the Jedi”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gQVpOFAf-s

I would say not its not the version I heard in the cinema 1983. Get the early laserdisc edition in fact all the early editions, plenty of them on fleabay.

Adywan, Brilliant  done the colours look correct. I can’t stand those who mess with the colour balance at the studios tinting colours to make sky look like crap like purple or another other than blue.

I think there is something odd about Star Trek the motion picture original (1979)

Time (00:39:05) Scotty on the intercom right front with (echo and partly on the surrounds) now there’s something fishy going on here!

The laserdisc or early versions Dolby stereo have a dry like sound to the voice a natural sound.

Time (01:07:41) Missing (sound effect) right front when, Sulu programs the new course heading the sound of the button is missing! This is soft sound on the HF yeah, not bad for someone that’s 42 at the time to spot this. Sigh

I don’t think, Star Trek the motion picture was, mixed with stereo surrounds in mind, but is on this version and it sounds out of place from most other discrete six-track Dolby stereo mixes.

Still its miles better than that, rushed Dolby mix director’s cut that more than a few Foley effects missing.

Fang Zei

I don’t see why they should be able to hold all three! Most Bluray titles have 6 or 7 different language tracks.

Return of the Jedi (THX laserdisc and THX DVD) had some of the original dialogue panning re-mixed centred. It’s where the Princess meets the Ewok.

Left front pan -“Well looks like I’m stuck here? Trouble is I don’t know were here is?”

Also the opening where an imperial officer says

Left front pan -“Inform the commander that Lord Vader’s shuttle as arrived”

Centre front -“Sir” 

Laserdisc edition (1478-85)  

You really need matching fronts LCR for this to perform flawlessly, and trained ear as some pans are hard and others are half pans placed between or mixed onto (left and centre or centre and right). The discrete mix will be different ball game in DolbyTrue six-track. 

Also in Star Wars A New Hope

-“here they come” when the door opens up without hissing sound because its been lifted its not under own power, because Luke shot the controls!

In the laserdisc and special and DVD there’s a (hissing) sound. 

I signed the petition.

I want the original Dolby stereo road show 70mm six-track magnetic originally restored to pristine condition and preserved on Bluray and DVD as it was exhibited to the lucky few that heard the true discrete version of the film back in 1977, 1980 and 1983.

I want that vintage Dolby taste in my hands.

Oh, and Fox please use DolbyTrue its just as good and keeps in the tradition of the Star Wars sound mix as these films were mixed in Dolby not dts.

Wow, that thread was like having vice attached to your nuts, and having the force applied at the same time!

Mielr said:

Jedi Temple34 said:
Well it’s been a while since, I was here last. I think 2 years?

Then don't be surprised when Jay (or someone else) asks you to delete your signature (we're not allowed to have animated ones anymore). ;-)

What? Okay I’ll remove personally I think it’s a bit &*(^)*^*()__ Yeah. So things have changed in two years.

I mean you can post images of the, princess be groped by a Wookie! lol

LOL I have better fish to fry than hanging around facebook or even twitter which I have given up with. No pun, I’d rather waste my time, here.

The asteroid slug creature scene in Empire CAV THX goes low down to 20Hz and below to 15Hz and it takes an insane sub to take the stick at that level. Or you can get away with some bass shakers stuck underneath your sofa and rattle, your teeth out! lol

I’m looking for the lowest and highest while modifying the parametric EQ while bumping up the AVR by +3db more I’m at the ceiling level on my AVR at the moment.

I use the parametric EQ Behernger BFQ2496 to force some extra low on the lower 20Hz to see how far it will stretch too. I’ve trimmed some of the common 30Hz to 40Hz and 50Hz down a bit, I have the bypass button if I want to divert back to normal readings.

I seem to recalling reading an article that the team at Skywalker sound was impressed with the new sound system that was installed. They heard lower lows on Empire that they didn’t hear on the original dubbing stage.

Empire does have some brutal low end grunt for 29 year old film. It’s really too bad I misplaced the article, I think I lost it while reading it at the beachside many years ago.

Yes my, lord we’ll find them.

Don’t fail me again, admiral.

Onto the forth side now!

Well you’ve seen an EQ before? This is like an extension of EQ it sees deeper down the spectrum, well blow our hearing where its mostly felt, if amplified at insane levels it would be heard, but it would painfully uncomfortable.

So in general you’re looking at the frequency response of what the films producing from the LCRS folded together as Dolby stereo mixes don’t have true sub bass discrete signal.

So I take you’ve seen Star Wars more times than you’ve had hot dinners?

The musical score opening is bit scattered apart on this CLV laserdisc. The CAV THX laserdisc is bit fuller wider in the lower register.

It’s easier if you had the program running on your pc. Its simple to load up and takes few minutes to set the parameters and its fairly effective.

The green is like soft level

The yellow getting a bit higher in level

The red getting hotter and louder

The pink too loud or represents the highest peak in the frequency.

Note the third graph the pink is the death stars low humming energy reactor sound, or what ever? The traces of colours below are the, star destroy. Its easier to turn the level up, and the, star destroy might produce some pink! Then the death star will sound too LOUD at 43Hz.

lol oh, please I don’t want to be reminded about that, I’ve had nightmares about it ever since.

 Thank you, it’s nice to be back after, I figuring out what the heck my password was, took me, 20 min, had to reboot for new password, sigh.

 Well have since been looking at Jedi on THX CAV, obviously it goes lower and higher up in the range. Presently looking at Empire THX CAV with few special modifications on the parametric EQ tocut a few peaks bump up the lower 20Hz a tiny bit, the waterfalls looking devastatingly low.  

Jedi reached down to below 15Hz thou very shy it was mostly (green) while it was hotter down to 30Hz which seemed to be the common limit while few tiny (yellow) spots came around 25Hz. That was the CLV version of the above laserdisc.

The CAV THX edition lower!

Empire is easily making 20Hz still waiting to see hot red or maybe some insane pink.  

Empire is still regarded as (best of the trilogy and the best sounding one) I’ve heard since Star Wars.

The Force is strong with Young Frankenstein lol

I think it’s only just a few, handful of British actors that give creditable performances. The rest of the cast is just wooden cardboard cut-outs.

No the prequels are far from saving. It’s not worth throwing them a lifeline, just let them sick because they stick. lol

Impressive laserdisc screen captures and enhancement. I own CAV THX and several regular editions NTSC and one rare PAL edition.

I assume your keeping the grain structure of that is inherent on 35mm to video as many have moaned about too soft and that film has grain and grittiness.

Well it’s been a while since, I was here last. I think 2 years?

These are frequency waterfalls showing the strength of the Star Wars films. Regrettably I only have few of the originals on laserdisc. The DVD doesn’t really count I guess, unless one of you request a waterfall from a specific moment from the film.

I’ve taken liberty of doing Return of the Jedi. The laserdisc is early 1990 edition widescreen with digital PCM and analogue track.

Thou its not practical to do the whole film as it would take me, many hours to edit the size of the waterfalls and upload them and so and so on.

So a few short moments will suffice I think…unless of course of get the strength to do the whole film as it would make for some interesting fact.

The lows have been taken off my AVR Kenwood KRF-X9050D THX select sub bass output. AVR is set at 0db plus I’ve just boasted the sub bass gain by +10db to sparkle it up a little bit.

I’ve stopped the laserdisc at 5m 16s to get some feedback. Well I’ve placed a (memory repeat) at (5m 16s).

The waterfalls again show the strength of Jedi Knight, no I’m lying, they just show the strength of the signal.

 The soft green is low strength the yellow is mild red high pink very high. Not Jedi has a few pink spots in these few graphs. The software I’m using is called Specturmlab that was designed for radio amateurs. Its also found use in recording sub bass or LFE.1 and so on.

20^th Century Fox Fanfare introduction  

John Williams Star Wars theme opening

Star destroy thunders with wide range while other effects are Death Star interior and shuttle craft dropping off Darth Vader some parts are musical score as well.

The ramp lowers on the shuttle Vader steps off the platform. It ends at the top where part of it is score, it than cuts to Tatooine where I stop the laserdisc.