JayArgonaut

Yeah, the usage of Doomsday - and the manner of the usage was inexcusably lazy writing. Felt like they ran out of ideas and thought, let’s go for a King Kong esque finale with a suitably big monster that tries to grab aerial vehicles.

They criminally squandered the entire premise of the film in that the two titular characters only clash for 10 minutes tops in a film that lasts 2 and a half hours. Unless some of it was cut for the PG-13 rating. Plus, was it necessary to yet again depict Bruce Wayne’s parents being murdered?

On the subject of pacing, the scene-to-scene transitions and editing, this review touches on why it makes sense (to me) that Snyder has a longer running time prepared for the home video releases:

http://dailyfreepress.com/2016/03/25/batman-superman-dawn-justic-movie-review/

"Further, there are so many noticeable pieces missing that the story’s pacing is wildly inconsistent. That can be partially attributed to the overstuffed nature of the story, dealing with an insane amount of characters, plot lines and obligatory setup for future films all at once. The film either needs to go all in with everything it wants to do, accepting a significantly longer runtime, or completely scrap all of the subplots and setups it ineptly attempts in its current state.

The incomprehensible middle ground it settles for makes “Batman v Superman” one of the most poorly edited movies in recent memory. Too often does the film cut to a new scene without any proper introduction, creating some baffling scenarios where the viewer will wonder whether or not they have just passed out, because surely they must have missed something."

Despite my quibbles with BvS, I think the RT’s critics rating of 30% is undeserved. I’ve seen far worse films receive much higher scores.

http://rottentomatoes.com/m/batman_v_superman_dawn_of_justice/

As with Suspiciouscoffee, I didn’t want to ruin anything for people who haven’t seen BvS yet and are considering doing so. Those who’ve seen it and want to discuss their reactions can do so here. 😃

BvS is probably the first film in many years that I’ve gone to see on the day of the release. Whilst it was definitely watchable and enjoyable, the potential for a truly great film (especially considering the material and the director) was wasted.

The writing was really sloppy and unfocused in places. You’re never made to fully understand Luthor’s motivations and the ending was a big, messy letdown. The battle and tension between Batman and Superman was nowhere near the intensity that’s suggested by the misleading nature of the trailers - and there’s a couple of scenes that were used in the trailers but annoyingly have no payoff in the film, much like with the Mandarin in Iron Man 3.

Superman’s death came across as unnecessary and it lacked emotional impact, it felt like a cheap stunt and the closing moments already undo any attempted commentary on heroic self-sacrifice because of the strongly implied immediate resurrection.

On the plus side, everyone gave good performances, even Affleck - who whilst I’ve never jumped on the bandwagon of labelling as a terrible actor, at the same time has never particularly impressed me over the years. Most of the action sequences (excluding the finale) were brilliant and I liked Snyder’s visual style - especially the televisual sequences. With stronger direction, more work on the script and better pacing of the action sequences (I was fine with the film’s length), this could’ve been really stellar.

As I’ve stated in another thread, I’m looking forward to seeing what Snyder offers for the uncensored, extended home version, even though as S.C. has predicted, it might not remedy the atrocious ending.

How about the rest of you that have seen it?

Batman vs Superman: DOJ.

Enjoyable but had the potential for real greatness.

suspiciouscoffee said:

BATMAN v SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE is pretty good… until the end. Snyder has actually just about redeemed himself IMO from characterization mistakes with Superman, and this new version seems to have grown into the role pretty well. This is perhaps the best Batman to ever appear on screen; very true to the comics. Wonder Woman is great, but underused.

Jesse Eisenberg plays a weird Joker/Riddler type character that is called Lex Luthor. This is a horrible mistake, the character is nothing like in the comics. He’s twitchy and psychotic, rather than cold and sociopathic. It’s a good character, but it’s the wrong character.

The ending just about ruins it all. It’s dramatic, and it’s emotional, but it doesn’t feel earned. The fact that Doomsday looks as fake as he did in that one trailer doesn’t help. The ending seems to try to adapt (or cram) a certain comic story arc (that I won’t spoil here) into just a few minutes, and it doesn’t feel earned. I wish that story was left for later in this movieverse; especially since the next film will likely undo it immediately.

Weird choices were made that hurt the movie, but I don’t hate it like many of the critics seem to.

C+

Thanks for the write up. On the basis of your feedback, I’m going to watch it in a few hours at my local cheapo cinema. It’s worth remembering that the first Star Wars film received a number of bad reviews back in 1977 and that apparently, Pauline Kael hated TESB. Citizen Kane was effectively dismissed by the Academy…

You might be interested in this:

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/02/23/batman-v-superman-r-rated-home-video

http://filmratings.com/search.html?filmTitle=batman+v+superman&x=0&y=0

Perhaps the extended, R-rated home version will address some areas that left you dissatisfied.

“JEDIT”

Ok… Just come home from the cinema and I’m glad I that caught the early morning screening: when I was leaving, I saw the crowds waiting for afternoon showing and they were huge.

Totally agree with you about the ending and thank you for not spoiling it for those who haven’t seen DOJ yet. I’ll do the same. Definitely enjoyable but disappointingly doesn’t quite reach its potential - some of the writing is messy, particularly regarding Luthor’s motives and there’s several elements that really deserved to be fleshed out more. The rivalry and battle between Superman and Batman isn’t the epic contest that the trailers lead you to expect and the trailer also misleads you about a few other things that leave you feeling cheated.

Nonetheless, on the whole, I did enjoy it, despite the reservations. I’m going to wait for the R-rated version to arrive in a few months. I’d like to see what Snyder excised for the PG-13 release and to see how much of a difference they make. Also, how many more Batman related films is Senator Pat Leahy going to receive cameos in? 😃

marioxb said:

Well that’s pretty awesome (but not about the credits), don’t think a lot of us USA folk knew that. I will have to check the Netflix version. Been meaning to get a new Netflix account anyway. If everthing is good, someone can capture the ending off of Netflix and upscale it to match your recording. Are there any commercials or other edits you know of on this TV version?

IMDB’s message board for Explorers is a really good resource and definitely worth checking out imho.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089114/board/?ref_=tt_bd_sm

Beyond that, I can’t really think of anything to add, except a couple of observations. The opening moments contain the Gulf & Western logo at the beginning - which means Paramount haven’t bothered to update it with the newer version, as they’ve done with other films in their catalogue over the years, like The Godfather stuff.

Also, the HDTV broadcast looks really good. Much better than the atrocious Hi-Def airings of Death Becomes Her or The Quiet American, for example. This is the best that I’ve ever seen Explorers presented over the years and maybe the best that can be expected, given its history. There’s certainly noticeable flecks and dirt here and there but that also leads me to conclude that it looks like Paramount haven’t bothered to apply any DVNR mutilation and merely performed a straight transfer. The studio’s disdain for the film is actually a blessing in disguise here.

Let me know what you find on the Netflix version.

SilverWook said:

Paramount has been pretty bad with their back catalog as of late. They actually licensed a bunch of films to Warner, which might explain why the Naked Gun films and others have appeared on Blu Ray without any of the DVD bonus features. Team America is another bare bones offender.

On that note, you might be interested in this. It was issued in 2013, apparently. Strange that Paramount have licensed it to Warner when their own 2004 DVD release is widely available. Yet it’s no longer for sale at the WB shop though and there’s no listing for Explorers on the Paramount Home Video site either.

SilverWook said:
When I’m done with my taxes, I might try and get the Japanese Laserdisc. If it’s the theatrical, the digital audio would be useful?

Quite possibly if the credits sequence from the Netflix version is also the theatrical. Perhaps the two could be synced and then edited into my recording to replace the time compressed/butchered portion?

SilverWook said:
And I totally don’t recall Wak’s closing gag being different. It has been thirty years though. 😉

I didn’t even catch it during the theatrical run but then that’s always been crux of Explorers’ misfortune: not enough people did… 😦

Thanks, I’m tempted to go and see it, so I look forward to your assessment.

marioxb said:
So it would appear that the version you recorded is 99% the US theatrical cut (minus the credits).

The “US theatrical cut” was also the worldwide theatrical cut and Paramount used this for the 80s UK home video version.

Meanwhile the Paramount DVD is a widescreen edition of the re-edited “Special Home Version” that was released in the US on LD, VHS and Beta during the 80s.

I’ve just checked the credits sequence for you and it’s worse than I previously described. The stand up sketch has been time compressed down to a couple of seconds - and even that is indecipherable because the continuity announcer talks over it. Really annoying but that’s free-to-air broadcast TV for you.

Possessed said:

So when people say that he’s supposed to look older than typical batman in this story, is that just nonsense do you? Is the concept of people who are older looking older just lost on you? Are you a goldfish?

Yeah. One of the trailers even highlights that with Affleck’s Wayne lamenting that he’s getting too old for these kinds of adventures and Jeremy Irons’ Alfred quipping that even Wayne has grown too old to die young, “not for lack of trying.”

Q: has anyone on here seen the film yet, or is planning to? According to Business Insider and The WSJ, there’s been a number of bad reviews so I’m curious about OT opinions.

Asaki said:

It’s kind of hard to define a “theatrical cut” of this film though, since there was more than one cut, wasn’t there?

What I really want is a director’s cut…but I’m not sure if that will ever happen =(

Just to clarify, the version I had on tape (not sure if it was HBO, may have been Showtime) included the scene of the tilt-a-whirl part rolling down the hill, and also the dream scene near the end where the Thunder Road shows up in Ben’s classroom. It did not have the scene of Ben and Wolfgang walking to school.

The one you refer to is the master that Paramount used for the US home video versions (LD, Beta, VHS etc) and is the standard version on DVD. The 80s UK home video release is the same as the theatrical cut, with the scene of Wolfgang and Ben towards the beginning. I recorded this version in HD (1080) from Channel 4 during Xmas 2015. The closing credits featuring Robert Picado’s stand up routine have been time-compressed and cut down.

It appears that the footage has been lost and even a director’s cut wouldn’t have been enough because the film was unfinished - and not in the George Lucas sense of “forever unfinished in my mind.” There’s been talk of a reboot… Dante wasn’t even invited to participate with the DVD release and claims the Paramount execs said he was lucky they were even going to make it available on a modern format. Explains why there’s been no Blu-Ray.

stretch009 said:

I’d only be interested if there was also some way to obtain the International cuts of the good Superman movies. (I-III)

There is no international cut of Superman III. The Salkinds provided an extended version that was sold to TV networks and broadcast by ABC and ITV during the mid to late 80s. The theatrical and home video releases were all the same length.

SilverWook said:

The Pete Smith shorts air on Turner Classic Movies regularly.

Ok. Part of the legacy of Ted Turner’s raiding of MGM’s back catalogue?

Got some more to add. Some of this list I compiled after recalling films and TV programmes from the past that I enjoyed but haven’t seen in years and sadly in some cases, may never get to watch again. No wonder Bob Monkhouse recorded TV broadcasts so religiously…

Glory and Honor (1998) - Kevin Hooks directed TNT biopic starring Delroy Lindo and Henry Czerny as Matthew Henson and Robert Peary, it charts their rocky friendship over 20 years during their historic quest to reach the North Pole.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glory_%26_Honor

Was originally broadcast on TNT and I’ve seen it appear on UK TV a couple of times but despite winning several awards, home video availability is limited to a 90s Warner VHS issuing.

The CBS/Universal co-produced police drama, “The District” that ran from 2000 to 2004. It was nominated for 14 awards and continues to be shown internationally but there has never been any home video release, ever.

Valerie/Valerie’s Family/The Hogan Show 80s-90s Lorimar co-produced sitcom drama, originally starring Valerie Harper in the lead role. I used to watch this during the late 80s when the BBC had the rights for a while. If the story is correct, TV executives who co-own the rights are blocking a DVD release because of animosity towards Harper, who (has inoperable brain cancer!) would benefit financially from the sales.

Major Dad - Universal produced sitcom that racked up several awards and nominations during a four season run but there’s no DVD release.

South Central - satirical drama featuring Larenz Tate that was cancelled by Fox (along with an entire block of other programming) after the first season aired. I haven’t seen this since the original 1994 broadcast and it’s unavailable on home video.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Central_(TV_series)

The Bronx Zoo - late 80s drama centring around the staff and students of an unruly school that ran for two seasons. Features a lot of already well established actors and newcomers who went on to become stars, such as Cuba Gooding Jr. Again, I’ve not seen this rebroadcast since the original 80s UK airing and the best offerings are dark, muddy VHS TV-rips.

Nurses - 3 season spin-off from Empty Nest that originally aired on NBC in the US and Channel 4 in the UK (for which the cast recorded specific TV promos). No home video release, of any kind.

My World and Welcome to It - award winning, late 60s US sitcom starring William Windom that was based on the work of James Thurber. Totally ahead of its time and as such, despite the acclaim, it was cancelled by NBC after one season. Never been issued on home video but 16mm prints exist, apparently.

Pete Smith Specialties - a series of more than 150 short films, produced and narrated by Pete Smith that landed him over a dozen nominations and several awards. No DVD release, or anything else - as far as I can ascertain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Smith_(film_producer)#Pete_Smith_Specialties

This is shaping up to be a great resource.

Yet another interesting list: http://hanna-barbera.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Cartoons_not_yet_on_DVD

A few more…

Coast to Coast (1987) - a road movie comedy co-produced by the BBC with John Shea and Lenny Henry in the lead roles. Hugely popular but it has never received further airings or a home video release of any kind, ever. The production company and Lenny Henry have confirmed that this situation will probably never change as the extensive usage of Motown songs for the soundtrack would cost the BBC hundreds of thousands in re-licencing fees.

Seasons 3 to 6 of Judging Amy. The first two seasons are available on DVD but with the soundtrack altered due to licensing issues. Lead actress, Amy Brenneman has attributed the lack of a complete release to intransigence between the drama’s co-producers, Fox and CBS.

Muppet Babies - I haven’t been able to watch this since the mid 80s when the BBC had the rights. Even on VHS, it had a patchy release history. Again, licensing issues are an obstacle to any DVD/Blu-Ray release because of the sheer volume of the film clips that were used during each episode. However surely an organisation such as Disney has the resources to get this resolved? Especially now that they own Lucasfilm.

Doublecrossed (1991) - HBO biopic starring Dennis Hopper as Barry Seal, a drug/gun runner, turned DEA informant and undercover operative. Available on VHS and LD but nothing since.

The uncut (not the NC-17) version of Ken Russell’s “Whore” (aka “If You Can’t Say It, Just See It”) has only ever been issued on NTSC VHS.

slumberdore said:

Another interesting list here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/KeepCirculatingTheTapes/Film

A very interesting list. Quite a few of the entries have been shown on British TV. I specifically remember watching Looking for Mr Goodbar at one point.

Some more contenders…

The extended (by 7 minutes) version of Colors has never been made available beyond the LD and VHS releases.

(Slightly) extended version of Blue Thunder: some of the P&S VHS/LD releases contain additional footage during the car chase sequence. All of the subsequent home video versions, including the Blu-Ray are taken from the theatrical release. This alternate version has turned up on TV in the past.

The expanded edition of Lawrence Kasdan’s Wyatt Earp was issued on NTSC LD and VHS but nothing else since.

Ridley Scott provided an audio commentary track for the LD of G.I. Jane but it has been omitted from the subsequent DVD and Blu-Ray.

The steamier version of The Carpetbaggers, which was renowned for its (at the time) fairly adult scenes is apparently unavailable on DVD, or even LD. It appears that Paramount have erroneously used a censored master.

Men Don’t Tell - Golden Globe nominated drama starring Peter Strauss, originally aired on CBS and based on the true story of a battered husband. It’s been shown on Lifetime and other channels but there has never been a home video release or (in the US) further over-the-air broadcasts, allegedly due to ire from a number of women’s groups towards the storyline.

Nicholas Meyer produced a widescreen, director’s cut of The Day After - featuring an audio commentary track. It was released on a special edition LD but hasn’t been repackaged for DVD/Blu-Ray.

Wazzles said:

The Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition 😃

That should’ve been the first example cited. 😃

Maybe this thread should be made into a sticky because of the obvious value as a reference point.

Interesting list here: http://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/films-dvd/

Let’s see…

The chronologically re-edited versions of The Godfather films (Epic & Trilogy).

None Shall Escape - an Oscar nominee that was released in 1944 and is one of the first films to explore the topic of Nazi atrocities. It’s been shown on TCM and regularly on Film4 and the latter airing contains the post-2004 S.P.H.E logo at the end, which indicates that Sony has supplied it in recent years (meaning it’s something they’ve looked at and it’s ready to go onto DVD/Blu-Ray) but there’s no legal home video release of any kind.

Dancing in the Street (known in the US as “WGBH” Rock & Roll), a fantastic PBS/WGBH and BBC production that charts the history of Rock & Roll, right up to House and Hip-Hop. It will probably never receive a re-release on any modern video format because of the negotiations and royalties involved for re-licensing the music that was used.

Seasons 3 to 6 of HBO’s Dream On. They had UK VHS releases but don’t appear to be listed anywhere. The entire run was also shown on British TV during the earlier 2000s but only the first two seasons have made it onto DVD.

Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Special Longer Version). Robert Wise’s director’s edition from 2001 is different from the SLV that was available on VHS, Beta, LD, VHD and even VideoCD and used for network television broadcasts but never surfaced on DVD. Wise loathed it, along with the theatrical release so he was probably glad.

Gore Vidal’s Billy the Kid - can be found on VHS and LD but no there’s no DVD, let alone Blu-Ray and the version shown on UK TV is cut to ribbons.

Zooman (1995), caught it once on TV but the only home video release appears to be VHS.

Split Image (1982), has popped up on TV in the past and was released on VHS and CED but nothing since.

Brothers (1977) - a thinly disguised biopic of “Soledad Brother”, George Jackson. Again, popped up on TV a couple of times and was released on VHS but nothing since.

Hors La Vie - managed to (luckily) catch this once on British TV in the 90s. Despite being highly acclaimed and often shown in recent years at film festivals around the world, along with the announcement in 2013 of a complete box set of Maroun Bagdadi’s work, there is strangely no DVD/Blu-Ray release.

The theatrical release of Explorers, distinguished by an early scene featuring the lead characters walking to school (and is included on the re-edited DVD as a deleted scene) has received an HDTV airing in recent years but nothing on home video beyond the 80s UK copies.

Ron Howard’s director’s cut of Ransom was issued on LD but hasn’t made it onto DVD or Blu-Ray.

Here’s more…

Sorry for the delay! As promised, here’s some screencaps and I’ll share the rest of the equivalents that are shown here: http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Predator-Blu-ray/316/#Screenshots

This is definitely (and thankfully) from a different master than the one that was used on the UHE. To my eyes, it looks quite close to the MPEG-2 version but has considerably more grain and slightly more detail - although that could be down to how the MPEG-2 screencap was obtained.

Opinions?

nafroe said:

Would it be possible for you to post this one as well? From what I’ve seen, this is one of the gross appearances of wax face.

From the UHE:
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/predatornew03.jpg

From the MPEG-2:
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/predatorold03.jpg

No problem. I’ll get them up on here asap. In the meantime, just from looking at those particular stills and some on the Blu-Ray site against my recording, I can already confirm that it’s much closer to the MPEG-2 than the “waxworks” UHE but it’s brighter than either of them. It looks pretty grainy to me and there’s a number of scratches and flecks for that matter too.

You’ll be able to judge for yourselves soon enough.

Just to be sure, do you really prefer stills over a video sample?

digitalfreaknyc said:
I know nothing about DVB-S, unfortunately.
Like I said: these guys seem to be full of crap. Why would they be looking for a “proper” 1080i, considering their 720p had to be sourced from one.

Very likely because it’s someone else’s handiwork that they’re passing off as their own.

digitalfreaknyc said:
What are you blabbering about? Someone else can try to cap it in 1080i like I did but if their cable company re-encodes (like almost all do), it will look just like mine does

DFNYC, thanks for your efforts over the years and your attempt to capture this for us.

Maybe they did it using DVB-S?

marin888 said:

Can you make few screenshots comparison with BD MPEG-2 or just make same screenshots which is posted over http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Predator-Blu-ray/316/#Screenshots?

I’ll make the same screenshots as the ones posted at the blu-ray site.

I recorded an HDTV 1080p broadcast of this earlier tonight. If there’s any interest, I could upload a sample for people to check if it’s sourced from an alternate master…

timemeddler said:
anyone else still making good use of a dinosaur?

Yes, I have a “headless” P133 (non-MMX) with 32mb RAM and 500mb HDD that has been in constant use as a Smoothwall box.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/smoothwall/files/SmoothWall/3.1

RIP Abe Vigoda.

Wazzles said:

They’re also not worth nearly what they’re asking for them.

Agreed. I paid the equivalent of $2 USD for the ROTJ and TESB GOUT discs (from what would be called in the US, a thrift store) and even that was grudgingly because I’ve been happy with my CBS-FOX W/S LD’s.