JayArgonaut

litemakr said:

I’m not aware of any LD release beyond the 1992 version, I would have definitely bought it. I did get the letterboxed VHS released around 2003 because it said on the back that the effects were “newly enhanced”. Of course it was the same transfer with no enhancements. I think their marketing people got confused because Raiders WAS supposed to be re-released theatrically in a Special Edition and I believe some preliminary work was done. The rumor was that the submarine scene would be finished and added. However, they cancelled it when special editions fell out of favor with fans after the 2002 E.T. special edition.

Personally I would have loved to see an updated edition of Raiders with added deleted scenes and updated effects, as long as the original was also available.

I suppose the 2008 HDTV master with the CGI cliff scene, contains the remnants of what was supposed to have been the Special Edition.

Can you elaborate about the submarine scene please? What would it have entailed?

Ah, thanks for the clarification. Perhaps Paramount nixed it with a view to focusing on a future DVD release?

You are correct. Here’s the 1990 LBX S-VHS opening for Last Crusade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWhosaP1ZgU

@Lite: what’s your thoughts, if any, on the ROTLA 1999 LBX THX LD vs the 1992 release?

Thanks for your thorough reply, you’ve jogged my memory about a few releases over the years. 😃

TServo2049 said:

I think the fact that Manhattan was a less mass-consumption movie might have contributed (and I don’t believe it was fully letterboxed to 2.35:1 anyways?).

It almost certainly appears to have received the full OAR, judging by the opening to the 1984 Betamax release:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLXUy7XZPPA

TServo2049 said:

Spielberg was able to get a few of his/Amblin’s movies released in widescreen, even on VHS, though they were only 1.85:1 movies - first, Warner Bros. released The Color Purple, Empire of the Sun (on LD only, IIRC) and Joe Dante’s Innerspace exclusively in letterbox, then Universal used letterbox for E.T. (on LD only) and Always.

I’d completely forgotten about InnerSpace! It begins with a comparison of the night club sequence in P&S vs WS so that viewers understand that they’re gaining, not losing with the black bars. I really ought to have a go at preserving that at some point, unless other members have already done it. 😃

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y7YyTZCO8Q

TServo2049 said:

I believe the first 2.35:1 Spielberg movie released in widescreen on video was indeed Last Crusade, and even then he wasn’t able to convince Paramount to release a letterbox VHS (though it was LBX on S-VHS).

I don’t follow here, Paramount agreed to an S-VHS LBX but not a VHS LBX release? According to this interview, Spielberg states that Paramount were convinced to release Last Crusade in LBX on VHS alongside the P&S version.

http://www.rogerebert.com/interviews/spielberg-turns-letterboxing-into-crusade-with-new-tape

TServo2049 said:

I have no idea of the history of letterbox releases in Japan, but using LDDB’s dates, the next North American letterbox home video release of a scope film after Manhattan was the Criterion LD of The Hidden Fortress in 1987 (it has the earliest volume number of the three scope LBX CC releases that year, the other two in '87 were The Graduate and Blade Runner). In 1988, three non-Criterion scope LBX LDs came out - Ben-Hur and Doctor Zhivago from MGM, and Otto Preminger’s The Cardinal from Image. LBX in general, and scope LBX in particular, became a bigger thing in 1989 (Fox, Columbia, and more from MGM), and I believe all the studios were on board by 1990. (I have no idea what the next scope LBX VHS was after Manhattan - I do know there was a widescreen VHS of the 1989 restoration of Lawrence of Arabia, maybe it was that?)

Again, thanks for the information. The OT received an LBX Japanese LD release in 1986 that still remains highly regarded, all these decades on.

litemakr said:

The CAV should have slightly better picture quality, but I doubt there is a need to digitize both.

Here’s the opening to the 84’ CLV, they adjusted the credits for the constraints of P&S…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpCSFKF_9as

dvdmike said:

VHD or nothing

😃 The Raiders VHD can be briefly viewed in action here, Fast FWD to 26:19.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCWLaAwr3sM

litemakr said:
That was the only transfer of Raiders available until the 1992 WS LD. Does anyone have the first edition laserdisc? It might be worth preserving that version in the highest resolution available and LD would be better than the VHS. In fact a good preservation of the WS LD is a good idea. I have it, but not a good way to capture it.

I don’t remember Raiders ever being shown in WS on television until the 2003 DVD transfer. They used the pan and scan of the 1992 transfer.

Thanks. Curious that a film-maker of Spielberg’s clout was unable to get his work shown in WS on TV for so long whilst Allen succeeded years beforehand. Speaking of the Raiders '84 LD, there appears to have been two US releases, the CLV single disc and the double disc CAV. Would a preservation involve both for historical comparison?

Wazzles said:

JayArgonaut said:

CED was superior to VHS (which was never that difficult) but inferior to LD.

http://www.cedmagic.com/home/cedfaq.html#onetwelve

Only in terms of quality, since the discs could only be used so many times before they were useless.

RCA gave the discs a life expectancy for optimum performance of 500 plays. Most VHS tapes would be in pretty poor shape by that stage. 😄

http://www.cedmagic.com/home/cedfaq.html#threetwelve

alexp120 said:

…and the majority of the films are presented in full screen/pan and scan.

Edit:
As a previous collectior of the CED format, I can testify that this edition of Raiders was in pan and scan.

As were 99% of home video releases across all formats during that era. The only films I remember watching at home in widescreen during the 80s were the TV broadcasts of Manhattan (because of Allen’s insistence) and 2001.

Out of curiosity, was Raiders ever shown in 2.35:1 by pay movie channels in the US during the 80s/90s?

Edit: interesting article from 1990 on Spielberg’s fight to get his films shown in their OAR on home video.

http://www.rogerebert.com/interviews/spielberg-turns-letterboxing-into-crusade-with-new-tape

CED was superior to VHS (which was never that difficult) but inferior to LD.

http://www.cedmagic.com/home/cedfaq.html#onetwelve

Jetrell Fo said:

Have any of you downloaded these? I got a member over at the spleen saying the aspect ratio is off but he or she is using the screen shots vs. media info of the file to say so. I don’t even know that he or she has watched it yet and they wanna use ffmpeg to “fix” said aspect ratio.

I’m confused. LOL

I’ve downloaded TESB and the aspect ratio looks - to me, exactly the same as when I watch widescreen LD’s on my TV and select 16:9 in order to avoid a pillar boxed widescreen image. I’m presented with the same aspect ratio in all my media players as default.

Thanks for doing these! 😃

According to the tech specs at IMDB, Land and Freedom’s aspect ratio is 1.66:1.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114671/technical?ref_=tt_dt_spec

The UK DVD is however framed at 1.85:1.

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews10/land_of_freedom_.htm

Yet the South Korean release uses the 1.66:1 OAR but is “FULLSCREEN.”

I’m somewhat confused here, isn’t full screen 4:3? Which DVD out of the two is the better choice?

They certainly look decent imho. Were you able to adjust them to 16:9?

Nice work! 😃

What gear/software did you use for the capturing and processing?

@litemakr: over the years, which release(s) have been your preferred viewing?

pittrek said:

I have no problem to paypal you some “financial support” and I hope I’m not the only one 😃

You’re not. I’ll happily pitch in too. 😃

SwissArmyTin said:

Maybe upscaled VHS masters? And by “not 480p” he means “not the quality 480p could be”? I dunno.

I dunno either. Pretty confusing original post. In any case, the DVD’s are 480i, as another member has confirmed.

pittrek said:

Wait a moment - are the NTSC DVDs different from the PAL DVDs? Because I’m pretty sure my DVDs are 4:3

The DVD’s for Seasons 1-4 are 4:3, on both PAL and NTSC.

Handman said:

Pan-and-scan is back in full force.

Indeed. Many a dedicated film channel are using 4:3 P&S versions of recent releases. Nearly everything shown by airlines carries the dreaded, “This film has been modified from its original version. It has been formatted to fit your screen.”

It was also shown on the BBC during the holidays in 2:35.1 (but with edits to language so it could be run during an afternoon slot) and they’re still using the 2008 version containing the CGI matte.

litemakr said:

I’ll try to get a screengrab later, but it appears to just have the ends chopped off so there is no letterboxing. They do this for US TV broadcasts as well, but have always used the blu-ray transfer.

Ah, I understand: the modern day equivalent of full frame, in order to appease viewers who’d complain about their 16:9 TV’s not being filled. This practice is also widespread in the UK as well.

Thanks for the heads up. As a matter of curiosity, is it possible for you to share a comparison of the regular framing and the cropping please? I’m in the UK and so can’t access Hulu, as I don’t have my proxy at the moment. Otherwise I’d have a go myself.

skoal said:
The DVD’s aren’t 480p…

What exactly are they?

Jetrell Fo said:

JayArgonaut said:

Wazzles said:

Jetrell Fo said:

Dek Rollins said:

^PM sent.

These requests should really be directed to the spleen forums. Why they keep being directed here is confusing.

Because people keep sending them invites here. I don’t think I’ve seen any of those people come back.

Yeah, hit and runners. Apparently once they’ve become members, some of them don’t even bother to seed and simply delete the torrents once the download is complete.

When I inquired about it over at the Spleen I was told that those coming there for Star Wars are usually the worst members ever. I choked on my water I laughed so hard.

Please PM me the thread link so that I can also share the laughter. I certainly wouldn’t want to be accused of publicly mocking new members…

captainsolo said:

The ridiculous number of extra materials will likely never be compiled officially unless a settlement is finally reached between WB and the Salkinds. Wish they would finally.

Can you elaborate about this please? Are the two on bad terms, like with McClory vs Danjaq and MGM?

A potential heads up. ITV4 (UK/Europe) are screening J.T.R on Xmas day. I don’t know what version they’ll show or whether it will be even shown in the OAR but it might be worth checking out. I’d record it but only the SD channel is available on my lineup. Perhaps those with access to DVB-S2 or DVB-C2 could grab the HD broadcast?

Jetrell Fo said:

I’m not trying to be rude here but this is the second thread in the project section where you “want” all this stuff, specially done to your liking, but I don’t see you offering much in the way of support for the folks your asking to do it.

You haven’t been a member here terribly long. You might want to consider a new strategy, otherwise your requests are going to become background noise to others who might consider helping you some.

Just something you might want to consider.

Judging by their subsequent demand in another thread, for a restoration to be completed in time for Xmas, as if it were a matter of life or death, the advice has not been heeded.

@litemakr: I cannot thank you enough for your efforts with presenting ROTLA as it was meant to be seen. You’ve given me a new found appreciation for the film. Are you accepting donations towards V2.0?

Wazzles said:

Jetrell Fo said:

Dek Rollins said:

^PM sent.

These requests should really be directed to the spleen forums. Why they keep being directed here is confusing.

Because people keep sending them invites here. I don’t think I’ve seen any of those people come back.

Yeah, hit and runners. Apparently once they’ve become members, some of them don’t even bother to seed and simply delete the torrents once the download is complete.