Jay

luckydube56 said:

Fans who did not like TFA did not like it for reasons they cannot quite put their finger on.

True in some cases, but I think some of us have been pretty specific about what we don’t like, and in my case, most of it has nothing to do with logical problems.

Some of the complaints have been way out there, though. I don’t love TFA, but I don’t think it’s awful either.

TV’s Frink said:

Don’t think I don’t see what you did there, and don’t think I agree with you…

I think I need Threepio to translate this.

luckydube56 said:

I knew the first Star Wars had charm when C3P0 and R2D2 scamper across a narrow corridor of the Tantive IV while Stormtroopers and Rebel fighters were shooting at each other. The scene is utterly ridiculous and simultaneously wonderful and engaging because of that fact. In the midst of this deadly situation, those two goof ball droids walked right across and managed to not get shot! Even my child mind could perceive the irony.

I always thought this scene foreshadowed their coming adventure, and the trilogy as a whole really. These two were blessed by fate and bound to come through unscathed — after being repaired a few times, of course 😃

It’s important to remember that the Force is a guiding agent that pushes characters in the Star Wars universe together and into “coincidental” circumstances, and their actions are an entertaining blend of destiny and self-motivation, but it can be difficult to discern the difference between the Force and just plain lazy writing.

TV’s Frink said:

darklordoftech said:

The lighting-pacing-music combination that gives Star Wars its identity isn’t there.

The lighting-pacing-music of “Star Wars” was over thirty years ago.

So was the plot of TFA, but that doesn’t seem to bother a lot of people.

TV’s Frink said:

So they went into battle with non-lethal riot control gear? And one of them used this non-lethal riot control gear in the middle of a chaotic battle to call out and fight a dude with a lightsaber?

I really disliked that scene. Now it makes even less sense.

imperialscum said:

There is plenty of thinking material besides lasers and lightsabers and trench runs.

I like Star Wars enough to have started a web site dedicated to it and kept it running for almost 13 years. They’re great movies and a lot of fun. That said, there are reasons why enjoying Star Wars — every episode, I through VII — requires one to turn off their brain a bit and “enjoy the ride”. There’s nothing wrong with that, but let’s not assign more depth than is actually there in order to build the films up. They’re not thinking films, and that’s fine.

imperialscum said:

There is a big difference between just holding an opinion and mocking people who don’t hold the same opinion.

I didn’t mock anyone. I implied that modern moviegoers are less discerning, which I think is largely true. General consensus on Citizen Kane is that it’s a cinema classic. For a long time now, most film fans have thought it’s something special; your opinion is clearly in the minority and doesn’t negate the general consensus.

Please note that I never said liking action/adventure movies doesn’t make one less discerning. I love action movies. I can watch Demolition Man and Total Recall (the original) over and over and love them every time, but that doesn’t make Citizen Kane boring in comparison.

imperialscum said:
The way I see it, Citizen Kane just doesn’t have enough depth, width and appeal to provide the grounds for “geeking out over” it. It is just a boring snobbish film.

I found it pretty riveting the first time I saw it. The lack of conversation about it by modern filmgoers says more about them than the movie. Or it could be that it’s been talked about to death already.

I like lasers and lightsabers and trench runs, but I also like thinking sometimes, too.

Possessed said:

I thought the blu rays of TNG movies looked pretty good.

They’re not the worst I’ve seen, but they don’t look like film at all. DNR’d almost to the point of looking like video.

Tobar said:

Zinda, his face black, his eyes red.

Kiteo, his eyes closed.

The Beast at Tanagra.

Paramount and CBS said:

Star Trek is a treasured franchise

Which is why we shit all over it with mediocre theatrical releases and refuse to remaster any of the TOS and TNG films besides WOK.

First use of JEDIT?

http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/631198

Except that Billy Dee Williams was perfect for the role, and there’s nothing to suggest that he was chosen for any other reason.

I would prefer this type of speculation be left out of the discussion, please.

Alderaan said:

As for Finn, his character was all over the map. I don’t blame this on Boyega, because it appears to me to have been a writing problem. Some producer in a script meeting must have decided that it would be a good idea to have a black stormtrooper in the film, because that’s pretty much all he was. If the plot needed him to be scared, he was scared. If it needed him to be brave, he was brave. If the plot needed him to be reckless, he was reckless. If it needed him to get beat up by a random stormtrooper, he was overmatched and beaten up by a random stormtrooper. If it needed him to hold his own against and injure an experienced force user … well, he did that too.

That’s basically all he was, just a black stormtrooper good guy because well, that’s unique isn’t it?

Be careful with racial discussions, please. It’s really easy for that to veer off into a bad place. There’s no reason to assume Boyega was cast in the part other than they felt he was good for the role.

Alderaan said:

One of the worst parts of the film was when the CGI prequel monsters got loose on Han’s freighter. That whole part of the film was not Star Wars. The tone was wrong. Anyone else feel the same?

Yes.

Funny that you call them “prequel monsters” because that’s exactly what I was thinking during that scene. Just dumb.

TV’s Frink said:

Actually there are many of us here who rate TPM highest of the prequels.

I don’t doubt that. I mean that I don’t dislike it as much as most here do. Maybe I have the wrong impression, though.

captainsolo said:

This is how I rank them as films standalone.
ANH-4 stars out of 4. Masterpiece.
ESB- 4 stars out of four. Masterpiece.
ROTJ-4 stars out of 4. Simplistic at times serial adventure.
TPM-3.5 stars out of four. Despite numerous narrative flaws this is still a memorable exercise in scifi.
AOTC-2 stars out of four.
ROTS-1.5 stars out of four.
TFA-1.5 stars out of four.

But most people simply say I don’t like anything…

Can’t say I agree with your ratings for ROTJ and TPM, but I do have a more positive opinion of TPM than most other members here. It’s the only one of the prequels that feels like a Star Wars movie to me, and despite its many problems, it gave us an awesome lightsaber duel and one of the best soundtracks in the entire franchise.

Maybe I’d like TFA more if they slowed down the pacing a bit and added more exposition to flesh out the story. That wouldn’t solve all its issues, but I think it would help. It begs for an extended cut.

SilverWook said:

Because nobody ever got sucked into the sand without much explanation in any other movie? Lawrence of Arabia and Max Max Beyond Thunderdome spring to mind.

Pointing to other movies as an excuse (especially Thunderdome) doesn’t really cut it. And I love Mad Max.

I actually didn’t think much of it myself, and I didn’t even remember Rey’s line about quicksand. It’s just an example of lazy writing (“we need X to happen, so let’s introduce Y a bit earlier”), and the least egregious in TFA by far.

The Stormtrooper sword fight was just dumb. Finn swinging around a lightsaber against an experienced Force user was dumb. Darth Vader’s torched mask could’ve beaten Finn with less difficulty.

And now that we have inanimate objects serving as vessels for the Force, why not? Vader’s mask can go head to head with Luke’s severed hand in Ep. VIII. Yellow Yoda probably has that in a chest someplace, along with Luke’s X-Wing keys.

TV’s Frink said:

Rey mentions the quicksand to BB-8 earlier.

Writer #1: “Hey, we need to disappear Poe’s TIE fighter after they crash.”
Writer #2: “Have Rey say something about quicksand in an earlier scene. Done.”
Writer #1: “Awesome! Lunchtime.”

Same deal with Finn and his saber skills.

Writer #1: “How can Finn possibly fight Ren in a saber battle and not get sliced to pieces?”
Writer #2: “Show him fighting a bit earlier with a Stormtrooper who has a saber-like weapon.”
Writer #1: “What value would sword fighting be to a Stormtrooper?”
Writer #2: “It’s Star Wars, man. Just shut off your brain and enjoy the ride.”

Alderaan said:

TavorX said:

As someone whom really likes TFA, I think some of us are being too rude on those that didn’t like it.

Probably likewise.

We’re all passionate about this subject, so it’s flying in both directions right now.

We need to respect others’ opinions and not let it get too heated or personal.

Bingowings said:

I thought as a forum we were open to opinions and observations? I think he makes lots of perfectly valid points. On topic points too.

Exactly. TFA is sloppy, even for Star Wars.

Even though we initially wanted all spoilers within the official review thread, I don’t think it’s such a bad idea for those with less than glowing reviews to have a place to gather and vent their frustrations.

Bingowings said:

I was tempted to put it below ROTS because despite the obvious flaws in all the prequels I do remember leaving the cinema with that ‘cinema buzz’ of visiting a fictional realm and returning. When I left TFA I felt" hmmm that happened". The performances of the leads were great it looked great but it felt cynical albeit a more sophisticated cynical than Prometheus or The Phantom Menace. No buzz.

Same here. Felt like just another night at the movies.

Nice read. Thanks.

Bingowings said:

4.TFA 65 balls

Have you posted a review in the official review thread? If so, I didn’t see it. I’m curious to know your thoughts because we both rank TFA slightly below ROTJ, which seems to be the minority opinion.

moviefreakedmind said:

I agree with TV’s Frink in that this movie will not end up like TPM in a few years.

I’m not saying TFA will be as panned as TPM in 5 years. I was only trying to illustrate a point. I do think some of the glowing reviews will give way to more realistic appraisals, though.

This movie, while it had its faults, still certainly has a lot of great moments in it that are undeniably thrilling.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this 😃

TV’s Frink said:

Jay said:

It’s true that Star Wars has always required a rather liberal suspension of disbelief. I was okay with that when I was 10. I’m not anymore.

To make a point you’ve been making, that came off as a bit condescending to those of us who like the film.

My apologies. It was a simple statement of fact, but I can see how that it would come off as condescending.

I guess what I’m saying is that I no longer accept the shortcomings of the previous films as an excuse for the latest film in the franchise not to aim any higher.

Do you accept the shortcomings of the OT? Seems like you do. If you ask me there were plenty of those, but they’re still great movies (too).

I’m not going to address your response point by point because we simply don’t see TFA the same way and we could go back and forth for hours, but I will respond to this. My biggest problem with TFA isn’t the liberal application of Star Wars logic, though I do wish it were more like ESB than ANH in that regard. (I don’t think many here would dispute that ESB is the smartest and most put-together of the OT.) What I don’t like is the lazy script. I don’t like that it requires a lot of “well maybe this and maybe that” to justify characters’ motives. I don’t like Death Star III and the lame, boring “battle” to destroy it. And Snope is a villain I’d expect to see in a Harry Potter movie.

I’ve seen 30 years’ worth of films between the OT and now, and while I can accept a certain amount of silly logic, I can’t accept lazy writing that’s too scared to try something different while simultaneously punting so much to the next installment.

There are things I like about TFA (see my initial review), which is why I’m not completely shitting on it and saying it’s as bad as the prequels. That’s absurd. But I don’t rank it as highly at ROTJ because its script is even more derivative and it has even fewer great moments. There were some scenes I really liked and I enjoyed much of the first half, but I was bored through most of it. I don’t see how that will improve upon repeat viewings.

Jetrell Fo said:

I suspect that my use of the number 1, instead of the word one, may have caused some confusion. My statement was not directed at you in particular or anyone else in particular for that matter. This is the first new Star Wars movie with original characters in it for almost 30 years. I’m used to the criticisms of the original trilogy and the prequel trilogy being most prominent here. I guess I figured that due to the age of the actors, the director, the film-making style, and the long wait that most fans would at least be less inclined to be a bit harder to satisfy considering there are still 2 films to go where anything could happen.

There was no drama intended in the statement you pointed out … I was merely referring to the fact that most all of us are here for the same reason, our love of Star Wars itself, differences in opinion aside.

I hope you are able to give it another chance. It’s as imperfect as any Star Wars movie before it but it is a fun ride considering it’s simple start.

😃

No confusion, I get it. You’re not singling anyone out. I’m just saying that what you need from a movie isn’t necessarily what everyone else needs. No big deal.

And to your point, I think fans ARE being more generous with TFA than they normally would. They’re just so happy that TFA didn’t completely suck that they’re willing to gloss over its obvious shortcomings and “enjoy the ride”. It’ll be interesting to see if TFA has as many fans 5 or 10 years from now as it does today. Everyone loves to claim today that they hated TPM when it came out, but out of all the Star Wars fans I knew back then, I don’t recall one saying they didn’t like it. That happened later.

It’s true that Star Wars has always required a rather liberal suspension of disbelief. I was okay with that when I was 10. I’m not anymore.

I guess what I’m saying is that I no longer accept the shortcomings of the previous films as an excuse for the latest film in the franchise not to aim any higher.