Jay

Ryan-SWI said:

Mocata said:

They have a brand to maintain, it can’t be watered down with talk of multiple visions.

Considering they’ve managed to destroy their PR of the brand in 2 and a half years a Director’s Cut would probably be the least damaging thing they’ve done in a while.

That being said we’ll get a Jar Jar Binks spin off before that happens.

Also the film has barely crossed 300 million worldwide, am I still being premature in calling it a box office flop or?..

No. It bombed. They’ll be fortunate to break even with home releases.

And the reactions would be reversed if James Woods had stood up at the Oscars and said, “Fuck Obama!”

It lacks class regardless who does it or who the target is.

Handman said:

screams in the void said:

not a fan of most Marvel movies then ?

They’re the movie equivalent to McDonalds. You enjoy it for what it is. Star Wars shouldn’t be that.

It might be difficult to accept, but for most moviegoers outside the hardcore fanbase, Star Wars is McDonald’s. They consume it, enjoy it for what it is, then get on with their lives. They don’t debate the merits of the movie for decades afterwards in forums.

Frankly, I’m amazed at how Marvel can link everything together and have it remain fairly consistent and good enough for most people to enjoy it (like fast food).

TFA was like a Big Mac at two in the morning after the bars let out. TLJ was closer to a McDonald’s salad: some healthy stuff in there, but not terribly satisfying.

Haven’t seen Solo yet, so I can’t really say, but it sounds like maybe it’s the Filet-O-Fish?

TV’s Frink said:

Jay said:

People still showed up in theaters for them despite the mediocre reviews, which tells us audiences found them relevant.

I’m not so sure we know what it tells us.

It tells us people were willing to get off their couches and pay for a ticket, which is more than they were willing to do for Solo.

DominicCobb said:

Jay said:

TV’s Frink said:

Jay said:

TV’s Frink said:

Jay said:

DominicCobb said:

I don’t buy the “protest” argument at all (seems a little tin foil hat to me). If hardcore fans didn’t like TLJ, they probably know that Solo has nothing to do with it. IX’s performance will be a better indicator of the true response to VIII. I think the “boycott Soylo” group is a pretty minor demo, especially considering most of those people probably saw it anyway.

It’s all speculation, and I agree that IX’s numbers will be a better indicator. I think they’ll be worse than TLJ’s unless there are some clear indicators from Disney that they’re changing direction.

As always with SW, the fact of the matter is most of the audience is made up of casual fans at best. For them I think the main reason is that they still see Star Wars as one single franchise, whereas something like Marvel is a combination of different franchises (which is to say nothing of the fact that Solo’s performance is roughly on par with most Marvel origin movies). I do think the five month gap probably hurt it, as people aren’t used to so much SW at once, and checked out when they felt this one was skippable.

Unless TLJ is what told them it was skippable, because Star Wars itself has become skippable.

It was already skippable the minute TPM was released. Disney made it relevant again.

Box office says different.

Clearly I wasn’t referring to the box office, but regardless, one poor showing and the franchise is dead. Ok.

I was referring to the prequels’ box office. Sorry for not being clear. People still showed up in theaters for them despite the mediocre reviews, which tells us audiences found them relevant.

A lot of people hoped the next one would be better. It’s apples and oranges anyway, “Episodes” vs. spin-offs. The former implies required viewing.

And I never said the franchise was dead because of Solo’s numbers. If TFA proved anything, it’s that Star Wars fans will come back in droves to give the franchise another chance. Solo’s numbers are a message to Disney; they can either rationalize the loss with a bunch of excuses like I’m seeing in this thread, or they can do some soul-searching and ask themselves why TLJ split the fanbase and Solo flopped soon after.

It just seems silly to me to assume that if there’s a message about Solo it has to do with the quality of TLJ. Saying that the reason has more to do with the concept and placement of the film at hand (and not the reaction to a mostly unrelated film) is an excuse is ridiculous. It’s about paying attention to far more relevant factors.

I’m also not sure what you’re implying in regards to the “why” TLJ split the fanbase and what especially that’d have to do with Solo.

I’m not sure why everyone is placing so much weight on the idea that Solo’s lack of a number makes it this entirely different beast subject to its own rules. Bring up RO as a comparison, which did just fine, and the excuse becomes the time of year, even though Memorial Day weekend has been a haven for blockbusters for decades. Refute that idea and the poor turnout is because some unrelated comic book movies came out the week before and stole its thunder.

And why wouldn’t a dislike for TLJ translate into a lower likelihood of seeing Solo, especially if it’s somehow “less than” a numbered Star Wars film? I skipped RO in theaters because I wasn’t a fan of TFA. It’s a franchise, not a bunch of one-offs.

Seems to me you guys are drawing this firm line between Solo and everything else even though there’s no evidence this line exists, and then you brush aside RO’s relative success as a mere issue of release timing. RO was no more “necessary” than Solo and it was released at a time of year when people are busier than they are during Memorial Day weekend. I don’t think anyone, even Disney, expected Solo to succeed like a numbered film, but to fall so far short of RO’s numbers was a shocker.

I’m not saying fans’ dissatisfaction with TLJ explains Solo’s poor showing in its entirety; a loss that big involves many factors. But I’m not going to brush it aside as some anomaly either.

TV’s Frink said:

Jay said:

TV’s Frink said:

Jay said:

DominicCobb said:

I don’t buy the “protest” argument at all (seems a little tin foil hat to me). If hardcore fans didn’t like TLJ, they probably know that Solo has nothing to do with it. IX’s performance will be a better indicator of the true response to VIII. I think the “boycott Soylo” group is a pretty minor demo, especially considering most of those people probably saw it anyway.

It’s all speculation, and I agree that IX’s numbers will be a better indicator. I think they’ll be worse than TLJ’s unless there are some clear indicators from Disney that they’re changing direction.

As always with SW, the fact of the matter is most of the audience is made up of casual fans at best. For them I think the main reason is that they still see Star Wars as one single franchise, whereas something like Marvel is a combination of different franchises (which is to say nothing of the fact that Solo’s performance is roughly on par with most Marvel origin movies). I do think the five month gap probably hurt it, as people aren’t used to so much SW at once, and checked out when they felt this one was skippable.

Unless TLJ is what told them it was skippable, because Star Wars itself has become skippable.

It was already skippable the minute TPM was released. Disney made it relevant again.

Box office says different.

Clearly I wasn’t referring to the box office, but regardless, one poor showing and the franchise is dead. Ok.

I was referring to the prequels’ box office. Sorry for not being clear. People still showed up in theaters for them despite the mediocre reviews, which tells us audiences found them relevant.

And I never said the franchise was dead because of Solo’s numbers. If TFA proved anything, it’s that Star Wars fans will come back in droves to give the franchise another chance. Solo’s numbers are a message to Disney; they can either rationalize the loss with a bunch of excuses like I’m seeing in this thread, or they can do some soul-searching and ask themselves why TLJ split the fanbase and Solo flopped soon after.

TV’s Frink said:

Jay said:

DominicCobb said:

I don’t buy the “protest” argument at all (seems a little tin foil hat to me). If hardcore fans didn’t like TLJ, they probably know that Solo has nothing to do with it. IX’s performance will be a better indicator of the true response to VIII. I think the “boycott Soylo” group is a pretty minor demo, especially considering most of those people probably saw it anyway.

It’s all speculation, and I agree that IX’s numbers will be a better indicator. I think they’ll be worse than TLJ’s unless there are some clear indicators from Disney that they’re changing direction.

As always with SW, the fact of the matter is most of the audience is made up of casual fans at best. For them I think the main reason is that they still see Star Wars as one single franchise, whereas something like Marvel is a combination of different franchises (which is to say nothing of the fact that Solo’s performance is roughly on par with most Marvel origin movies). I do think the five month gap probably hurt it, as people aren’t used to so much SW at once, and checked out when they felt this one was skippable.

Unless TLJ is what told them it was skippable, because Star Wars itself has become skippable.

It was already skippable the minute TPM was released. Disney made it relevant again.

Box office says different.

DominicCobb said:

I don’t buy the “protest” argument at all (seems a little tin foil hat to me). If hardcore fans didn’t like TLJ, they probably know that Solo has nothing to do with it. IX’s performance will be a better indicator of the true response to VIII. I think the “boycott Soylo” group is a pretty minor demo, especially considering most of those people probably saw it anyway.

It’s all speculation, and I agree that IX’s numbers will be a better indicator. I think they’ll be worse than TLJ’s unless there are some clear indicators from Disney that they’re changing direction.

As always with SW, the fact of the matter is most of the audience is made up of casual fans at best. For them I think the main reason is that they still see Star Wars as one single franchise, whereas something like Marvel is a combination of different franchises (which is to say nothing of the fact that Solo’s performance is roughly on par with most Marvel origin movies). I do think the five month gap probably hurt it, as people aren’t used to so much SW at once, and checked out when they felt this one was skippable.

Unless TLJ is what told them it was skippable, because Star Wars itself has become skippable.

RO ended up doing over a billion worldwide and Solo isn’t going to get anywhere close to that.

I’m not buying into the “Star Wars fatigue” argument. There’s a new comic book movie every other week and they’re all doing well. People binge 10 hours of TV in a weekend. Seeing a few hours of Star Wars 5 months ago isn’t going to stop fans from seeing another few hours of Star Wars movie now.

Many claim it’s only a “vocal minority” who aren’t happy with the direction Star Wars is headed, but I think there’s a bit of a protest vote going on here and it didn’t matter whether Solo was actually good or not. TLJ did some damage.

I could, but with sites already dedicated to that sort of functionality, it seems redundant to add it directly to the forum software.

moviefreakedmind said:

Yeah, you can, and should, be able to wear anything you want to school.

In 7th grade (1989 I think?), I wore a t-shirt that said, “Do me, not drugs!”, which was a big hit.

It didn’t work, though 😦

Trident said:

I don’t know. I guess I’m just thinking being oversensitive sort of short-changes the chances to actually fix problems instead of just muffling them up.

Nobody is allowed to be remorseful anymore. Whatever you’ve done, and to whatever degree, can only be rectified by your career ending and you going away forever. And if you do apologize, you’ll only be ripped into more fiercely.

Republicans have learned this, which is why they rarely apologize. It’s better to deny, deny, deny, and wait for it to pass out of the current news cycle, because there’s always something new waiting to offend people if you give it a few days.

DominicCobb said:

Jay said:

DominicCobb said:

TV’s Frink said:

darthrush said:

Overall, RJ took a few risks but didn’t go nearly far enough to get away from remixing elements of other SW movies.

So he should have made 90% of people hate it instead of 50% of people hate it?

Haha this is good.

My post was going to be

“So he could only make the creative decisions you wanted him to make, not the ones he wanted.”

Isn’t this a summary of most opinions? “I like this, I didn’t like that, and I wish they’d done this other thing instead.”

The logic behind your line of thinking is sound though, because TFA was applauded — and Disney commercially rewarded — for following the formula.

K

Thanks for the thoughtful response!

DominicCobb said:

TV’s Frink said:

darthrush said:

Overall, RJ took a few risks but didn’t go nearly far enough to get away from remixing elements of other SW movies.

So he should have made 90% of people hate it instead of 50% of people hate it?

Haha this is good.

My post was going to be

“So he could only make the creative decisions you wanted him to make, not the ones he wanted.”

Isn’t this a summary of most opinions? “I like this, I didn’t like that, and I wish they’d done this other thing instead.”

The logic behind your line of thinking is sound though, because TFA was applauded — and Disney commercially rewarded — for following the formula.

SilverWook said:

Is Justice League the new Heaven’s Gate/Howard The Duck/Ishtar now?

They could potentially clean up on home video if we get to see the original footage. Assemble it into an alternate cut ala Superman II.

I’d pay to see Snyder’s cut.

moviefreakedmind said:

If you care about this video game, but don’t care about gun control, then you’re not interested in actually addressing what is causing these shootings.

I care about the publisher’s right to make and sell the game. I also care about sensible gun control.

The discussion about private platforms and their effect on speech is interesting, partly because it forces right-leaning folks to debate capitalism vs. free speech. When a private platform becomes ubiquitous, its decisions about what content is acceptable and what content gets blocked or demonetized affects the course of the discussion and potentially the culture itself. However, a private platform isn’t obligated to remain fair or provide all sides with an equal voice. YouTube was brought up previously as an example.

Steam falls under the same umbrella, I think. It’s the biggest PC game retailer by far. It’s arguable that it’s very difficult to succeed as a PC game developer without distributing via Steam, so if Steam drops your game, things are going to get a lot tougher on you. Steam isn’t obligated to support you, however.

Once access to a private platform becomes a requirement for visibility and success, does the platform have an obligation that goes beyond its own financial interests?

DrDre said:

While this review is for TLJ it sort of sums up how I feel about the current state of the franchise, and the addition of Solo to the list of feature films:

https://www.google.nl/amp/s/www.popmatters.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi-death-spirit-review-2517583409.amp.html

This quote sums it up pretty well:

“These films of oppression and resistance, good and evil are restrictive in their scope, their multi episode continuation an echo chamber that would best left to the silence of imagination over big screen realisation. Star Wars has become a broken record, with a faulty premise of philosophical balance, that can only be handled appropriately by breaking its defined structure.”

While Solo is not a bad film in my view, and I liked both TFA and RO, I’m sick to death of the current franchise’s self-referential nature, and its tendency to revisit past hits. The announcement of a Boba Fett film on the day of Solo’s release only reinforces this view, and I dislike it intensely. Star Wars used to spark the imagination. These new films stiffle the imagination by either giving us distorted versions of what came before (ST), or by filling in the blanks with backstory and fan service (RO and Solo). So, while I found some enjoyment watching Solo, I can’t help but feel empty after yet another entry in the continuing Star Wars franchise, which sadly grows much faster in volume than in original content.

Nailed it.

TLJ gets some respect from me for trying to break the mold and be something different, even if it fell flat in many ways, and I blame it only partially for its “failures” because it was forced to deal with the deficient story of TFA — a boring retread.

I’d gladly wait another three years if I thought the extra time would make IX a better movie, but with all the excuses they’re making for Solo’s box office bomb, I don’t have high hopes that they’re going to take any lessons from it and rethink their direction.

Haven’t seen Solo yet and won’t judge it based on others’ reviews (I liked RO more than I thought I would), but I’m probably waiting for Netflix like I did with RO. These side story films don’t excite me the same way the numbered episodes do, but I don’t dislike the extra bit of flavor they add to the galaxy.

SilverWook said:

I suppose the show could be salvaged if they kill her character off between seasons and bring in Sandy Duncan? 😉
(Nobody is going to get that one…)

The Conner Family?

moviefreakedmind said:

DominicCobb said:

Roseanne is straight up racist.

I don’t know. She said something racist. I don’t know if that makes her racist. She actually had an episode about unconscious racism where she called out white people for unwittingly judging black people. Like I said in that list, you’d have to get rid of Elvis Costello, Lou Reed, and a ton of others if you judge people by one stupid statement.

I watched the reboot and the Yemeni/Muslim neighbor episode was the best one in my opinion. Anyone who called it racist or Islamophobic completely missed the point. And never mind that there are regular cast members on the show who are black, so calling Roseanne racist or the show racist implies that these cast members don’t know enough to make their own decisions about who they work with, which is condescending.

One of the reasons for the show’s popularity is that it represents how American families not drowning in PC culture actually talk in their private lives. Lots of people have weird ideas about other people, but that doesn’t mean they’re malicious in their intent or full-on racist.

However, everyone should know by now that comparing people with dark skin to apes has racist connotations (which is why it’s silly that some on the right are calling out Bill Maher for comparing Trump to an orangutan…it’s not the same thing). You just don’t do it.

Thanks for picking this up and completing it. I just suffered through the remastered edition on Netflix without realizing this was available. Beautiful work.

One thing I noticed on the first two episodes: after the opening credits, the audio is pushed heavily toward the right channel. The rest of the episodes seem fine, with dialog anchored to the center. I’ve tested it on both my Mac and Windows 10 machine with the same results. Is this just a quirk in the original mix?

dahmage said:

MalàStrana said:

You too my little Frink! Enjoy the sun and the fresh air.

Called for mod. But since Jay isn’t angry at you I dunno what will happen.

Problem?

moviefreakedmind said:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/05/jordan-peterson-does-not-support-equality-of-opportunity.html

Another great article on Jordan Peterson hypocrisy.

moviefreakedmind said:

Excellent exposé of Jordan Peterson associate, alt-right apologist, and hypocrite Dave Rubin:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/free-speech-true-believer-dave-rubin-the-top-talker-of-the-intellectual-dark-web-doesnt-want-to-talk-about-his-own-ideas

If Jordan Peterson and Dave Rubin are everything these writers say, why not just link directly to their talks/lectures so people can see for themselves instead of always pointing to editorials? It’s odd to me that there are literally hundreds of hours of footage and podcasts of both men available online at no cost, yet you rely primarily on editorials (again, editorials) about them to make your point rather than the words of the men themselves.

Locked. Anybody who has a problem with it or anything else can message me directly.

jay@originaltrilogy.com is defunct, by the way. It’s overrun with spam and I retired it months ago.

TV’s Frink said:

Both sides are definitely full of it. I think one side is significantly fuller of it but I might just be full of it myself.

Analyzing my own behavior and thought patterns forced me to arrive at the following conclusion regarding my own biases: the issues I care about most tend to be issues championed by Democrats (with a few significant exceptions), so it was easy for me to fall into the trap of seeing Republicans as “worse” and buy into negative depictions of conservatives. If I were as passionate about the issues conservatives tend to be passionate about, I’d quite likely view progressives as “worse”.

Our bias and self-confidence convince us that what we believe is obviously the most reasonable belief, and anyone who disagrees must be missing something, when what’s usually missing is just a bit of perspective, and perspective is difficult to maintain when feelings are involved. And because politics involve people at every level, feelings are always involved.

True objectivity is hard.

LexX said:

Jay said:

Some of my favorite Blu-ray releases are just clean 2K scans with minimal cleanup. Verhoeven’s RoboCop and Total Recall remasters look amazing.

Have they remastered Total Recall too? If yes then that has gone by me completely.

Since they’ve already done a 4K remaster for RoboCop BD release, hopefully they release it on 4K soon too!

I have this one, but it’s no longer in print:

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Total-Recall-Blu-ray/42963/

I think this later release has the same disc/master:

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Total-Recall-Blu-ray/121027/