Jar Jar Bricks

Not necessarily. Anakin would still be selected by Qui-Gon due to his natural propensity for the Force and mysterious nature of his birth aligning with prophecy. By Nev’s new idea, Palpatine’s actions would be why he becomes the moody and impulsive teenager in Episode 2, not explain why his bloodline is so gifted with the Force to begin with. And Rey must have had some natural propensity for the Force like Anakin to make her a viable candidate for Palp’s darkening of her, so to speak. So you still have to deal with powerful bloodlines created by the Force regardless. The only difference is in my current idea Palpatine is the one that actually wants the Force to make these bloodlines, and pushed it into creating them in the first place. Which explains significantly more in Star Wars canon, and doesn’t conflict with anything, as I’ve stated in my previous posts on this page.

I think that’s reading a bit too into things though, Raditz. Nowhere in Nev’s draft does it say that Palpatine had a vision which showed him Rey would be the most suitable person in all the galaxy for him to give most of his own power to. Nor should it, because that would be super clunky to implement. At the end of the day, I just don’t buy that a Palpatine barely clinging to life in a clone body is gonna give up most of his OWN power to supercharge some random little girl. I think this would end up being a problem for the majority of audience members. The far more likely thing he’d do is that he resorts to his old way of ordering a Force-empowered baby through the Midichlorian Express. The problem he then has to deal with is that the baby gets airdropped at a random location in the galaxy, so he can’t immediately come and pick her up. Which is another problem with Nev’s idea - he’d know all along where baby Rey was located. He would have come for her far sooner than the age we see her at in TFA’s vision. Probably would have killed her parents right after she was born.

I’m thinking about modifying the largest body paragraph for even more congruence with TFA. Honestly, anything that makes this reveal feel like it was planned out from the very beginning is welcome here IMO:

(Rey sees the vision of herself on the Sith throne)

“Luke saw the same fate in me. But you and I don’t want it.”

“Stop talking.”

“Why? I know you better than anyone else.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“The Force showed me glimpses of a girl like you long before we first met. When we fought, in the forest, the darkness inside of you fully awakened. You revealed yourself to the Emperor that day… just as he always intended.”

(Visions of Rey beating Kylo on Starkiller, falling into the dark cave, etc.)

“No!”

This way we can justify Kylo asking his officer “What girl?” because he has a specific girl in his mind that could have stolen the Falcon. Furthermore, his line “The girl I’ve heard so much about” takes on a different meaning. It also makes sense how he later states that the longer Rey is roaming about, the stronger she will become. Even at that moment, he knows that the two of them are somehow related.

Then I’d have to extend it back again. I only shortened it for fear that it would be too long, but with the whole “perfected in darkness” thing gone we might be good: “The Emperor manipulated the Force itself into creating life. First my grandfather, and then you. Both initially chosen as his heir. You… are rightfully a Palpatine.”

Nev, I don’t see too much wrong with your sequence of events. The only trouble is that it’s unlike Papa Palps to share his personal power with anyone. Your idea also begs the question much more than our current idea on why these random nobodies were selected for this operation. Surely there was a couple in his Sith cult with a child who he could perform this ritual with? That way he trusts them to do what’s in his own benefit. At least with our current idea, we have Anakin’s own birth being to a nobody to back it up, so we just have to take it as a fact that whenever Palps tells the Force to make a baby that it goes to some random woman across the galaxy. We also have the benefit of lining up with Rey’s TLJ dark side cave vision where she can’t see her parents. Our current line of “Your parents, Rey… they had no part in your conception…” suggests that was because she is genetically unrelated to them, only to the Force itself. We also make Rey a Skywalker in every sense of the word except exact genetic makeup.

That wouldn’t be a problem to generate. I like your second one there. Although we’d probably have to remove the Sith whispers.

Well, at least we’d be following a Star Wars tradition. I think having the surroundings of the character correct is more important than a minor continuity issue.

Here is a video of what I’m describing because it’s extremely hard to do that using text:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GJ8aiNZXjOmPOhNihXFpdfoTiPz2fNJA/view?usp=sharing

Nah, we’re going to take that scene from the Rey Nobody edit so her parents are never mentioned, just that she wants to destroy him. But that edit isn’t quite seamless at the moment, the shot of BB-8 they recycle is off because the camera would be in the Falcon’s wall (Rey on the right and Finn on the left) and yet there is another wall behind the droid, contradicting the previous shot of the Falcon’s interior. Rey needs to be on the left, and Finn on the right, with the wall in front of them and the Falcon’s interior behind the camera. Mirroring the BB-8 footage solves these problems - plus makes it look different.

hinventon said:

Now we just need someone to make a clean version of the scene so we can plug in the dialogue - I would attempt it but I’m not great with audio.

I just remembered that whoever made Rey nobody probably already has this done.

I like all of those changes except for a couple. The word “miracle” has too many positive connotations, and I doubt her mother was a virgin because she was assumably already in a relationship with Rey’s “father”. We don’t even know for sure if Shmi was one, either, we just know that “there was no father” at the time she became pregnant.

Also, I think defining their connection as something beyond blood and as something they share as creations of the Force itself is compelling because we haven’t seen something like that in Star Wars before, and it also immediately dispels any incest vibes. The line you’ve given is something that Palpatine himself will later state - we don’t need to repeat ourselves. I’d be down to replace “depth” with “strength”, though.

Yeah, I agree hinventon. I haven’t given it this much thought before, but it does make the most sense. It literally makes their duel on the Death Star wreckage another “duel of the fates”, because only one of them is going to make it out alive as Palpatine’s rightful heir. In my last draft, it’s clear both of them have seen that it is fate for only one of them to take the dark throne (Luke sees this vision of Ben in his mind from TLJ). That’s why playing the “duel of the fates” motif there now makes sense and isn’t just fan-service. Leia’s intervention allows both of them to walk away still on the light.

EddieDean said:

I like the vast majority of that, JJB. I think it’s focused and clean. I’m on the fence about Rey’s force awakening bringing her to the attention of Palpatine, but i don’t think we need the idea that the two need to fight to see who’s best. Rey’s the preferred host, so once she’s available to Palpatine, he’s more interested. (Implicitly, if you like, Kylo’s less innately powerful because he’s third generation.)

The idea behind that is he would be convinced Rey is his strongest heir, anyway. The only reason it needs to be worded that way is because we’re trying to reconcile the idea that he initially wanted Rey dead in this movie with the idea of her being his preferred candidate the whole time. So think of it like this, he wouldn’t tell Kylo - “Hey bud, I need you to go get yourself killed by Rey so she can tap into the dark side again.” He’d say what he told him as motivation - “Go on and try to kill her, end the Jedi, and maybe you have a chance of being what Vader could not be (Offscreen: but I doubt it, in all likelihood my chosen heir Rey is going to kill you in anger, so I win either way here).”

The reason he’d say “The princess of Alderaan has disrupted my plan” is because he intended for Kylo’s death to cement Rey in the dark side, but instead Rey healed him and Ben returned.

EDIT: Alternatively, I could make this idea that he wants Rey more apparent and have Kylo’s role as a failsafe less apparent - “I know Palpatine only wants me to try and kill you so that you give in to the dark side.” But this just raises questions about how he knows Rey is his “chosen heir” over himself to begin with.

Hmmm. I do think removing Rey’s parents from as much as possible generally seems to smooth things over nicely. Whereas TLJ is about revealing their devastating ordinariness, this movie should be about showcasing Rey’s own extraordinariness:

“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. I know the darkness that lives in you, Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“I’d never lie to you. Your parents were no one. Junk traders expecting a child they never wanted.”

“Don’t!”

“Your parents, Rey… they had no part in your conception…”

“I don’t want this!”

“…just like Vader.”

“No!”

“You’ve seen it, haven’t you? Your destiny.”

(Rey sees the vision of herself on the Sith throne)

“Luke saw the same fate in me. But you and I don’t want it.”

“Stop talking.”

“Why? I know you better than anyone else.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“Palpatine knew your true potential… your power. The first time we fought, in the forest, the darkness inside of you awakened. You revealed yourself to the Emperor that day… just as he intended.”

(Visions of Rey beating Kylo on Starkiller, falling into the dark cave, etc.)

“No!”

(The mask of Vader falls to the ground)

“So that’s where you are.”

“Before your Jedi path, Palpatine wanted you alive. I’ll come tell you why.”

---

“Rey… I know the rest of our story.”

“Tell me.”

"The Emperor manipulated the Force itself into creating life. My grandfather, and then you. You’re his chosen heir… a rightful Palpatine.”

"The Emperor wants us to fight each other so his strongest heir may claim the throne. He hasn’t realized the depth of our connection, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but shared power in the Force. We’ll end him and the Sith, and create a new order, together…”

(I’ve opted to remove “finish what Vader started” only because it’s a matter of interpretation whether Vader wanted to end the Sith or merely take on Luke as a Sith apprentice. As for the reference to the dyad, this would come from Palpatine later on since I don’t want him to start giving Rey a vocab lesson. He could know what the dyad is at this moment, but it’s better if he doesn’t mention that word specifically.)

---

“What are you most afraid of?”

“Myself.”

“Because you’re a Palpatine. Leia knew you shared the same struggle as her.”

“She never told me. She still trained me.”

“Because she saw your spirit. Your heart. Rey… some things are stronger than blood. Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi…”

---

“She was quick to learn in our training. But Leia feared the darkness that had lived in our father, and lived on in us. She surrendered her saber to me and said that one day it would be picked up again…by someone with the strength to overcome that darkness.”

So, at this rate, this edit would use Rey Nobody as a base (except for when she confronts Palps). This would be the most TLJ-friendly version of Rey Palpatine. But I’d want to mirror that shot of BB-8 because it would trigger me otherwise lol. It doesn’t even make much sense the way it’s currently implemented since the camera would be inside of the wall of the Falcon, and the other side of the room is too close. Mirroring the clip remedies both issues.

Ah, I see, they grabbed a shot of BB-8 from their first conversation on Ochi’s ship to split it. Although now I’m never gonna be able to unsee the fact that it’s a completely re-used shot lol. The Falcon doesn’t have cobwebs, either. If it could be removed from the first place then I guess I might be fine with it.

EDIT: Alternatively, the brief Chewie and Poe scene could be placed between their conversation. But that feels kinda weird from my testing. Mirroring the shot seems to do pretty good to distinguish it, contrary to what I initially expected.

hinventon said:

I don’t think promising to finish what Vader started is going to appeal to Rey that much.

That’s the point. She wants to take Ben’s hand, not Kylo Ren’s hand. Even after everything he’s learned, he’s still pushing his same old perspective. If we make his offer too reasonable, the audience won’t like that she doesn’t accept it. This has always bugged me about Ascendant v4. With the removal of “And take the throne”, it desperately needs a line like “And take his fleet” to make it clear his intentions are still sinister while wanting Palpatine to die.

EDIT: Also worth considering that we’re going to be modifying their prior conversation so Kylo is focusing on how alike she is to Vader, anyhow. Most of their prior conversation takes place with Vader’s mask looming behind them. It makes sense narratively to include such a reference.

Oh, and like I said, there’s no way to seamlessly edit around “He (Palpatine) killed my mother and my father” so we have to include them in some way.

I guess I’m still confused what exactly it is you intend for her parents? If we tie in the Lor San Tekka village stuff, then we end up having to dedicate that large paragraph of info to them. Which may be best to dedicate to something else. This hypothetical draft would end up looking pretty close to what I had a few days ago.

Perhaps her outright tendency toward the dark will be touched on in the next film in a more compelling way?

I dunno, I guess I’m fine with Rey having the same propensity for both dark and light as the Skywalkers because at least it means they quite literally live on in more than just name. But then we have to rotate back to her just being his “chosen heir” and “a rightful Palpatine” because anything other than that doesn’t make sense in the context of the Skywalkers being no different than her. And as I stated previously, it diminishes the stakes in her confrontation with Palpatine.

Then again, it does make her and Leia’s relationship incredibly touching since Luke’s conversation with her could go as follows:

“What are you most afraid of?”

“Myself.”

“Because you’re a Palpatine. Leia knew you shared her same struggle.”

“She never told me. She still trained me.”

“Because she saw your spirit. Your heart. Rey… some things are stronger than blood. Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi…”

Then we’d see how Leia struggled with the same dark instincts as Rey in the flashback with Luke which caused her to abandon her Jedi path. But, again, I don’t buy that she’d ever even consider striking down Palps after such a compelling conversation like this. The only way that makes sense is if she sees no other way to defeat him.

I’d personally prefer to make their struggles with the dark distinct so that we don’t already know if this is something she can overcome. Otherwise, we completely remove the stakes of her confrontation with Palpatine at the end. It also opens the door for people to dismiss what Kylo says about the Skywalker bloodline specifically as a lie from Palpatine to manipulate him, if that is what they wish. Luke only really has the opportunity to talk about Rey’s own background in his scenes anyway, and how Leia knew something about it, given what we have to work with.

I liked my approach of having the Skywalker bloodline be 50% light and 50% dark, but Palpatine still initiated Anakin’s conception. They are quite literally the “balance” of the Force itself, because they are an unaltered creation of it. It works as a prototype, if you will, that he would initiate, see as flawed, and seek to “improve”. So with Rey, he figures out how to impart his own nature onto a Force-created being. A spiritual “Palpatine”. She is more susceptible to the dark side than the Skywalkers. All of this lines up with canon, and it needn’t be mentioned ever again after this point. The point of this revelation is to make you watch the previous movies again with this altered perspective, NOT to see what comes next in canon for the Skywalkers. We already know Anakin, Luke, Leia, and Ben all have a great propensity for both the light and the dark and will continue to going forward in canon. Hell, Anakin’s life was literally spent 50% as a Skywalker and 50% as a Sith. In Rey’s upcoming movie, her continued struggle with the dark side as a “Palpatine” will almost certainly be touched on at some point. It’s important that this wouldn’t simply be a retread of the Skywalkers, whom according to you we should be moving away from. So we have to make it exceedingly clear exactly how they are different (greater draw to the dark side), while also similar (both a product of the Force itself, at the request of the Emperor).

No offense, but that actually isn’t the issue we’re currently having. We’re trying to figure out if it’s worth talking about what happens to her parents if they are indeed bad. I personally think we have to because of Rey’s scene with Finn immediately after all these reveals. Plus, if we kept “Weak, like your parents” that implies some sort of familiarity Palps has with them and their antics.

I do agree that the other idea makes more sense in terms of where the conversation was leading and also what makes sense for Palpatine himself to do. Granted, there’s no reason he couldn’t get impatient and want to find Rey and her parents before she taps into the dark side.

I don’t disagree. The trouble is that scene with Finn clearly has Rey say “He killed my mother and my father” and there isn’t a way to cut around that because it’s all in one shot beginning with Finn leaning over to grab something.

I’m not sure how we could even navigate the scene between her and Finn without mentioning what Palps did to her parents. The concern I personally have with not mentioning Anakin’s part in all this is that we make a direct comparison between the two at the beginning. Even without that there, most people will assume Palpatine created Anakin, too, purely based off of the similarities in their births and unconfirmed nature of this topic in the films themselves. Which creates concerning incest vibes regardless. So the way I see it, there really is no middle ground here. Either: 1. Anakin was created by the light, manipulated to the dark, redeemed, and all his descendants proceeded to give in to their unusually dark nature, or 2. Anakin always had a conflicted mind (perhaps 50% dark, 50% light - balanced), was redeemed, but his descendants still needed to fight their own inner conflict:

“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. Your nature is the dark side, Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“I’d never lie to you… your parents were no one. Junk traders expecting a child they never planned for.”

“Don’t!”

“Your father had no part in your conception.”

“I don’t want this!”

“…just like Vader.”

“No!”

“You see it, too, don’t you? The throne.”

(Rey sees a flash of the vision of herself on the Sith throne)

“Your parents feared you. The same way Luke feared me.”

“Stop talking.”

“But they never knew you like I do.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“Your parents were always drunk, especially so when they sold you. Palpatine’s followers had your parents taken. He was looking for you, but they couldn’t even remember what happened to you. They died to ensure you never saw a second chance at love."

(Brief shots of Ochi brandishing his blade - not their deaths because it shows them as too sympathetic)

“No!”

(The mask of Vader falls to the ground)

“So that’s where you are.”

“Before your Jedi path, Palpatine wanted you alive. I’ll come tell you why.”

---

“Rey… I know the rest of our story.”

“Tell me.”

“The Emperor manipulated the Force itself into creating life. My grandfather proved too balanced. So he gave you his own nature. You… are a Palpatine.”

"The Emperor wants us to fight each other so his strongest heir may claim the throne. He hasn’t realized the depth of our connection, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but shared power in the Force. We’ll kill him, and finish what Vader started, together…”

(This way he’s not giving Rey a vocab lesson in the middle of his proposal. We’ll save that for Palpatine to define since he’s known to do that sort of thing. We have to refer to “the Force” instead of the “dark side” because the midichlorians don’t pick sides of the Force.)

In an edit like this, the implication is that when the Force created this life on Palpatine’s behalf it was placed in a random woman across the galaxy. In Anakin’s case, he got lucky with a loving mother. But with Rey, we get to see what happens with the opposite; an abusive mother and step-father.

As for why Palpatine cannot extract Rey’s location from their minds, it’s literally because they cannot remember even selling her in the first place because of how drunk they were at the time and continue to be. I’d be willing to experiment with alternative wording for this. But we should probably keep “Weak, like your parents” and simply remove Rey’s response to this comment as what he’s stating is a compelling argument for why Rey should kill him instead of being an insult.

Ehhh. I just remembered that the scene immediately after this has Rey lamenting the fact that Palpatine killed her parents and that she wants revenge. I’m leaning more towards the good parents approach, which I’ll hide below:

“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. The dark side is in your nature, Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“You were right… your parents were no one. But your mother’s pregnancy began suddenly, before your father.”

“Don’t!”

“You are so much like my grandfather. So like Darth Vader….”

“I don’t want this!”

“…destined for darkness.”

“No!”

“Your parents were hunted across the galaxy.”

(Rey sees the vision of her parents and her abandonment.)

“They paid for your protection…in more than one way.”

“Stop talking.”

“Rey… I learned what happened to them.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“Your parents heard rumors of a hidden settlement, a sanctuary of the Force, on Jakku. They searched the desert for further help. But an agent of the Emperor tracked their stolen ship.”

(Rey sees her parents get killed and the mask of Vader falls to the ground.)

“So that’s where you are.”

“Before you chose the Jedi, Palpatine wanted you. I’ll come tell you why.”

—

“Why did the Emperor come for me?”

"Because he manipulated the Force itself into creating life. My grandfather. Then, perfected in darkness with you. You’re his chosen heir… a rightful Palpatine.”

"The Emperor only wants us to fight each other so his strongest heir may take the throne. But he’s unaware that we’re a dyad in the Force, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but shared power. We’ll kill him, and finish what Vader started, together…”

EDIT: Alternatively, Rey is just suffering the effects of having abusive parents in that scene with Finn. She still thinks that if they’d had more time alive without Palpatine killing them they would have changed their ways and come back to rescue her and love her, like my line in my previous post suggests. It would explain why, too, that she doesn’t seem to care that Ben Solo, who she loves, abused her as Kylo Ren. The only concept of love she grew up with was mixed with abuse. Which to be clear, doesn’t make any of it right or correct, but it makes sense at least. Thus why Finn says none of this sounds like her.

Something like the following, probably:

“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. The dark side is in your nature, Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“I’d never lie to you… your parents were no one. Junk traders expecting a child they never planned for.”

“Don’t!”

“Your father had no part in your conception.”

“I don’t want this!”

“…just like Vader.”

“No!”

“You see it, too, don’t you? The throne.”

(Rey sees a flash of the vision of herself on the Sith throne)

“Your family feared you. Just like mine did for me.”

“Stop talking.”

“Rey… our parents abandoned us to murderers.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“Your parents were always drunk, especially so when they sold you. Palpatine’s followers captured them. He was looking for you, but they couldn’t even remember what happened to you. They died to ensure you never saw a second chance at love.”

(SOME SORT OF VISUAL HERE)

“No!”

(The mask of Vader falls to the ground)

“So that’s where you are.”

“Before you chose the Jedi, Palpatine wanted you. I’ll come tell you why.”

—

“Why did the Emperor come for me?”

"Because he manipulated the Force itself into creating life. My grandfather. Then, perfected in darkness with you. You’re his chosen heir… a rightful Palpatine.”

"The Emperor only wants us to fight each other so his strongest heir may take the throne. But he’s unaware that we’re a dyad in the Force, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but shared power. We’ll kill him, and finish what Vader started, together…”

I still think a second vision of some sort might be welcome there. There’s two (unconnectable) shots of Rey with her parent’s death vision sandwiched in the middle. Now, yes, technically you could just cut the first of those shots with Rey and skip to the second one where she reacts, but I’m unsure how this would affect the pacing of the scene.