That wouldn’t be a problem to generate. I like your second one there. Although we’d probably have to remove the Sith whispers.
Well, at least we’d be following a Star Wars tradition. I think having the surroundings of the character correct is more important than a minor continuity issue.
Here is a video of what I’m describing because it’s extremely hard to do that using text:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GJ8aiNZXjOmPOhNihXFpdfoTiPz2fNJA/view?usp=sharing
Nah, we’re going to take that scene from the Rey Nobody edit so her parents are never mentioned, just that she wants to destroy him. But that edit isn’t quite seamless at the moment, the shot of BB-8 they recycle is off because the camera would be in the Falcon’s wall (Rey on the right and Finn on the left) and yet there is another wall behind the droid, contradicting the previous shot of the Falcon’s interior. Rey needs to be on the left, and Finn on the right, with the wall in front of them and the Falcon’s interior behind the camera. Mirroring the BB-8 footage solves these problems - plus makes it look different.
Now we just need someone to make a clean version of the scene so we can plug in the dialogue - I would attempt it but I’m not great with audio.
I just remembered that whoever made Rey nobody probably already has this done.
I like all of those changes except for a couple. The word “miracle” has too many positive connotations, and I doubt her mother was a virgin because she was assumably already in a relationship with Rey’s “father”. We don’t even know for sure if Shmi was one, either, we just know that “there was no father” at the time she became pregnant.
Also, I think defining their connection as something beyond blood and as something they share as creations of the Force itself is compelling because we haven’t seen something like that in Star Wars before, and it also immediately dispels any incest vibes. The line you’ve given is something that Palpatine himself will later state - we don’t need to repeat ourselves. I’d be down to replace “depth” with “strength”, though.
Yeah, I agree hinventon. I haven’t given it this much thought before, but it does make the most sense. It literally makes their duel on the Death Star wreckage another “duel of the fates”, because only one of them is going to make it out alive as Palpatine’s rightful heir. In my last draft, it’s clear both of them have seen that it is fate for only one of them to take the dark throne (Luke sees this vision of Ben in his mind from TLJ). That’s why playing the “duel of the fates” motif there now makes sense and isn’t just fan-service. Leia’s intervention allows both of them to walk away still on the light.
I like the vast majority of that, JJB. I think it’s focused and clean. I’m on the fence about Rey’s force awakening bringing her to the attention of Palpatine, but i don’t think we need the idea that the two need to fight to see who’s best. Rey’s the preferred host, so once she’s available to Palpatine, he’s more interested. (Implicitly, if you like, Kylo’s less innately powerful because he’s third generation.)
The idea behind that is he would be convinced Rey is his strongest heir, anyway. The only reason it needs to be worded that way is because we’re trying to reconcile the idea that he initially wanted Rey dead in this movie with the idea of her being his preferred candidate the whole time. So think of it like this, he wouldn’t tell Kylo - “Hey bud, I need you to go get yourself killed by Rey so she can tap into the dark side again.” He’d say what he told him as motivation - “Go on and try to kill her, end the Jedi, and maybe you have a chance of being what Vader could not be (Offscreen: but I doubt it, in all likelihood my chosen heir Rey is going to kill you in anger, so I win either way here).”
The reason he’d say “The princess of Alderaan has disrupted my plan” is because he intended for Kylo’s death to cement Rey in the dark side, but instead Rey healed him and Ben returned.
EDIT: Alternatively, I could make this idea that he wants Rey more apparent and have Kylo’s role as a failsafe less apparent - “I know Palpatine only wants me to try and kill you so that you give in to the dark side.” But this just raises questions about how he knows Rey is his “chosen heir” over himself to begin with.
Hmmm. I do think removing Rey’s parents from as much as possible generally seems to smooth things over nicely. Whereas TLJ is about revealing their devastating ordinariness, this movie should be about showcasing Rey’s own extraordinariness:
“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. I know the darkness that lives in you, Rey…”
“You’re lying.”
“I’d never lie to you. Your parents were no one. Junk traders expecting a child they never wanted.”
“Don’t!”
“Your parents, Rey… they had no part in your conception…”
“I don’t want this!”
“…just like Vader.”
“No!”
“You’ve seen it, haven’t you? Your destiny.”
(Rey sees the vision of herself on the Sith throne)
“Luke saw the same fate in me. But you and I don’t want it.”
“Stop talking.”
“Why? I know you better than anyone else.”
(Cutaway to heroes capture)
“Palpatine knew your true potential… your power. The first time we fought, in the forest, the darkness inside of you awakened. You revealed yourself to the Emperor that day… just as he intended.”
(Visions of Rey beating Kylo on Starkiller, falling into the dark cave, etc.)
“No!”
(The mask of Vader falls to the ground)
“So that’s where you are.”
“Before your Jedi path, Palpatine wanted you alive. I’ll come tell you why.”
“Rey… I know the rest of our story.”
“Tell me.”
"The Emperor manipulated the Force itself into creating life. My grandfather, and then you. You’re his chosen heir… a rightful Palpatine.”
"The Emperor wants us to fight each other so his strongest heir may claim the throne. He hasn’t realized the depth of our connection, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but shared power in the Force. We’ll end him and the Sith, and create a new order, together…”
(I’ve opted to remove “finish what Vader started” only because it’s a matter of interpretation whether Vader wanted to end the Sith or merely take on Luke as a Sith apprentice. As for the reference to the dyad, this would come from Palpatine later on since I don’t want him to start giving Rey a vocab lesson. He could know what the dyad is at this moment, but it’s better if he doesn’t mention that word specifically.)
“What are you most afraid of?”
“Myself.”
“Because you’re a Palpatine. Leia knew you shared the same struggle as her.”
“She never told me. She still trained me.”
“Because she saw your spirit. Your heart. Rey… some things are stronger than blood. Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi…”
“She was quick to learn in our training. But Leia feared the darkness that had lived in our father, and lived on in us. She surrendered her saber to me and said that one day it would be picked up again…by someone with the strength to overcome that darkness.”
So, at this rate, this edit would use Rey Nobody as a base (except for when she confronts Palps). This would be the most TLJ-friendly version of Rey Palpatine. But I’d want to mirror that shot of BB-8 because it would trigger me otherwise lol. It doesn’t even make much sense the way it’s currently implemented since the camera would be inside of the wall of the Falcon, and the other side of the room is too close. Mirroring the clip remedies both issues.
Ah, I see, they grabbed a shot of BB-8 from their first conversation on Ochi’s ship to split it. Although now I’m never gonna be able to unsee the fact that it’s a completely re-used shot lol. The Falcon doesn’t have cobwebs, either. If it could be removed from the first place then I guess I might be fine with it.
EDIT: Alternatively, the brief Chewie and Poe scene could be placed between their conversation. But that feels kinda weird from my testing. Mirroring the shot seems to do pretty good to distinguish it, contrary to what I initially expected.
I don’t think promising to finish what Vader started is going to appeal to Rey that much.
That’s the point. She wants to take Ben’s hand, not Kylo Ren’s hand. Even after everything he’s learned, he’s still pushing his same old perspective. If we make his offer too reasonable, the audience won’t like that she doesn’t accept it. This has always bugged me about Ascendant v4. With the removal of “And take the throne”, it desperately needs a line like “And take his fleet” to make it clear his intentions are still sinister while wanting Palpatine to die.
EDIT: Also worth considering that we’re going to be modifying their prior conversation so Kylo is focusing on how alike she is to Vader, anyhow. Most of their prior conversation takes place with Vader’s mask looming behind them. It makes sense narratively to include such a reference.
Oh, and like I said, there’s no way to seamlessly edit around “He (Palpatine) killed my mother and my father” so we have to include them in some way.
I guess I’m still confused what exactly it is you intend for her parents? If we tie in the Lor San Tekka village stuff, then we end up having to dedicate that large paragraph of info to them. Which may be best to dedicate to something else. This hypothetical draft would end up looking pretty close to what I had a few days ago.
Perhaps her outright tendency toward the dark will be touched on in the next film in a more compelling way?
I dunno, I guess I’m fine with Rey having the same propensity for both dark and light as the Skywalkers because at least it means they quite literally live on in more than just name. But then we have to rotate back to her just being his “chosen heir” and “a rightful Palpatine” because anything other than that doesn’t make sense in the context of the Skywalkers being no different than her. And as I stated previously, it diminishes the stakes in her confrontation with Palpatine.
Then again, it does make her and Leia’s relationship incredibly touching since Luke’s conversation with her could go as follows:
“What are you most afraid of?”
“Myself.”
“Because you’re a Palpatine. Leia knew you shared her same struggle.”
“She never told me. She still trained me.”
“Because she saw your spirit. Your heart. Rey… some things are stronger than blood. Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi…”
Then we’d see how Leia struggled with the same dark instincts as Rey in the flashback with Luke which caused her to abandon her Jedi path. But, again, I don’t buy that she’d ever even consider striking down Palps after such a compelling conversation like this. The only way that makes sense is if she sees no other way to defeat him.
I’d personally prefer to make their struggles with the dark distinct so that we don’t already know if this is something she can overcome. Otherwise, we completely remove the stakes of her confrontation with Palpatine at the end. It also opens the door for people to dismiss what Kylo says about the Skywalker bloodline specifically as a lie from Palpatine to manipulate him, if that is what they wish. Luke only really has the opportunity to talk about Rey’s own background in his scenes anyway, and how Leia knew something about it, given what we have to work with.
I liked my approach of having the Skywalker bloodline be 50% light and 50% dark, but Palpatine still initiated Anakin’s conception. They are quite literally the “balance” of the Force itself, because they are an unaltered creation of it. It works as a prototype, if you will, that he would initiate, see as flawed, and seek to “improve”. So with Rey, he figures out how to impart his own nature onto a Force-created being. A spiritual “Palpatine”. She is more susceptible to the dark side than the Skywalkers. All of this lines up with canon, and it needn’t be mentioned ever again after this point. The point of this revelation is to make you watch the previous movies again with this altered perspective, NOT to see what comes next in canon for the Skywalkers. We already know Anakin, Luke, Leia, and Ben all have a great propensity for both the light and the dark and will continue to going forward in canon. Hell, Anakin’s life was literally spent 50% as a Skywalker and 50% as a Sith. In Rey’s upcoming movie, her continued struggle with the dark side as a “Palpatine” will almost certainly be touched on at some point. It’s important that this wouldn’t simply be a retread of the Skywalkers, whom according to you we should be moving away from. So we have to make it exceedingly clear exactly how they are different (greater draw to the dark side), while also similar (both a product of the Force itself, at the request of the Emperor).
No offense, but that actually isn’t the issue we’re currently having. We’re trying to figure out if it’s worth talking about what happens to her parents if they are indeed bad. I personally think we have to because of Rey’s scene with Finn immediately after all these reveals. Plus, if we kept “Weak, like your parents” that implies some sort of familiarity Palps has with them and their antics.
I do agree that the other idea makes more sense in terms of where the conversation was leading and also what makes sense for Palpatine himself to do. Granted, there’s no reason he couldn’t get impatient and want to find Rey and her parents before she taps into the dark side.
I don’t disagree. The trouble is that scene with Finn clearly has Rey say “He killed my mother and my father” and there isn’t a way to cut around that because it’s all in one shot beginning with Finn leaning over to grab something.
I’m not sure how we could even navigate the scene between her and Finn without mentioning what Palps did to her parents. The concern I personally have with not mentioning Anakin’s part in all this is that we make a direct comparison between the two at the beginning. Even without that there, most people will assume Palpatine created Anakin, too, purely based off of the similarities in their births and unconfirmed nature of this topic in the films themselves. Which creates concerning incest vibes regardless. So the way I see it, there really is no middle ground here. Either: 1. Anakin was created by the light, manipulated to the dark, redeemed, and all his descendants proceeded to give in to their unusually dark nature, or 2. Anakin always had a conflicted mind (perhaps 50% dark, 50% light - balanced), was redeemed, but his descendants still needed to fight their own inner conflict:
“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. Your nature is the dark side, Rey…”
“You’re lying.”
“I’d never lie to you… your parents were no one. Junk traders expecting a child they never planned for.”
“Don’t!”
“Your father had no part in your conception.”
“I don’t want this!”
“…just like Vader.”
“No!”
“You see it, too, don’t you? The throne.”
(Rey sees a flash of the vision of herself on the Sith throne)
“Your parents feared you. The same way Luke feared me.”
“Stop talking.”
“But they never knew you like I do.”
(Cutaway to heroes capture)
“Your parents were always drunk, especially so when they sold you. Palpatine’s followers had your parents taken. He was looking for you, but they couldn’t even remember what happened to you. They died to ensure you never saw a second chance at love."
(Brief shots of Ochi brandishing his blade - not their deaths because it shows them as too sympathetic)
“No!”
(The mask of Vader falls to the ground)
“So that’s where you are.”
“Before your Jedi path, Palpatine wanted you alive. I’ll come tell you why.”
“Rey… I know the rest of our story.”
“Tell me.”
“The Emperor manipulated the Force itself into creating life. My grandfather proved too balanced. So he gave you his own nature. You… are a Palpatine.”
"The Emperor wants us to fight each other so his strongest heir may claim the throne. He hasn’t realized the depth of our connection, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but shared power in the Force. We’ll kill him, and finish what Vader started, together…”
(This way he’s not giving Rey a vocab lesson in the middle of his proposal. We’ll save that for Palpatine to define since he’s known to do that sort of thing. We have to refer to “the Force” instead of the “dark side” because the midichlorians don’t pick sides of the Force.)
In an edit like this, the implication is that when the Force created this life on Palpatine’s behalf it was placed in a random woman across the galaxy. In Anakin’s case, he got lucky with a loving mother. But with Rey, we get to see what happens with the opposite; an abusive mother and step-father.
As for why Palpatine cannot extract Rey’s location from their minds, it’s literally because they cannot remember even selling her in the first place because of how drunk they were at the time and continue to be. I’d be willing to experiment with alternative wording for this. But we should probably keep “Weak, like your parents” and simply remove Rey’s response to this comment as what he’s stating is a compelling argument for why Rey should kill him instead of being an insult.
Ehhh. I just remembered that the scene immediately after this has Rey lamenting the fact that Palpatine killed her parents and that she wants revenge. I’m leaning more towards the good parents approach, which I’ll hide below:
“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. The dark side is in your nature, Rey…”
“You’re lying.”
“You were right… your parents were no one. But your mother’s pregnancy began suddenly, before your father.”
“Don’t!”
“You are so much like my grandfather. So like Darth Vader….”
“I don’t want this!”
“…destined for darkness.”
“No!”
“Your parents were hunted across the galaxy.”
(Rey sees the vision of her parents and her abandonment.)
“They paid for your protection…in more than one way.”
“Stop talking.”
“Rey… I learned what happened to them.”
(Cutaway to heroes capture)
“Your parents heard rumors of a hidden settlement, a sanctuary of the Force, on Jakku. They searched the desert for further help. But an agent of the Emperor tracked their stolen ship.”
(Rey sees her parents get killed and the mask of Vader falls to the ground.)
“So that’s where you are.”
“Before you chose the Jedi, Palpatine wanted you. I’ll come tell you why.”
—
“Why did the Emperor come for me?”
"Because he manipulated the Force itself into creating life. My grandfather. Then, perfected in darkness with you. You’re his chosen heir… a rightful Palpatine.”
"The Emperor only wants us to fight each other so his strongest heir may take the throne. But he’s unaware that we’re a dyad in the Force, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but shared power. We’ll kill him, and finish what Vader started, together…”
EDIT: Alternatively, Rey is just suffering the effects of having abusive parents in that scene with Finn. She still thinks that if they’d had more time alive without Palpatine killing them they would have changed their ways and come back to rescue her and love her, like my line in my previous post suggests. It would explain why, too, that she doesn’t seem to care that Ben Solo, who she loves, abused her as Kylo Ren. The only concept of love she grew up with was mixed with abuse. Which to be clear, doesn’t make any of it right or correct, but it makes sense at least. Thus why Finn says none of this sounds like her.
Something like the following, probably:
“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. The dark side is in your nature, Rey…”
“You’re lying.”
“I’d never lie to you… your parents were no one. Junk traders expecting a child they never planned for.”
“Don’t!”
“Your father had no part in your conception.”
“I don’t want this!”
“…just like Vader.”
“No!”
“You see it, too, don’t you? The throne.”
(Rey sees a flash of the vision of herself on the Sith throne)
“Your family feared you. Just like mine did for me.”
“Stop talking.”
“Rey… our parents abandoned us to murderers.”
(Cutaway to heroes capture)
“Your parents were always drunk, especially so when they sold you. Palpatine’s followers captured them. He was looking for you, but they couldn’t even remember what happened to you. They died to ensure you never saw a second chance at love.”
(SOME SORT OF VISUAL HERE)
“No!”
(The mask of Vader falls to the ground)
“So that’s where you are.”
“Before you chose the Jedi, Palpatine wanted you. I’ll come tell you why.”
—
“Why did the Emperor come for me?”
"Because he manipulated the Force itself into creating life. My grandfather. Then, perfected in darkness with you. You’re his chosen heir… a rightful Palpatine.”
"The Emperor only wants us to fight each other so his strongest heir may take the throne. But he’s unaware that we’re a dyad in the Force, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but shared power. We’ll kill him, and finish what Vader started, together…”
I still think a second vision of some sort might be welcome there. There’s two (unconnectable) shots of Rey with her parent’s death vision sandwiched in the middle. Now, yes, technically you could just cut the first of those shots with Rey and skip to the second one where she reacts, but I’m unsure how this would affect the pacing of the scene.
It could definitely work, under the following conditions:
How about this instead:
"Because he manipulated the Force itself to create life. My grandfather. Then, perfected in darkness with you. You’re his chosen heir… a Palpatine.”
"The Emperor told me to fight you so his strongest heir takes the throne. But he’s unaware that we’re a dyad in the Force, Rey… a bond, not of shared blood, but power. We’ll kill him, and finish what Vader started, together…”
This way it’s up to interpretation whether Anakin’s bloodline was even infused with that extra dose of the dark side compared to the average Force-user, giving more significance to Rey’s own origin. I think you mentioned earlier that Rey doesn’t use the dark side as much as Anakin, and this just isn’t true. Especially with Starlight, her whole journey in that movie is her tapping more and more into the dark side until going full Sith-eyes on Kylo. Meanwhile, Anakin in TPM is super innocent. In TLJ, she goes “straight to the dark” in search of answers multiple times. Her fight with the Praetorian guards is extremely aggressive. She also summons Force lightning without any training whatsoever in this movie. The only way that last part is even remotely possible if she is literally supercharged with the dark side of the Force.
Arguably, Kylo wants the same thing that Vader always wanted. Vader wanted to rule the galaxy as family (father and son), and end the Sith with Palpatine. Vader absolutely hated Sidious.
They don’t destroy his mask, either, just the pedestal it’s on unintentionally. I’d say the fact that he’s keeping Vader’s mask prominently in his quarters as well as reforging his mask from TFA indicates that he does still want to finish what Vader started. Many people just assume that what he states in TLJ was him dismissing Vader’s legacy, but ironically what he is describing in that scene is EXACTLY what Vader sought, after killing his master no less (what Vader always wanted). He wanted to rule the galaxy with his wife and children, Sith and Jedi be damned. Trust me, watch Anakin talking to Padme on Mustafar and then this scene from TLJ. And we get to confirm this correlation in this film, especially if we replaced “and create a new order, together” with “and finish what Vader started, together” as the final line.
With my previous draft, her journey would be different in that she is the one claimed by Palpatine as his own due to the fact that he “perfected” the method of creating dark life through the Force with her. So, take whatever evil predisposition Kylo has in him, and multiply that by whatever factor you deem fit.
That being said, the only way your approach works is if Kylo simply avoids talking about the Skywalker’s family origin at all - leaving it entirely up to the viewer’s interpretation whether Palpatine did the same thing with Anakin that he does with Rey. But this also removes the parallels that you mentioned, and makes the dyad forming between them less interesting in principle. There just wouldn’t be a lot to talk about in the second paragraph there.
I dunno, I’ve heard that many people didn’t like Vader being revealed as Luke’s father when ESB first came out. I think a lot of people voicing their distaste for the idea that BOTH bloodlines were created to be dark are experiencing a similar phenomenon. Once again, I’d like to make it clear that just because Palpatine’s machinations led to the creation of somebody who is dark-natured, that doesn’t mean that the Force itself can’t later choose that person after the fact to bring balance. I think that’s what makes this idea so powerful. You can take somebody that was meant to cause so much evil, and through fate have them overcome that and bring about good and balance. It’s also hilariously ironic in that Palpatine meant to create the ultimate Sith Lord twice in a row, but both times their spirit/heart overcomes their evil nature and kill him.
EDIT: Hell, the reason Palpatine created a girl the second time is probably because he’s a sexist and thinks she’d be a pushover to his will. It’s all just really funny to me how much what he intends blows up in his face (literally).