Jar Jar Bricks

Yeah, I’ve made wayyyy to many posts in this thread over the past week so I don’t blame you for missing it. But this is just going to be an Ascendant+ edit now. The only difference in Rey’s backstory will be that Palpatine didn’t know she existed while he was hunting for his escapee “son” (because let’s be honest, why SHOULD he know about a young child - she was presumably born on Jakku). He hunts down Rey’s father, they hide her with Unkar out of desperation to keep her a secret, Palps finds out his son cannot use the Force (as the novelization states) and orders him terminated. But Ochi has a vision of Rey when he kills Rey’s father. So he was on his way back to Exegol to show Palpatine the dagger’s vision before he gets trapped in the sand cave.

This makes Ochi’s actions actually make sense. Previously, he doesn’t think to search around Niima Outpost for Rey before blasting off in his ship with her parents. Or notice the fact that his primary target is screaming on the surface below. But if he doesn’t know that he’s even looking for a young girl, just a grown clone of Palpatine, then all of this makes sense. It also allows Palpatine to claim that he never wanted her dead, because he never takes any direct action against her. Sure, he sent Kylo after her, but he could argue he knew that Rey would kill him and become stronger. Whereas a young child Rey wouldn’t be able to defend herself against a Sith assassin.

I do think it kinda works better if he’s trying to put them at odds with one another rather than join together. Only one can become “all the Sith” by inheriting his spirit. Especially because Rey’s vision can only possibly show Daisy on the throne, not along with Kylo. Even though they refer to such a thing in the original film, no such footage exists.

So it’s probably best to stick with the idea that only the strongest bloodline can take the throne. How exactly Palpatine’s dialogue could convey that in this scene without spoiling Rey’s heritage early is possibly worth considering.

Yup. It’s just easier to head cannon that the atmosphere on Exegol was so complicated to navigate that if a ship gets too large it can’t rise up on its own or it would get disintegrated by lightning. But if there are ton of massive ships rising at once then they take the heat off each other.

Yes, you’re correct. The only reason why I have a problem with the concept is that it would have made more sense to launch like 10+ of them at that time - there are literally hundreds of them there (perhaps in the thousands) and it’s not like all of them were fixed overnight. They could have launched a small batallion and threatened to destroy key worlds like Coruscant if people tried to stop the rest.

Yeah, but then you have to explain how the heck a single Final Order ship was able to leave Exegol without the rest of them.

Hal, I’m not an expert editor, but I’m pretty sure the scene could start with the shot which is on Poe and Rose says something along the lines of: “It’s on every channel!” In the background.

I’ll probably end up doing this:

“He learned of a little girl he was supposed to take from Jakku, to the Emperor. The dagger exposed Rey."

This then explains why he’s going back to Exegol even if he already has a direct line of communication with Palpatine to transmit this news through (as evidenced by him getting the order to kill her father).

If it’s just the dagger giving Ochi visions of a girl on Jakku after killing her parents, then the Emperor would need to hold it himself to verify the nature of all of it as fact. But when Ochi never returns, he is left to assume that his granddaughter really does exist, especially after sensing her in TFA/TLJ.

As I stated on the Ascendant thread, this then blends harmoniously with a new Kylo line to Rey along the lines of: “The dagger showed you what happened to your parents, didn’t it?” So the dagger acts as a sort of family tracking agent upon coming in contact with somebody’s biological material. When Rey picks it up, she is shown the final moments of her parents. When Ochi stabs her father, he is shown his daughter.

Hal 9000 said:

• Undetermined about a potential line for Kylo to suggest that the dagger “revealed” to Rey her parents’ fate at the hands of Ochi, to support our change for the dagger to be a mystical revelatory device rather than Rey sensing “horrible things” it has done.

I’d love to take a look at this because it would coincide quite nicely with an idea I have going on in the other thread - the dagger being capable of revealing secrets to people.

Any ideas for what this line would look like and where it would be placed?

As an aside, were you able to take a look at reinstating that brief Poe and Rose scene, Hal? The one where it’s revealed that Leia chose Poe specifically to be the new general. I think that’s essential to reinstate seeing as how Leia probably knows about Poe’s spice smuggling days. It ties in with the whole compassion theme surrounding her character and investing in more unconventional people.

Yes, that is what this is now. Stuff that might take skeptics out of the movie, but casual fans really wouldn’t bat an eye at.

As for the Poe and Finn scene, I think I’ve solved it:

“He was going to Exegol with Ochi of Bestoon.”

“Why was Ochi going there?”

“He learned of a little girl he was supposed to take from Jakku, to the Emperor.”

This definitely doesn’t conflict with anything, as even if Ochi learned about Rey somehow shortly after murdering her parents (perhaps the dagger showed him this?) he then proceeds to die in the sinking fields, so the secret stays buried with him.

The other thing is that this makes WAY more sense than Ascendant. If Ochi knew he was supposed to take Rey from Jakku, then why the heck was he going back to Exegol with D-0, like Finn is saying? That doesn’t make any sense. But if he just learned about her, then it makes sense he’d need to go back to Exegol to report this recent development to Palpatine before proceeding with anything.

EDIT: Heck, I could even fill in some of the empty ADR space that Ascendant leaves us to make this idea more clear - “He learned of a little girl he was supposed to take from Jakku, to the Emperor. He needed new orders.”

Oh, and I should clarify that the reason I think this Rey background change necessary is because in order to fit in the Vader duel and Luke scene I have to remove 2 instances of Palpatine reminding Kylo and the audience that he wants her dead. At that point, it’s best to just play into the idea that there is some level of truth to him never wanting her dead.

Immediately after Palpatine reveals her true nature to Kylo, the audience can assume that Palps tells Kylo that should he fail in killing Rey, that she will kill him instead and inherit what he could have had. This is reflected in another updated Kylo line: “Palpatine wants us to fight” instead of “Palpatine wants you dead.”

So the premise is that Palpatine wants them to fight each other so the strongest bloodline becomes his heir. Granted, this will never be explicitly stated since I have no intentions of further modifying Kylo’s reveal scene for this edit.

That would take me out of both of those respective scenes. I think it’s gotta be a voice for 2 reasons:

1. Dispell the notion that Palps is literally every voice in his head. It’s just him manipulating Kylo.
2. If he ever took a corporeal form then Kylo would certainly try to attack him, or at the very least try to shoo him away, even if that wouldn’t do anything. With just the voice, he’s more powerless.

I think the concept I’ve got in my thread works because it’s just after a devastating moment: Chewie’s “death”. We’ve just seen Rey’s reaction to that. It makes sense, structurally, to then watch Kylo battling with his conscience after such a thing (at least, that’s what the audience is meant to believe in that moment). I can think of no better candidate for him to have such a conversation with in that time than Luke.

Ultimately, this idea isn’t going to be in this edit. That’s fine. We can drop it. I’m gonna make sure it’s given proper attention in my thread.

I’ve decided to overhaul this thread into being only a Special Edition of Ascendant. I know there will inevitably be some questions.

The reason I’m doing this is because the original premise behind this edit already bordered between breaking canon and not, so I think I’d be more comfortable remaining within more solid territory. Furthermore, no matter which way I tried to execute this idea, there was always this feeling of things bordering on incest and every single character being related to each other in this entire saga. For example, Leia would have like 4 different possible last names - Organa, Solo, Skywalker, Palpatine.

I’m trying to avoid some of this goofiness.

Instead, this edit will simply be taking the approach of making Rey Palpatine a little less stupid, as well as introducing the Kylo versus Vader fight and the Luke reaching out to Kylo scene. The main way this will be accomplished is by removing Palpatine even knowing about Rey as a child. Instead, he will simply be going after Rey’s father, his “son”. This clears up a lot of Ochi’s questionable antics, like being unable to find Rey and killing the only people who might know where she is. Here is the dialogue I’m currently considering:

Kylo: “It was Palpatine who had your parents taken. Your father had escaped him. But he soon learned your father was a powerless failure. So he gave the order.”

Kylo: “You know why you were kept a secret.”

Rey (unaltered): “No.”

Kylo (unaltered): “I’ll come tell you.”

And later…

Kylo: “I know how Palpatine discovered you…”

Rey: “Tell me.”

Kylo (unaltered): “Because he saw what you would become. You don’t just have power. You have his power…”

Here is the sequence of events:
Palpatine’s son escapes Exegol -> Palpatine sends Ochi to find him -> His son finds a partner and has Rey -> Rey’s parents pay for her to be watched by Unkar Plutt because Ochi has just found out where they live -> Ochi captures them and flies off, leaving Rey behind -> Palpatine finds out her father doesn’t have the Force -> Ochi kills Rey’s parents since they’re useless to him -> Palpatine has a vision of Rey at some point, discovering her existence

The only problem with this idea is a later exchange between Finn and Poe. I’ll need some help brainstorming around this. Most of the lines are spoken on-screen, so AI lines are somewhat out as a solution.

Finn: “He was going to Exegol with Ochi of Bestoon.”

Poe: “Why was Ochi going there?”

Finn: “To bring the little girl he was supposed to take from Jakku to the Emperor. He wanted her alive.”

Sorry for the double post, but I thought it was worth sharing this exchange from AOTC here:

Padme: “Are you allowed to love? I thought that was forbidden for a Jedi.”

Anakin: “Attachment is forbidden. Possession is forbidden. Compassion, which I would define as unconditional love, is essential to a Jedi’s life. So you might say, that we are encouraged to love.”

I think compassion is the best trait to emphasize because Rey ultimately chooses to become a Jedi. And it also demonstrates that, despite leaving the Jedi path, the lessons Leia learned from her training benefitted her for the rest of her life and impacted her journey significantly.

There’s also the mythological archetype of the nurturing mother whose love and guidance are crucial to the hero’s journey. Which is what I’m trying to shoot for here.

In my own thread, I’ve attached the concept of love to Vader saving Luke, and Ben saving the life of Rey. So more of a sacrificial thing going on there.

That’s why I ended up dropping it. I understand these films are supposed to be for 12 year olds but I thought that was a bit heavy-handed even for them.

Here’s what Google AI said:

Compassion is a feeling of empathy and understanding. It’s a selfless action that involves forgiving others and feeling their pain. Compassion is also the motivation to reduce suffering, not because it’s aversive, but because it has a loving motivation to end it.
Love is about treating others with kindness and care. It’s wanting others to have happiness. Love is often selfless, but it can also be selfish

I guess you’re right that love in a generic sense can be applied to Rey and co., visualized by the group hug at the end and Reylo kiss. But my thinking was that compassion is what is always shown by Leia to both Kylo and Rey. Kylo definitely doesn’t deserve it, but she realizes he’s in pain over everything he’s done. Leia could also have every right to hate Rey because her grandfather caused so much suffering in her life. Ya know, destroying her homeworld. She could refuse to train her. Instead, she noticed how pure of heart she is and how devastated she was by that vision. She wants both of them to be free of their suffering, in a motherly sort of way.

I think it all goes back to the sand serpent scene. Rey certainly doesn’t have love for it, per se, but she is showing compassion because she understands it’s been hurt and just wants it to feel better. Which ultimately leads to the serpent being her friend and showing them the way out.

Yes, that would have to be done the same way I’m currently pursuing it on my thread.

I’m considering changing my thread to simply be a Special Edition of Ascendant that has the Kylo v Vader duel, Luke and Kylo convo, and other little things I recommended here which might not have made it into the final product. But it would still be Rey Palpatine.

I’m really loving the idea of Leia knowing about Rey’s heritage, and I don’t think any other Rey heritage/background idea really touches those same heartstrings. So I’ve kinda come around to it, tbh.

Turns out I don’t have a lot to do this week so I decided to put together a test of the big paragraph. I had to cut it off abruptly before the part about Leia’s legacy guiding her on Exegol because Ascendant v4 isn’t edited to accommodate for that yet:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1s4sKRL0aG50yIHTo4XKWHo77rYjpw9gv/view?usp=sharing

I’m not sure there would be enough room for the original line of “Leia knew it, too” without it all feeling too congested. Also, the training we witness Rey doing (for obvious reasons) is without Leia present, so I think “Leia sensed it as she trained you” works well to clarify that isn’t normally the case. After all, Leia would need to be observing her very closely to sense such a thing.

It would definitely be cool if “We’ll always be with you” could fit over the X-wing lift scene. I don’t see any particular reason why the original line couldn’t suffice here, but worst case scenario another AI line could say the same thing.

As for the main paragraph, I’ll get to it at some point this week. Honestly, it just boggles my mind that the original film, instead of talking about Leia’s character and legacy, decides to introduce not 1 but 2 prophecies given by her that spoil the end of the movie (Ben dies and Rey finishes Leia’s Jedi path by killing Palpatine). What we’ve got here not only honors the character’s legacy but also ties her in with the themes of the movie and Rey’s own journey.

I’d say that passion has too much of a positive connotation. I think we should remain within the thematic language already present in this film (and the saga in general). Compassion literally translates as “to suffer with” and I think that’s the perfect way to describe Leia’s approach in life. Even way back in the original Star Wars she was the first one to offer Luke some consolation after Ben’s death. “Empathy” sounds a bit too modern and psychological to me. It’s probably best to remain with this more grounded language.

I really like DZ’s shorter/edited one. I’d just add on the “over hatred” part so it’s a little more clear that their mother’s path is to compassion as their father’s path was to hatred. I think it clears up the sentence structure and just lets things flow a bit better.

Here are a couple of tests to illustrate what I was talking about in my last post:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1dLI9swXfR-v8wreY-X7tlOnO1n3imMgS?usp=sharing

I’m still working out the exact wording of the Luke flashback dialogue, but I’m imagining something like this in its entirety:

“She was quick to learn in our training. But Leia feared giving in to hatred like our father, choosing instead to follow our mother’s path. Leia lost everything in her life, and everyone, yet she still chose compassion over hatred. A thousand generations live in you now. But this is your fight. Let Leia’s legacy guide you on Exegol.”

My intention here is to indicate that confronting her fear is what Leia should have done all along (remaining a Jedi), because she was an expert at resisting the allure of hatred due to her nature of showing compassion for others. Rey has that same capability within her. So Rey has to face her fear of giving in to hatred like her grandfather. This is what she says to his face later on: “All you want is for me to hate, but I won’t. Not even you.” She then proceeds to choose compassion (aka Ben, Leia’s legacy) over hatred (killing Palps and becoming Empress).

EDIT: One other thing worth noting is that Rey’s own parents would take the place of Padme in the mirroring between Rey and Leia’s character journeys. They both look to other relatives they have that weren’t massive d-bags and were loving for inspiration. In Leia’s case, she pursues politics because she wants to ensure she upholds Padme’s values. In Rey’s case, she talks about how her parents were strong because they sacrificed themselves to save her from Palpy. So Rey is likewise willing to sacrifice her own life to save her friends from Palps. Which gets cancelled out in the end by Ben’s own sacrifice, but that’s besides the point. The point is that Rey’s parents being good would no longer diminish Rey’s own struggle with the dark side, but enhance it because she’s directly following Leia’s example.

Remind me, did we already decide on if Leia’s “Come home” line was going to be incorporated? And also this test right here could bring more life to her character

Luke’s dialogue over the Leia flashback may also need some minor adjustments if we are able to nail down your first bullet point. At the very least, I’d recommend making the following change - adjust the order of the lines Luke gives Rey immediately after the flashback.

This is the way we currently have it - “A thousand generations live in you, now. We’ll always be with you. But this is your fight.”

This is the way it should be to avoid the clunky feeling it currently has - "A thousand generations live in you now. (Staying onscreen with Luke) But this is your fight. Some sort of line here that replaces “You’ll take both sabers to Exegol” This way we avoid a slow-mo effect on the shot of Rey.

EDIT: Lines I’d recommend for that spot - “Leia’s legacy will guide you on Exegol” or something generic like “Leia believed in your strength” / “A fight you can still win.”

Nah, I do think Finn being Force-sensitive in canon is inevitably going to pop up in the Rey movie. Laying the seeds for it in TROS is necessary for that reason. But they missed the mark with what they ended up doing.

In my head canon, Pryde has a ship identical to the rest, however it has that signal carrier tech built in and other special functionality since he’s general of the fleet. My head canon is also that the civilian fleet destroyed the cell tower from the air. What we really need is a VFX shot depicting that for immediately after Pryde blows up. I’d have also depicted Finn starting to tap into the Force as he fights the Sith troopers with Jannah. And then later on, the Falcon wouldnt be able to get close enough to the falling Destroyer, but Finn uses the Force to jump extra far and launch Jannah to safety. Stuff like that would have been epic.

For the purposes of your edit, however, you could definitely remove Finn’s Force-sensitivity. That’s why I made my last comment. I was merely pointing out that, due to their stupid decisions, it’s feasible. It’s up to you if you want to pursue that.

BrotherOfSasquatch said:

This might be a Mandela effect thing going on but doesn’t he already have teary eyes/is crying during this scene?

Nope, that’s on Mustafar as he’s staring out at the magma fields.

Yeah I’ve been trying to weave around that line but you’ve finally given me the motivation to just consider it deleted. The thing is that it still works on the context of Palpatine goading her: “It is your birthright to rule. Here. It is in your blood.”

“Our blood” would be removed. Then again, this specific line is said from a great distance, so I could always replace it with something else such as “I designed you to rule. Here. It is your only purpose.”

sherlockpotter said:

Effectively, it’s referenced two times in the movie: once, when they can’t find the beacon thingy on Exegol (“How do you know it’s on that ship?” “A feeling.”); and once more, when Rey dies, so that Finn can “sense” it and react to it (“Rey…”).

Funny thing about this… apparently he just recognized the fact that it was the only non-Imperial Star Destroyer. He recognized it was made by the First Order. Apparently Pryde is on board Kylo’s Star Destroyer (the same one the gang raids earlier) that he brought to Exegol. This is the canon answer, in the novelization. I believe you can even tell the visual differences in the film. So Finn definitely didn’t need the Force to identify it, for what it’s worth.

EDIT: The reason why I think they needed to do this, plot-wise, was to both explain why Pryde was able to guide the ships out and also explain why they couldn’t just switch the signal to another Final Order Star Destroyer once his ship exploded. Apparently Palpatine instructed Pryde to modify Kylo’s destroyer with this special capability behind Kylo’s back. The other Final Order Star Destroyers don’t have this special signal carrier tech. Then again, this still doesn’t explain why the Final Order couldn’t just switch back to the radio tower when Pryde’s ship blew up. I think the Resistance probably should have blown it up as well to clear up that plot hole.

Here’s the current status of the Ahch-To dialogue:

R: “I saw myself on the dark throne. I won’t let it happen. I’m doing what you did.”

L: “I was wrong. Pushing Ben toward that throne was my greatest fear. What are you most afraid of?”

R: “Myself.”

L: “Because you’re a Palpatine? Nobody can claim those the Force made. Only you can choose your belonging. Some things are stronger than blood. Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny. If you don’t face Palpatine, it will mean the end of the Jedi. And the war will be lost… There’s something my sister would want you to have.”

R: “Leia’s saber.”

L: “She was quick to learn in our training. But Leia feared the darkness in our father, choosing instead to follow our mother’s path. She surrendered her saber to me, and said it would be picked up again, by somebody with the spirit to face that darkness. A thousand generations live in you now, but this is your fight. You will restore balance.”

R: “I can’t get there. I don’t have the Wayfinder. I destroyed Ren’s ship.”

L: “You have everything you need.”

EDIT: An alternative to make things less ambiguous would be:
“Because you’re a Palpatine? The Force chose you, Rey, just as it chose my father. To bring balance to the Force. Some things are stronger than blood…”
But then there’s less character agency and it’s not clear if the Force alone made them (although maybe the second part is a good thing, I’m not sure).

Yes, and that is still the concept of this edit if you want to see it that way. Palpatine is manipulating Kylo and Rey to believe that they belong to him. Ultimately, it’s my intention that Anakin and Rey were simply made by the Force to bring balance, which justifies Rey exponentially in taking the Skywalker name. That’s why this is called the “Chosen One” edit and not the “All Skywalkers are Palpatine’s” edit. Now, if some people still want to argue that Palpatine may have had a hand in both, that’s completely fine. But that’s not the conclusion Rey comes to in the end of the movie. In fact, Palpatine admits she’s “nothing” and “a scavenger girl” once she turns on him.

Ultimately, what will make or break this edit is my dialogue for Luke. It needs to effectively convey that being afraid that they all belong to Palpatine is a fruitless endeavor. It’s like asking which came first, the chicken or the egg? In this case, the answer to that question doesn’t matter, because the Force still made their bloodlines, and they belong to the Force. It doesn’t matter even if Palpatine jumpstarted them. They are people with their own free will. They just have to choose to uphold the prophecy that was made so long ago about them.

I think movies that have such grey territory like this are the best ones. It’s not interesting anymore for a plot twist / revelation to simply be that you are the descendant of somebody. We need to start asking more philosophical questions, like whether the actions and claims of others define us or if we make that decision ourselves.