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JakeRyan17

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19-May-2020
Last activity
31-May-2021
Posts
867

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Post
#1429724
Topic
<strong>Star Wars: The Bad Batch</strong> (animated series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

That’s a more fair criticism, but I do see this family dynamic as being different enough— especially as Omega can talk and has agency in what’s going on. She has her own goals and character development separate from the Batch, whereas Grogu is effectively an infant.

To me, it makes a lot more sense to compare her to Ahsoka or even more so Ezra (with a large found family), but without being Force-sensitive.

Post
#1429684
Topic
In defense of Rey Palpatine in <em>The Rise of Skywalker</em>, and why I do not think it undermines her arc in <em>The Last Jedi</em>.
Time

Yeah, that doesn’t work still. Her parents being nobody was about her not feeling like a part of this big and important conflict. Her grandfather being the biggest and most important part of this almost-century of conflict does contradict that. It contradicts her emotional arc of having to create self-worth, rather than her importance being externally from who her parents and grandparents were.

Her feelings of worthlessness don’t come across at all in Rise of Skywalker. It’s a feeling that she must be evil because Palpatine is evil. And overcoming that is literally what Luke already went through with Vader. It’s reductive to Rey as a character on a storytelling level, repositioning her again as a proxy for Luke rather than an autonomous character, and it’s also reductive to her arc that she already went through in Last Jedi to learn that she is her own person regardless of who her family was.

It’s just bad writing. Like it all you want, maybe it helps you with the accusations that she was a “Mary Sue” or whatever. It doesn’t make up for the fact that it was bad writing that hurt the character and story. Maybe that can and will be fixed, but it hasn’t been yet.

Post
#1429677
Topic
In defense of Rey Palpatine in <em>The Rise of Skywalker</em>, and why I do not think it undermines her arc in <em>The Last Jedi</em>.
Time

Cool. Still doesn’t work for me, but guess what: like you said someone else came in behind that creator and we have to adjust what it is. That doesn’t mean the original intention is gone or meaningless, and nothing Disney has done has taken away the prequel trilogy being about Anakin’s downfall, or the original trilogy being about his redemption.

Rise of Skywalker did contradict what was happening in Last Jedi, and that’s fine. I think it’s a weaker story and those changes are weaker than what we had before, but the changes happened. Pretending that intention changed is ridiculous, almost as ridiculous as saying we should ignore a writer’s or director’s intention all together.

It was a retcon, happens a lot. Each Director or showrunner has full power to do what they want so long as they’re in charge of the story. Abrams couldn’t be overruled by Johnson or even the Story Group, just as Filoni and Rau can’t be overruled by novelists, comic writers and artists, or the Story Group. That doesn’t mean the original intention disappears, it means that we have to reconcile it, or hope that newer stories reconcile it.

Your defences of this change still don’t work for me, as they make Rey’s character far shallower and less of an autonomous character in my opinion. To me, it takes away her agency. You disagree, and that’s fine. Someone asked me to come out in my 2¢, and I have. It was a terrible choice to make that change in her character, but it is canon and I hope that new stories help rectify those mistakes and bring back some of the depth she had that was robbed from us.

Post
#1429661
Topic
<strong>Star Wars: The Bad Batch</strong> (animated series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

That came off a bit rude, let me rephrase:

If your specific complaints aren’t your “point”, and the show just isn’t for you, I don’t understand what value you’re bringing to the conversation. If you’re just complaining about the show to complain about it, with none of your reasons being the “point”, then why bother?

I just don’t get why you’d complain about specific things to only turn around and say those specific things weren’t your actual complaints.

Post
#1429658
Topic
<strong>Star Wars: The Bad Batch</strong> (animated series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

I guess I don’t know what you’re looking for, if you’re saying that the timeline mismatch that you mentioned and doesn’t exist isn’t your point, and that the family relationship aspect you mentioned in the family-oriented entertainment wasn’t your point either… I guess I don’t understand what wouldn’t be weak and lazy for you. Seems like your complaints are a little weak and lazy in how they’ve been framed here.

Post
#1429603
Topic
In defense of Rey Palpatine in <em>The Rise of Skywalker</em>, and why I do not think it undermines her arc in <em>The Last Jedi</em>.
Time

This is a really long way of saying “it’s not really about what the person who wrote the story says it was about!”

To me, it doesn’t work. Like you mention, a lot of what is going on in Rey’s head and in fans’ minds and speculation during TFA and TLJ was that Rey’s importance came from her family. Theory after theory was about that, when all that was really in TFA was an abandoned child, who then gets told she can find belonging in her future rather than her past.

Rey continues trying to tie it to her past though, interpreting Maz to have meant that Luke was the key to her belonging, to her family, and to her past. She goes on a similar spirit journey that Luke did, and it similarly tells her the truth she least wants to hear: that she needs to depend on herself rather than externalising it for someone else.

She wants to, similar to fans, attach her belonging to someone else’s responsibility. That her parents are people somehow meaningful to why she’s involved in all of this, that her new abilities mean she’s destined for greatness. Instead, she’s given full autonomy and independence. She’s not a lost princess, she wasn’t even wanted… but that means she can stop living in the past and fight for what’s important to her, rather than everyone else.

Making her Palpatine’s granddaughter undoes all of this, and ends up repeating the story arc of finding out despairing news. It also is a carbon copy of Luke’s arc, taking more of her autonomy and individuality away. Rather than being a product of herself, she is a product of Palpatine. Rather than having strength in the Force because of who she is, she has powers because her grandfather had powers.

Her now-loving parents are still absent, but are heroic martyrs now to give confidence to Rey, rather than her having to build confidence in herself. Her powerful grandfather brings fear, but not as much fear as being adrift.

Narratively, she went from having to create importance from within, to having external importance thrust upon her. It’s bad writing, but it’s canon now.

So, while I applaud the headcanon trying to make it make sense, sometimes we’ve got to accept that mistakes were made.

Post
#1429559
Topic
<strong>Star Wars: The Bad Batch</strong> (animated series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

Well, firstly, Clone Wars is closer to 5yrs than 3.

Also, it is a kids show, so I wouldn’t expect it to go further away from family-oriented than Mandalorian. If that’s not your jam, I’ve got bad news for you about this family-oriented franchise that was sold to Disney specifically to keep it family-oriented…

Lastly, there will be major lore elements explored, as we’ve had two of the three episodes deal with the clones being replaced, and why.

Post
#1428279
Topic
<strong>Star Wars: The Bad Batch</strong> (animated series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

Artan42 said:

The thing that most annoyed me about the reboot of the canon after the buyout was that the new system didn’t introduce more time between AotC and RotS and between TESB and RotJ but instead kept the bizarre compressed timeline.

They never made it explicit, but they also never really stated an official timeline.

Based on Cut’s family, and how old his kids were in The Deserter, there could even be more time for the war than 5 years.

Post
#1428256
Topic
<strong>Star Wars: The Bad Batch</strong> (animated series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

I mean, Filoni’s series doesn’t line up with Genndy’s almost at all. Ventress only has one major appearance, and it’s suggested she dies.

The old canon’s tiered system of some things retconning others made it so that Filoni’s team tried to avoid Genndy’s timeframe as much as possible, but Anakin’s knighting leads almost directly into the Battle of Coruscant, by the way it’s structured. It’s a bit messy, but Filoni tries not to retcon anything if he can help it, but will do whatever he thinks is best for a story.

I think the old EU has established multiple timeframes for the Clone Wars, I’ve seen 2 years, 3 years, and 4 years published, but I don’t think anything in the new Canon has been said officially. And even if it had, that might be hanging out with Ahsoka’s green lightsabers and the red paint job on the clone armour when Caleb/Kanan experienced Order 66.

Post
#1428250
Topic
<strong>Star Wars: The Bad Batch</strong> (animated series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

ZkinandBonez said:

JakeRyan17 said:

The Bad Batch arc is about 6 months prior to RotS, and is a part of the Outer Arun Sieges. That’s why Parme still isn’t really showing in the hologram, though she knows and was about to tell Anakin.

The Trace/Rafa arc is about 2 1/2 to 3 months before that, when Anakin leaves for the Outer Rim sieges.

So basically most of TCW stories are crammed into three years or so of the clone war, while there’s roughly six months (or more?) of untold stories predating the events shown in season 1 (though technically it was originally shown in the Tartakovsky series before it was de-canonized) and about six months or so between the start and finish of TCW season 7?

For context I’m referring to Anakin being knighted and having time to grow his long hair (plus gain his scar) when I’m talking about pre season 1 events. Maybe six months is a bit of a stretch, but it would have to at the very least be a couple of months?

Different people will tell you different timeframes of The Clone Wars, what’s generally accepted by people working on those shows is that it’s roughly five years. This allows Ashoka to grow over the course of the series from roughly 12 to roughly 17. As far as the timeframe prior to Ahsoka’s arrival, be that “pre-Season 1” or the parts of Genndy’s series that haven’t been contradicted, is less established, and I’d guess was only a couple of months.

Post
#1428241
Topic
<strong>Star Wars: The Bad Batch</strong> (animated series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

The Bad Batch arc is about 6 months prior to RotS, and is a part of the Outer Arun Sieges. That’s why Parme still isn’t really showing in the hologram, though she knows and was about to tell Anakin.

The Trace/Rafa arc is about 2 1/2 to 3 months before that, when Anakin leaves for the Outer Rim sieges.

Post
#1428036
Topic
<strong>Star Wars: The Bad Batch</strong> (animated series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

I guess for me, knowing that The Bad Batch was planned prior to Rebels, and knowing Dave was highly involved in that opening sequence (and in most major beats of the show), I don’t mind him having the definitive say with his characters’ backstories.

Dave really views the franchise as being for kids, so it makes sense that he lightened up how this part of the story was told and included it in his kids show set between his other two kids shows. He’s never been slavish with continuity, and he’s always been the one to lighten the tone.

I don’t think there are too many other places with overlap, but I’ll be honest that I’m not in the know on every comic and book. There are just too many. The team tries to avoid continuity issues, and fixes them when they can… but sometimes continuity is going to break simply because of how many storytellers there are.

Post
#1428030
Topic
<strong>Star Wars: The Bad Batch</strong> (animated series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

Oh no, now Dave is as evil as Kathleen Kennedy because he directed characters he created to have a backstory he desired!

Everyone working on Star Wars must hate the fans and want them to hate Star Wars, because that’s the only reason any of them would do anything, and that makes sense for a company to intentionally make their products worse!

/s

In reality, they think about it a lot. But they always focus on what’s best for the current story they’re telling, not for what perfectly aligns to other stories. The comic told this part of the story in the manner that served the comic best, and Aftermath told it from the perspective that served The Bad Batch best. Both can co-exist, and neither is a slight against the other.

Catering to fan whims is how we got The Rise of Skywalker. So, while I don’t think they’re antipathetic toward fans of the publishing side of things, and I don’t think writers on the publishing side intentionally don’t talk to people on the shows, I feel like fans don’t realise how much is going on at any given time, how many people are involved, and how impossible it would be to keep more strict continuity.

There’s a reason most of publishing has shifted to areas of the timeline where current shows and movies are not taking place.

Post
#1428027
Topic
<strong>Star Wars: The Bad Batch</strong> (animated series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

I don’t think the emotional aspects you’re mentioning have changed. He obviously doesn’t know the Bad Batch don’t want to kill him, since Crosshair tries to kill him twice. He’s also played as being incredibly happy prior to Order 66, and his emotional shift isn’t to confusion but to fight and flight. I don’t think his character development has been negatively impacted at all.

Also, again, the comic shows how he remembers it, not how it happened. The campfire sequence might’ve been the night before, etc. The comic specifically used a narrative trope that can highlight his emotional truth rather than a literal truth.

Of every continuity error, retcon, or shifting perspective, this one seems the least problematic to me.

Post
#1427927
Topic
<strong>Star Wars: The Bad Batch</strong> (animated series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

I think Star Wars canon has always been kind of tiered, and allowed for “a certain point of view”…

Kanan comics are him retelling the events, not the events happening in the main narrative. So, mis-remembering which parts happened when to emphasise the emotional truth isn’t necessarily discontinuitous.

Post
#1427630
Topic
<strong>Star Wars: The Bad Batch</strong> (animated series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

SandMTV said:

I wish they include Palpatine’s cut lines which are from ROTS which are “Any collaborators will suffer the same fate! These have been trying times, but we past the test! {Attempt on Life and resolve been stronger already in} The war is over, the separatists have been defeated, and the Jedi rebellion has been foiled. We stand on a thresehold of a new beginning! {After Palps says safe and secure society} Which I assure you will last 10,000 years! An empire that will be ruled by this august body and a sovereign ruler chosen for life! An empire ruled by the majority! Ruled by the new constitution!”. Shouldn’t they restore those cut lines? I think they should’ve done that.

They just pulled the audio from RotS, so lines that had been cut from that movie were kinda off the table. It’s meant to be that same Senate speech, rather than another recitation.

Post
#1426696
Topic
<strong>Star Wars: The Bad Batch</strong> (animated series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

jedi_bendu said:

JakeRyan17 said:

jedi_bendu said:

I think I’m gonna rewatch The Bad Batch arc this weekend to hype myself up for the show (and remind myself who all the Bad Batch members are)! It’s been far too long.

Also, I love the character posters. Glad we’re finally getting more marketing.

Those other episodes I listed between posters highlight Echo’s journey prior to that arc.

I saw that! Might go easy on the Clone Wars watching, but I’ll maybe watch a couple episodes. Who knows, I might get sucked in and go through your whole list :p Thanks for posting it.

Of course! Most of them are specific arcs, the first handful are episodic.

Post
#1426694
Topic
<strong>Star Wars: The Bad Batch</strong> (animated series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

jedi_bendu said:

I think I’m gonna rewatch The Bad Batch arc this weekend to hype myself up for the show (and remind myself who all the Bad Batch members are)! It’s been far too long.

Also, I love the character posters. Glad we’re finally getting more marketing.

Those other episodes I listed between posters highlight Echo’s journey prior to that arc.

Post
#1426669
Topic
<strong>Star Wars: The Bad Batch</strong> (animated series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

For anyone interested in Star Wars: The Bad Batch, here are the Clone Wars episodes I think would be the best primer, in chronological order:

Clone Cadets (s3e01)
Rookies (s1e05)
The Deserter (s2e10)
ARC Troopers (s3e02)
The Citadel (s3e18)
Counter Attack (s3e19)
Citadel Rescue (s3e20)
Missing in Action (s5e12)
The Unknown (s6e01)
Conspiracy (s6e02)
Fugitive (s6e03)
Orders (s6e04)
The Bad Batch (s7e01)
A Distant Echo (s7e02)
On the Wings of Keeradaks (s7e03)
Unfinished Business (s7e04)

Post
#1421186
Topic
<strong>Star Wars: The Bad Batch</strong> (animated series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

The kids that were roughly the age of Boba (and played by that actor) in Attack of the Clones wouldn’t be fully aged up to the same age as the first batch of Clones from that film by the end, or would be barely of age. The clones age roughly two years per year (excepting Boba), so if that batch were 10 when the Clone Wars started, they would maybe be 20 by the end (relatively).

We also see a batch that is relatively the same age as Boba (half his age objectively) in a Clone Wars arc that would not have been that long before the end of the war (five years is an incredibly short period of time anyway).

I also don’t think the Kaminoans knew the Clone Wars were ending when they did, and as a business would likely have liked to continue supplying the military force (as we see with their senator in The Clone Wars), so it makes sense that there would be more young clones.