- Post
- #278326
- Topic
- Idea: a Star Trek VI edit - Klingon blood from pink to red?
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/278326/action/topic#278326
- Time
Originally posted by: Johnny Ringo
I'd always found the judge at the show trial to be rather un klingon in his speech and mannerisms. Klingons often speak in a very abrupt and cincise manner. Maybe I could overdub him with Klingon dialogue from some other source. Although that could seem out of place since they made it quite clear that everyone is speaking in english as a result of the translator.
Yeah, the judge never seemed quite Klingon-like, to me, either.
But he was elderly, and I seem to remember some old Klingons that didn't act or talk like the younger ones. And, now that I think about it, he wasn't a politician, military, or agent. I think we've had a scientist or two who didn't talk typically. And perhaps those guys who created the new Kahless. Maybe that's how an aged Klingon judge might sound.
Also, they may've had judges specializing in recorded trials of other species. He could have been trained to sound, more like an Earth-er. Just as (in TOS) Arne Darvin was trained to sound like a toady human, and Kras (the mining-rights negotiator in TOS Friday's Child) may've been trained to sound less Klingon-like.
I'd think I'd leave it. Like you say, it wouldn't be right to hear him speaking Klingonee, with subtitles, at the same time Chang & the defender are translated for us. I don't think you'd find enough Klingonee from one voice, anyway. (And there are supposedly people who actually speak Klingonee, LOL). There's an outside chance of getting someone who can voice-act, but I've never seen a younger person who could do a convincing elderly guy.
Now that you've brought it up, I realize that there's always been two main styles of speech in Klingons.
There was the blunt, terse, authoritative, and often loud style (Kang, one of Kor's soldiers, the Klingon captain in "Elaan of Troyius", Kruge and a couple of his men (ST III), most of them in V, and the majority from TNG onward).
Then there was the smoother speech pattern, usually overlaid with an air of intimidation, insincere-politeness, scheming and so forth (Kor, Koloth, the Klingon in TOS "A Private Little War", Kruge's mistress (ST III), Maltz (ST III), Koord (ST V), the major Klingons in ST VI, Lursa and B'Etor, Gowron, Martok...).
which part exactly were you referring to?
I'd always found the judge at the show trial to be rather un klingon in his speech and mannerisms. Klingons often speak in a very abrupt and cincise manner. Maybe I could overdub him with Klingon dialogue from some other source. Although that could seem out of place since they made it quite clear that everyone is speaking in english as a result of the translator.
Yeah, the judge never seemed quite Klingon-like, to me, either.
But he was elderly, and I seem to remember some old Klingons that didn't act or talk like the younger ones. And, now that I think about it, he wasn't a politician, military, or agent. I think we've had a scientist or two who didn't talk typically. And perhaps those guys who created the new Kahless. Maybe that's how an aged Klingon judge might sound.
Also, they may've had judges specializing in recorded trials of other species. He could have been trained to sound, more like an Earth-er. Just as (in TOS) Arne Darvin was trained to sound like a toady human, and Kras (the mining-rights negotiator in TOS Friday's Child) may've been trained to sound less Klingon-like.
I'd think I'd leave it. Like you say, it wouldn't be right to hear him speaking Klingonee, with subtitles, at the same time Chang & the defender are translated for us. I don't think you'd find enough Klingonee from one voice, anyway. (And there are supposedly people who actually speak Klingonee, LOL). There's an outside chance of getting someone who can voice-act, but I've never seen a younger person who could do a convincing elderly guy.
Now that you've brought it up, I realize that there's always been two main styles of speech in Klingons.
There was the blunt, terse, authoritative, and often loud style (Kang, one of Kor's soldiers, the Klingon captain in "Elaan of Troyius", Kruge and a couple of his men (ST III), most of them in V, and the majority from TNG onward).
Then there was the smoother speech pattern, usually overlaid with an air of intimidation, insincere-politeness, scheming and so forth (Kor, Koloth, the Klingon in TOS "A Private Little War", Kruge's mistress (ST III), Maltz (ST III), Koord (ST V), the major Klingons in ST VI, Lursa and B'Etor, Gowron, Martok...).
Here's a little something I was tooling around with earlier...Nothing final, just playing with some ideas.
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5453/frame1tucky8.png
I like that! That dark reddish color is pleasing. And I like that there's a lot of midrage, instead of being "punchy", saturated and contrast-y. It's more subtle, but it's legible - a good balance.
LOL! There he is. I saved IMDB's goofs list, but I hadn't checked it out before. Looks like it'd be a pain to composite him out of the seat, because there isn't a clean shot of the console. Someday I'm going to go through their list and check all those bits for repairability.
I think there was always something 'wtf' about that scene...
I think that even the quicker, subtler gaffes are worth fixing. It's like you notice them subliminally. Or you know that something doesn't jibe, even if you don't spot it. In the olden days, long before videotape, I made audio tapes of TOS episodes, to listen to between syndicated runs. There'd be a great scene that I loved on tape. But when I watched it on tv, there'd be spot where I'd feel a disconnect for a moment. Something seemed off, but I couldn't put my finger on it. Decades later, I was looking at a gaffes list, and noticed they happened during those scenes.
By the way, the scene where Kirk tackles the president just ain't right. All of a sudden, the assassin is aiming at the edge of the president's torso? That's lucky for ol' Prez, he shifts position just enough for it to miss, before Kirk can reach him. I'd rather have it cut from pulling-the-trigger to the white frame & the pillar exploding. Perhaps run a slow-motion program on the trigger-pull, so the music and sound would sync up.
Oh, and if you keep the West as the would-be assassin, you have to ditch "This isn't Klingon blood.". That one admiral had reached for the neck (pulse, I suppose), so he could've felt something wrong while the camera was elsewhere.
Might try to put in the alternate shot of Kirk non-verbally retracting his "Let them die!", if and see how it plays, since it was Shatner's wish.
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5453/frame1tucky8.png
I like that! That dark reddish color is pleasing. And I like that there's a lot of midrage, instead of being "punchy", saturated and contrast-y. It's more subtle, but it's legible - a good balance.
Hey Jaiman, Did you notice this? - Early on as the Excelsior encounters the shockwave Dimitri is standing next to Sulu, then he appears in one of the alcoves, then he is back next to Sulu and and runs over to one of the alcoves...you probably wont notice a thing like that unless you look out for it. at about the 4 minute mark.
LOL! There he is. I saved IMDB's goofs list, but I hadn't checked it out before. Looks like it'd be a pain to composite him out of the seat, because there isn't a clean shot of the console. Someday I'm going to go through their list and check all those bits for repairability.
I think there was always something 'wtf' about that scene...
I think that even the quicker, subtler gaffes are worth fixing. It's like you notice them subliminally. Or you know that something doesn't jibe, even if you don't spot it. In the olden days, long before videotape, I made audio tapes of TOS episodes, to listen to between syndicated runs. There'd be a great scene that I loved on tape. But when I watched it on tv, there'd be spot where I'd feel a disconnect for a moment. Something seemed off, but I couldn't put my finger on it. Decades later, I was looking at a gaffes list, and noticed they happened during those scenes.
By the way, the scene where Kirk tackles the president just ain't right. All of a sudden, the assassin is aiming at the edge of the president's torso? That's lucky for ol' Prez, he shifts position just enough for it to miss, before Kirk can reach him. I'd rather have it cut from pulling-the-trigger to the white frame & the pillar exploding. Perhaps run a slow-motion program on the trigger-pull, so the music and sound would sync up.
Oh, and if you keep the West as the would-be assassin, you have to ditch "This isn't Klingon blood.". That one admiral had reached for the neck (pulse, I suppose), so he could've felt something wrong while the camera was elsewhere.
Might try to put in the alternate shot of Kirk non-verbally retracting his "Let them die!", if and see how it plays, since it was Shatner's wish.
which part exactly were you referring to?
After the Starfleet briefing, Spock and Kirk argue about the negotiation order. Spock says "They are dying." and Kirk says "Let them die.". It's about 11:36 on the SE.
There's an alternate take, of Kirk, on the extras disc, in the "Prejudice" section, at about 1:18. He says "Let them die.", but is immediatly embarassed. Of course it's letterboxed, and probably needs color grading, and there's a little dirt.
It'd be an interesting experiment to keep the original "Let them die." (looks and sounds better, to me, than the alternate take), cut to
part of Spock's long reaction, cut back to a selected chunk of Kirk gesturing that he didn't mean that, and then cut back to another piece of Spock's reaction.
I think the end of Spock's reaction looks more shocked & dissaproving, and might work better as his first reaction shot. The beginning of it could possibly fit as a reaction to Kirk's embarassment.
Copies are made & ready to go to DrGonzo, hopefully tommorow.