InfoDroid

User Group: Members
Join date: 25-Apr-2005
Last activity: 24-Jul-2013
Posts: 860

Post History

Post: #153280
Topic: Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/153280/action/topic#153280
Time: 7-Nov-2005 6:48 PM

Trooperman:

First off, GREAT decision to throw in that little Emperor's cue from ROTJ at the beginning of the conference scene! That immediately takes us right back to the OT and lets the audience know they can expect to see Palpatine. Magnificent. Little things like that are what's going to take this project beyond anyone's expectations.

As far as the dialogue, I think there's something that seems odd about Palpatine's "My Negotiations will not fail". I'm not sure if the problem is with something visual or auditory. There's just something about the cut. Maybe MTHaslett's comment about leaving some space might help.

BUT, I will say that I love the placement of Mace's and Ki-Adi-Mundi's dialogue as well as the flip of the frame. I feel you've already VASTLY improved this scene, and I'm sure that will extend to help the painfully stilted dialogue delivery in the subsequent portions with Natalie Portman.

The lightsaber duel - 100% on point. Sounds much more ferocious. With this you've proven that sound is so, so important to the experience of a film, and the results you've come out with are simply incredible. Consider me very, very impressed, pleasantly surprised, happy and excited for what this is going to bring.

I'm sitting here salivating for more, as I'm sure we all are. Excellent work, My Friend.

Post: #152932
Topic: A long time ago...
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/152932/action/topic#152932
Time: 6-Nov-2005 3:05 PM

Does anyone know what font was used "A long time ago..."? Or a close match.

Post: #152928
Topic: ***The "Darth Editous" Episode IV DVD Info and Feedback Thread*** - a partially "de-specialed" DVD
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/152928/action/topic#152928
Time: 6-Nov-2005 2:51 PM

Are we already talking about Jedi?

If we're talking about Jedi, that means you're definitely doing Empire!

I love you, Darth Editous.

Post: #152925
Topic: Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/152925/action/topic#152925
Time: 6-Nov-2005 2:47 PM

This is the first I've heard of the "Sound of Music" shot. Sounds great!

I guess I missed out on the conference room scene. Link is no longer active.

Post: #152357
Topic: The Skywalker Legacy (working title) (* unfinished project *)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/152357/action/topic#152357
Time: 3-Nov-2005 2:18 PM

I always thought you could turn the six episode saga into three episodes, by taking each episode of the OT, intercut flashbacks from the Prequels (Godfather II style), telling Luke's story and Anakin's story simultaneously, and depending on what you reveal and when you reveal it, you never have to lose any of the surprises (Vader as father, Leia as sister, etc.). This is great because you only keep the good parts of the Prequels and don't have to deal with Jar-Jar or anything else you don't want to.

This is very close to what you're doing, so I'm very interested to see what you come out with, TDH.

The flashback of Obi-Wan and Anakin actually fighting Vader though is something I had never even considered, and it's a great idea to sort of throw the audience off as they're seeing what Luke imagines. It's gonna be tough to synchronize everything on a thematic and emotional level, but by focusing on Luke, you've probably freed yourself up a little. If it works, this could be a really amazing project.

Post: #152350
Topic: Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/152350/action/topic#152350
Time: 3-Nov-2005 1:43 PM

I agree with Sluggo.

ADigitalMan did the same thing in his edit and I really liked the way it gave a much more unsettling tone to the scene, and also backed up Padme's reasons for not wanting to get too involved with him at first. But, ADM's scene was mostly whittled away and came out just a little short.

With the way Sluggo suggested, you don't really lose any of the info or exchanges in the scene but you still get the effect, which I think would work even better.

But, that's, of course, for someone who isn't redubbing all of Anakin's dialogue. In your version, Trooperman, the possibilities are really endless as to what he could say.

P.S. - Maybe it would be a good idea for someone to compile a list of all the changes Trooperman has discussed and confirmed throughout this thread and tack it to the first post of the first page so we can reference it? Is that even possible?

Post: #152148
Topic: Episode 3: Fan Editing Ideas Discussion
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/152148/action/topic#152148
Time: 2-Nov-2005 3:39 PM

The whole Mace/Palpy duel was iffy.

Post: #151916
Topic: Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/151916/action/topic#151916
Time: 1-Nov-2005 5:10 PM

That's good news, Commander Courage. I'm glad it's being addressed.

As far as "Yoda saves the day", whether the event is expected or not, my opinion is that it could be injected with a lot more emotion through the simple use of editing and music, etc. Regardless of Lucas' intentions or comments for the scene.

It's funny that you're mentioning Lucas' commentary as if that validates the reason the scene was lacking any dramatic punch whatsoever, because, the bottom line is, if his film-making sensibilities weren't gravely flawed, people like Trooperman wouldn't have to pour their time and resources into fixing his mistakes. So, at this point, who really gives a damn what Lucas thinks?

What you're saying is that everyone knew there was going to be a big battle because it was advertised, so oh well. And that's exactly how it came across in the movie. Big deal. But, I'm saying that this scene and the events leading up to it should be structured in a way that it IS a big deal! You have to make it a big deal! We know there will be a big battle, of course. There's always one. But we don't know HOW it's going to happen or WHAT's going to happen.

The Jedi and all three main characters are completely outnumbered, surrounded by thousands of battle droids, Dooku and his underlings have them right where they want them, they're about to be executed, what are they going to do? And suddenly, "LOOK!" up in the sky... It's YODA! With an army of clones! I mean, come on! It's the big climax of the movie! It's the beginning of the first battle of the great Clone Wars! Without the Yoda duel, it's the high-point of the entire film. And the music and emotion of the scene should reflect that so the audience knows what to feel. That's why I compared it to the Han Solo thing, because that's how it SHOULD feel.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this project is shaping up to be one of the most extensive fan-made reformations of a Star Wars film to date, and it's about the restructuring and reimagining of an existing hack-job... To make it something worthwhile and enjoyable that can stand up with pride next to the OT. How is that going to be accomplished if you judge the value of an idea based on the comments of Lucas, the very architecht of the saga's inconsistency?

Post: #151891
Topic: Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/151891/action/topic#151891
Time: 1-Nov-2005 3:12 PM

Sorry, Sluggo, but for me, it's the equivalent of Jesus Christ saying, "Gimmie a high-five!"

Post: #151876
Topic: Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/151876/action/topic#151876
Time: 1-Nov-2005 2:08 PM

After watching AOTC again, I noticed that a lot of work needs to be done to maintain the original character of Yoda. I'm really hoping you'll be paying attention to these problems in your project, Trooperman. To date, all other editors have overlooked or ignored these instances.

Particularly, "Around the survivors a perimeter make" just doesn't sound right. It sounds like they tried too hard to make Yoda sound like Yoda and they failed. "To the forward command center take me" mmmiiiight pass. I don't know.

The "Warm feelings to my heart" line is completely out of character. Why do they try to make him so cutesy? So they can sell dolls? The whole character of Yoda is interesting because although he looks like a cute, little frog-thing, he's really just a cranky old man. And they've killed that with lines like this and the Younglings scene.

Which brings me to the other thing that definitely needs to go, which is the "Truly wonderful the mind of a child. (snicker, snicker)" The scene would work much better with Yoda retaining his serious demeanor and simply cutting to him saying "The Padawan is right."

And at the END! The horribly botched ending! When Yoda shows up with the clones to save the day, it should be an emotional equivalent to when Han Solo reappeared with the Falcon to save Luke at the end of ANH. Why didn't we hear a big, triumphant rendition of Yoda's theme during that scene? Or at least the Force theme??? It should have made us clap and cheer!!! Instead we said, "Oh... Yoda. Of course. When is this crap gonna be over?"

And in closing let me just stress again the importance, value, and downright dire need of a complete and total overhaul of the music. Watching it again, the music for this film is so bad... it... it actually makes me angry.

Anyway, this Yoda stuff is something I didn't really remember as being a problem, but watching it with editing in mind, it sticks out like a sore thumb.

Post: #151694
Topic: Episode 3: Fan Editing Ideas Discussion
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/151694/action/topic#151694
Time: 31-Oct-2005 6:15 PM

I thought Shaak Ti was supposed to be stabbed in the back by Anakin in the meditation room at the Jedi Temple, just before he slaughters the Younglings. What ever happened to that version?

Post: #148274
Topic: Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/148274/action/topic#148274
Time: 16-Oct-2005 9:32 PM

Originally posted by: Trooperman

This is great stuff! Thanks SO much for this. My favorite was the "Rowhouses" track- definitely sounds like something that goes in either the arena or the Clone War. What I like to do with these new themes is hint at them a couple times earlier in the movie, and then blast a full version of it at a dramatic moment. The punch of the music is added to by the familiarity; you've heard it before. I'd love to get hold of more of these tracks- are they on the game in .mp3 format, or uncompressed .wav? (sorry- not a big gamer here). If they're in the .wav format, I'll definitely want to get hold of them for better fidelity (I'm one of those people who try to pick out the compression artifacts in mp3 instead of just listening to it. Also worth noting that I can't stand watching a PAL movie because I have something called "perfect pitch" that enables me to identify and produce all 12 musical pitches, and I can't stand hearing the SW theme in B Major instead of B flat- it drives me nuts).

Edited: PM me your info, Trooperman.

InfoDroid

Post: #147790
Topic: Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/147790/action/topic#147790
Time: 14-Oct-2005 4:25 AM

Originally posted by: Commander Courage
Trooperman will be using selections from both in SotDS. What I'm looking forward to the most though is "Uranus" as Dooku's Theme.

That'd be killer. Especially the very beginning, very ominous.

Anybody ever hear of a guy named Michael Giacchino? He started out doing video game soundtracks (Jurassic Park: The Lost World, the Medal of Honor series, etc.) and has recently done his first major movie which was "The Incredibles". Anyway, my point is this guy sounds VERY similar to classic John Williams. So much so, that some of his action cues from the games he's done, the World War II-themed games in particular, could be useful as a viable John Williams alternative for you, Trooperman, if you needed to stretch the music in certain areas.

If you have the time, you should check 'em out:

Call of Duty - Breaking Through

Medal of Honor - The Rowhouses

Medal of Honor - The Halftrack Chase

Also Trooperman... You mentioned there would be some original music written for this edit. Could you elaborate on that?

Post: #147571
Topic: Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/147571/action/topic#147571
Time: 13-Oct-2005 5:58 AM

I just listened to Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring". It does sound eerily similar to the OT, especially the scene where the Stormtroopers are running down the halls of the Death Star. I wonder if some of it was used in the temp track for ANH.

Post: #147354
Topic: Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/147354/action/topic#147354
Time: 12-Oct-2005 8:30 AM

LOL!

Too true, Commander Courage. And please know, I wasn't disagreeing with ALL of your opinions. Just the one about the trench run not being the right fit for the duel.

Let me just elaborate by saying, to a degree I think that familiarity with the music can greatly enhance an otherwise stale scene simply due to the emotional connection we have with it from the other films. I'd say to most people this is an unconcious connection. Even you said you couldn't place it the first time you heard it, because you're seeing it juxtaposed in a completely new context.

I understand what you're saying about Ben Burtt's crew misusing and abusing the same mediocre musical cuts over and over again. But the problem with the editing of the prequel scores, hack-jobs as they were, was that they cannibalized themselves. My point being that if you're crappily editing music into a sequence the music was never meant for, and the music you're drawing from was crappy to begin with, then chances are you're going to end up with crap. Which is exactly what happened. Had their source been ANH or ESB, the effect might have been totally different.

So, although it may not work with some scenes, or with certain music that has reached a level of cliche, I think in Trooperman's above clips this approach is perfectly effective. The old themes are what were so glaringly missing from the Prequel scores. George Lucas always talks about thematic echos, yet the music never seems to be on quite the same page. The trick for Trooperman is to (in some cases) let the completed music dictate the editing and flow of the film, instead of vice-versa. If he does that, I think it may offer us all a brand new way of looking at this film.

Remember the first time you saw the Phantom Menace trailer???

Nothing like it. Cheer inducing. People were paying seven bucks just to see the trailer. I think the main reason the trailers were so exciting and emotionally powerful, is because we were responding mostly to the old music. I think this is especially apparent in the AOTC trailer where they used Princess Leia's theme to underpin the love story. It was so much more effective than "Across the Stars", which ultimately is nothing more than a softened-up and disappointing rehash of Williams' "Nixon" score.

I think you'll agree when I say a complete musical overhaul of the Prequels would alone do wonders for the films, and for the story arch as a whole.

Anyway, great job, Trooperman!

Post: #147237
Topic: Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/147237/action/topic#147237
Time: 11-Oct-2005 5:12 PM

I'll have to disagree with Commander Courage on this and say that I love the choice of the trench run music for this scene, Trooperman. From the portion you've provided, it seems to be a perfect (and exciting) fit and helps to raise the level of tension for the entire scene. Unlike that aimless, percussive funeral knell that John Williams crapped out for the official release. Whatever that was.

People tend to forget that 50% of the OT experience was the music, a part of the experience which in my critical opinion (with a few granted exceptions) is severely lacking in the Prequel Trilogy. Don't get me wrong, John Williams is the master and all, but in the case of the Prequels, the Goose had apparently run out of golden eggs.

Musical Synchronization is the key.

As a matter of fact, I must mention that you have come a LOOONG way since I last visited this thread, which was when it was only one page long. Back then, after reading your first entry, I admit that I laughed it off and said that what you were proposing (with a full redub of the main characters, sound effects, etc.) could never be done with any degree of acceptable quality. But now... Wow! I've seen the screenshots and sample vids... and what can I say? You've made a believer out of me!

Best of luck to you in this endeavor, as I read this thread I'm noticing that your directorial sensibilities are very much in tune with a lot of the changes I would've made myself. I'm overjoyed to see that someone is putting so much focus and effort into recreating the soundtrack of this film. It is an aspect that has been largely overlooked or ignored by most fan-editors up to this point. And IMO, it is where the prequels need the most work.

I look forward to tracking down a copy of this once it's completed. Meanwhile, I'll continue to follow this thread.

MTFBWY,

InfoDroid

P.S. - The saber sound effects on the above clips sound SO much better than the official release. Brings us right back to the OT, which is where we want to be in the first place.

Post: #147202
Topic: The Skywalker Legacy (working title) (* unfinished project *)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/147202/action/topic#147202
Time: 11-Oct-2005 3:31 PM

"Blending the RotS and RotJ duels works wonderfully due to the almost identical locaitons, but if I may suggest your shot of Vader arriving, instead of the one you posted from ESB, a shot from RotJ when he travels up the elevator to see the Emperor. "

My thoughts exactly, Commander Courage!

Otherwise, DemonHunter, brilliant idea!!!

I hope this project comes to fruition.

Post: #147196
Topic: Info Wanted: I'm looking for a deleted scene from ANH
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/147196/action/topic#147196
Time: 11-Oct-2005 3:25 PM

Deleted scene filmed in 1976 involving Vader and/or the Emperor regarding the fact that Anakin's son Luke is still alive??? Not likely. I don't know where McCallum gets his info but why would this alleged "deleted scene" have not surfaced SOMEWHERE in some form over the past thirty years? Particularly in either the novels, radio dramas or annotated screenplays. A FILMED scene!

Don't you think that after the big revelation in ESB (or especially after it's confirmation by Yoda in ROTJ) they would've rushed into the archives, dusted off the film cans and spliced that puppy right into a re-release of ANH to build support for the plot twist?

Nah. I don't buy it. Doesn't exist. Never existed. DICK McCallum (sic) doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

Post: #146705
Topic: <strong>The "ADigitalMan Special Editions" DVD Info and Feedback Thread</strong> (Released)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/146705/action/topic#146705
Time: 9-Oct-2005 8:33 PM

I disagree, ShiftyEyes. I think it helps show the audience why Padme doesn't want to rush into a relationship with this guy. She wants to like him, just like the audience wants to like him, but there are warning signs that keep casting doubts in her mind. To me, it's more effective than her simply being "focused on her career".

And I think the reason the edits feel to you like they cut in the middle of a scene, is because they do. This happens with the theatrical cut of every film. It's called editing. We just don't realize it because we haven't seen the entire scene, we see the parts the director wants us to see. You've watched the Star Wars saga a million times and you've gotten used to the flow of the George Lucas version. I don't think that fact can be used in criticism of ADigitalMan's editing skills or whether or not his edit of the film is good.

Watch this one enough times and your memory of the original version will be hazy at best, as has happened with the OT after almost ten years of watching the Special Edition.

Post: #146072
Topic: <strong>The "ADigitalMan Special Editions" DVD Info and Feedback Thread</strong> (Released)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/146072/action/topic#146072
Time: 6-Oct-2005 3:18 PM

Well, I've watched them all and I must say you've done
an amazing job, ADM. The picture and sound quality
are all top notch. Loved the choice of music for the pod race. Loved
Jabba's subtitles in IV. Loved the easter egg at the
end! haha! And yes, I'm happy Sebastian Shaw is
finally back where he belongs.

I think the film that was improved the most by your
edits was Episode II. Great, great decisions you
made. All of the deleted scenes work so much better
than the ones they used in the theatrical release. In
particular, I was shocked at how you changed the entire context
of the meadow scene just by cutting it before showing
that he was joking about "Well...If it works..." And
then she gives a concerned look, like "warning sign!"
Gives the entire scene a much more grim context and
adds an entirely new level of subtext into the
following scenes, and it makes the viewer more
sympathetic to Padme's decision to hold off on the
romance. Absolutely stunning how one simple edit can
add so much to the story. Seriously, my jaw dropped.

Later, I liked the Death Star references thrown in to
the subtitles. I always thought that it was important
to actually SAY "Death Star" in that scene, and you've
acheived that.

Everything else was pretty much in line with how I
would've done it. All the superfluous little moments
with Jar-Jar and so forth were rightly excised.

Those who haven't seen this need to. I'm looking forward to Episode III.

Post: #125072
Topic: George's directorial style
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/125072/action/topic#125072
Time: 23-Jul-2005 4:14 AM

How about some of the themes that constantly reappear in all his films?

----Would-be hero is stifled at home, so he leaves or is propelled by outside forces to embark upon a journey to fulfill his heroic destiny. (explored in THX-1138, American Grafitti, Star Wars: The Original Trilogy, Howard the Duck, Willow, Young Indy and Star Wars: The Prequel Trilogy)

----The high-speed chase and/or race. (featured in virtually every single film he's had anything to do with, including the films mentioned above.)

----Technology's effect on Humanity, and it's eventual failure to suppress the Human spirit.

----The aforementioned loss of limbs. Makes you wonder, for all his derring-do, why Indy never lost a leg or something.

----Little people being underestimated and eventually triumphing over impossible adversity. (Little Anakin, R2-D2, Yoda and the Ewoks, Willow, Howard the Duck, Short Round in Temple of Doom, and "Aren't you a litttle short for a Stormtrooper?")

These are just a few. Can anyone think of any more?

----

Post: #123890
Topic: Howard Kazanjian
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/123890/action/topic#123890
Time: 18-Jul-2005 2:25 AM

I guess nobody really gives a crap about Howard Kazanjian's contributions to the Star Wars Saga.

It's sad when a thread is titled "Howard Kazanjian" and you have two posts regarding him, and twenty others pertaining to Gary Kurtz, Rick McCallum, and their respective working relationships with Lucas.

Post: #122297
Topic: Super Healing Obi-Wan!
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/122297/action/topic#122297
Time: 11-Jul-2005 2:37 AM

"We're through the looking glass here, People! His head went back and to the left.

Back...

And to the left."

Post: #122296
Topic: Howard Kazanjian
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/122296/action/topic#122296
Time: 11-Jul-2005 2:27 AM

In the Lucas biography "Mythmaker" by John Baxter, the story goes that during the filming of ANH the original ILM guys were a bunch of hippie stoners who would sit around and screw off all day instead of completing the shots they were supposed to be delivering. And the stuff they did manage to deliver was unusable crap. At that point, between various on-set disasters while filming the actors, overseeing the editing of the dailies, and driving to the ILM facility to try to motivate the special-effects team, Lucas was on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

So, I think Coppola suggested Lucas hire this Kazanjian guy to be a hard-ass, no-bullshit, budget-nazi "enforcer", to make sure Rydstrom and the other ILM guys got the job done on schedule. He took up an office at the warehouse Rydstrom and co. were using for a special effects facility, and supervised their daily progress, and when he wanted something, he didn't say "please". Unlike Lucas, he was not a pushover, and for that reason he was resented by the crew. He was almost like the "Darth Vader" of the production. Feared, respected, and hated, Lucas' "sinister agent of evil".

Obviously, the relationship between him and Lucas worked, he got the job done, so Kazanjian was brought on again as a go-between for Lucas and Kershner during the filming of ESB.

He went on to work on Raiders of the Lost Ark and ended up filling Gary Kurtz' position on Jedi. For some reason Lucas and Kurtz had a fall out.

I don't think Kazanjian was brought in for any of the Prequels, but I could be wrong.

Post: #121263
Topic: ***The "Darth Editous" Episode IV DVD Info and Feedback Thread*** - a partially "de-specialed" DVD
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/121263/action/topic#121263
Time: 6-Jul-2005 3:35 PM

Allright, I'll be sending 6 NTSC copies on the U.S. side out by Monday to those who have PM'd or e-mailed me. Those people can hopefully take it from there and help others out who need a copy.

Really, Darth Editous... It IS the definitive version of ANH.

Tarkin's stray hairs ALWAYS distracted from the action.

Good luck on the "business hammock".