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InfoDroid

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25-Apr-2005
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24-Jul-2013
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860

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Post
#161175
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/161175/action/topic#161175
Time
This is my version of what Nute Gunray should've sounded like.

Watch this clip of him talking to the Queen, then write me a script using what you think the best subtitles would be. The goal is to make him a villain worthy of the Star Wars Saga. Sidious is cut from our version so he needs to be really nasty.

Here's the link:

Nute Gunray and the Neimoidians

I'm starting to feel like we should start working on Episode I first, so we don't have to backtrack after screwing ourselves over.
Post
#161067
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/161067/action/topic#161067
Time
Hardcore Legend,

So, that sounds natural to you?

Obi-Wan: "Anakin..."
Vader: "No longer alive..."

Just so I'm clear, is that what you're suggesting?

Yoda Is Your Father said: When Luke say's to Lando and Chewie may the force be with you over the comlink as they fly off to find Han, you could dub in Luke's line from ROTJ when he says to R2 'We're going to the Dagobah system. I have apromise to keep... to an old friend'. only this time he will be speaking the line to Lando over the comlink (might even be able to find some dialogue of Lando saying 'what about you?' or something like that (there is actually a similar line in the sand storm scene which has Han asking Luke to join them on the falcon and Luke saying 'I have a promise I have to keep first... to an old friend'. which would be perfect if it could be ripped. We then cut to Luke on Dagobah, Yoda's confirmation of Vader as Dad, then he dies and the movie ends. Luke knows what he must do, and in the next movie, he does it.


I really like that idea! That could definitely work.
Post
#161061
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/161061/action/topic#161061
Time
Hardcore Legend: Good point about the "Obi-Wan once thought as you do" line.

I don't think it'll work in the duel because we don't have the souce material for lines like "No longer exists..."

BUT, in ROTJ Vader's line could be changed to "Padme once thought as you do." Using the "Padme" from ROTS. She was the one who felt there was still good in him. She was the one who confronted him and told him he could come back with her. Ideally, he'd say "Your Mother", but since Vader never said that, I think Padme would work just as well.
Post
#161027
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/161027/action/topic#161027
Time
I love the Jango vs Obi-Wan change and I think it'll work well.

The Arena clip, on the other hand, just didn't feel right. Wasn't the right tone for what they were facing. And the recording sounded real tinny.

BUT, the good news is, I've always loved that theme from "Laura" and I have a version that was conducted and arranged by John Williams. I'll send it to you, you'll love it.


EDIT: You've got e-mail.
Post
#161024
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/161024/action/topic#161024
Time
Originally posted by: Hardcore Legend
That sites d/l speed blows, but that edit is much better. The ending needs alittle bit of work, but it's must stronger than that other mess.

Thanks. I would've done Rapidshare but they have a 100mb limit now.

It's a shame that you can't tinker with them in a 'clutched' position, so it looks like they are struggling back and forth at a moment, almost at an empass.

I probably could.

I would add in some more dialogue from Vader or some off screen stuff from Ben. Possibly a Vader "You don't know the Power of the Dark Side" right after Obi Wan smiles and right before Vader strikes him. Re-using some frames, or just playing them back again...it would allow for the score to sync up alittle bit more or finish and would also look back towards "You underestimate my powers".

Good idea. I'll definitely try it.

MTHaslett wrote: But that issue aside -- I think InfoDroid could do a quicker pass through ANH to add the few ques and tweaks that blend it into Episode III without changing that beat and finish faster. Maybe that's wisest at this point since we all know Trooperman doesn't want to change it. There's still plenty to tweak and construct -- I think it's necessary to get the Emperor at least one scene in ANH (and we do have material we plan to cut from the prequels available to us).


Maybe that's a better idea, MTH. To be honest, not a whole lot needs to change in the OT. Not like the Prequels. Except for a few things that HAVE to change.

Commander Courage wrote: I'm all for music alterations, but let's not be tracking ourselves note for note or we fall into the trap of AotC (and to a lesser extent RotS). One very out of place cue was the big crescendo when the droids make their way to the ship. What I liked so much about the original clip I posted was although the music jumped around, everything was appropriate for its accompanying visuals. What you've done is definitely a great groundwork, but I think we can make it even better with the right musical cues in the right places. The key thing for me really is Obi-Wan's death and the Falcon's escape. That bit was perfect on the one I posted; also TM has said he doesn't want to use that music in its place in RotS, so it wouldn't be a repeated track. I also think it should start out with low, ominous and mysterious music; obviously not the same track as used in the first clip (coming from Padme's Ruminations) but something along those lines. So take it or leave it but those or my thoughts.


All right, well that's why I put it out there. Now I fear maybe I've jumped the gun in posting it. You've made some valid points, and I'll work to make it better.

I would agree with the people warning against “de-aging” these movies. If it were me, I would use as much footage from the original as possible (the original establishing shot of Ben’s hut, no stupid looking Star Trek explosions, the original aliens in the cantina, no “funny” droid antics in Mos Eisley, no rontos, no little droids hovering around the stormtroopers and distracting you from the dialogue…the list goes on and on).


That's the route we'll go then, if you can assure me it's going to match up with the other films.

InfoDroid- we also need to figure out what we’re doing for subtitles so that we are consistent.


Definitely. Episode I will require the most amount of subtitles. So, I guess we need to figure out what we're doing with that first.

Post
#160912
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/160912/action/topic#160912
Time
Originally posted by: Commander Courage

These alterations already go a long way in making RotJ a much more satisfying conclusion to the Star Wars saga. I've had these ideas for a while, and am very happy to finally have a place to share them. Hopefully you'll agree with the general concepts I've presented here. For clarification, this is not taking into account any change to ANH or ESB in regards to the revelation of Luke's parantage, and is going off of the original, official events of Episodes IV and V.

Now, THAT'S what I'm talking about! Phenomenal post, CC! That structure is a definite for ROTJ. This is what I mean by taking what we have available to us and re-inventing it. I love the idea of starting out on Dagobah. It makes much more sense. Wipe to the Emperor. Excellent! Tatooine, Luke's late arrival makes sense now. And if we can squeeze anything out of the radio dramas we should. As long as the ghost of Obi-Wan doesn't sit on a log, I'm happy.

The Owen stuff is still a little iffy for me... But...

One last thing, it was suggested THIS thread become the ""Bible Thread." Based on how the discussion is turning, I would agree.


Done.

Oh, and I'm still uploading the Duel clip. It's 111mb. I'll post the link as soon as it's available.

Post
#160863
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/160863/action/topic#160863
Time
Originally posted by: darthpreston
Quick question for trooperman: Is there going to be a music theme for Jango Fett? I always thought that his presence demanded it's own musical cue, considering he has soo much action and screen time. AOTC only offers chopped up "action" music. Just curious.


I still think it would be cool to try that little bassoon motif from ESB.

Post
#160843
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/160843/action/topic#160843
Time
Okay, I've read everyone's posts, but I'm sorry I don't have time to respond to each one personally, but I will say we've got some great discussion going on in here.

Thanks for the scripts, Guys. That's a great idea, and really will help me when I edit. I will say, MTHaslett, your version has very good potential, and we may go with a version of it, but as it stands, it's a little too close to the original structure for me. And CC, I have some issues with your dialogue regarding Uncle Owen. The dialogue suggests that Anakin and Owen had some type of relationship, which was never touched upon in the Prequels and therefore becomes confusing to the viewer. Same with talk of a "damn-fool idealistic crusade". When did that take place? During the Clone Wars? And if it did, how did Owen know about it? See what I'm saying?

The big question seems to be Ben's Hut or Dagobah for the reveal? I've seen several good suggestions for the Ben's Hut scenario, and almost none for the Dagobah scene, except to say that it "would be a good idea". So, if someone is sold on the idea, they need to write up a script version of a Dagobah reveal using ONLY available dialogue and visuals. Nothing crazy. And then we can consider it. As Commander Courage noted, Luke is in an orange jumpsuit for most of the time and doesn't give many surprised reactions. So how is he going to respond to these revelations? Please make sure to include your explanation on how this would be accomplished in your proposed scenario.

Remember, this is not the "InfoDroid" edit, even though I'm physically doing the editing. This is the "Ranch Edit" and will be credited as such. I want this to be an inclusive, creative process, because I know there are things that are spinning in your heads that I might never have thought of, and might never think of. The goal is simply this... To collectively make the most complete, satisfying and audience-friendly version of the Star Wars Saga. We're qualified to do this, because we've spent a lifetime watching these films more times than we can count. The hard part will be agreeing on what we think is "the best", but that's what pushes us to create a water-tight scenario. If we mix the best elements of the OT with the best of the PT then we should have some pretty good results. The best thing we can do right now is fight it out.

A rough cut of the duel will be posted later tonight, so get ready to download.



--InfoDroid

Post
#160328
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/160328/action/topic#160328
Time
Thanks for the encouragement, CC. But, as far as the flashbacks being out for good, I'm just not entirely convinced yet. I still believe it provides the audience a much-needed emotional connection to Anakin (as a Human Being) in the OT, to remind us he's more than just a walking iron lung. But, like I said, I'll be editing a non-flashback version as well.

Originally posted by: Commander Courage

As for restructuring Ben's Hut scene, putting Leia's message first was exactly what I was going to suggest. This was the way the scene was originally shot, but Lucas thought something wasn't right about them receiving such an urgent message and then sitting around and discussing the past instead of getting a move on. While that decision has it's merit, I think the original flow of the scene will work best in our edit.

I had read that also, and decided to give it a try, and so far I've liked the results. It's reminicent of the Prequel-style transitions where you go to a scene while in the middle of everyone standing around listening to a holographic transmission. It seems to feel more urgent that way. You'll have to take a look at it when I'm finished and decide for yourself.

There is one line in Leia's message that we might need to tweak: "Years ago you served my father in the Clone Wars." Not exactly. And hey, while we're at it, what do you guys think about de-pluralizing Clone War in Luke and Leia's mentions of them? There was only one after all.


I really don't know how I feel about that. The Clone Wars were a series of large scale battles which engulfed the galaxy and spanning several years. I don't see any problem with them being called "The Clone Wars". But, that's just me. If you really feel strongly about it, then let's discuss it. But, you're right about Obi-Wan not exactly serving Bail Organa. Although, technically the Jedi were put in place to protect democracy and to serve the Senate. Plus it might've been a more PC term in that political environment rather than coming right out and telling her he was a Jedi. For me, it's the set-up for a very important transition in this arrangement of the scene, because after the message is over, Luke asks "You fought in the Clone Wars?"

And I said where the duel clip came from: Darth Qui-Gon at the Jedi Council Boards at TF.N (yes I do lurk there from time to time). I'm looking forward to your version InfoDroid, but may I reiterate a couple of points from my original post?
1-The part with the really slow fencing and stabbing should be cut entirely.
2-The shot of Vader saying, "You should not have come back" should be reversed (his chestplate is backwards). This also means it needs to be moved to later in the duel to account for his position on the other side of the hallway. I think this is good because it will break up the dialouge more.


Sorry, I must've missed your original post. Your messages sometimes tend to get lost in the shuffle for some reason. But, both of these points have been addressed in my version, and the results have been very good, IMO. You'll see it soon.

Post
#160304
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/160304/action/topic#160304
Time
Originally posted by: TheDemonHunter

Your clip of Ben's Hut was fantastic and is in some ways reminscent of what I'd like to show when I get to ROTJ in my project. I agree with MTH that showing the mechanical hand was pure genius at that point. Too cool to be believed. I may not agree with all the content, but the way you put it all together was very well done.

Thank you very much. At this point though, it was only an experiment. One option out of many that we'll have to decide on.

I also like the concepts of what was shown in the duel clip you showed us. Very interesting indeed, and it does help to tie things together thematically. It may have been a bit rough, but the ideas show through very well and make things more interesting, I think.


That one was not one of mine. I still haven't heard where Commander Courage got that clip. But, I have one that I'm working on now along the same lines, just a little more tailored to fit and much better audio/visual quality. It should be ready to post within the next few days.

Originally posted by MTHaslett: Sorry to say, perhaps, but your clip put me in mind of a way of doing the whole Ben's hut scene without flashbacks. I'm nearly through a version like that-- I'll post it as soon as I can.


Please do!



--InfoDroid
Post
#160227
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/160227/action/topic#160227
Time
TheDemonHunter and MTHaslett, thank you both for your most recent wonderfully thoughtful and insightful posts. These two posts are perfect examples of the level of intellectual creativity I hope we can maintain on this thread. If we do that, I think we can really get somewhere with this.

MTH, right now I'm tidying up my edit of the Vader/Obi-Wan duel, if all goes well it should be posted by the weekend. And I'm also working on an alternate take of the Ben's Revelation scene.

This one would be structured differently, to begin straight away with Leia's message already beginning when we're seeing the exterior of Ben's Hut.

We cut inside and listen to the message with Ben and Luke.

When Leia is finished, Luke turns to Ben and asks "You fought in the Clone Wars?"

Which provokes the story of Anakin.

Then Ben says, "You must learn the ways of the Force, if you are to come with me to Alderaan."

Luke responds with, "The Force?"

Obi-Wan explains the Force, and gives him the lightsaber.

Luke waves the lightsaber around, before asking "How did my father die?" Then we get that horrific tale out of Obi-Wan, which also serves as a recap for the audience. He ends it with a simple call to action. "Learn about the Force, Luke."

Luke recoils.
"Listen, I can't get involved. I've got work to do."
"That's your uncle talking."
"My uncle... How am I ever going to explain this?"
"I need your help, Luke. She needs your help. I'm getting too old for this sort of thing."
"I can take you as far as Anchorhead. You can get a transport there to Mos Eisley or wherever you're going."
"You must do what you feel is right, of course."

This breaks everything up a little more in my opinion, so we're not so bombarded with too much information all at once. After this is complete I want to try another version of the same scene with no flashbacks, something very conservative, along the lines of what TheDemonHunter suggested. You guys can tell me which version you like better.

Until later,

--InfoDroid

Post
#160094
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/160094/action/topic#160094
Time
Originally posted by: MTHaslett
Oh yeah -- I forgot to comment on the duel clip.

InfoDroid -- did you see nothing of value there? I agree with your comments about the mix, but I was pretty blown away by the general effect. The "Saga" version of the duel is much better reflected with the new music cues and sharper action.

I mean no disrespect to whoever created it, it's just hard to enjoy something that's so highly compressed quality-wise and difficult to really judge how good it is. As I explained earlier in the SOTDS thread, I've already started work on an edit of this scene utilizing the "Obi-Wan vs. Anakin" track from ROTS. And yes, I'm thrilled with the results of the juxtaposition. I guess I was just comparing it to mine.

I'll be posting mine pretty soon.

I didn't understand why Obi Wan's line "run, Luke, run!" was replaced with Vader's voice. I think that jumps the gun because if Vader knew Luke were on the Death Star, he wouldn't give a good damn about dueling with Obi Wan.


Very true. But it was still kind of a cool effect, that makes you think more about the possibilities of this whole Jedi telepathy thing. Especially regarding Anakin.

But there is an aesthetic choice you face, InfoDroid: what "look" are you going for? Trooperman has the intention of "aging" the prequels. We are in danger here of "de-aging" the OT. My opinion is that the SE versions of the OT have many aesthetic changes that match better with the PT, but I think my ideal "Saga" would all have as much OT style as possible. That means music cues, story-telling choices, seamless effects (as much as possible-- avoiding bad CGI whenever possible), and "flash-frames" in the duels and laser-battles. But what do you think?


I want whatever we do to be consistent with SOTDS. Including all of the points you mentioned. But, keep in mind I am also limited by what my equipment will do. I've been having trouble in Womble adding effects, even wipes and color changes.

Post
#160086
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/160086/action/topic#160086
Time
Originally posted by: Hardcore Legend
That ANH lightsaber duel is pretty good, but VERY rough. The musical cues are way off. When they begin to talk about 'you can't win Darth' the cue should be from the "1:58" on Track 3 of the ROTS soundtrack. It is the moment in ROTS when the two talk, and it blends it much better. There is alot of mixed themes in that version that are distracting.

Yeah, I agree. I have no idea where that clip came from.


Originally posted by THX:
Thanks for your reply. However, you didn't address points 1) & 2) from my post. I have no objection to your edit in principle - this is intended to be constructive criticism. After all it's better to work out your ideas in full now than do all the work and then find they don't work.


Okay, sorry I didn't give you a complete enough response. As I've said, the plans are not yet concrete, and I agree that if the revelation is changed to "Obi-Wan killed your father", then we'll be right back where we started as far as Obi-Wan's honesty is concerned. So, that's not really a viable option. However, there might not be a need for this "big revelation" at all. The fact that Luke faces Vader, gets his hand cut off and then decides to jump into a bottomless chasm before he'll turn to the Dark Side, I think is a pretty big climax already. Now, if we can add another level to that to make it even more interesting, that would be fantastic.

And the Yoda idea is simply not feasible, because there is no recorded Yoda dialogue that's anywhere near what Commander Courage, KlingonJedi or anyone else has suggested. I mean, I don't have Rob Coleman and Frank Oz locked in my basement, I'm sorry to say. We have to have a source for this stuff to be able to integrate it into the movie.
Post
#160068
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/160068/action/topic#160068
Time
Originally posted by: Sluggo
I was wondering about them flashbacks. If you use footage and audio for flashbacks, are you still going to keep the footage in later on. For example, the Obi-wan sequence in ANH that quotes the monologue from Jedi. If you guys are making this a whole saga or trilogy of whatever, would you cut out the scene in Jedi because the audio was already used in ANH, or would we have it twice? Does this make any sense?

No, the scene would be cut. Besides, the ghost of Obi-Wan is SITTING on a log! I always hated that. The part that makes this inconvenient is the revelation of Leia as his sister. But it could be handled another way. Lots of other ways actually.

Originally posted by THX:
Not to mention that the ESB scene is one of the high points of the OT as it is - and if it aint broke...


Yeah, but if you watch the episodes in order, the big surprise is already ruined. The only high point is seeing Luke's reaction when he finally finds out, and you have to admit... It's overplayed. "NOOOOOOOOO!"

Also, keep in mind that the Obi-Wan scene in ANH is not the only scene being changed. Luke's entire story will now be affected by this. So, by the time we get to Cloud City the events that take place there will feel very natural. Remember, we're doing this to plug plot holes, not create new ones. Don't worry, we have no intention of ruining Empire Strikes Back by doing this. We're all going to be giving the whole saga an in-depth and thorough analysis before slapping something together and hypocritically throwing it out there. If we did, we'd be no better than Prequel-era Lucas.

Originally Posted by Commander Courage:
My biggest problem with the idea of Obi-Wan telling Luke exactly what happened to Anakin in the very beginning is Luke's reaction. He just stares at Old Ben dumbfounded as he reveals that his father's not really dead, but an agent of evil responsible for the extermination of the Jedi order. And oh, by the way, here's his lightsaber: you should have it. I appreciate what we're trying to do here with Obi-Wan's character, but it's just not going go smoothly, and will create more problems than it solves.


I understand what you're saying, but why don't we just give it a chance and see what we can come up with, see how far we can push it? If, in the end, we decide it was the wrong decision, then we can always pull it back to something more along the lines of what TheDemonHunter suggested above.

None of this is etched in stone... yet.
Post
#160034
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/160034/action/topic#160034
Time
Some consctructive critiscism:

- "You fought in the Clone Wars" is a jump-cut.
- "How did my father die" - Perhaps you need to work on this. Maybe a c/u of Kenobi to mask the lack of lip sync.
- May I also suggest that if you use the 'echoed voice' on the flash backs that you go the whole hog and colourize the flashbacks. Perhaps washed out or with a blurred edge - something to seperate them from the ANH pictures.


This is exactly what I was looking for. The jump-cut was to remove Obi-Wan's comments about Owen not "holding with your father's ideals" wanting him to stay here and not get involved, which now makes no sense in the saga. You're right, Luke's positioning is off on this, and I'll work on it to make it flow better.

"How did my father die" was a challenge because when Luke asks this he's already holding the lightsaber. I thought it would be better to move this question to before the lightsaber scene, but there are issues now with the audio and lip-sync. I'll work on some other options.

The colourization of the flashbacks was definitely something I wanted to do from the very start, but for some reason, when you add those types of effects in Womble, all of a sudden the fps rate goes waaayy down. It starts looking stuttered and jumpy. I don't know what the deal with that is.

Thank you for pointing those issues out, Jambe. I'll work on them. And I can't wait to see your Empire project completed as well.

TO COMMANDER COURAGE: I love you because you rarely agree with anything. That's why you're so valuable to this team, it pushes us to think of something better. By the way, that ROTJ radio drama stuff is GREAT! We have to use it. Is that available on CD?

Forgive me, but I didn't really care for the execution of the clip you posted. The music was too loud, for one thing. It was too fractured and didn't seem to flow musically. BUT, what I DID like was when Vader telepathically called Luke to "Come with me". That was rather creepy. I might use it.

TO MTHASLETT: We've really got to come up with a solid step-by-step plan for Luke's story arc. Because, you're right, it starts with this scene here. If we can't make it work here then eventually all the dominoes will fall.

As a side note, I'm still editing this scene. The one posted is far from a finished product so I encourage everyone to submit their ideas on how to make the scene work better. I just cobbled together another line from Obi-Wan that I'd like to insert somewhere, but I'm not sure where it'll fit. "That is the reason you were hidden from your father when you were born." I've juxtaposed this line with a shot of baby Luke being handed off to Beru, in between "he became Darth Vader" and "he's more machine now than man." I'm not sure if it's working, but it would be a nice thing for him to explain during the conversation.

And one more thing, to those of you saying "flashbacks aren't Star Wars"... Keep in mind this is an entirely new project, editing all six films, so there might be flashbacks/flashforwards through the whole thing. Anything is possible now.
Post
#159878
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/159878/action/topic#159878
Time
Originally posted by: ReverendBeastly
I can't say I'm entirely for the idea, but the clip that was posted was very interestingly done and I think it would be very neat to watch the movie in this way. The only thing that stood out to me about the clip were the significant differences of Alec Guiness' performances from ANH and ROTJ, but save that, it was very cool.


Well, if you're talking about "the echo", I think that can be explained away as Obi-Wan thinking back to the past. I was careful to only use the ROTJ voiceover during a flashback, and the ANH scene exclusively when you're looking at Ben and Luke. I actually think there are certain parts that, to me, turned out surprisingly seamless. Like "Anakin was a good friend... And a cunning warrior." That's my favorite cut.

Post
#159877
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/159877/action/topic#159877
Time
Originally posted by: Trooperman
Whoa, wait a second! If this will be the official OT to go along with the new prequels, then I'll definitely contribute to it! You’ve talked me into that one.

YES! I knew we could coax you into it! lol

Now, as far as “A New Hope” goes, the two immediate things that I’d like to see in the project (off the top of my head) are 1. Basing this on Tellan’s edit. Why? He’s color-corrected the awful 2004 DVD of this, and it’d be a shame to just take it right from the official DVD and have the same problems all over again.


I've been using Darth Editous' version as a base. I've never heard of "Tellan". I guess I need to locate a copy of his and check it out.

Second, I’d like you to use the restored DVD quality logos that I’m using for the prequels (most of which you’ve sent me to begin with). When I finish the timing (and receive the fox logo from Alien), I’ll get the whole thing to you so that this opening is consistent.


Definitely! I had intended that from the get-go. I'm just so glad you're onboard with us!
Post
#159832
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/159832/action/topic#159832
Time


MTHaslett wrote in a different thread:

Okay-- first I want to make clear these changes are only to make ANH fit better into the Saga. Personally the first Star Wars movie is the best, the only one that stands on its own, flawlessly and magically. ESB is nice, but it doesn't end and we all know how that turned out ;-P

But to turn this into a Saga that one enjoys best in a 1,2,3,4,5,6 fashion, some sacred stuff will go if I have my way-- because the 1977 movie was the adventure of Luke Skywalker, but then it became "A New Hope" -- Episode IV in the adventures of Anakin Skywalker.

To embrace the Saga, I'd want more context-- I'd want to see what's the Emperor up to? Since this is our first chance to see Darth Vader in action, I'd tweak things to emphasize this point. I'd emphasize things that reveal Anakin inside the suit-- choices that would once make Anakin cringe now fill his life. I'd show some of Alderann to up the stakes of its destruction...

But the biggest change, and the biggest issue heading into the OT, regards the issue that Vader is Luke's Dad. As it stands, Obi Wan chooses to lie to Luke completely and basically set Luke up for a gigantic fall for no good reason. The only way this makes sense is if we can be kept in the dark about Vader's identity-- but now that's impossible. It's not even desirable or necessary-- make the change that redeems Obi Wan and makes him honorable again: have Ben tell Luke that Vader is his father.

It means manipulating the scene where he gives Luke the lightsaber. Have Ben explain that Anakin was a great Jedi and a good man, but that he was seduced by the Dark Side as sometimes happens. Those were harsh times and choices had to be made, so Luke was hidden from his father and Uncle Owen doesn't want Luke to know the truth. But now Princess Leia and the Rebellion need Luke.

Luke's reaction would be to join Ben more quickly, but on his trip to say goodbye to Owen, he finds them dead. His reactions throughout the rest of the movie are already, with minor adjustments, appropriate to acommodate this change.

And man, does it charge the rest of the movie up knowing that Luke already knows Vader's identity. It necessitates tweaks throughout, but not all that much.

Then, in "Empire Strikes Back," the adjustment needs to be made setting up Luke for the big reveal: that Obi Wan is the one who basically killed Anakin. Obi Wan didn't mention this. He lied! Vader doesn't want to kill Luke-- Luke can join him and rule the Galaxy! Defeated, and without options, Luke chooses suicide -- only to be rescued.

Then things carry on-- adjusting for these fixes as they go. (Along with a LOT more when we get to the crap-fest at Jabba's palace and the over-doing it with the Ewoks).

I realize this sounds drastic-- but it sure fixes things for me. Especially as regards fitting ANH into the Saga. In this draft, Obi Wan becomes as honorable as he seemed when the first movie was all there was.
Post
#159827
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/159827/action/topic#159827
Time
And a very good start, CC! You've already addressed a few things I haven't even thought of yet, namely the Ponda Baba thing. The Wolfman... Great idea. I'm already using the Darth Editous version as my source for the visuals, so all the major and minor things he fixed will stay fixed, and he's done a brilliant job. I only hope he doesn't mind us using it as a foundation.

All of Obi-Wan's inconsistent dialogue about Uncle Owen is out.

I'll be working on the duel next. So far, my ideas for it have been very much along the lines of what you just posted, with a few exceptions in the choice of music cues, you'll see what I mean when you watch the clip. I've found that "Anakin vs. Obi-Wan" from ROTS by itself adds a new dynamic to the entire sequence, from Han running through the blast door, all the way to the Falcon's escape from the Death Star's landing bay. I would definitely like to see this clip you have though, as I might be persuaded to change my mind.

Jabba and Boba Fett are certainly out. I hope MTH agrees with that one too.

A lot of the technical work, like intricate effects shots, the Ponda Baba thing, and things like rotoscoping lightsabers and so forth is somewhat beyond my capacity at this point. I agree they need to be changed. But, maybe it would be possible to outsource the work on those particular shots to a willing person who is a little more experienced in that area of expertise.

EDIT:

OKAY, IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE OBI-WAN TELL LUKE THE TRUTH IN ANH THEN HOW ARE YOU GOING TO CHANGE VADER'S REVOLATION TO LUKE IN ESB ???


We haven't discussed it in too much detail yet, but it might be something to the effect of "No, OBI-WAN killed your father." But, it hasn't been decided yet. We might cut it so there's no revelation at all. There won't really be a need for any revelation. Luke is defeated and cornered. Vader tries to convert him to the Dark Side. Luke chooses suicide. There is no ROTJ.

Kidding.

But, don't worry. It'll be good, whatever it is. I'd actually like to pass the ball to MTHaslett on that question, as I think he's the one with the whole grand scheme in his head for that particular part of the story.

--InfoDroid
Post
#159806
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/159806/action/topic#159806
Time
Yes, thanks for the support MTH. You're the brains of this outfit.

I'd also like to mention to everyone reading this that this project is not hinged on only one person's view as to what the saga should be. The three of us, MTHaslett, Commander Courage, and myself - We like to think of it as a roundtable effort, this thread an open, online collaboration. Our own little Skywalker Ranch, so to speak. That's why we affectionately refer to ourselves as "The Ranch". And although Trooperman is also a member of our clan, I believe he has chosen to abstain from the OT portion of this project due to deeply personal beliefs that episodes IV-VI should never be touched.

So, we'd like to encourage everyone to discuss what you think should stay and what should go in terms of the broader saga narrative. All ideas that fit within the above guidelines are welcome.