ImperialFighter

vaderios said:

And i cant find the pic i made showing it of(damn)

vaderios, I've caught up with the last fortnight's worth of comments since I last got a chance to look in, and hope to throw in a few thoughts of my own to do with the whole 'Falcon approaching Executor over Bespin' sequence that was brought up a few pages ago.  I've managed to find that particular 'mock-up' of yours, which I'll include when I go into my issues with the existing footage.

Great work on the latest Hoth costume detailing adywan, and good to see you've successfully 'tinted' those 'goggles' Rogue Leader!  Terrific stuff all round.  While I'm not expecting to see 'extreme close-up's of the additional/replacement ground troops, it's sure nice to know that the details will be there in new footage.  :)

Nice idea gurgle1624, although as far as the existing movie footage goes, it always seemed quite natural to me that a naturally-suspicious Han would say something like that anyway when he's notified that some unknown 'metal' thing has suddenly been located on an otherwise technologicaly-barren planet, which then transmits something that 'language expert' C3P0 suggests could be an 'Imperial code'....

Heh, I was actually also going to post those exact tunic shots that you've just shown on the left and right of your example adywan, as well as a few more that come afterwards, but my post was already quite lengthy. 

I'll go into the rest of what I think when I get a little more time, but let's just say for now, that the shot of Luke with his arm in a sling (when he's sensing Vader as the Falcon nears the Executor) is showing skin too, and looks similar to Luke's tunic shoulder when his hand is cut off.

Thanks for clarifying your thoughts on the Vader swipes at the doorway too, and very much looking forward to your anniversary clip later this month.  :)

I was thinking more along the lines of a blackened scorchmark more to the left to better match where the tip of the lightsaber seems to hit in the 'distant' shot vaderios....and where's my railing 'cut'/'scorch' then?  ;)

Seriously, I'm glad you showed that new mock-up to give a rough idea again, as I couldn't remember where your original one was either.

Re:the tunic shoulder corellian77.  I'd have to say that there's definately some different things going on with that left tunic shoulder over and above the few shots I posted back there.  There are various shots where it seems to be very much unripped overall compared to where his hand gets cut off.  That's what I see anyway.

By the way, there was a bit of conjecture a while back about what happened to Luke's hand and saber during this sequence.  Never mind that, what I want to know is, what became of those large 'gantry posts' that Vader chopped off first?....

I'll give my own take on all that in the context of the existing footage when I can get around to something else concerning Luke's fall sometime.  :)

adywan, here's a couple of other things to do with the 'gantry duel' sequence that I wanted to mention too, in case they can be tweaked a little -

1.  ....at this point below, near the end of the walkway, the railing on the left-side of Vader is intact until it's struck by a lightsaber....

2.  ....and when Vader passes that point, we now see that a 'cut' has been left through the railing.  Although there are small 'gaps' between the tops of the railing anyway, this one has definately been added after the lightsaber strikes....

( it can be seen more clearly in this bigger version - http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/3606/screenshot147.png )

3.  ....and then moments later, the railing on Vader's right-side is struck by a lightsaber too....

4.  ....which leaves a 'cut' through that railing as well....

( bigger version of shot above - http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/24/screenshot167.png )

5.  ....however, just jumping back a little, when Vader first swings his lightsaber downwards at Luke in the shot below, it seems he strikes a railing first....

6.  ....and then strikes against the side of the doorway when he takes another swing at Luke, who ducks....

7.  ....thing is, when vaderios previously did a mock-up ages ago showing two 'scorch marks' near the doorway in the 'close-up' shot below, I remember agreeing this would be a neat addition, but that there should perhaps only be a single 'scorch mark' from Vader's swing in shot 6.

However, if you agree that Vader does strike the railing first, then when we cut to the 'close-up' below, it would be good to see some kind of 'cut'/'singe' damage indicating that too, similar to the damage seen on the railings moments later in shots 2 and 4....

The current 'gap' seen in the 'close-up' railing here is part of the actual railing design, but perhaps it can be made slightly bigger, and 'sheared-off'/'singed' somewhat?

....and perhaps the same thing could also be done to this shot below which comes a little later (just before Luke hits Vader's shoulder armor), where Vader has just swiped down at a point where there is also already a narrow 'gap' in the railing, yet it remains exactly the same thin width after the sparks have gone....

This next point which involves Luke's tunic always seems really jarring to me, but it's something else you may just be able to improve a little -

....although the slight raggedness on Luke's tunic seems to be different during certain shots, both shoulder seams are generally intact in the run-up to getting his hand cut off....

....but when we cut to the shot below, the tunic he's wearing here has suddenly developed a severe rip on his left shoulder....

....yet when we cut back to various shots of Luke afterwards, his left tunic shoulder is now suddenly intact and sewn up again....

If Luke's bare shoulder 'skin' could be made to match the colouration of the tunic somehow during that particular shot, then things would be less jarring I reckon.  See what you think anyway.

Welcome aboard Nicholas.  Just to let you know that I seem to remember adywan confirming somewhere that he will indeed be making Vader's saber retract during one of those shots you mentioned, which will be a neat improvement.  Can't remember which shot he said unfortunately, but we'll see.

brash_stryker said:

Actually, I think sky's version is the one Ady expressed interest in using. If I remember rightly, sky thought that Angel's would be a pain to pull off in motion.

Ah, I see.  I thought adywan was putting an ESB-themed version of sky's original moving 'adywan' intro. on the actual edit, and perhaps using a mainly-'static' version of vaderios's mock-up on the 'extras' disc.  Sorry for any confusion thorr.

Just so you know thorr, this great logo was mocked-up a while back, and adywan mentioned he'd perhaps like to use it at the beginning of his seperate 'extras' disc, which would be neat.

Really love that parked Slave 1 there! :)

ImperialFighter said:

And because it's impossible to find the time to spread things out here on a regular basis, it sometimes takes me more than one post to cover several things at a time, when I get the opportunity.  And as I'm hoping to bring up a few more things yet for adywan's opinion/consideration, this will probably continue to be the case.

I'm already in the middle of drafting the next thing I'd like to bring up, as it happens.  I'm unable to show things on a daily basis, but considering I've eventually covered plenty in the past when I said I would do so, you can take it that I'll get around to these other things too, when it's convenient.

There's months to go, and I'll bring them up when I can over the next few weeks.  Hopefully I can go into the next thing over the next few days, and I'm a long way off thinking about anything ROTJ-related, as are others I'm sure.

Bingowings said:

Didn't I agree with you that in my full unedited post sugar?

Your post sure didn't come across that way to me, but you may have meant different compared to how you worded it, so I'll move along.

....and I think I'll let adywan announce whether he thinks anyone should bother saying much else on this thread, or not.

As there's still a few months before this edit is ready, I'm still interested in anything 'Empire'-related that someone following this thread may yet want to comment on, whether adywan gets a chance for updates or not.

Bingowings said:

Unless some new as yet undiscovered flaw in the original can be spotted I think in terms of ESB:R all that can be done in terms of contributing ideas has been done.

Well I can't speak for others, but I know that I've certainly got a few other things in mind to bring up, that I don't remember being covered yet.

I'm sure that 2D versions will always be around, and that many movies will probably never get 'dimensionalized'.

I'm with you, I wouldn't particularly want to see 'Casablanca' in 3D, but something like 'Forbidden Planet' could be fun from the back catalog.

Anyways, it seems that Ridley is actually planning two 3D 'alien' prequels now! - http://www.collider.com/2010/04/23/ridley-scott-confirms-alien-prequel-will-be-shot-in-3d/

Well Warbler, it's certainly going to be interesting to see just how many older 2D movies will end up being 'converted' in the next few years, not just for 'theatrical' re-release but for the upcoming '3D blu-ray' format too.

There's plenty of past movies that I'd be keen to see 'dimensionalized', as long as it's not done in a slapdash way.  I guess it comes down to if you like the effect or not.  Personally speaking, the 'conversion' technology amazes me, but like anything else, some companies will manage to do it better than others I guess.  It's still early days though, and things will hopefully improve as time goes on. 

I'm especially interested to see how the 'home viewing' side of things pans out eventually, where the 3D format is concerned.

It seems like 'AVATAR' is still breaking records - http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3icc341acc4f9c061e3f5665cc99fe23f2

By the way, as I mentioned in my previous post, one of the upcoming 3D movies I'm most looking forward to is the 'ALIEN' prequel.  Here's a rough idea of what it's going to focus on, that I've just come across - http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2010/04/23/alien-prequel-update-ridley-scott/

As 'Avatar' has just been given it's first dvd/blu-ray release, I thought I'd link to a few 3D-related items here again.

I recently caught my first 'polarized' live-action 2D-3D 'conversion' in the shape of Tim Burton's 'Alice in Wonderland', so I've now got an initial opinion about the process compared to 'Avatar's.  After I've braved the much-critisized 'quickie-conversion' of 'Clash of the Titans' in a couple of days, I'll post some thoughts.

Something that was unexpectedly shown before the 'Alice' showing I saw, was a 3D version of this 'Doctor Who' preview trailer which I'd happened to see on tv the day before.  It was 'converted' it seems, and looked amazingly effective I thought - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpbmMhNe6aA 

In the meantime, here's some stuff on the whole 2D-3D thing that I've come across recently -

Here's an interview from someone involved with the 'conversion' of 'Alice' -

http://marketsaw.blogspot.com/2010/03/legend-3d-founder-barry-sandrew-phd.html

Here's how the 2D-3D process seems to be achieved -

http://www.slate.com/id/2243118/?from=rss

....though not necessarily by the 'Prime Focus' process  -

http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/movies/article/788053--canadian-effect-whiz-whips-clash-of-the-titans-into-3d?bn=1

Here's some reactions to 'quickie-conversions' in general - 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/03/movies/03threed.html?src=mv

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118017453.html?categoryid=13&cs=1&ref=bd_film

Here's some snippets to do with two upcoming 3D movies that I'm definately keen to see eventually -

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2010/03/tron-legacy-director-we-are-on-a-new-server-now.html

http://www.shadowlocked.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=115:exclusive-alien-prequel-will-be-3d&catid=38:movie-news

Here's some more 3D-related thoughts from Cameron -

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/technologylive/post/2010/03/james-cameron/1

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/04/20/james-cameron-talks-to-ew-about-avatar-dvd-the-sequel-and-the-future-of-3-d-and-why-clash-of-the-titans-isnt-it

Personally, I'm hoping all the completed 'Future Earth' shots are going to be incorporated amongst the 6 minutes extra in the 'extended' version.  They're the ones I'd most like to see -

Here's an idea of what's in store for 'Avatar 2' -

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2010/04/james-cameron-talks-the-enironment-the-avatar-sequel-and-more.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+The_Hero_Complex+(The+Hero+Complex

Here's the latest on the PS3 3D upgrade for gamers -

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/consoles/ps3-won-t-get-3d-blu-ray-support-in-june-683702

http://uk.gear.ign.com/articles/108/1085559p1.html

It looks like the 3D tv launch is off to a promising start -

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601093&sid=auzWxPLpD9SE

....seems like 3D might be the future of 'home viewing' after all -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeOm-V6GJ7w

TheBoost said:

I'm just overwhelmed that James FREAKING Cameron, one of the Big wigs of Hollywood Big Wigs actually comes out and says what Lucas is doing altering and burying the OT is crap

 I wonder if he's signed the petition yet?....

TMBTM said:

Wait, question: I thought the 6 minutes added to Avatar are on the DVD released these days? Then an extended version will hit the theater with, I heard,  12 or even 40 minutes more?

Am I wrong?

'Avatar's' theatrical re-release will have only 6 mins. extra it seems, which will be incorporated into the eventual extended blu-ray too.  However, there will be quite a lot of unfinished (unfortunately) footage available on that more extensive blu-ray too.  Approx. 30 to 35 mins. worth according to Cameron, which can be watched in a seperate, longer, alternative version. 

Full details here - http://www.collider.com/2010/03/24/james-cameron-interview-avatar-blu-ray-also-talks-titanic-3d-and-avatar-2/

As far as the 'Star Wars' blu-rays are concerned, no matter what GL ends up adding to his latest 'Special Editions' of the O.T., I'm guessing they'll still look blue....

The 'page change' function is still definately messed up for some reason.  I noticed it a few days ago too.

For instance, I still can't go backwards (or forwards) on adywan's ESB:Revisited thread whenever I get to the bottom of a page, and have to scroll back up to the top to do it, as the function is still okay there.

Strange thing is, it seems this is the case on other topics too, yet some others are unaffected.

vaderios said:

(from ady's AVCHD)

Nice, as I haven't seen the AVCHD.

The falcon certainly looks better in that shot now though.

vaderios said:

I just wondering if my statement was correct about the details

 I reckon the blue sheen is smothering a lot of the detail and weathering in the SE during shots like your example vaderios.  Things should look a lot better with adywan's re-colouration.

December 2020 now ady?  Nothing like giving yourself a little more leeway, lol.

ImperialFighter said:

vaderios,

....I wish I had the time to explain why just now, but you know I'll get back to you on this when I can.  (with screenshots I now need to organise....)

.....However, you've made me notice something subtle that's missing that I would like to see added if possible, which I'll cover as well when I get the chance.  :)

It was to do with this.  When I can get around to it.

Possibly, although it's already an amazing improvement.

I just needed it for it's better building colour for what I have in mind though.

Nice one vaderios!  Much thanks

adywan said:

There are many flipped shots that i won't be re-flipping because it throws the scene out. The SE shot i won't be flipping because it would stand out too much as being the same set used later. The Chewie shot where he is firing at the troopers can't be flipped either along with the stormtroopers firing because of directional issues. The shot of Luke falling will not be flipped fully. I will hopefully  be flipping Luke in the 2 shots as he is falling

As for the wall issue its actually an optical illusion. The curved part of the wall sticks out quite a bit and when viewed from a different angle it makes it look like the corner of the wall is thinner, when it is in fact the same set.  Just look at the squib marks. they are exactly the same. Plus you can see just how far this section sticks out in other shots from behind chewie and when the squib explodes in the close up shot you can see that its slightly hidden due to the curvature of this section.  No need for a fix here.

Thanks for claryifying that the wall 'edge' thing I showed screenshots of on page 681 is just a sort of 'optical illusion', rather than a 'continuity flaw'!  Good to know, and I now see that there's a curved wall section beside the 'edge' that's always given me the false impression that there was another, different-looking wall 'partition' being used in certain shots!  Between that and the various 'camera'-views used, it turns out I've been looking at that sequence in the wrong way for years until you kept me right.... 

Quick request - does anyone happen to know what page adywan's tweaked version of the 'Bespin building with Stormtroopers' is on, that was previewed a while back?  (here's the existing version) -

I can't remember if the tweaked version was part of a 'comparison' shot or not, but it would be handy to have, to better show something I've been meaning to go into.  Thanks.

Ziz said:

Monroville said:

re: BESPIN FLIPPED SHOTS (particularly Luke falling from great height):
pesonally, I never would have noticed them if you never pointed them out.  Other than doing some CGI on Luke's hand(s), I say just keep it, especially the shot looking up the shaft towards the carbonite pod - being that if you flipped that shot, the pod would be on the right side of the shaft, which would conflict with the previous placing of the pod on the left side of the shaft.

It's a circular shaft.  Right and Left is irrelevant.  The only thing defining right and left is the camera angle, which can be written off as the camera being moved from one side of the vane to the other.

As Ziz says, there's no actual 'side' that the large 'pod' is located on inside the round 'chasm', other than any 'impression' that the 'camera'-view's may seem to give. 

But having looked at this sequence again, I reckon that simply re-'flipping' the whole of shot 8 (see below) that shows 'Luke falling' would skew the look of things unfortunately....because the 'birds-eye-views' of the 'chasm' seen in shot 4 (just after Luke looks down), and then in shot 8 (just after Vader looks down)...both seem roughly correct in the sense that the long 'strip' (that the large 'pod' is attached to) is on the right-hand side of the frame in those particular shots...

...in both those cases, the 'impression' that we are looking down the 'chasm' from roughly the same kind of 'view' that Luke and Vader have at that point, is what dictates the positioning of the long 'strip' on the right-hand side in those particular shots as 'looking' correct.

Going by the respective positions of Luke and Vader when they look down, the long 'strip' would look wrongly positioned if it was on the left-hand side of those shots instead of the right-hand side.  So due to this, shot 8 would look wrong if it was totally re-'flipped' into reverse I'd say now...and it's really just Luke that would need to be 'flipped' ideally.

However, I reckon you could definately re-'flip' the whole of shot 9 when we cut to the view underneath the 'pod', without it contradicting any details previously seen up to this point....as it would just come across as a change of 'camera'-view inside the 'chasm' at this particular point in Luke's fall, and wouldn't conflict with shot 10 that comes immediately after it either. 

But this still leaves us with the problem that the whole of shot 8 can't simply be 'flipped' too, without looking wrong.  Here's an idea of what I mean -

1.

2.

3.

4. ....at this point, we cut to how Luke kinda sees the 'chasm' below him, with the 'strip' on his right....

5.

6.

7.

8. ....and then at this point, we cut to seeing Luke falling down the 'chasm' in a way that kinda corresponds with Vader's viewpoint as he looks down in shot 7, with the 'strip' on his right too...

9. ....but when we get to this shot, I reckon this whole shot could be totally re-'flipped' without problems so that Luke's cut hand is on the correct side...as it doesn't necessarily need to show this particular layout of the 'chasm' and 'Vane' at this point during Luke's fall...and would just seem to be a change of 'camera'-view...

10. ....and even if shot 9 was re-'flipped' to sort the 'reversed' Luke, it wouldn't conflict with how we then cut to him in this shot....

....but having said that, it's really good to know that adywan is hoping to actually only tweak the 'Luke' element itself in shots 8 and 9, while leaving the position of everything else where it currently is.  That would certainly be the best result if he can manage that.

________________________________________________________________________________________________

Okay adywan, here's a couple of other subtle tweaks it would be good to see for 'continuity' between the various shots -

In certain 'chasm' shots like these first 2 examples seen below, the big lights going down the sides have a 'yellowish' tinge to them compared to the 'white' ones seen in other shots....

....so do you think they could be 'whitened' up so that they better match the look of the lights that are seen in shots like this example below?....

________________________________________________________________________________________________

Also - During various static shots showing the end of the 'gantry', there's a bit of thin 'tubing' detail missing between certain shots, that feeds into a black, 'hollowed-out' section.  It's in place during this shot....

....but it's then missing during the shots of Luke backing up to the end of the 'gantry'....

....and then it's back in place again during the first 'close-ups' of Luke....

....it's the thin 'tubing' right behind Luke's left hand here.... 

....and it's still in place during this shot, as Luke swings around....

....and is also in place during this next 'close-up' (above his head)....

....but it's then missing again during the rest of the more extreme 'close-ups' of Luke that follow (it seems that the 'tubing' has been differently positioned in these particular shots)....

....and it's also then missing from this shot too, when Luke falls off the 'gantry'....

...and finally, it's missing from the initial 'overhead' view of the 'duel' too, as seen in this comparison - http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7417/trailercomp40.jpg

A little better consistency throughout with this 'tubing' would be a really neat touch, if possible.

By the way, one of my favourite subtle tweaks in this sequence is how you've now re-positioned the 'rocket'-shaped 'gantry' detail to match the full-size 'prop', as seen in that comparison.

Great stuff!