ImperialFighter

dphirschler said:

Forgive me if this has been addressed already.  I am still trying to catch up.  But as I looked at the stills in this post I noticed the "spokes" or support beams above in the skylight.  From the outside, it looks like there may be about 12-14 spokes.  But from inside, looks like 25-30 spokes.  Am I seeing that right, and is it worth fixing (or even possible)?

You'll be glad to know this one is being fixed too dphirschler.

Seems adywan is removing the outermost top structure when we first see Leia through the window, so the inside number of 'spokes' will seem fine now. 

Rogue Leader said:

never noticed it before but what's the blinking red light out side the door when the get it open to the landing pad on the ground? When the camera switches view the light is no longer there... what the hell is it?

Ah, you've brought up a little something I was intending to go into soon (with screenshots) to do with this particular aspect.

I reckon that pool of flashing red light that shows on the ground when R2 opens the doorway is supposed to be....the reflection of the flashing red light that is seen in-between the 2 white lights directly outside the top of the exterior of these doorways.

That's my take on it anyway, as the flashing red (middle) light above the doorways can be seen in some of the shots where we first see Lando greet our heroes, and when Leia and Chewie just miss Slave 1 taking off.  I was going to ask if adywan could subtly include it in-between the 2 white doorway lights on his very nicely-coloured shot of the Bespin building where the stormtroopers come out firing, as it still seems to be missing.

Thing is, the point where R2 initially opens the door leading to the Falcon seems to be the only shot where any kind of red flashing 'reflection' was introduced.  Although the small flashing middle red lights are unlikely to cast such an impressive 'reflection' on the ground, I kinda think it works okay 'stylistically' in that particular shot.  But it could be that I'm just used to seeing it over the years....  ;)

A fabulous clip adywan, and thanks for the 'comparison' version too.

Seeing more of your adjusted Bespin City/skies in motion was a real treat.  Interesting to see the latest changes you've made to the 'Falcon blasting off' shot compared to how it looked in your 'Empire:Revisited' final trailer, and so great to see the additional little touches such as C3PO's head not knocking the red light off the Falcon, or appearing behind Chewie before it cuts to R2 dragging him.

It was a real treat to get another preview before this is eventually released.  :)

vaderios said:

I even like to suggest ady can place your posts to the extras so we can all see the deep analysis from shot to shot and how ESB:R came out :

Lol, thing is, like everyone else, there's been a few things along the way in the past that I've misinterpreted wrongly.  And I'm looking forward to doubleofive's/adywan's comprehensive 'comparison shot' changes eventually anyway to show the differences. 

I was interested to read the recent views on the 'Falcon approaching Executor above Bespin' sequence.  My own problem with it is to do with the actual flightpath of the Falcon and TIEs mid-way through it, after they initially veer sharply away from the direction of the Executor.   You'd really need to watch the actual footage for a better idea of the movement and timing, but here's a rough idea of what I mean.  Put the kettle on, this may take a while -

1.  ....we start with the Falcon rapidly escaping into space from the direction of Bespin, being closely chased by 3 TIEs, as shown below....

....and we then immediately cut to the shot below as they go off into the distance....

2.

....and we then immediately cut to the shot below where Leia can now see that the Falcon is rapidly approaching a distant Stardestroyer up ahead in the general distance.  She gives a 'heads up' to Lando and Chewie who are pre-occupied with evading the TIEs and preparing for lightspeed....

3.

....and we then immediately cut to the shot below where the Executor is revealed....and the Falcon suddenly banks sharply to the right, away from the direction of it.... 

At the rate the Falcon seems to be travelling throughout the sequence, it would end up uncomfortably near the Executor in moments if they continued ahead at this point....although we can't tell how fast the Executor is moving forward at this point though....

4.

(While I agree that the 2 additional SE shots of 'Vader's shuttle landing on Executor bay' and then 'Vader stepping out' totally ruined the original flow and pace (and music) of the Falcon/TIEs chase from Bespin....I do really like the new juxtaposition of the 2 other SE 'shuttle approach' shots that were inserted in-between where the Falcon initially approaches Luke hanging underneath the city.  While I never had a problem with just eventually seeing Vader aboard the Executor after his 'Bring my shuttle!" line, the 2 brief shots (and music) of the 'shuttle approach' worked nicely for me (apart from the Executor's non-blue colour mismatch!), and made for some neat contrasting visuals at that point I thought.  However, since it seems that those 2 shots are going to be removed from 'Empire:Revisited' as well, then the distant shot of the Executor through the Falcon's cockpit windows reverts to being our first reminder since a long while that it's still around....and becomes the prominent 'UH, OH...' shot of it once again, which still works fine for me)

....and we then immediately cut to the shot below where the TIEs are continuing to chase closely after the Falcon....

5.

So far so good....but it's at this next point where the course of the Falcon and following TIEs in the current footage begins to be problematic for me....because when we then immediately cut to the shot below, it seems to show the Falcon is still veering to the right (judging by the movement of the starfield)....implying it's turning even further away from the Executor's position we saw earlier....

6.

....after shot 6 we then immediately cut away to a few seconds of reaction shots of Chewie, Leia, and Lando....

....and after that we then immediately cut to the shot below which shows the Falcon still continuing to veer to the right (according to the movement of the starfield)....giving the impression that it continued to do so during the previous shots when we focused on Chewie, Leia, and Lando....and is now still turning away even further away from Executor's position that we saw earlier....

7.

....after shot 7 we then immediately cut away to a few more seconds of reaction shots of Chewie, Leia, and Lando....

....and after that we then to cut the shot below of the Executor travelling along at an unknown speed....

8.

....and we then immediately cut to the shot below, where Vader is back aboard....

9.

....after shot 9 we then immediately cut away to a lot of various reaction shots of Vader and his crew aboard the Executor, and the crew aboard the Falcon....

....and after that we then cut to the shot below of the Falcon heading directly towards the Executor which is across it's flightpath now again!....

10.

Because approx. 1 minute 15 seconds has elapsed since the Falcon initially veered around to the right starting at shot 4, and ends up headed directly towards the Executor again at this point, it always seems to me that the Falcon must have continuously turned around to it's right (along with the following TIEs presumably) in the intervening period....and gone completely in a 'full-circle'! 

(Unfortunately, that screwy kind of Falcon/TIEs flightpath seems a little laughable, although that's always the impression that the existing footage gives me.  And although it's unknown how fast the Executor is going/speeding up/slowing down in shot 4 onwards....the possible alternative that it has somehow caught up with, overtaken, then managed to zip around immediately in front of the continuously right-turning Falcon by the time we get to shot 10, also seems improbable....  Another conclusion is that there was 1 minutes 15 seconds worth of wild 'zig-zagging' TIE 'herding' going on in-between shots 4 and 10, but that isn't really obvious in the existing footage either....)

....we then immediately cut to the shot below where Vader watches the Falcon nearing the Executor....

11.

....and then after some shots of Vader communicating 'telepathically' with Luke, we eventually see the Falcon and TIEs flying very close to the side of the Executor, before overtaking it. 

Although they seem to be travelling more rapidly than the Executor at the point they pass closely past the prow of it (just before the Falcon manages 'hyperspace'), I'm never sure if it's because the smaller ships are faster than the Executor, or if the Executor has ended up slowing down at this point before it tries to get a tractor-beam lock on the Falcon.... 

No matter, as I'm more interested in the Falcon/TIEs flightpath in-between shots 4 and 10.... 

Of course, judging by adywan's previous comments, he's planning some great alterations after shot 10 for his version, such as the unfinished ones seen below.  This was previewed a while back (but could be changed a little), and gives an idea of where he's going with it -

So I'm going to be very interested to see if ady keeps the same kind of footage in-between shots 4 and 10, or somehow adjusts things a little here too....

Unless there are more changes to this overall sequence being planned, there are a couple of things I'd personally like to see done to the existing footage.  I'd like to see shot 4 be given a slightly different view of the Falcon's 'cockpit' interior, as suggested by vaderios in this 'mock-up' he showed a while back -

....but only if the view is deemed incorrect, and that we should indeed have seen a portion of Lando, Leia, and Chewie in it from this angle.  If it's indeed a continuity flub, then I really like vaderios's notion of a 'nearer' view of the 'cockpit' at this point.  As far as any new positioning/direction/size of the distant Executor, I'm okay with the current one, although I would like something along the lines of what vaderios has shown.

My other amendment would be to perhaps have a quick TIE laserbolt passing close by on the left of the beginning of this 'cockpit' shot....to help sell the fact that the Falcon is being 'herded' towards the prow of the Executor....and why it has banked to the front of it....

In fact, a passing TIE laserbolt or 2 during shots 6 and 7 would perhaps help too, in conjunction with the whole sequence....

30 years already.  Seems like just yesterday....

adywan said:

I will be posting a clip, however, on May 21st for the 30th anniversary of ESB

So not long now....  :)

Looking forward to seeing another glimpse of completed 'Revisited' magic.

vaderios said:

And i cant find the pic i made showing it of(damn)

vaderios, I've caught up with the last fortnight's worth of comments since I last got a chance to look in, and hope to throw in a few thoughts of my own to do with the whole 'Falcon approaching Executor over Bespin' sequence that was brought up a few pages ago.  I've managed to find that particular 'mock-up' of yours, which I'll include when I go into my issues with the existing footage.

Great work on the latest Hoth costume detailing adywan, and good to see you've successfully 'tinted' those 'goggles' Rogue Leader!  Terrific stuff all round.  While I'm not expecting to see 'extreme close-up's of the additional/replacement ground troops, it's sure nice to know that the details will be there in new footage.  :)

Nice idea gurgle1624, although as far as the existing movie footage goes, it always seemed quite natural to me that a naturally-suspicious Han would say something like that anyway when he's notified that some unknown 'metal' thing has suddenly been located on an otherwise technologicaly-barren planet, which then transmits something that 'language expert' C3P0 suggests could be an 'Imperial code'....

Heh, I was actually also going to post those exact tunic shots that you've just shown on the left and right of your example adywan, as well as a few more that come afterwards, but my post was already quite lengthy. 

I'll go into the rest of what I think when I get a little more time, but let's just say for now, that the shot of Luke with his arm in a sling (when he's sensing Vader as the Falcon nears the Executor) is showing skin too, and looks similar to Luke's tunic shoulder when his hand is cut off.

Thanks for clarifying your thoughts on the Vader swipes at the doorway too, and very much looking forward to your anniversary clip later this month.  :)

I was thinking more along the lines of a blackened scorchmark more to the left to better match where the tip of the lightsaber seems to hit in the 'distant' shot vaderios....and where's my railing 'cut'/'scorch' then?  ;)

Seriously, I'm glad you showed that new mock-up to give a rough idea again, as I couldn't remember where your original one was either.

Re:the tunic shoulder corellian77.  I'd have to say that there's definately some different things going on with that left tunic shoulder over and above the few shots I posted back there.  There are various shots where it seems to be very much unripped overall compared to where his hand gets cut off.  That's what I see anyway.

By the way, there was a bit of conjecture a while back about what happened to Luke's hand and saber during this sequence.  Never mind that, what I want to know is, what became of those large 'gantry posts' that Vader chopped off first?....

I'll give my own take on all that in the context of the existing footage when I can get around to something else concerning Luke's fall sometime.  :)

adywan, here's a couple of other things to do with the 'gantry duel' sequence that I wanted to mention too, in case they can be tweaked a little -

1.  ....at this point below, near the end of the walkway, the railing on the left-side of Vader is intact until it's struck by a lightsaber....

2.  ....and when Vader passes that point, we now see that a 'cut' has been left through the railing.  Although there are small 'gaps' between the tops of the railing anyway, this one has definately been added after the lightsaber strikes....

( it can be seen more clearly in this bigger version - http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/3606/screenshot147.png )

3.  ....and then moments later, the railing on Vader's right-side is struck by a lightsaber too....

4.  ....which leaves a 'cut' through that railing as well....

( bigger version of shot above - http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/24/screenshot167.png )

5.  ....however, just jumping back a little, when Vader first swings his lightsaber downwards at Luke in the shot below, it seems he strikes a railing first....

6.  ....and then strikes against the side of the doorway when he takes another swing at Luke, who ducks....

7.  ....thing is, when vaderios previously did a mock-up ages ago showing two 'scorch marks' near the doorway in the 'close-up' shot below, I remember agreeing this would be a neat addition, but that there should perhaps only be a single 'scorch mark' from Vader's swing in shot 6.

However, if you agree that Vader does strike the railing first, then when we cut to the 'close-up' below, it would be good to see some kind of 'cut'/'singe' damage indicating that too, similar to the damage seen on the railings moments later in shots 2 and 4....

The current 'gap' seen in the 'close-up' railing here is part of the actual railing design, but perhaps it can be made slightly bigger, and 'sheared-off'/'singed' somewhat?

....and perhaps the same thing could also be done to this shot below which comes a little later (just before Luke hits Vader's shoulder armor), where Vader has just swiped down at a point where there is also already a narrow 'gap' in the railing, yet it remains exactly the same thin width after the sparks have gone....

This next point which involves Luke's tunic always seems really jarring to me, but it's something else you may just be able to improve a little -

....although the slight raggedness on Luke's tunic seems to be different during certain shots, both shoulder seams are generally intact in the run-up to getting his hand cut off....

....but when we cut to the shot below, the tunic he's wearing here has suddenly developed a severe rip on his left shoulder....

....yet when we cut back to various shots of Luke afterwards, his left tunic shoulder is now suddenly intact and sewn up again....

If Luke's bare shoulder 'skin' could be made to match the colouration of the tunic somehow during that particular shot, then things would be less jarring I reckon.  See what you think anyway.

Welcome aboard Nicholas.  Just to let you know that I seem to remember adywan confirming somewhere that he will indeed be making Vader's saber retract during one of those shots you mentioned, which will be a neat improvement.  Can't remember which shot he said unfortunately, but we'll see.

brash_stryker said:

Actually, I think sky's version is the one Ady expressed interest in using. If I remember rightly, sky thought that Angel's would be a pain to pull off in motion.

Ah, I see.  I thought adywan was putting an ESB-themed version of sky's original moving 'adywan' intro. on the actual edit, and perhaps using a mainly-'static' version of vaderios's mock-up on the 'extras' disc.  Sorry for any confusion thorr.

Just so you know thorr, this great logo was mocked-up a while back, and adywan mentioned he'd perhaps like to use it at the beginning of his seperate 'extras' disc, which would be neat.

Really love that parked Slave 1 there! :)

ImperialFighter said:

And because it's impossible to find the time to spread things out here on a regular basis, it sometimes takes me more than one post to cover several things at a time, when I get the opportunity.  And as I'm hoping to bring up a few more things yet for adywan's opinion/consideration, this will probably continue to be the case.

I'm already in the middle of drafting the next thing I'd like to bring up, as it happens.  I'm unable to show things on a daily basis, but considering I've eventually covered plenty in the past when I said I would do so, you can take it that I'll get around to these other things too, when it's convenient.

There's months to go, and I'll bring them up when I can over the next few weeks.  Hopefully I can go into the next thing over the next few days, and I'm a long way off thinking about anything ROTJ-related, as are others I'm sure.

Bingowings said:

Didn't I agree with you that in my full unedited post sugar?

Your post sure didn't come across that way to me, but you may have meant different compared to how you worded it, so I'll move along.

....and I think I'll let adywan announce whether he thinks anyone should bother saying much else on this thread, or not.

As there's still a few months before this edit is ready, I'm still interested in anything 'Empire'-related that someone following this thread may yet want to comment on, whether adywan gets a chance for updates or not.

Bingowings said:

Unless some new as yet undiscovered flaw in the original can be spotted I think in terms of ESB:R all that can be done in terms of contributing ideas has been done.

Well I can't speak for others, but I know that I've certainly got a few other things in mind to bring up, that I don't remember being covered yet.

I'm sure that 2D versions will always be around, and that many movies will probably never get 'dimensionalized'.

I'm with you, I wouldn't particularly want to see 'Casablanca' in 3D, but something like 'Forbidden Planet' could be fun from the back catalog.

Anyways, it seems that Ridley is actually planning two 3D 'alien' prequels now! - http://www.collider.com/2010/04/23/ridley-scott-confirms-alien-prequel-will-be-shot-in-3d/

Well Warbler, it's certainly going to be interesting to see just how many older 2D movies will end up being 'converted' in the next few years, not just for 'theatrical' re-release but for the upcoming '3D blu-ray' format too.

There's plenty of past movies that I'd be keen to see 'dimensionalized', as long as it's not done in a slapdash way.  I guess it comes down to if you like the effect or not.  Personally speaking, the 'conversion' technology amazes me, but like anything else, some companies will manage to do it better than others I guess.  It's still early days though, and things will hopefully improve as time goes on. 

I'm especially interested to see how the 'home viewing' side of things pans out eventually, where the 3D format is concerned.

It seems like 'AVATAR' is still breaking records - http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3icc341acc4f9c061e3f5665cc99fe23f2

By the way, as I mentioned in my previous post, one of the upcoming 3D movies I'm most looking forward to is the 'ALIEN' prequel.  Here's a rough idea of what it's going to focus on, that I've just come across - http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2010/04/23/alien-prequel-update-ridley-scott/

As 'Avatar' has just been given it's first dvd/blu-ray release, I thought I'd link to a few 3D-related items here again.

I recently caught my first 'polarized' live-action 2D-3D 'conversion' in the shape of Tim Burton's 'Alice in Wonderland', so I've now got an initial opinion about the process compared to 'Avatar's.  After I've braved the much-critisized 'quickie-conversion' of 'Clash of the Titans' in a couple of days, I'll post some thoughts.

Something that was unexpectedly shown before the 'Alice' showing I saw, was a 3D version of this 'Doctor Who' preview trailer which I'd happened to see on tv the day before.  It was 'converted' it seems, and looked amazingly effective I thought - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpbmMhNe6aA 

In the meantime, here's some stuff on the whole 2D-3D thing that I've come across recently -

Here's an interview from someone involved with the 'conversion' of 'Alice' -

http://marketsaw.blogspot.com/2010/03/legend-3d-founder-barry-sandrew-phd.html

Here's how the 2D-3D process seems to be achieved -

http://www.slate.com/id/2243118/?from=rss

....though not necessarily by the 'Prime Focus' process  -

http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/movies/article/788053--canadian-effect-whiz-whips-clash-of-the-titans-into-3d?bn=1

Here's some reactions to 'quickie-conversions' in general - 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/03/movies/03threed.html?src=mv

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118017453.html?categoryid=13&cs=1&ref=bd_film

Here's some snippets to do with two upcoming 3D movies that I'm definately keen to see eventually -

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2010/03/tron-legacy-director-we-are-on-a-new-server-now.html

http://www.shadowlocked.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=115:exclusive-alien-prequel-will-be-3d&catid=38:movie-news

Here's some more 3D-related thoughts from Cameron -

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/technologylive/post/2010/03/james-cameron/1

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/04/20/james-cameron-talks-to-ew-about-avatar-dvd-the-sequel-and-the-future-of-3-d-and-why-clash-of-the-titans-isnt-it

Personally, I'm hoping all the completed 'Future Earth' shots are going to be incorporated amongst the 6 minutes extra in the 'extended' version.  They're the ones I'd most like to see -

Here's an idea of what's in store for 'Avatar 2' -

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2010/04/james-cameron-talks-the-enironment-the-avatar-sequel-and-more.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+The_Hero_Complex+(The+Hero+Complex

Here's the latest on the PS3 3D upgrade for gamers -

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/consoles/ps3-won-t-get-3d-blu-ray-support-in-june-683702

http://uk.gear.ign.com/articles/108/1085559p1.html

It looks like the 3D tv launch is off to a promising start -

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601093&sid=auzWxPLpD9SE

....seems like 3D might be the future of 'home viewing' after all -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeOm-V6GJ7w

TheBoost said:

I'm just overwhelmed that James FREAKING Cameron, one of the Big wigs of Hollywood Big Wigs actually comes out and says what Lucas is doing altering and burying the OT is crap

 I wonder if he's signed the petition yet?....

TMBTM said:

Wait, question: I thought the 6 minutes added to Avatar are on the DVD released these days? Then an extended version will hit the theater with, I heard,  12 or even 40 minutes more?

Am I wrong?

'Avatar's' theatrical re-release will have only 6 mins. extra it seems, which will be incorporated into the eventual extended blu-ray too.  However, there will be quite a lot of unfinished (unfortunately) footage available on that more extensive blu-ray too.  Approx. 30 to 35 mins. worth according to Cameron, which can be watched in a seperate, longer, alternative version. 

Full details here - http://www.collider.com/2010/03/24/james-cameron-interview-avatar-blu-ray-also-talks-titanic-3d-and-avatar-2/

As far as the 'Star Wars' blu-rays are concerned, no matter what GL ends up adding to his latest 'Special Editions' of the O.T., I'm guessing they'll still look blue....

The 'page change' function is still definately messed up for some reason.  I noticed it a few days ago too.

For instance, I still can't go backwards (or forwards) on adywan's ESB:Revisited thread whenever I get to the bottom of a page, and have to scroll back up to the top to do it, as the function is still okay there.

Strange thing is, it seems this is the case on other topics too, yet some others are unaffected.