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INv8r_ZIM

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Join date
3-Aug-2004
Last activity
14-Feb-2016
Posts
275

Post History

Post
#80286
Topic
Info Wanted: German HDTV rip
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/80286/action/topic#80286
Time
Dude, YOU'RE the one who bitched about colour correction being done in other people's projects. Just because you can SAY "strawman", doesn't mean you GOT one. What you are talking about is no less "destructive" to the original elements than colour correction, and in fact, changes the content of the captured image, which is more destructive. I think I'm beginning to see your definition of "alteration", and it seems to be pretty fucking maleable to support whatever you happen to like. Either be consistent in YOUR definitions, or be silent on the subject.

IN ANY EVENT...

My question was about the HDTV capture, and since NEITHER of you have said a WORD about it for two pages. Kindly SHUT THE FUCK UP AND TAKE IT ELSEWHERE.
Post
#79615
Topic
Info Wanted: German HDTV rip
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/79615/action/topic#79615
Time
Oh man, you're a freaking MARTYR now...and it becomes more and more obvious that you HAVE never actually attempted anything like one of these restoration projects, and likely, never will be constructive enough to. And DEAR GOD! Are you suggesting running FILTERS OVER THE ORIGINAL FOOTAGE?! Wouldn't that be an alteration of the original material?
Post
#78767
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/78767/action/topic#78767
Time
And I totally went off on you for no real reason, Laserman, sorry about that dude. Yes, to totally do the job is quite alot of footage, which I'm not even gonna TRY and tackle...again, partially because it's too much work for too little gain, partially because some of it I like, so for me, it is just a few seconds here and there, so no biggie. Anyways, good luck with your job, It'll be interesting to see what everyone who tries this comes up with
Oh, and the problem with Jabba 2004? Plain and simple. ILM had North York Steve Williams (that's basically Toronto to you Yanks) who was trained in traditional animation and art before ever touching a computer, head the Jabba animation. Better skills, better foundation, and an understanding of weight as it applies to animtion, better results. Rush CG from the "B" team...floaty, crappy movement, with no sense of mass...dreadful. An they did that ('97 SE), I THINK in either Maya or XSI...it was something totally off the shelf though, with a couple of custom plugs written at ILM. But just a lesson that software doesn't make the animation better




Grisan...GOOD GOD THOSE ARE AMAZING! Great quality video in those clips, thank you SO much for sharing them!!!
Post
#78661
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/78661/action/topic#78661
Time
Well, as has been repeatedly said, yes, it's noticeable. By the way, did I mention it's noticeable? Oh, you know, I find the drop in quality noticeable. Hey, the drop in quality is noticeable! OHMYGODthereisanoticeabledropinqualitybetweentheDVDandLD! It's been pointed out over and over and over again, there's no reason to rehash it. It's not a stunning revalation you're making. Most of the people working on these projects do not have access to a post house, guys, so we do what we can with what we have. Most of us ALSO do not have a crap load of downtime waiting for renders to finish, and so, work on it when we can. And since the whole purpose of this site is the OT, and the whole purpose of this part of the forum is OT preservation and restoration, why on earth would you be surprised and derisive that this attempt to put together the OT is being attempted? While I respect your efforts, Laserman, please try to do the same.
Yes, there is a sacrifice to be made, having to accept drops in quality in a few spots. However, this is a definite choice to be made between working exclusively with lower resolution LD transfer (and, despite your expertise, you will NEVER cull more detail out of it than the DVD transfer...it's just not there), making more Franken-shots up in Combustion, Avid, Jaleo, or whatever you choose to use, to add to LFLs butchering of some sequences, and accepting drops in quality for a few seconds of footage over the course of a 2 hour film, but retaining the higher quality DVD transfer overall. That's really what we're talking about here; a couple of seconds overall, which, when colour balanced to the rest of the DVD, are just honestly not as offensive to me personally as newly manufactured footage which tries to improve the existing product (wait, isn't this where it all started going wrong in '97?). You're more than welcome to try whatever works for you, especially if the momentary quality drop is more of a problem for you than the integrity of the editing, photography, and pacing of the film as a whole, (and probably, it's the particular attitude which should be expected from someone who's a post professional - me, I prefer the '97 Jabba sequece to the DVD version, because while the thing LOOKS better on disc, the animation is not as good...go figure, I'm an animator...we've all got our own ideas of what's important) but so far, I'm fairly happy with the results. Again, let me stress that my project at least, is NOT a complete DE-SEing of the film, and will retain some SE shots; some becuase it's just too much work for not enough gain to fix them, some because I like the new shots.
As for the audio, for the sections I'm working on, it honestly has not been a huge problem so far. I've had to do a few splices, but generally, the 2.0 mix works once you put the problem areas back together the way they originally ran. And while some people are dead set on having a 5.1 mix, it was only created this year for the DVD, so I've got no problem loosing it.
Post
#78512
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/78512/action/topic#78512
Time
How about a copy of the receeding "Star Wars" logo from the title crawl. I had hoped to be able to use the Reivax SE LD transfer to repair the screwed up timing on the DVD titles, but it has a great big freakn' french subtitle burned in across the bottom of the frame! Has anyone tried and been able to get the video stream (angles 1 and 2, I think) to extract properly from the DVD? The title receeds at a proper pace on the foreign language angles (spanish and french), but every attempt to extract that angle from the VOB has resulted in a video stream that flicks back and forth between the turbo-charged english logo and foreign logos while it plays. Thoughts?
Post
#78373
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/78373/action/topic#78373
Time
Well, for one, the speeder now looks far too wide to me, and it drivesme nuts every time I see it...too each their own though

I was almost positive from the various LD transfers I've got that the transition starts in several places, vertically, across the whole image. I'll look again though. Yeah, when and if I get to Empire, McDiarmid HAS to go, as do the crappy new wampa shots...that's pretty far in the future for me though, dunno how the rest of you guys are getting on. I've almost finsihed getting the Reivax ANH DVD though, so I'm looking forward to seeing if any of it can be used to fix some of the DVD specific issues.
Post
#78044
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/78044/action/topic#78044
Time
Okay, started responding before your edit made it clear what shot you were talking about. I'm just not sure what the point would be. The only thing that needs to be done to that sequence is to replace the "Bet you have" shot, which is trimmed in the SE, and doesn't play well if you just cut the exchange of fire.


Oh, and Zion, "I WANT CHAINSAW HANDS! BzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!"
Post
#78036
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/78036/action/topic#78036
Time
Well I said, actually that the drop is noticeable. To repeat, it's still a polished turd, just a better smelling one. The question is, what's more objectionable; A clean, hi-res transfer of the films with occasional second-long drops in quality, or a clean, hi-res transfer of the film where Han springboards off Jabba's tail, Han does the funky Chicita head bob thing ("Oh no she DI-INT!") to avoid crappy laserfire, Rontos scamper playfully to and fro causing hijinks and hilarity in Mos Eisley, to sample just a portion of the SE menu. So far, I think the drop in quality is more palatable to me.
Also, I'll make the plea here for someone with LD capture ability to make the bits and pieces available somehow. It would help enormously to have the raw captures instead of the compressed MPEG files to work with as well.
Post
#78030
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/78030/action/topic#78030
Time
What might actually be REALLY useful is if some LD equipped people were willing to make avaiable their raw capture footage of just certain problem areas. I'm thinking the one shot of Han before he fires first in the cantina; the shot of Garrindan which in the OT transitions to Ben and Luke "If the ship's as fast as he's boasting...", but which in the SE has an iris-in on Jabba at the Falcon. That kind of stuff. Just some key parts of shots where it's impossible to use the DVD footage. Nothing lengthy, so as to save on upload time for anyone generous enough to do it.

Well, I've actually been thinking it's about time to start a DE-SEing the DVDs thread, actually. There seems to be a greater and greater number of people working on projects along these lines at the moment, and there are some common issues everyone is going to have to face. It's true, we're all polishing turds to some extent, but at least these turds aren't going to smell quite so bad. And, since most people working on these things aren't professional editors and post people, nor have Avid desks in their houses, it makes sense to share what we learn, and have a place to go for help if we're stuck on something. I agree though that it's unfortunetly going to require more work than just swapping vobs, you're just going to have to learn some basic editing

I'll kick it off:

Currently working on VOB 2_3 and 2_4 of the ANH hope disc. This is everything from Ben seeing Leias' hologram to some random stuff on the DS. I started here, becuase it's where the most obvious and heinous crap needs to be fixed. So, where to begin? Well, obviously the Greedo scene needs to be restored, so that's where I began. I'm using the DVDs and trying to piece them together with the LD footage available on ISOMIX, Anamorphic, and TR47 sets.

General Problems: The DVD is cropped much tighter than the LD transfers, PLUS the aspect ration is wonky. Any use of the LD stuff is going to first need to be corrected as best you can to fit the DVD (since that's the better resolution footage, I've used that as my benchmark). Lowry also did a bunch of colour correcting (and, I'll use that term loosely...), which throws the footage WAY off of the LD colours. Oh yeah, and it's pretty random from scene to scene. Enjoy. This may be the trickiest part of the edit. You ALSO may run into some weird problems between VOBS. For example, When I open 2_3 and 2_4 in Vegas, and splice them together, for some reason I'm missing quite a few frames in the shot of Han closing the hatch, and running to the cockpit. I have no idea why this should be, and would LOVE someone to suggest a solution!!!!!!!!! I know the footage is there, obviously, but it simply doesn't work properly in Vegas. Finally, you're probably going to have to create a new audio track. This isn't a big thing, especially if, like me, you don't care about loosing the 5.1 mix. If you're on the right track, usually you'll be able to simply drop in the audio from one of the LD transfers. For later fixes, like the battle of Yavin, I anticipate more problems as I try to cut certain CG shots, and leave others...but that's the future.


Han Shoots First:

Diagnosis and Treatment -
At first glance it looks like you can just cut out the wide angle shot of the exchange of fire, drop in some version of the OT audio, and be done with it. Well, sadly that's not quite right. The "yes, I'll bet you have" shot has been trimmed both comming and going. The front end of the shot, I GUESS, to speed up the pace of the sequence (why?), and the end of the shot because there is a frame or two of muzzle flash as HAN SHOOTS FIRST. The best solution I found so far is to stretch and crop two different LD transfers of the shot (I used the Anamorphic and the ISOMIX versions), composite them together (gave me a more solid looking image, I think), and use that to repalce the DVD shot. Finally, you'll either have to colour correct the LD footage or the entire cantina sequence from the DVD, as Lowry did some kinda weird shit in there, making Han look sunburned. There is obviously a drop in quality, BUT since it is a relatively short piece of footage, it isn't too badly noticeable as long as you get the colour correction close.

Lingering Symptoms -
Well, obviously it would be nice to have a better resolution LD transfer, but until that happens, we're pretty much stuck with the quality. One thing I am having difficulty with is an odd colour balancing issue. Everything looks fairly good EXCEPT the DVD footage has blue highlights on Hans' boot, while the corrected LD footage shows it dark red-brown. I'm stumped on how to fix this without ruining the rest of the balance, and would love some input from you guys here. If anyone knows where to post images for free, I'll put up some caps.


Garrindan

Diagnosis and Treatment -
This is the shot of Ben and Luke walking through Mos Eisley after selling the speeder, and being followed by Garrindan. In the OT, this does a blinds-transition to "If the ship's as fast as he's boasting, we ought to do well.". In the SE, this irises-in on Jabba at the Falcon. Further complicating this is that the two shots are colour balanced differently from each other, so a simple use of the LD footage doesn't work, unless you wish to use it for the ENTIRE section. Balancing this I again found tricky, trying to hit the bright green of the foliage in the first shot, while not washing everything in green.

Lingering Symptoms -
Well, this is still looking rough. I tried just repalcing the transition with LD material, but the cropping, aspect ratio, and colour are just so different from the DVD, that it's a sudden POP when you switch to from DVD to LD material. My edit replaces the WHOLE shot of Ben, Luke, and Garrindan with one copy of the LD footage, colour corrected to try and match the DVD footage. As the transition starts, I crossfade to ANOTHER copy of the footage, this one balanced to try and match the incomming shot. This crossfades out very quickly to the DVD footage of "If the ship's...", as the LD actually can be made to fit pretty neatly into the aspect ratio of the DVD footage here. So, you get a soft switch in resolution, but it's quick. It's by no means perfect, and still undergoing treatment, but at least I don't have to look at TPM Jabba anymore..man, somehow ILM managed to make the animation on him WORSE than the "original" SE....


COMMING SOON: The entrance to Mos Eisley, and the banishing of that digital elephant guy in the cantina.



Post
#77426
Topic
Info Wanted: video of Han's "Yes, I'll BET you Have..."
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/77426/action/topic#77426
Time
"ESB
Totally shadow out the emporer's face with his hood


ROTJ
Change anakin back or use some kind of morph from shaw's face into christensen's"


See, right here I already have an objection. I want McDiarmid OUT of ESB. His performance is bland, adds NOTHING to the trilogy, and Clive Revil's read was better, much more mysterious and menacing. Don't get me wrong; Love McDiarmid, think he's one of the best things about the PT, there's just no reason to replace Monkey-Woman.

And, dear god, no! No morph! Just put Shaw back into RotJ. Although, I think we may see something in RotS about why this change is made; probably due to Anakin's spiritual or physical death before the transformation, he OBVIOUSLY returns in Jedi to being Anakin, so I can't see any reason to use Christensen at ALL.



Hey, Rikter, any chance you would be willing to share the shot I'm speaking about? Dunno if you've got it just on a tape, or it's digitized...I'm not familiar with this P-Cut at all
Post
#77373
Topic
Info Wanted: German HDTV rip
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/77373/action/topic#77373
Time
Well, the thing is, I LIKE the pacing of the original, and the second or so of missing footage actually makes a difference. Oh well, I guess the search goes on. I wonder if the SE LD rips comming to MySpleen will contain the original sequence (as, I think the VHS versions did) in the short documentary intro to each film). Very frustrating, but there HAS to be a decent version of this shot SOMEWHERE.
Post
#77358
Topic
PCM to 5.1
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/77358/action/topic#77358
Time
Hmmm..I guess my only question would be, if the source is 2.0, the original mix for the film was 2 channel, wouldn't it be better to use the disc space the interpolated channels you've created take up to improve the video quality? Or is there not a huge difference between the size of the 2.0 and the faked-out 5.1?
Post
#77228
Topic
Info Wanted: video of Han's "Yes, I'll BET you Have..."
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/77228/action/topic#77228
Time
Well, I'm working on sort of a compromise edition. The major stuff, Han, Jabba, are going. Mos Eisley is going to severely trimmed. Some CG stuff IS staying though, 'cause I like it , and I'm repalcing 3 seconds of an FX sequence with new animation, becuase it's bugged the HELL out of me since 1978 when I saw the film. Like I said, a compromise edition; I don't have any real specific objections to a SE per-se, just the mostly haf-assed way they went about executing it, AND obviously, the fact that LFL is reluctant to release the OT un-molested. I WOULD however be delighted to compare notes on how everyone is tackling the various de-SEing problems (and there are some challenges!), but I doubt it'd be easy to get a consensus on my version of what people think should go and what should stay.
Post
#77186
Topic
Info Wanted: German HDTV rip
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/77186/action/topic#77186
Time
Really? I thought Greedo ALWAYS shot first.

Please, a LITTLE credit

No, the footage for the "Yes, I'll bet you have" take has a little bit a the beginning of the shot, and a little bit at the end which has been trimmed for the SE. I GUESS they tried to increase to pace of the sequence by trimming the beggining, and HAD to get rid of the muzzle flash (you do see this at the very end of the OT shot for about a frame of two, but it sells Han shooting nicely visually). The result is that, when the sequence is restored from the DVD footage, it feels a little rushed around this shot, and the audio goes out of sync. The easiest way to fix it is to use an OT version of that shot and edit it in, using an OT version of the soundtrack for the whole sequence. Works great, syncs perfectly, BUT the quality on the LD transfers is SO much lower than the official DVDs, that even after colour balancing to try and match the "sunburned Han" look of the DVDs, the "I'll bet you have" shot is incredibly jarring visually.