Hey it's me.

Sunni Muslims still have a portion of the population in Iran. And we're Bin Laden to be hidden deep within? You would never have found him. His MAIN grievance was with the U.S and had the majority Shi'ite discovered he was hiding within Iran do you really think they would've been more than willing to disclose that information? Your living in cloud cuckoo land if you do.

darth_ender said:

Hey, it's me. said:

Warbler said:

Hey, it's me. said:

Bin Laden could've disappeared for the rest of his days if he wished. He would never have been found. And where does he eventually end up being discovered ten years later? In a mansion in Pakistan watching TV. Nope I just don't buy it. Why not Iran? Plenty of sympathisers there who would've made sure he would've permanently disappeared.

I am sure he had people in Pakistan helping him.  He probably thought we've never send troops into Pakistan and so he thought he was safe. 

That's a very nonchalant thought from the worlds most wanted man. Iran was, and still is, a no go country for America. Your telling me after 10 years he became mildly blasé about the hunt for him and thought,'nah. Ill be alright here.' . ?

I've lost a lot of interest in this thread, but I will jump in and comment here.  Not all Muslims are the same.  Bin Laden was a very strict Sunni who once said that Afghanistan (prior to the fall of the Taliban, and also Sunni) was the only truly Islamic nation on earth.  Iran is a Shi'ite nation, and in fact thinks itself the keeper of the faith, as no other Shi'ite nation or ethnicity is as powerful or populous.  Pakistan was much more in line with his bin Laden's ideology, while Iran was not fond of him.  They were very different brands of Muslim (remember, most of the violence in Iraq was between Sunnis and Shi'ites), and bin Laden chose the one that he could see eye to eye with.

When it comes to being a Muslim enemy of America there are no divisions. Did the Shi'ites openly condemn 9/11 and distance themselves from Bin Laden? The whole thing was a Sunni deal and it doesn't concern us? They could've harboured him to ths very day and America would still be scratching its head asking,'where the fuck is he?'

Warbler said:

Hey, it's me. said:

The fact is the US and Pakistan have relations. Iran may aswell be North Korea to America.

nope, big difference between Iran and N. Korea:  N. Korea has nukes, Iran does not yet.

Hey, it's me. said:

It's a no go country, even for covert operations.

why?

Hey, it's me. said:

Shit it don't take much working out for an internationally wanted man no 1 on the list.

He had friends helping him in Pakistan.   Musharraf and Ali Zardari could not afford to help the US all the much, for fear of losing support.   It doesn't take much working out for that, either.

For starters wether a country has 'nukes' or not has literally nothing to do with it. Nothing. If America was discovered to be running covert ops deep in Iran, do you really think there wouldn't be massive repercussions? The powers in Iran would just simply say,'how dare you without our permission! and then carry on as normal like after berating a misbehaving child. Where were the repercussions of the Bin Laden raid from Pakistan? There were none because of the diplomatic relations, no matter who the hell supported him within the country. America has no relations, no support, no nothing in Iran. You are BITTER enemies. Bin Laden was a fool for hiding in Pakistan.

The fact is the US and Pakistan have relations. Iran may aswell be North Korea to America. It's a no go country, even for covert operations. Shit it don't take much working out for an internationally wanted man no 1 on the list.

Warbler said:

Hey, it's me. said:

So you thought the picture at the time was a staged fake anyway? Begs the question, why release a 'staged' fake picture of the most important people in America in a clearly fake Situation room? 

according to wiki's description of the photo:

"

U.S. President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, along with members of the national security team, receive an update on Operation Neptune's Spear, a mission against Osama bin Laden, in one of the conference rooms of the Situation Room of the White House, May 1, 2011"

 

so it wasn't the situation room itself, it was a conference room of the situation room.  

So something as momentous as that operation is only worthy of a conference room? Was the the actual Situation Room busy at the time with something more important? 

Warbler said:

Hey, it's me. said:

Warbler said:

Hey, it's me. said:

Bin Laden could've disappeared for the rest of his days if he wished. He would never have been found. And where does he eventually end up being discovered ten years later? In a mansion in Pakistan watching TV. Nope I just don't buy it. Why not Iran? Plenty of sympathisers there who would've made sure he would've permanently disappeared.

I am sure he had people in Pakistan helping him.  He probably thought we've never send troops into Pakistan and so he thought he was safe. 

That's a very nonchalant thought from the worlds most wanted man. Iran was, and still is, a no go country for America. Your telling me after 10 years he became mildly blasé about the hunt for him and thought,'nah. Ill be alright here.' . ?

 

Well remember for a portion of that time, Bush concentrated on Iraq and Bin Laden wasn't priority.    I would think Pakistan would be more no go than Iran.   There are alot of people who hate us in both countries, but only Pakistan has nukes(yet).   Sending troops into Pakistan is much more risky than sending troops into Iran.   For years in this very forum I asked why we couldn't send troops into mountain areas in Pakistan, where we thought he was, the response I got was

"no it would be too risky,  we would be risking nuclear war with Pakistan.   The people that don't like the US, would be up in arms and perhaps cause chaos and perhaps extreme US hating hardliners would take over Pakistan and then who knows what."   

maybe Bin Laden thought the same thing and therefor thought he was safe in Pakistan.   

The US has had diplomatic relations with Pakistan since the 1940's. There is no US/Iran diplomatic relationship. Where would you go?

So you thought the picture at the time was a staged fake anyway? Begs the question, why release a 'staged' fake picture of the most important people in America in a clearly fake Situation room? 

Warbler said:

Hey, it's me. said:

And was that really the Situation room they were all huddled in watching events unfurl? It looked like a Human Resources office and they were watching it on a portable meant for training videos. In fact a woman at the back looks confused, as if she's stumbled upon the gathering and is asking, 'is this Human Resources?' 

so?

So? Look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cabinet_Office_Briefing_Room.jpg#file. 

Thats the Situation room in London. Now your telling me the White House equivalent is a store cupboard in comparison? And not only that,someone was permitted to take pictures of all the deeply concerned officials and release them to the media? Come on.

Warbler said:

Hey, it's me. said:

Bin Laden could've disappeared for the rest of his days if he wished. He would never have been found. And where does he eventually end up being discovered ten years later? In a mansion in Pakistan watching TV. Nope I just don't buy it. Why not Iran? Plenty of sympathisers there who would've made sure he would've permanently disappeared.

I am sure he had people in Pakistan helping him.  He probably thought we've never send troops into Pakistan and so he thought he was safe. 

That's a very nonchalant thought from the worlds most wanted man. Iran was, and still is, a no go country for America. Your telling me after 10 years he became mildly blasé about the hunt for him and thought,'nah. Ill be alright here.' . ?

And was that really the Situation room they were all huddled in watching events unfurl? It looked like a Human Resources office and they were watching it on a portable meant for training videos. In fact a woman at the back looks confused, as if she's stumbled upon the gathering and is asking, 'is this Human Resources?' 

Bin Laden could've disappeared for the rest of his days if he wished. He would never have been found. And where does he eventually end up being discovered ten years later? In a mansion in Pakistan watching TV. Nope I just don't buy it. Why not Iran? Plenty of sympathisers there who would've made sure he would've permanently disappeared.

What a great film The Boys from Brazil is. 

^precisely^

TheBoost said:

Hey, it's me. said:

TheBoost said:

Hey, it's me. said:

TheBoost said:

I have a friend who is a massive cricket fan and has been to Bangladesh and Pakistan to see England play on tour. And he has quite reliably informed me that these countries are utter shitholes. No amount of holiday brochure pictures will change that. Nice try though.

Well, while I'm sure you're friends anecdotes are wonderfully insightful, reffering to the developing world, with their massive cities, internet, freeways, and hospitals, as "Stone Age shitholes" carries with it a nice little air of "These masses of brown savages sure should be glad we civilized folk invented fire. And they get it for free!" 

It's funny, because just about everything you're saying is what American's in the Southwest like to say about Mexicans. 

And while I cant speak to British immigration, it's the same thing that was said about Chinese immigrants, Irish immigrants, Afro-Carribean immigrants, and Easter European immigrants here in America.

 

In regards to my friend who has actually been to these places, his comments weren't anecdotal. Believe me.

You may need to look up what anecdotal means.

Were not weren't (tut) don't get me wrong, he wasnt entirely degrading of these places. He just said that the overwhelming majority seemed to live in squalor. And he couldn't get out of Islamabad quick enough. It's an extremely dangerous place. Anyway, I'm not anti-immigration. I just think it should be selective and should only apply to proven professional people or students who come to learn. Economic migrants cause problems when there are already big problems with unemployment, housing,for the native population. 

The thing that puzzles me is that here is the most wanted man in the world, and he's in fucking Pakistan? 10 years after 9/11 and the man's basically living round the corner in a mansion from where there are people still feverishly hunting him! Why the fuck he didnt shave the hair and beard off and move to Manchester and walk about in a Man Utd shirt is beyond me? They'd still be looking for him now lol.

TheBoost said:

Hey, it's me. said:

TheBoost said:

Hey, it's me. said:

TheBoost said:

Hey, it's me. said:

We don't want them to be more like us. We want them to understand and respect our culture and way of life if they choose to live here. Not throw their way of life from a Stone Age shithole of a country in our faces and say 'this is us, deal with it or fuck off.' That's UTTERLY disrespectful to the common people of the country that has provided you with free healthcare, housing, and free education for your children. It really is THAT simple.

 

And you are aware there are immigrants that have jobs and pay taxes right?

Yeah unfortunately the majority of Muslim immigrants in the UK arrive from Pakistan, Bangladesh, Somalia etc and these are not nice places. 

Mogadishu Somalia

Islamabad, Pakistan

 

Dhaka, Bangladesh

I have a friend who is a massive cricket fan and has been to Bangladesh and Pakistan to see England play on tour. And he has quite reliably informed me that these countries are utter shitholes. No amount of holiday brochure pictures will change that. Nice try though.

Well, while I'm sure you're friends anecdotes are wonderfully insightful, reffering to the developing world, with their massive cities, internet, freeways, and hospitals, as "Stone Age shitholes" carries with it a nice little air of "These masses of brown savages sure should be glad we civilized folk invented fire. And they get it for free!" 

It's funny, because just about everything you're saying is what American's in the Southwest like to say about Mexicans. 

And while I cant speak to British immigration, it's the same thing that was said about Chinese immigrants, Irish immigrants, Afro-Carribean immigrants, and Easter European immigrants here in America.

 

In regards to my friend who has actually been to these places, his comments weren't anecdotal. Believe me.

Hey, it's me. said:

Warbler said:

Hey, it's me. said:

Warbler said:

Hey, it's me. said:

Apologies but i was still a bit miffed after Warblers soapbox outburst lol

keep in mind that outburst happened because I was miffed that someone from UK called America an empire and compared us to the Soviet Union. 

If I said anything about the UK that was not true, please correct me.  

No you haven't to my reckoning. But I find the notion of America being the 'best' nation in the world pretty laughable to be honest Warbler. Misplaced patriotism just makes me laugh.

why is it misplaced?   What is wrong with loving and being proud of your country? 

Hey, it's me. said:

 

It was like when the news of Bin Ladens death came on the news and it showed scenes of celebration in Times Square. People breaking out into the obligatory chants of USA! USA!.

what was wrong with that?  The guy did 911, he murdered 3000 Americans and laughed about it.   He continued to taunt us and threat to murder more Americans.   I'm glad we got the bastard.  

What about many in the UK celebrating Thatcher's death? 

Hey, it's me. said:

It made my think if they were to turn the cameras on there at any time that's what would be happening (chuckle)

nope.

Hey, it's me. said:

So Bin Ladens dead. Well that's the trouble over with then. Sorted.

Bin Laden's death didn't solve all our problems, but it did give the friends and families of the 3000 that died on 911 some justice.  It removed a major thorn in our side.   It sent a message to anyone else thinking of f___ing with us. "you attack the United States, we will come after you and make you pay.   You will not get away with it, we will get you no matter how long it takes."   I have no doubt, if we hadn't stopped him, he would have eventually carried out another attack.

btw, what problems did Thatcher's death solve?

Firstly, Thatcher.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/14/thatcher-death-the-great-disrupter

The guy did 9/11. Did he really?

http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/jared/madein.htm

Warbler said:

Hey, it's me. said:

Warbler said:

Hey, it's me. said:

Apologies but i was still a bit miffed after Warblers soapbox outburst lol

keep in mind that outburst happened because I was miffed that someone from UK called America an empire and compared us to the Soviet Union. 

If I said anything about the UK that was not true, please correct me.  

No you haven't to my reckoning. But I find the notion of America being the 'best' nation in the world pretty laughable to be honest Warbler. Misplaced patriotism just makes me laugh.

why is it misplaced?   What is wrong with loving and being proud of your country? 

Hey, it's me. said:

 

It was like when the news of Bin Ladens death came on the news and it showed scenes of celebration in Times Square. People breaking out into the obligatory chants of USA! USA!.

what was wrong with that?  The guy did 911, he murdered 3000 Americans and laughed about it.   He continued to taunt us and threat to murder more Americans.   I'm glad we got the bastard.  

What about many in the UK celebrating Thatcher's death? 

Hey, it's me. said:

It made my think if they were to turn the cameras on there at any time that's what would be happening (chuckle)

nope.

Hey, it's me. said:

So Bin Ladens dead. Well that's the trouble over with then. Sorted.

Bin Laden's death didn't solve all our problems, but it did give the friends and families of the 3000 that died on 911 some justice.  It removed a major thorn in our side.   It sent a message to anyone else thinking of f___ing with us. "you attack the United States, we will come after you and make you pay.   You will not get away with it, we will get you no matter how long it takes."   I have no doubt, if we hadn't stopped him, he would have eventually carried out another attack.

btw, what problems did Thatcher's death solve?

Firstly, Thatcher.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/14/thatcher-death-the-great-disrupter

Warbler said:

Hey, it's me. said:

Mrebo said:

I don't understand those who make a display of themselves over an event that doesn't make a change in their lives. Whether it's the death of bin Laden or a win by your favorite sports team (especially when people riot). And I really don't understand you British sports nuts. At least the death of bin Laden was somewhat more substantial than a soccer/rugby/cricket match. While we're on the topic, what about British girls? The girls I saw out on a Saturday night in Bath was a little alarming. Of course, there are notably attractive women (Karen Gillan comes to mind). Maybe I was just unlucky.

Football in the UK is very much a working class/tribal sport. Most working class men have pretty stressful,drudge filled lives during the working week and going to see your local team come Saturday is a good way to let off a bit of steam. Love for the game, love for your team. Your going to get your idiots who go over the top with violence but that's just society I'm afraid. What was it about the girls you saw that alarmed you btw? We're they drunk? 

but there is nowhere near the amount of violence at sporting events in America.  I have seen documentaries on hooliganism in the UK, its completely insane. 

As I've said the majority of fans are passionate and vociferous but sensble. Offcourse there are idiots who take it too far. But Its nowere near as much of a problem as it used to be in the 70's and 80's. 

TheBoost said:

Hey, it's me. said:

TheBoost said:

Hey, it's me. said:

We don't want them to be more like us. We want them to understand and respect our culture and way of life if they choose to live here. Not throw their way of life from a Stone Age shithole of a country in our faces and say 'this is us, deal with it or fuck off.' That's UTTERLY disrespectful to the common people of the country that has provided you with free healthcare, housing, and free education for your children. It really is THAT simple.

 

And you are aware there are immigrants that have jobs and pay taxes right?

Yeah unfortunately the majority of Muslim immigrants in the UK arrive from Pakistan, Bangladesh, Somalia etc and these are not nice places. 

Mogadishu Somalia

Islamabad, Pakistan

 

Dhaka, Bangladesh

I have a friend who is a massive cricket fan and has been to Bangladesh and Pakistan to see England play on tour. And he has quite reliably informed me that these countries are utter shitholes. No amount of holiday brochure pictures will change that. Nice try though.

Mrebo said:

I don't understand those who make a display of themselves over an event that doesn't make a change in their lives. Whether it's the death of bin Laden or a win by your favorite sports team (especially when people riot). And I really don't understand you British sports nuts. At least the death of bin Laden was somewhat more substantial than a soccer/rugby/cricket match. While we're on the topic, what about British girls? The girls I saw out on a Saturday night in Bath was a little alarming. Of course, there are notably attractive women (Karen Gillan comes to mind). Maybe I was just unlucky.

Football in the UK is very much a working class/tribal sport. Most working class men have pretty stressful,drudge filled lives during the working week and going to see your local team come Saturday is a good way to let off a bit of steam. Love for the game, love for your team. Your going to get your idiots who go over the top with violence but that's just society I'm afraid. What was it about the girls you saw that alarmed you btw? We're they drunk? 

Warbler said:

Hey, it's me. said:

Apologies but i was still a bit miffed after Warblers soapbox outburst lol

keep in mind that outburst happened because I was miffed that someone from UK called America an empire and compared us to the Soviet Union. 

If I said anything about the UK that was not true, please correct me.  

No you haven't to my reckoning. But I find the notion of America being the 'best' nation in the world pretty laughable to be honest Warbler. Misplaced patriotism just makes me laugh. It was like when the news of Bin Ladens death came on the news and it showed scenes of celebration in Times Square. People breaking out into the obligatory chants of USA! USA!. It made my think if they were to turn the cameras on there at any time that's what would be happening (chuckle) So Bin Ladens dead. Well that's the trouble over with then. Sorted.

CP3S said:

Hey, it's me. said:

Meaning that if you were to experience the Muslim and immigration problem in London with your own eyes and live within it for years you wouldn't be so trigger happy to label someone as a racist for questioning it. 

Can you explain to us the problem, then we might better understand.

What have your own eyes seen that is so troubling? So far, the most grievous offenses you've complained about involve street signs in Arabic and people not learning English. There must be more to it than that.

What are some ways the Muslim Problem has inconvenienced your life?

http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/uk-huge-welfare-benefits-facilitate-jihadis-polygomy-immigration

I don't work and pay my taxes so slags like this can take the piss out of my country and make me feel uncomfortable in my home town. About a mile up the road from me there is a huge mosque. And the town is awash with Muslims when they congregate there. I've had friends who (while minding there own business) have been spat at, cursed at in Arabic, I myself have been threatened by groups of Muslim men and told to steer clear of the area. Report it to the police and the do fuck all. 

TheBoost said:

Hey, it's me. said:

We don't want them to be more like us. We want them to understand and respect our culture and way of life if they choose to live here. Not throw their way of life from a Stone Age shithole of a country in our faces and say 'this is us, deal with it or fuck off.' That's UTTERLY disrespectful to the common people of the country that has provided you with free healthcare, housing, and free education for your children. It really is THAT simple.

Cairo

Casablanca

Tehran

 

And you are aware there are immigrants that have jobs and pay taxes right?

Yeah unfortunately the majority of Muslim immigrants in the UK arrive from Pakistan, Bangladesh, Somalia etc and these are not nice places. 

Apologies but i was still a bit miffed after Warblers soapbox outburst lol