Harmy

Yeah, that's my biggest concern as well.

Here's a rough cut of part 1 of the Introducing the Despecialized Edition documentary, that I'm working on:

http://uloz.to/xtRatFDp/introducing-the-deed01-wp-mp4

The video side of things isn't quite complete (mainly the part where sound is discussed) and the sound mixing is very rough and will require proper mastering, denoising and some additional music but the timing should remain the same in the final version, so I'd very much appreciate, if someone would create English subtitles in SRT format, so that other can start working on the translations, as I'd like the final release to have subs in as many languages as possible.

You may be surprised by the frame in which the video is put but this is what I plan the whole bonus BD menu to look like, plus it makes sure, that everything stays within the safe margins.

You'll also notice, that this uses some text and footage from the Sources documentary but that is only because the final version of the sources doc (which will be part4 of the final doc) will also be re-edited.

You'll also find, that I took a lot of the yahoo responses above directly from what I'm saying in this doc ;-)

Oh, and I think this is obvious, but I'll say it nonetheless: No re-uploads of this anywhere, please - it's just a rough cut, which I'd like to stay on this forum for now.

Not really - you have that mixed up with matte boxes - those shouldn't be visible under ideal conditions but the matte-lines were always there (not in all shots - depending on how successful the compositing was).

Look how completely different this digitally recomposited shot looks for example:

And yes, the new composite does look better/more realistic, but so do the new digital matte-paintings and some people might argue, that CGI Dewbacks look better than immobile rubber figurines, so where does one draw the line? The above shot shows quite clearly, that re-compositing a shot digitally is definitely altering the original shot in a major way.

I wouldn't loose any sleep over the original crawl not being there either (although I'd prefer it being included via seamless branching, which, as Fang Zei said, seem most likely).

The matte-lines being removed on the other hand would be an absolute travesty - the optical compositing was an inherent and very important part of the effects.

Harmy said:

This is a great article, which TServo2049 just posted in another thread. It's about the advances in optical compositing made by ILM for the SW Trilogy - it is perfect to illustrate the point I was always trying to make about how digital recompositing destroys the artistic integrity of the FX shots, even if it uses the same elements, because the method and quality of the optical compositing was a huge part of the original effects.

Well, it's not really that far fetched, seeing how collarful some people's grasp of their own language can be ;-)

Huh? In Czech it definitely isn't - it's "Já jsem tvuj otec" with a little circle above the U in tvuj :-)

Well, it is a bit scary but there have been articles in fairly high-profile media before and the DeEd is always mentioned a hundred times over in the comments of all articles about the OOT, so when they contacted me with some questions, I figured they'll be writing the article either way, so it would be better if I had at least some sort of say in it. They edited my quotes down quite a bit, which was to be expected of course but in the process, they often sort of changed the emphasis of what I was saying. For example in the quote about my worries about the Disney release, they edited out DVNR, which I put first, because that's my biggest concern. They also completely ignored, what I consider the most important part of my response about copyright.

Here's the full text of my responses:

1) How did you originally get the idea to create the Despecialized Editions?

I study English and American Cultural Studies and the cultural impact of the original Star Wars was actually the topic of my undergraduate thesis. And I’m convinced that the Special Edition greatly diminishes the immense historical value of these films, so I do believe that people should to be able to view the original Oscar-winning versions of these films and that they should be presented in a quality that will do them justice. And that’s why I wanted to make the Despecialized Editions.

Another big part of why I wanted to make an edit like that was being able to introduce new people to SW without having to decide whether to show them what I personally consider a butchered version but in high definition, or an original version but from an mpeg2 encoded 1993 Laserdisc master with motion smearing, washed out colors and all the other problems  of the 2006 “GOUT” DVDs. And, also at the time I started working on the Despecialized Edition, my little brother was like 3 and I wanted to show him the original versions when he was old enough and I can happily tell you, that my little brother got introduced to the adventures of Luke Skywalker at the age of five, using the Despecialized Edition version 2.1 and he loved it.

2) It's been a work in progress for some time--do you ever anticipate completing it?

I'd like to finish versions 2.5 of all three movies and then I'm hoping my efforts will become unnecessary, if/when the originals are actually released on BD (though if they aren't I'm confident that with the current state of fan-preservation efforts, a full, completely professional-looking restoration of the OOT is possible and could be done in perhaps a year or two).

3) Do you personally think that George Lucas will ever make the original unaltered trilogy available on DVD or Blu-ray?

Well, luckily for us fans, Mr Lucas can't release crap anymore but I do believe, that Disney is quite likely to release the originals eventually. The question is, whether it will be a worthy release - I'm worried though, that we may get a DVNRed release, with wrong colors and without the original sound mixes (all you need to do is look at other Disney catalog releases) or some sort of semi-despecialized edition with lots of the subtler changes left in. I'm hoping, that that won't be the case though and they will want to appease the fans by doing a proper release.

And yes, I do think it will be Disney, not Fox, who will be dictating the hows and whens of any new releases, just like it was Lucas, not Fox, who dictated them in 2004, 2006 and 2011. Fox only has distribution rights, which, the way I understand it, means that when the copyright owner decides to release the movies, they have to let Fox handle distribution.

4) Have you had to deal with any legal issues yet concerning this project?

Luckily, no. I, nor anyone else, are making any money on any of this and all of my projects have this disclaimer, which I put everywhere I make them available:

This is a fan preservation made for cultural, historical and educational purposes.                                     
Fanedits and preservations must not be bought or sold.                                                                  
Please report every fanedit or preservation you find for sale to webmasters of originaltrilogy.com.                     
Fanedits and preservations are an art-form and to be shared among legal owners of the officially available releases only.
Do not support piracy.

It is a sort of grey area but I do believe, that the vast majority of people, who download my projects are life-long fans, who do own all the official editions anyway. Plus my edits probably make up like 1% of all the illegal downloads of Star Wars, so I think these fan preservations (there are many others besides mine) don't present any financial threat to the copyright holders whatsoever.

5) What can fans who perhaps weren't aware of this project before do to help?

They can come to the originaltrilogy.com forum an give their support and share their experiences. The support and enthusiasm of the people at originaltrilogy.com has helped me a lot, whenever the work got a bit frustrating.  

Also:

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/star-wars-eps-iv-vi-will-fans-ever-see-the-original-95123066972.html

From the comments:

Nick66 said:

something about the Disney rumor and then he chickened out and edited it... ;-)

Oh, for fuck's sake, now you're really starting to piss me off!

jimjimmyjones85 said:

Harmy said:

I'm sorry guys, but does the title of this thread read "Will the OOT be released on BD"?

This latest rumor is currently being discussed here:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/4K-restoration-on-Star-Wars-Official/post/722162/#TopicPost722162

 I'm not so sure. Fox still retained the rights to Star Wars.

Disney will have to throw some more money around to get anything moving.

Time will tell.

Even still with all the DNR messes they have given recently with older titles, I am not sure they will give it the love it needs to make it what it should be.

Plus, Lucas is still alive...not sure it's happening.

 
Seriously?

I'm sorry guys, but does the title of this thread read "Will the OOT be released on BD"?

This latest rumor is currently being discussed here:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/4K-restoration-on-Star-Wars-Official/post/722162/#TopicPost722162

It actually kind of does.

Oh, and by the way, while Vader never says "I'm your daddy" in the Czech dubbing of SW, C-3P0 does say "Nejsem Spielberg" (I'm not Spieldberg) in the first CZ dub of SW.

Czech wikipedia has an article about Czech SW dubbing?

EDIT: Found it (I had no idea there even was a Czech wikipedia but I guess it makes sense that there would be). The dubbing I'm using for the DeEds is the original Guild Home Video dubbing. BTW it's pretty f*cking ridiculous that in the new Blu-Ray dubbing they used the actor who dubbed Luke in both the '92 and '97 dubs for Han Solo - I caught a bit of ESB on TV with the BD dubbing and it was horrible that whenever Han opened his mouth Luke's voice came out.

And Vader definitely never says "Jsem tvuj tatinek" (which would be the equivalent of "I'm your daddy") in any of the Czech dubs :-D

Harmy said:

I don't need a long list - I need some shot I could play while the narration says this:

The original Oscar-winning soundmix was redone as well.

[Play a before/after sound clip]

Nar: And in this new mix some of the original Oscar-winning sound effects were replaced.

[Play the krayt dragon yell from the original and the BD]

Nar: And even John Williams’ award winning score suffered, by being drowned by sound effects in some places.

 Please? Pretty please...

Plus in Star Wars, wipes aren't usually used to show passage of time but they are almost always used when going from one location to another.

Well, if there's truth to that rumor, it would seem they are approaching the restoration with care and using the o-neg for it.

I don't need a long list - I need some shot I could play while the narration says this:

The original Oscar-winning soundmix was redone as well.

[Play a before/after sound clip]

Nar: And in this new mix some of the original Oscar-winning sound effects were replaced.

[Play the krayt dragon yell from the original and the BD]

Nar: And even John Williams’ award winning score suffered, by being drowned by sound effects in some places.

hairy_hen said:

So I checked the audio again, and I think I can safely promise there are no errors, at least none that are of my doing.  The source tracks do slightly distort occasionally, but that's part of the recordings themselves—some of these same problems can also be heard in the SE.  I'm simply not hearing any other problems, so I have to assume they are either nonexistent or are related to playback equipment and/or room acoustics, and not the audio itself.

I should also point out—and please treat this information seriously—that the 5.1 mix was designed for high performance sound systems and may not give ideal results on equipment that cannot cope with wide dynamic range material and high levels of bass.  It will also not sound its best if downmixed to stereo.  Obviously I have no control over how people listen to it, so it was necessary to do a bit of tweaking to the surround channels in order to make stereo playback at least sound acceptable (it would have been quite horrible if I hadn't done this, due to excessive comb filtering from out of phase signals).  But since the 35mm stereo mix is itself very good, I must recommend that anyone watching the movie with a 2-channel sound system choose that version instead, rather than downmixing the 5.1 mix.  Content-wise they are identical, and the greater midrange emphasis of its EQ makes it more suitable for the kinds of sound systems people are likely to have.

 Thanks, hairy_hen. I've recently acquired a 5.1 system and bought a new soundcard to go with it (both second hand from a friend who's quite the audiophile - he was just updating his system) and from what I can tell (we all know how much of a layman I am when it comes to audio) the 5.1 mix sounds wonderful. :-) I'm gonna have to re-watch Star Wars with the 5.1 mix one of these days.

Guys, can you help me find a few shots, the sound of which would most clearly show sound effects being different in the BD mix over the original mixes (other than the Krayt dragon scream) and then also clips showing music being drowned by sound effects? Thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxxOi9fUNs8

Yeah, yeah, I already got it from there, thanks! But the quality is pretty bad.

Well, the quality is really shitty there but I guess if I can't get a better copy, it would be better than nothing.

So, I just realized, that on the HDD, which died on me yesterday, there was a copy of the "These Amazing Shadows" documentary, some footage from which I was going to use for my DeEd docs :-( Any chance anyone's got it on BD (or at least DVD) and could help me out?

So, I just realized, that on the HDD, which died on me yesterday, there was a copy of the "These Amazing Shadows" documentary, some footage from which I was going to use for my DeEd docs :-( Any chance anyone's got it on BD (or at least DVD) and could help me out?