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Gregatron

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27-May-2004
Last activity
26-Sep-2019
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Post
#246394
Topic
What's Original '77 and What's Not?
Time
Originally posted by: Mielr
Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen



4) Lastly, the long-debated matter of the opening crawl. So much pre-release talk about it. Well, the DVD's been out for a week! Anyone care to venture a final answer? Original or a well-intentioned copy?
The crawl is faithful to the 1977 version- but I guess the debate as to whether or not it's the real film crawl or a digitally re-created one will go on.



The star pattern in the background, the speed of the crawl, etc. all match the Empire of Dreams version, so I think it's restored from an original print or set of elements.
Post
#246391
Topic
What's Original '77 and What's Not?
Time
I did some more investigation into the sound mixes. Here's what I came up with.


The Star Wars (theatrical version) "bonus disc" features the 1993 Definitive Collection sound mix as the basis for the English audio track. The only difference between the DVD and the DC laserdisc is the original opening crawl being slapped onto the beginning of the movie (which also allows the musical "crash" to be properly in sync with the reveal of Tatooine, as it was originally, before the "ANH" subtitle was added in 1981).

The disc's optional Spanish and French language tracks (which were probably dug out of the Lucasfilm Archives for this Limited Edition release), however, are based on the rarely-heard MONO sound mix from 1977!!!!

How do I know?


*Threepio says the famous tractor beam lines (in French/Spanish), lines that do not appear in the Defintive Collection mix.

*Luke (albeit speaking in French/Spanish) says, "Blast it, Wedge, where are you?" (as he does in the mono mix), as opposed to, "Blast it, Biggs, where are you?" as he does in all other versions of the movie.

* The Falcon's chessboard creatures make some different sounds than all other versions of the movie.

* The additional Falcon cockpit sounds (and the whizzing asteroid sounds heard as the ship comes out of hyperspace) that were originally exclusive to the mono mix (and were added back in for the 1997 SE) can be heard on the Spanish and French tracks.


On the 2004 SE DVD, the Spanish audio track is completely new, and uses the 2004 SE mix as its basis.

However, the French audio track is the same one that appears on the "bonus disc" (This version is still based on the original mono mix, with the same French-speaking voice actors as can be heard on the "bonus disc". In this version, French-speaking Luke still says, "Blast it, Wedge, where are you?", while on the new Spanish track, he says, "Blast it, Biggs, where are you?", as in the 2004 SE.), but with the SE material spliced in at the appropriate spots!!!! It seems they even used different voice actors for the added scenes and dialogue (such as Han's voice in the restored Jabba scene)!

But, aside from the SE additions, the original sounds for the Vader/Kenobi duel can still be heard on the French track, as well as the alternate Falcon chessboard creature sounds from the mono mix!


For Empire, the English audio track on the bonus disc is the same as the Definitive Collection sound mix. However, the French and Spanish audio tracks feature a different sound mix than the 1993 Definitive Collection, a mix which appears to be based on the original 70 mm sound mix from the film's initial theatrical release!

This alternate mix features some additional sounds that were not heard on the 35mm and subsequent home video versions, but which were later reincorporated into the 1997 and 2004 mixes. Such sounds include additional R2-D2 beeps when Yoda rummages through Luke's supplies, and additional TIE fighter engine sounds in the establishing shot of Darth Vader's Star Destroyer (after Luke beheads the illusory Vader on Dagobah).


On the 2004 Empire DVD, the Spanish audio track is completely new (as with ANh and ROTJ), and uses the 2004 SE mix as its basis.

However, the French audio track is the same one that appears on the "bonus disc" (based on the original 70 mm mix, with the same French-speaking voice actors), but with the SE material spliced in at the appropriate spots. For example, Luke does not say, "Thanks, Threepio." in the Hoth medical center in the French version (but he does in the new Spanish track).


Finally, for the Jedi 2004 SE, the Spanish audio track is completely new (As with ANH and ESB), and uses the 2004 SE mix as its basis. However, the French audio track is the same as the one on the "bonus disc", albeit with new SE material spliced in.
Post
#246376
Topic
MP3 of mono mix?
Time
Originally posted by: Darth Mallwalker
Originally posted by: Gregatron
The disc's optional Spanish and French language tracks (which were probably dug out of the Lucasfilm Archives for this Limited Edition release), however, are based on the rarely-heard MONO sound mix from 1977!!!!
Gregatron, is that the Region 1 DVD you're talking about ?
If so, that'll be much easier for Belbucus to use as an EQ reference rather than trying to obtain a copy of the German laserdisc track which he asked about in this thread.



Yes, I'm referring to the Region 1 "bonus discs". Star Wars uses the mono mix for the Spanish and French audio tracks (albeit in 2.0 surround).
Post
#245512
Topic
MP3 of mono mix?
Time
I did some more investigation into the sound mixes on the recently-released Limited Edition DVDs (2004 and GOUT). Here's what I came up with.


The Star Wars (theatrical version) "bonus disc" features the 1993 Definitive Collection sound mix as the basis for the English audio track. The only difference between the DVD and the DC laserdisc is the original opening crawl being slapped onto the beginning of the movie (which also allows the musical "crash" to be properly in sync with the reveal of Tatooine, as it was originally, before the "ANH" subtitle was added in 1981).

The disc's optional Spanish and French language tracks (which were probably dug out of the Lucasfilm Archives for this Limited Edition release), however, are based on the rarely-heard MONO sound mix from 1977!!!!

How do I know?


*Threepio says the famous tractor beam lines (in French/Spanish), lines that do not appear in the Defintive Collection mix.

*Luke (albeit speaking in French/Spanish) says, "Blast it, Wedge, where are you?" (as he does in the mono mix), as opposed to, "Blast it, Biggs, where are you?" as he does in all other versions of the movie.

* The Falcon's chessboard creatures make some different sounds than all other versions of the movie.

* The additional Falcon cockpit sounds (and the whizzing asteroid sounds heard as the ship comes out of hyperspace) that were originally exclusive to the mono mix (and were added back in for the 1997 SE) can be heard on the Spanish and French tracks.


On the 2004 SE DVD, the Spanish audio track is completely new, and uses the 2004 SE mix as its basis.

However, the French audio track is the same one that appears on the "bonus disc" (This version is still based on the original mono mix, with the same French-speaking voice actors as can be heard on the "bonus disc". In this version, French-speaking Luke still says, "Blast it, Wedge, where are you?", while on the new Spanish track, he says, "Blast it, Biggs, where are you?", as in the 2004 SE.), but with the SE material spliced in at the appropriate spots!!!! It seems they even used different voice actors for the added scenes and dialogue (such as Han's voice in the restored Jabba scene)!

But, aside from the SE additions, the original sounds for the Vader/Kenobi duel can still be heard on the French track, as well as the alternate Falcon chessboard creature sounds from the mono mix!


For Empire, the English audio track on the bonus disc is the same as the Definitive Collection sound mix. However, the French and Spanish audio tracks feature a different sound mix than the 1993 Definitive Collection, a mix which appears to be based on the original 70 mm sound mix from the film's initial theatrical release!

This alternate mix features some additional sounds that were not heard on the 35mm and subsequent home video versions, but which were later reincorporated into the 1997 and 2004 mixes. Such sounds include additional R2-D2 beeps when Yoda rummages through Luke's supplies, and additional TIE fighter engine sounds in the establishing shot of Darth Vader's Star Destroyer (after Luke Skywalker beheads the illusory Vader on Dagobah).


On the 2004 Empire DVD, the Spanish audio track is completely new (as with ANh and ROTJ), and uses the 2004 SE mix as its basis.

However, the French audio track is the same one that appears on the "bonus disc" (based on the original 70 mm mix, with the same French-speaking voice actors), but with the SE material spliced in at the appropriate spots. For example, Luke does not say, "Thanks, Threepio." in the Hoth medical center in the French version (but he does in the new Spanish track).


Finally, for the Jedi 2004 SE, the Spanish audio track is completely new (As with ANH and ESB), and uses the 2004 SE mix as its basis. However, the French audio track is the same as the one on the "bonus disc", albeit with new SE material spliced in.
Post
#245507
Topic
First Impressions of the OOT ...
Time
I did some more investigation into the sound mixes. Here's what I came up with.


The Star Wars (theatrical version) "bonus disc" features the 1993 Definitive Collection sound mix as the basis for the English audio track. The only difference between the DVD and the DC laserdisc is the original opening crawl being slapped onto the beginning of the movie (which also allows the musical "crash" to be properly in sync with the reveal of Tatooine, as it was originally, before the "ANH" subtitle was added in 1981).

The disc's optional Spanish and French language tracks (which were probably dug out of the Lucasfilm Archives for this Limited Edition release), however, are based on the rarely-heard MONO sound mix from 1977!!!!

How do I know?


*Threepio says the famous tractor beam lines (in French/Spanish), lines that do not appear in the Defintive Collection mix.

*Luke (albeit speaking in French/Spanish) says, "Blast it, Wedge, where are you?" (as he does in the mono mix), as opposed to, "Blast it, Biggs, where are you?" as he does in all other versions of the movie.

* The Falcon's chessboard creatures make some different sounds than all other versions of the movie.

* The additional Falcon cockpit sounds (and the whizzing asteroid sounds heard as the ship comes out of hyperspace) that were originally exclusive to the mono mix (and were added back in for the 1997 SE) can be heard on the Spanish and French tracks.


On the 2004 SE DVD, the Spanish audio track is completely new, and uses the 2004 SE mix as its basis.

However, the French audio track is the same one that appears on the "bonus disc" (This version is still based on the original mono mix, with the same French-speaking voice actors as can be heard on the "bonus disc". In this version, French-speaking Luke still says, "Blast it, Wedge, where are you?", while on the new Spanish track, he says, "Blast it, Biggs, where are you?", as in the 2004 SE.), but with the SE material spliced in at the appropriate spots!!!! It seems they even used different voice actors for the added scenes and dialogue (such as Han's voice in the restored Jabba scene)!

But, aside from the SE additions, the original sounds for the Vader/Kenobi duel can still be heard on the French track, as well as the alternate Falcon chessboard creature sounds from the mono mix!


For Empire, the English audio track on the bonus disc is the same as the Definitive Collection sound mix. However, the French and Spanish audio tracks feature a different sound mix than the 1993 Definitive Collection, a mix which appears to be based on the original 70 mm sound mix from the film's initial theatrical release!

This alternate mix features some additional sounds that were not heard on the 35mm and subsequent home video versions, but which were later reincorporated into the 1997 and 2004 mixes. Such sounds include additional R2-D2 beeps when Yoda rummages through Luke's supplies, and additional TIE fighter engine sounds in the establishing shot of Darth Vader's Star Destroyer (after Luke beheads the illusory Vader on Dagobah).


On the 2004 Empire DVD, the Spanish audio track is completely new (as with ANh and ROTJ), and uses the 2004 SE mix as its basis.

However, the French audio track is the same one that appears on the "bonus disc" (based on the original 70 mm mix, with the same French-speaking voice actors), but with the SE material spliced in at the appropriate spots. For example, Luke does not say, "Thanks, Threepio." in the Hoth medical center in the French version (but he does in the new Spanish track).


Finally, for the Jedi 2004 SE, the Spanish audio track is completely new (As with ANH and ESB), and uses the 2004 SE mix as its basis. However, the French audio track is the same as the one on the "bonus disc", albeit with new SE material spliced in.
Post
#244932
Topic
Ideas for the inevitable Super-Mega-Special-Ultimate 2007 Boxset
Time
If they want to do something special for the 30th anniversary, they should do something like this:



BOXSET # 1:


STAR WARS: The Archival Edition Boxset (on DVD, HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, or all three!).


DISC 1:

STAR WARS (1977):

*Anamorphic widescreen transfer from original theatrical print, with original burned-in subtitles.

*Audio options for original theatrical 70mm, 35 mm, mono, as well as 1985, 1993 home video/laserdisc sound mixes.

* Seamless branching for post-1981 "A New Hope" subtitle, and any added/deleted/alternate scenes in earliest theatrical release (like the rumored "missing Chewie scaring mouse droid scene" from the "opening day" version).


(Or, the theartical and "home video" versions, with their different mixes and opening crawls, can be on two separate discs).


DISC 2:

THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK (1980):

* Anamorphic widescreen transfer from original theatrical print.

*Audio options for original theatrical 70mm, 35 mm, as well as 1985, 1993 home video/laserdisc sound mixes.

* * Seamless branching for added/deleted/alternate scenes in original 70 mm release.


DISC 3:

RETURN OF THE JEDI (1983):

* Anamorphic widescreen transfer from original theatrical print.

*Audio options for original theatrical 70mm, 35 mm, as well as 1985, 1993 home video/laserdisc sound mixes.



DISC 4:

STAR WARS: A NEW HOPE- SPECIAL EDITION (1997):

* Anamorphic widescreen transfer from Special Edition print.

* Audio options for DTS 70 mm, DTS, Dolby Digital, SDDS, etc.



DISC 5:


THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK- SPECIAL EDITION (1997):

* Anamorphic widescreen transfer from Special Edition print.

* Audio options for DTS 70 mm, DTS, Dolby Digital, SDDS, etc.



DISC 6:

RETURN OF THE JEDI- SPECIAL EDITION (1997):

* Anamorphic widescreen transfer from Special Edition print.

* Audio options for DTS 70 mm, DTS, Dolby Digital, SDDS, etc.


DISC 7:

STAR WARS- EPISODE I: THE PHANTOM MENACE (1999):

* Anamorphic widescreen transfer from original theatrical print.

* Seamless branching for extended 2001 DVD cut.

* 2001 DVD audio/text commentary tracks.


DISC 8:

STAR WARS- EPISODE II: ATTACK OF THE CLONES (2002):

* Anamorphic widescreen transfer from digital source material.

* Seamless branching for theatrical/digital theatrical/2002 DVD cuts.

* 2002 DVD audio/text commentary tracks.


DISC 9:

STAR WARS EPISODE III: REVENGE OF THE SITH (2005):


* Anamorphic widescreen transfer from digital source material.

* Original theatrical version (with that wipe/scene transition that was deleted for the 2005 DVD)

* 2005 DVD text/audio commentary tracks.


DISCS 10-12:

STAR WARS TRILOGY (2004) DVD CUTS, with 2004 DVD audio commentary tracks.



DISCS 13-??????

Archival bonus material:

* Original trailers/tv spots/documentaries for all six films (and Special Editions), as well as newly produced and in-depth extras. Hours and hours of extras/photo galleries, etc!



BOXSET # 2:



STAR WARS: THE COMPLETE SAGA (on DVD, HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, or all three!):


All six films in numerical order, presented as one long story on six discs (with no extras), and all the "final" tinkering that's going to be done to "finish" the movies once and for all.

Post
#244703
Topic
First Impressions of the OOT ...
Time
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
On the official site, a fan was asking about a burn mark on the exhaust port of the first Death Star.

He's suggesting that they added the burn mark from red leader's missed shot to the side of the port when they show Luke's hitting the mark in either the 97 or 2004 SE.

And he says that the burn mark is there on this latest release of the O-OT.

Can anyone here confirm wether or not that burn mark was there originally, or when it was introduced if it wasn't?



It was always there.

Post
#244672
Topic
First Impressions of the OOT ...
Time
Well, I watched the "new" Star Wars DVD in its entirety yesterday.

There's an abrubt pause after Tarkin says, "Terminate her--immediately!". I believe that this was the disc-flipping/switching transition point for the laserdisc. For the DVD, the transtion (for what I presume is a DVD layer-switch now) has been pulled off rather clumsily.

Interestingly, the Spanish and French audio tracks on the DVD appear to be based on the theatrical mono sound mix for the film (dubbed foreign-language dialogue aside). Certain sound effects are missing (such as all of the "exploding glass" sounds when Luke and Han blast the various cameras and such in the Death Star's detention center), and certain sounds have been added (such as metallic clicks when Artoo and Chewie press buttons on the holographic chessboard). Hmm.

Checking out a few scenes from Empire, the Spanish and French audio tracks also appears to be based on a different mix (possibly 70 mm) than the Definitive Collection/theatrical DVD version. There's a high-pitched engine whining sound as the last snowspeeder crashes (right before Veers blows up the Rebel power generators), and the TIE engine sounds in the establishing shot of Vader's ship (after Luke beheads the illusory Vader on Dagobah) are different.
Post
#206404
Topic
ORIGINAL STAR WARS TRILOGY OUT 09/2006 BY LUCASFILM
Time
Not an "official" page, but an official quote:

http://www.homemediaretailing.com/index.cfm?sec_id=2&newsid=9067


“See the title crawl to Star Wars before it was known as Episode IV — A New Hope; see the pioneering, if dated, motion-control model work on the attack on the Death Star; groove to 'Lapti Nek' or the Ewok celebration song like you did when you were a kid; and, yes, see Han Solo shoot first,” according to Lucasfilm.


Post
#206399
Topic
ORIGINAL STAR WARS TRILOGY OUT 09/2006 BY LUCASFILM
Time
Drat that last post! Hit enter, before typing anything!


Anyway, even if this is just a reuse of the 1993 transfers, at least there won't be dot-crawl and other artifacts like in many fan-versions!

And the colors/contrast will be what we remember, as opposed to the pumped-up versions on the 2004 DVDs.


And with the other comments, it seems likely that these won't just be straight transfers-to-DVD of the laserdiscs. The pre-ANH crawl is confirmed, that much is certain.

And thus, it's likely that the sound mixes won't be the ones from various laserdisc versions, either. If they're going true to their statement, they'll probably use the original-ORIGINAL mixes (although, multiple audio tracks with different mizes would be icing on the cake).
Post
#181916
Topic
Evidence of OOT at Lucasfilm?
Time
Sorry about that last post. Accidentally hit "enter" before typing.



Anyway, the way I understand it is that the makers of Empire of Dreams wanted to be historically accurate, so they dug out old, pre-SE footage (with Lucas' approval).

THE VAST MAJORITY of the clips from the films in Empire of Dreams are actually from the pre-2004 DVD Special Editons, but certain specific shots that had noticable changes for the later versions (the ANH-less opening crawl, Alderaan getting blown up, the rebel fighters flying away from the Death Star before it blows up, some Cloud City shots, etc.) are taken from the the Pre-SE/OOT archives (and the quality is noticably lower).
Post
#155763
Topic
.: The XØ Project - Laserdisc on Steroids :. (SEE FIRST POST FOR UPDATES)
Time
Sorry about that last post. I hit enter before writing anything!


Anyway, for a relative newbie's sake, could someone explain some details of the XO project?

Specifically, is the plan just to transfer an existing version really, really well and leave it at that?

Personally, I think the best option would be strive for ultimate historical accuracy by including options for the different theatrical sound mixes, as well as an option to view the first film with the original opening crawl (or the best possible recreation) or the ANH version.

Thoughts?
Post
#102099
Topic
Preparing for SW marathon, wondering about O-OT
Time
In honor of the series winding down with Episode III, I plan to go through *everything* I've got regarding the movies in the weeks ahead, in chronological order. I plan to start with the O-OT (including soundtracks, books, the making of and Holiday Specials, etc.), then move on to the SEs, then the prequels and the 2004 OT DVDs.

Still, regarding the O-OT, all I have are my beloved 1990 CBS-FOX pan/scan videos and some asian DVD transfers of the Def. Collection (with some sound-sync problems and such).

I'd very much like to upgrade to the best version of the O-OT possible (Although I hope and pray LFL gets their act together and releases the *original* versions of each film--with alternate sound mixes, etc., for historical accuracy, which is what this preservation effort is all about, right?). I also worry about player compatibility, as I have a 2001-era Sony DVD player, and I wouldn't want to acquire some solid O-OT DVDs only to be unable to play them. (I'd also like to get the making of specials and Holiday Special on DVD, too--upgraded from my VHS tapes).

Any suggestions on what the best way to go would be? What set(s) are the best, and how would they be acquired?
Post
#97111
Topic
The Definitive Stereo Mix
Time
Hmm.

I'm not an expert with all the technical issues of transfers and such (my areas of interest/expertise would be the actual films and the differences between versions), but you make a valid point.

There's just a fine line between *preservation* of the original work and saying "well, maybe I can tinker with this just a little bit".

But in terms of transfer issues, I think there should be more leeway in that regard.
Post
#97005
Topic
The Definitive Stereo Mix
Time
I've never seen those lines anywhere.

And if the point of this is to preserve the original mixes, and those lines never appeared in the original mixes, then they shouldn't be included.

And not to stir up trouble, but I don't quite understant why some want to slightly tweak the films themselves (fixing the saber effects, etc.). I think the films should be presented in their 100% original configurations, with old logos, old effects, old mixes. Just my two cents.
Post
#97002
Topic
The Definitive Stereo Mix
Time
Greetings! I'm a relatively newbie poster, though I've been lurking around for a long time. Although with the recent developments that indicate that the OOT will not be released anytime soon (though I hold out hope for a 2007 30th anniversary megaset), I've been hanging out here more often.

Now, the most popular OT DVD versions out there tend to come from the Def. Collection or Faces LDs.

I've not actually heard the mixes for the Faces versions, and I don't particularly like the Def. Collection versions (with the newly-added sound effects, the lack of 3PO's lines, the missing snowspeeder whine before it crashes, etc.).

The mixes that are near and dear to my heart are the 1985 mixes, featured in my beloved CBS-FOX VHS tapes from 1990 (the first time I ever owned the trilogy).

I'd love it if someone used the sound from the 1992 laserdiscs (which used the 1985 mixes, and are likely the best presentations of the films in that regard).

Still, I'm a stickler for historical accuracy (as are many here), and audio tracks featuring the original mixes (70mm, mono, stereo) would be pretty spiffy, as would the original opening crawl (and other changes rumored to be in the original releases, such as no Chewie scaring mouse droid, alternate "rebel fleet ending" cut for Empire, etc.).