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Gregatron

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27-May-2004
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3-Feb-2020
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Post
#584446
Topic
To prove a point. Please give me as many reasons and character comparisons as to why Star Wars is better than Star Trek.
Time

There's an interesting parallel between Lucas and Roddenberry.

Both were "typecast" as "Mr. STAR WARS" and "Mr. STAR TREK".

Both receive most of the credit for being the genius visionaries behind their respective franchises.

Both were/are lousy writers. Of the few TREK episodes Roddenberry actually wrote, only the original pilot was an out-of-the-ballpark-good script. His other scripts ranged from so-so ("Mudd's Women") to utterly lousy ("The Omega Glory", "Turnabout Intruder").

 

 

The original SW trilogy was very collaborative, with the first film, in particular, being saved in post-production by editing and window-dressing (music, FX, etc.). EMPIRE's creative success was largely due to Kernsher and Kasdan.

And Roddenberry, being a notorious credit-stealer, was more of a guiding influence than anything else. Gene Coon was perhaps the person most responsible for the feel of TOS as we know it, having served as producer after the first dozen or so episodes, penning many great episodes, and rewriting others.

 

Both Roddenberry and Lucas later came back to their respective franchises, with mixed results.

Lucas made the prequels, without a system of checks and balances.

Roddenberry came to believe the hype being repeated to him over and over again by fandom, with the result that STAR TREK-THE MOTION PICTURE depicted a boring, bland, "perfect" future--which was not at all what TOS was about.

The critical failure of that film led to his removal as creative controller, and it took two outsiders (Harve Bennett and Nick Meyer) to get back to the heart of TOS with THE WRATH OF KHAN.

And then Roddenberry went off and created TNG, which, at first, was in the vein of ST-TMP: bland, with no conflicts between the main characters. That first season is just horrible.

 

Both Lucas and Roddenberry, after being hailed as visionaries, decided that their franchises needed to be IMPORTANT, to the detriment of said franchises.

STAR WARS went from the ultimate popcorn movie to a "deep", mythic, multipart "Saga", which resulted in the 6-film patchwork quilt we know today. The original film is the only one that doesn't fit within that framework.

STAR TREK went from a fun action-adventure-drama series to a talky, bland, preachy series about how perfect man will be in the future. The original series is the only one that doesn't fit within the framework of the spin-offs. And ENTERPRISE went out of its way to erase TOS and steal many of that show's "firsts" (by showing an Enterprise before Kirk's, having first contact with many races that were originally first contacted in TOS, etc.).

 

Far and away, for me, TOS (third season aside) and the original SW film are the best incarnations of those franchises. Almost everything that has come after has served to undermine and/or erase/supplant those original, iconic versions.

 

Talk about biting the hand that feeds!

Post
#584367
Topic
To prove a point. Please give me as many reasons and character comparisons as to why Star Wars is better than Star Trek.
Time

Anyhoo, it's apples and oranges.

 

I will say that I think TREK (and by TREK, I mean TOS, which, for me, is the "real" TREK) is much better-constructed in terms of the overall concept.

With TREK, you can tell any sort of story imaginable, and can go anywhere. WARS worked best with the story of the Rebels vs. the Empire, and the core group of OT characters. Sure, it's a big galaxy in SW, with lots of room for creativity, but the Enterprise and her crew served as an anchoring point for exploring the human condition. There's much more story potential and room for creativity, there. There's also no problem in terms of getting bogged down by continuity (in TOS, at least).

 

TREK is a Rolls Royce. WARS is a racecar.

TREK is sci-fi. WARS is sci-fantasy.

TREK is character and plot-driven. WARS is action and pace-driven.

TREK is theatrical-style space opera. WARS is (or was, at least) whiz-bang fun.

TREK has well-defined and relatable characters (in terms of the main trio of Kirk-Spock-McCoy, at least). WARS has character archetypes made fresh by the actors' charm.

 

Love 'em both dearly, but they really are different beasts.

 

And all Abrams did was turn TREK into WARS. I was quite appalled by the "reboot". The inteligence and dignity was sucked out of TREK, and replaced by sophomoric humor, plot/logic holes galore, a complete misunderstanding of what makes TREK TREK, and lots of pointless action setpieces.

Abrams' TREK is essentially a STAR WARS movie with every last well-know TREK bit from pop-culture's collective memory thrown in for the identifiability/branding factor (Kirk banging green women, "I've givin' it all she's got, Captain!", etc.).

The film, unlike TOS, was clearly made by people who had no understanding of the military whatsoever. And, of course, it's another pointless origin story that didn't need to be told.

What's the origin story of TOS? The Enterprise was built. It had several Captains, and crew members came and went over the decades, as in any military organization. The crew of TOS came together in exactly that way--promotions, transfers, retirements and deaths led to that particularly group of people coming together on that ship.

It's laughable that Abrams' Enterprise was built at exactly the same time that all of these cadets (who, despite wildly varying ages and career histories in TOS, somehow mostly went to the Academy at the same time in this version) came together to serve aboard her.

 

One of my very favorite elements of TOS is the believability factor that went into the creation of that world and its backstory. A lot of thought went into the concepts and the technology, even if it wasn't always explicitly shown on-screen. The Enterprise was sleek and simple (unlike the hideous Abramsprise) because that made sense, from a futuristic point of view. The Enterprise had a long history, with different Captains and crewmen coming and going. The world and backstory of TREK were believable.

And, timeline change, "get out of continuity jail free", reboot nonsense aside, James Kirk was a stack of books with legs, and a serious commander with wit and nobility. He was not womanizing pub-brawler who got promoted from cadet to Captain by Madea within a period of several days.

 

 

 

An entertaining popcorn movie? Sure! STAR TREK? Not a chance.

Post
#573758
Topic
Hopefully the last 70mm vs. 35mm ESB audio differences thread
Time

When Luke finally collapses in the snow, he lets out a grunt as he lands on his face.  No grunt in 70mm; No grunt in 85PS; No grunt in 93; grunt is in SE

 

Yoda makes a frightened "Ehhhhh!" sound just before Luke says "Like we're being watched" and points his blaster at him.  No frightened "Ehhhh!" in 70mm: not in 85PS; not in 93; "Ehhhh!" is in SE

 

 

 

I can faintly hear the face-fall grunt in the pre-SE mixes.

 

There's also the grunting as he tries to free his feet from the ice in the Wampa cave and the lightsaber deactivation sound effect, which are mixed much lower in the pre-SE mixes.

The grunting as he falls down the carbon-freezing steps may have been added for the SE,  however, since I don't hear it in the earlier mixes (although I haven't heard the 70mm).

 

Also, Yoda's "Ehhhh!" was there at some point before the SE. I have an old VHS tape with a recorded 1980 tv review of the movie, and a clip from that scene shown during the review features the "Ehhhh!"

Post
#571859
Topic
70mm 6-Track Dolby Stereo mix differences
Time

Yeah, I really like that realistic soundfield in the original mixes.

For example, "Now, remember, Chewbacca, you have a responsibility to me, so don't do anything foolish." is partially drowned out by the giant retrieval claw in the carbon-freezing chamber, which is nice and realistic.

For the SE, the line is now clear and easy to hear, yes, but that realistic effect is lost.

 

Same as Yoda's "Yes, run! Yes! A Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression...the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow.", etc.

All of that dialogue was always there in the early mixes (but, thanks to the realism of the soundfield, it wasn't all easy to hear), but the SE made it all much clearer, and even elminated some of Artoo's beeping, which was stepping on some of that dialogue.

Post
#571810
Topic
70mm 6-Track Dolby Stereo mix differences
Time

I have a good ear for this sort of thing, I guess.

 

At the very least, we know it wasn't just added in for the SE, since it apparently was there in the 70mm version.

Why would they then take it out for the 35mm mix? I think it was just buried in the mix in favor of emphasizing the dramatic music.

And considering a lot of the carefully-considered directional/spatial effects in the original EMPIRE mixes (which were lost in the later SE versions), it does make sense to me that it would be faint effect, since Luke's back is to the camera, and he's some distance "away" from the audience. It's more realistic from an aural perspective, that way, instead of having a loud sound effect for a character who is exiting the scene.

Post
#571775
Topic
70mm 6-Track Dolby Stereo mix differences
Time

msycamore said:

Gregatron said: 

The deactivation sound appears to be there in the GOUT and the earlier mixes, but it's just buried much deeper in the mix. 

Are you absolutely sure about this? because I definitely cannot hear it in either the original Dolby Stereo or the remastered '93 track.

Gregatron said: 

Also, the SE mixes seem to have it come earlier in the shot, when the saber is still seen to be lit. So, this error seems to have been introduced for the SE, whereas the original got it right.

I'm a little confused by your description. Luke's saber is seen to be lit all throughout the shot when he runs out of the cave. That's why the deactivation sound of his saber is out of place there in the 70mm mix and SE, but you say that it's there in the other mixes as well, just buried much deeper in the mix, I may be wrong but I cannot hear it.

hairy_hen, I avoided to add those two sounds that appear in the '93 surround until we know for sure they're part of the 70mm audio.

 

I'm pretty sure. I just checked the GOUT again. It's really, REALLY, REALLY buried in the mix. It's easier to hear the sound on the GOUT's French and Spanish tracks, which I believe are sourced from the 70mm mix. It's nowhere near as prominent as the SE version, however.

After listening to the foreign tracks and toggling back to English, I believe it's there. They're almost totally inaudible, but the hum of the saber and the deactivation sound appear to be there. The music is very loud on the English track, and so the sound effects are almost totally buried.

 

As for the confusion...

There's a brief moment at the end of the shot where the blade is obscured by Hamill's body, which is where the deactivation sound comes in.

For the 1997/2004 SE, however,  the sound effects seem slightly ahead of the picture by a fraction of a second or so (Luke slicing his feet free from the cave ceiling, the saber deactivation sound, etc.). This is probably due to the newly-inserted Wampa shots throwing the sync off slightly when they remixed the scene.

After all, the musical acknowledgments of the saber's Force-movement in the snow (duh-DUH...duh-DUH...duh-DUH) are also way out of sync in the SE version, due to the added footage, and the need to loop and retime the music. It appears that the sound effects were similarly offset from the picture.

In the earlier mixes, the sound was in-sync, so the deactivation is heard at that moment when Hamill's body obscures the blade. In the SE, we hear the sound while the blade is still visible.

Since the next shot features Luke scrambling out of the cave with his saber turned off, it certainly makes sense that they added the deactivation sound into the tail-end of the preceding shot. But the SE seems to have created an "error" where there wasn't one in the original mixes, because now we hear the sound while the blade is still visible.

 

Post
#571653
Topic
70mm 6-Track Dolby Stereo mix differences
Time

msycamore said:

THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

  • When Luke runs out of the wampa cave, there is a sound of his lightsaber deactivating even though it stays lit onscreen. (This error later reappeared in the '97 Special Edition audio mix)

 

 

The deactivation sound appears to be there in the GOUT and the earlier mixes, but it's just buried much deeper in the mix.

Also, the SE mixes seem to have it come earlier in the shot, when the saber is still seen to be lit. So, this error seems to have been introduced for the SE, whereas the original got it right.

 

Post
#570267
Topic
Nancy Allen on Irvin Kirshner
Time

Here's a good summation of ROBOCOP 2's history:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOOWqnxe4KE

 

I don't think the final film was really Miller or Kershner's fault, because:

 

A) Miller's script was heavily reworked.

B) Kershner was brought in at the last minute, and worked under difficult conditions.

 

Miller's original script was adapted into comic book form a few years back, and that version seems closer to the style of the first film. Bits and pieces of the script found their way into both ROBOCOP 2 and 3.

 

Of course, the cardinal sin of the sequel is that (not unlike EMPIRE) it hits the reset button. The first film was all about RoboCop escaping the control of his corporate masters, bringing his own killers to justice, and reclaiming his former identity.

By film's end, he's essentially reclaimed his human identity, although he's really no longer Alex Murphy or RoboCop. This unique cyborg entity must find his own destiny and identity from this point on.

There's also a subtle transition in the latter half of the film--Robo's speech mannerisms become more human, and the electronic processing of his voice gradually disappears.

The sequel turns him back into the "Thank-you-for-your-cooperation. Good-night." automation that everyone remembers so well from the first film, and half-heartedly retreads his quest to explore/regain his humanity.

The sequel is a patchy mess, although the novelization and comic help explain some of the plot holes.

 

I think that ROBOCOP is one of the best genre films of the 80s, and maybe even one of the best films of the 80s, period (along with other dark sci-fi films, like Cronenberg's THE FLY and THE TERMINATOR. Is anyone else heartbroken that Fox rejected Cronenberg's recently-proposed FLY sequel? I WANT TO READ THAT SCRIPT!!!!).

And it could only have been made by Paul Verhoeven, with his unique sensibilities. His outsider-looking-in perspective alowed him to make a film that brilliantly skewers the stupidity of American TV and Reaganomics.

The film works brilliantly on two levels--on the one hand, it's a perfect over-the-top satire, and on the other, it's a genuinely engaging action/sci-fi thriller with a real emotional core.

It amazes me how the film's two disparate tonalities work so well together.

For example:

Within minutes, we go from Kinney's hilariously over-the-top murder ("Does somebody want to call a G*** d*** paramedic?") to Murphy's absolutely horrifying (moreso in the unrated cut) torture and murder by Boddicker's gang.

And yet it all works perfectly.

(As an aside, that whole sequence--Murphy's mutilation and the doctors' attempts to save him--is absolutely brilliant. It's horiffic, surreal, and emotional, and it perfectly sets up RoboCop's character for the rest of the movie.)

 

The sequel utterly fails to recapture this balance. As a result, the humor seems too campy and forced, and the violence mean-spirited and existing for its own sake. And I tend to agree with Roger Ebert's disgust over Hob, a child who swears, uses guns, and gets killed. That feels really inappropriate for this kind of movie.

 

Unfortunately, ROBOCOP is one of those (many) films where anything after the first film fails miserably.

I would almost go so far as to say the same thing about STAR WARS. As much as I love EMPIRE, that's when the retcons and the gradual chipping away of the elegant simplicity of the original film began.

Post
#280985
Topic
70 mm print of the Empire Strikes Back Differences
Time
Okay, Mark Hamill recorded the line, "The first transport is away!". For most versions up until the 1997 SE, the line was pitched down, presumably to make his voice sound less recognizable. From 1997 on, it sounds the way it was originally recorded.


Also, it appears that the 2006 GOUT "bonus" EMPIRE DVD features the 70mm mix on the French and Spanish language tracks. While all of the dialogue is dubbed into those languages, the sound effects and such seem to match up with the list of 70mm differences (many of which made their way back into the 1997 and 2004 SEs) .
Post
#274688
Topic
The Big List of Changes to the Star Wars films
Time

I think this might be useful reference for people who have questions about all the sound mixes and theatrical/SE/DVD changes. Please submit any corrections that may be needed.

 

STAR WARS:

 

The first version of STAR WARS was released in 32 theaters on May 25th, 1977. This version had no “Episode IV: A New Hope” subtitle in the opening crawl, and was reportedly missing the scene where Chewbacca scares the mouse droid (which was added soon after the opening day).

Here’s a site with great info on the intial release:

http://www.fromscripttodvd.com/star_wars_a_day_long_remembered.htm or http://web.archive.org/web/20120118084334/fromscripttodvd.com/star_wars_a_day_long_remembered.htm

http://www.fromscripttodvd.com/star_wars_70mm_engagements.htm or http://web.archive.org/web/20160807150454/http://fromscripttodvd.com/star_wars_70mm_engagements.htm
 

There were three audio mixes, and whichever print was used depended on how a given theater was equipped.

  1. 35mm stereo (optical, two-track/four-channel)

  2. 35mm stereo (magnetic, four-track)

  3. 70mm stereo (magnetic, six-track)

The 35mm and 70mm mixes are essentially the same, except that the 70mm track had additional sound channels. Also, some minor enhancements/changes were made for the 35mm stereo versions, since those versions would be heard in more theaters than the prestigious 70mm version.

  1. 35mm mono (optical)

The most work went into the mono mix, since that was the version that would be heard in most theaters (because monaural speakers were the standard in theaters at that time). This version has additional/alternate lines of dialogue (such as Luke saying “Blast it, Wedge, where are you?” instead of “Blast it, Biggs…” during the Death Star battle, and a Stormtrooper saying “Close the blast doors!” on the Death Star while chasing Han and Chewbacca), a different voice for Aunt Beru, and added sound effects.

This mono mix is the version that went into wide release in the summer of 1977.

Amazingly enough, despite being the “definitive” mix for the film in 1977, this mono version has faded into obscurity. It was never released on video/laserdisc/DVD (in the US, at least), and is only available through low-quality bootlegs today.

 

 

Here’s a great site that has audio clip comparisons of the different mixes:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/russdawson/mono/ or http://web.archive.org/web/20160126121513/http://homepage.ntlworld.com/russdawson/mono/
 

For the 1981 theatrical re-release, the opening crawl was reshot, and “Episode IV: A New Hope” was added. It has appeared in all subsequent versions. Lucas has said that he’d always wanted the subtitle included, but studio execs forced him to omit it, since they feared that audiences would be confused by it. Once the film became a success, and Lucas had more clout, he put it back in. The title appears at the head of the screenplay published in “The Art of Star Wars” (1979), which lends credence to the notion that it was intended to be there from the start.

The original Dolby stereo (70mm/35mm) mix(es) was used for all VHS and Betamax releases until 1985.

In 1985, Ben Burtt remixed the film, combining elements of all mixes. The result is bascially the Dolby Stereo mix, but with added sound effects and dialogue (most notably, C-3PO’s lines: “The tractor beam is coupled to the main reactor in seven locations. A power loss at one of the terminals will allow the ship to leave.”) that had previously been exclusive to the mono mix.

The 1985 mix was used for all releases until 1993.

In 1993, the film was remixed by Burtt once again for the “Definitive Collection” laserdisc boxset. This mix is based mainly on the original 70mm Stereo mix, but with elements from the 35mm and mono versions (as well as brand-new sound effects not heard in any previous version) tossed in. Threepio’s tractor beam lines are missing again.
 

There are some significant differences between the 1985 and 1993 mixes. Here are a few:

1. 1993 version has added sounds for the opening ship-to-ship battle, and an added explosion sound which prompts Threepio to enter the escape pod.

2. 1993: Some added Artoo/Chewie “dialogue” in various scenes (taken from the mono mix).

2. 1993: New asteroid/TIE laser sound effects when the Falcon comes out of hyperspace.

3. 1993: Many new “breaking glass” sounds added to the detention block camera explosions.

This mix was reused for the 1995 “Last chance to own the original trilogy” VHS and laserdisc releases.

For the 1997 Special Edition, Burtt remixed the film yet again. This was an attempt to combine the best of all prior mixes, as well as adding to/enhancing the soundtrack (and adding effects and music to the newly inserted/extended scenes). Thus, dialogue and sounds that people hadn’t heard since 1977 ( such as “Close the blast doors!”) were added back into the film.

And, of course, the film was radically altered. New scenes and CG effects were added, existing scenes were enhanced with CG effects, most of the original opticals were recomposited with the original elements to increase the image quality/clarity (and eliminate matte lines and other artifacts), and the color timing was redone.

 

 

Here’s a great site (which hasn’t been updated in several years, unfortunately) that has side-by-side comparisons of most of the changes made for the 1997 SE:

http://home.earthlink.net/~treadwell_jay/starwars/anhindex.htm or http://web.archive.org/web/20080429220044/http://home.earthlink.net/~treadwell_jay/starwars/anhindex.htm

 

 

For the 2004 Star Wars Trilogy DVD set, the film was remixed into 5.1 surround sound. Some new sound effects were added here and there (for example, new clashing sounds have been added to the Vader/Kenobi duel). Many people complained about how, in this version, the music fades out when the X-Wings make their initial swoop toward the Death Star (when a bold version of “Ben’s Theme” is supposed to be heard).

Some new visual effects and changes were also added, including a new CG Jabba the Hutt to replace the 1997 version. The color timing was also redone by Lowry Digital to help the original trilogy visually match the prequels in terms of color saturation/constrast.

 

Here’s the official Star Wars website’s breakdown of changes made for both the 1997 SE and the 2004 DVD…

http://www.starwars.com/episode-iv/release/video/f20060825/index.html or http://web.archive.org/web/20080325163706/http://www.starwars.com/episode-iv/release/video/f20060825/index.html
 

…and an unofficial site’s comparison:

http://www.dvdactive.com/editorial/articles/star-wars-the-changes-part-one.html or http://web.archive.org/web/20180601013736/http://www.dvdactive.com/editorial/articles/star-wars-the-changes-part-one.html

The 2004 trilogy DVD set was re-released in 2005 without the bonus disc (and with new packaging).

 

 

The 2006 individual DVD releases of the three films are just reissues of the 2004 discs. However, each 2-disc set included a (non-anamorphic) bonus disc containing one of the “original, unaltered” movies.

These “original” versions are just the 1993 laserdisc masters, with the same sound mixes and image quality from the so-called “Definitive Collection”. The only difference between the 2006 DVD and the “Definitive Collection” laserdisc is the original opening crawl (which lacks the “Episode IV” subtitle), which was tacked onto the beginning of the movie (and which also allows the musical “crash” to be properly in sync with the reveal of Tatooine, as it was originally, before the “ANH” subtitle was added in 1981).

The disc’s optional Spanish and French audio tracks (which were probably dug out of the Lucasfilm Archives for this Limited Edition release), however, are based on the rarely-heard MONO sound mix from 1977.
 

How do I know?

Threepio says the famous tractor beam lines (in French/Spanish), dialogue that does not appear in the 1993 mix.

Luke (albeit speaking in French/Spanish) says, “Blast it, Wedge, where are you?” (as he does in the mono mix), as opposed to, “Blast it, Biggs, where are you?” as he does in all other versions of the movie.

The Falcon’s chessboard creatures make some different sounds than they do in all other versions of the movie (these sounds are from the mono mix).

The additional Falcon cockpit beeping sounds (and the whizzing asteroid sounds heard as the ship comes out of hyperspace) that were originally exclusive to the mono mix (and were added back in for the 1997 SE) can be heard on the Spanish and French tracks.

On the 2004 DVD, the Spanish language audio track is completely new, and uses the 2004 SE sound mix as its basis.

However, the French audio track is the same one that appears on the “bonus disc” (This version is still based on the original mono mix, with the same French-speaking voice actors as can be heard on the “bonus disc”. In this version, French-speaking Luke still says, “Blast it, Wedge, where are you?”, while on the new Spanish track, he says, “Blast it, Biggs, where are you?”, as in the 2004 SE.), but with the SE material spliced in at the appropriate spots! It seems they even used different voice actors for the added scenes and dialogue (such as Han’s voice in the restored Jabba scene)!

But, aside from the SE audio additions, the original sound effects for the Vader/Kenobi duel can still be heard on the French track, as well as the alternate Falcon chessboard creature sounds from the mono mix!

 

 

Here’s a complete domestic (US) home video timeline for STAR WARS (minus the the most recent DVD re-releases from 2005 and 2006):

http://davisdvd.com/misc/starwars/ep4.htm or http://web.archive.org/web/20070930210931/http://www.davisdvd.com/misc/starwars/ep4.htm

 

 

THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK:

 

The film was initially released on May 21, 1980 in 70mm.

http://www.fromscripttodvd.com/empire_strikes_back_70mm_engagements.htm or http://web.archive.org/web/20170702231434/http://www.fromscripttodvd.com/empire_strikes_back_70mm_engagements.htm

 

The 70mm version features some notable difference from the version we’re all used to. Here’s a brief list of them (which originally appeared in an issue of American Cinematographer, I think):

After the probe droid lands, there is an optical wipe to the overhead shot of Luke on his Tauntaun.

After Luke wanders through the snow and falls face down, there is an optical wipe to Han instead of a straight cut.

Han says “until I can get the shelter up” instead of “until I can get the shelter built” as he stuffs Luke into the tauntaun carcass. Luke contines to moan, “Ben… Dagobah…” after he’s inside the tauntaun. The “shelter up” version (and the additional moans from Luke) was added back in for the 1997 SE and 2004 DVD.

The line “The first transport is away!” was provided by Mark Hamill. In the 70mm version (and the 1997 SE and 2004 DVD), it sounds like him. For all other versions, the dialogue was artificially deepened so as to sound different.

The first medical center scene starts on a close-up of 2-1B and then pans right to a close-up of Luke in the tank. It then cuts to FX-7 extending its arm to the tank. There is no cut to Leia, Han and Threepio observing.

When C-3PO tells Luke “It’s so good to see you fully functional again,” Luke replies “Thanks, Threepio.” This reappeared in the 1997 and 2004 mixes.

Han’s dialogue, “Transport, this is Solo. Better take off, I can’t get to you. I’ll get her out on the Falcon” is followed by, “Come on!” There is also an additional grunt from Leia as he drags her along, and her scream as the ice tunnel collapses is slightly longer. This was added back into the 1997 and 2004 mixes.

In the asteroid field, after C-3PO says “Oh, this is suicide,” he says, “There’s no where to go.” This was added back into the 1997 and 2004 mixes.

In the scene where R2-D2 is spit up by the swamp monster, Luke says “You were lucky to get out of there” instead of “You’re lucky you don’t taste very good.” This original line was added back into the 1997 and 2004 mixes.

Yoda cries out in fear when Luke points his blaster at him, and there are many more alarmed beeps from Artoo when Yoda rummages through Luke’s supplies. These were added back into the 1997 and 2004 mixes.

When the Emperor speaks with Vader, the hologram is already present in the first shot - it does not “tune in” gradually.

Yoda’s dialogue (“Yes, run! Yes. A Jedi’s strength flows from the force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression. The dark side of the force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight.” is loud, clear and easy to hear. Later versions mixed down this dialogue, and added R2-D2 beeps to the scene. This early version appears in the 1997 and 2004 mixes.

The shot of the Imperial fleet before Vader speaks to the bounty hunters has additional TIE fighter sound effects. This was added back into the 1997 and 2004 mixes.

In Cloud City, after C-3PO says “That sounds like an R2 unit in there. I wonder if it…” he says “Hello?” only once instead of twice, and a different, more aggressive take of “Who are you?” is used. This was added back into the 1997 and 2004 mixes.

During the lightsaber duel, when Luke knocks Vader off the platform, Vader grunts (reused from the moment when Luke shoves the severed hose into Vader’s face) instead of a scream of “Arrrgghhh!”. This was added back into the 1997 and 2004 mixes.

When Luke falls from the weather vane onto the Millennium Falcon, the Falcon’s radar/sensor dish does not appear in the shot.

The telepathy between Luke and Vader near the end of the film uses hard cuts instead of quick dissolves.

Lando’s line at the end, “Luke, we’re ready for takeoff.” is a different take.

In the final scene, there is no tracked music from from the scene where Yoda tells Luke that “Size matters not”.

It has also been rumored that this version has the Rebel fleet jumping to hyperspace immediately before the end credits.

 

The 35mm version that saw a much wider release featured some changes. Alternate lines of dialogue were included, some sound effects disappeared, and several visual effects shots were added to the final scene to help establish the Falcon’s spatial relationship to the Rebel cruiser’s medical center. This is the version that appeared in most home video releases.
 

In 1985, as with Star Wars, the film was remixed, but no major changes have been reported.
 

In 1993, the film was remixed for the Definitive Collection laserdisc set, and is missing the high-pitched whine from the snowspeeder before it crashes (right before the Rebel power generators are blown up), a sound effect that appears in the 70mm, 1985, 1997, and 2004 mixes. The 1993 mix was reused for the 1995 VHS/laserdisc release.

 

For the 1997 Special Edition, Burtt remixed the film yet again. This was an attempt to combine the best of all prior mixes (using the highest-quality surviving sound elements), as well as adding to/enhancing the soundtrack (and adding effects and music to the newly inserted/extended scenes). Thus, dialogue that people hadn’t heard since 1980 (such as “You were lucky to get out of there!”) was added back into the film.

And, of course, the film was radically altered. New scenes and CG effects were added, existing scenes were enhanced with CG effects, most of the original opticals were recomposited with the original elements to increase the image quality/clarity (and eliminate matte lines and other artifacts), and the color timing was redone.

 

 

Here’s a great site (which hasn’t been updated in several years, unfortunately) that has side-by-side comparisons of most of the changes made for the 1997 SE:

http://home.earthlink.net/~treadwell_jay/starwars/esbindex.htm or http://web.archive.org/web/20061221180451/http://home.earthlink.net/~treadwell_jay/starwars/esbindex.htm
 

For the 2004 DVD, the film was remixed into 5.1 surround sound. Some new sound effects were added here and there (for example, Luke’s lightsaber now makes the sound effect that his green-bladed JEDI saber makes when he first activates it at Cloud City). Luke’s scream from the 1997 SE (as he falls down the Cloud City reactor shaft–actually a reuse of the Emperor’s death scream from JEDI) was removed for the DVD.

Some new visual effects and changes were also added, including inserting Ian McDiarmid into the scene where Vader speaks to the Emperor. The color timing was redone by Lowry Digital to help the original trilogy visually match the prequels in terms of color saturation/constrast.
 

Here’s the official site’s breakdown of changes made for both the 1997 SE and the 2004 DVD…

http://www.starwars.com/episode-v/release/video/f20060901/index.html or http://web.archive.org/web/20070320212258/http://www.starwars.com/episode-v/release/video/f20060901/index.html
 

…and an unofficial site’s comparison:

http://www.dvdactive.com/editorial/articles/star-wars-the-changes-part-two.html or http://web.archive.org/web/20181215223317/http://www.dvdactive.com/editorial/articles/star-wars-the-changes-part-two.html

 

For the 2006 “original, unlatered” EMPIRE bonus disc, the English audio track on the bonus disc is the same as the 1993 “Definitive Collection” sound mix. However, the French and Spanish audio tracks feature a different sound mix than the 1993 Definitive Collection, a mix which appears to be based on the original 70 mm sound mix from the film’s initial theatrical release!

This alternate mix features some additional sounds that were not heard on the 35mm and subsequent home video versions, but which were later reincorporated into the 1997 and 2004 mixes. Such sounds include additional R2-D2 beeps when Yoda rummages through Luke’s supplies, and the additional TIE fighter engine sounds in the establishing shot of Darth Vader’s Star Destroyer (after Luke beheads the illusory Vader on Dagobah).
 

On the 2004 Empire DVD, the Spanish audio track is completely new (as with ANH and ROTJ), and uses the 2004 SE mix as its basis.

However, the French audio track is the same one that appears on the “bonus disc” (based on the original 70 mm mix, with the same French-speaking voice actors), but with the SE material spliced in at the appropriate spots. For example, Luke does not say, “Thanks, Threepio.” in the Hoth medical center in the French version (but he does in the new SE Spanish track).
 

Here’s a complete home video timeline for EMPIRE (minus the 2005 and 2006 DVD releases):

http://davisdvd.com/misc/starwars/ep5.htm or http://web.archive.org/web/20071002213152/http://www.davisdvd.com/misc/starwars/ep5.htm

 

 

RETURN OF THE JEDI:

 

The film was released on May 25, 1983 in both 70mm and 35mm. No differences or alternate sound mixes have been reported yet.

http://www.fromscripttodvd.com/return_of_the_jedi_70mm_engagements.htm or http://web.archive.org/web/20180118092539/http://www.fromscripttodvd.com/return_of_the_jedi_70mm_engagements.htm
 

The film was remixed by Ben Burtt in 1985 and 1993, but no differences have been reported.
 

For the 1997 Special Edition, Burtt remixed the film once again. This was an attempt to combine the best of all prior mixes, as well as adding to/enhancing the soundtrack (and adding effects and music to the newly inserted/extended scenes).

And, of course, the film was radically altered. New scenes and CG effects were added, existing scenes were enhanced with CG effects, most of the original opticals were recomposited with the original elements to increase the image quality/clarity (and eliminate matte lines and other artifacts), and the color timing was redone.

 

Here’s a great site (which hasn’t been updated in several years, unfortunately) that has side-by-side comparisons of most of the changes made for the 1997 SE:

http://home.earthlink.net/~treadwell_jay/starwars/rojindex.htm or http://web.archive.org/web/20081003223901/http://home.earthlink.net/~treadwell_jay/starwars/rojindex.htm
 

For the 2004 DVD, the film was remixed into 5.1 surround sound. Some new sound effects were added here and there. Several new visual effects and changes were also added, including the insertion of Hayden Christensen as Anakin Skywalker’s ghost to the end of the film. The color timing was also redone by Lowry Digital to help the original trilogy visually match the prequels in terms of color saturation/constrast.

 

Here’s the official site’s breakdown of changes made for both the 1997 SE and the 2004 DVD…

http://www.starwars.com/episode-vi/release/video/f20060908/index.html or http://web.archive.org/web/20071128135859/http://www.starwars.com/episode-vi/release/video/f20060908/index.html

…and an unofficial site’s comparison:

http://www.dvdactive.com/editorial/articles/star-wars-the-changes-part-three.html or http://web.archive.org/web/20181215223709/http://www.dvdactive.com/editorial/articles/star-wars-the-changes-part-three.html
 

Finally, for the JEDI 2004 DVD, the Spanish audio track is completely new (As with STAR WARS and EMPIRE), and uses the 2004 SE mix as its basis. However, the French audio track is the same as the one on the 2006 “original, unaltered” bonus disc (presumably an original foreign dub that was dug out of the Archives for the DVD), albeit with new SE material spliced in.
 

Here’s a complete home video timeline for JEDI (minus the 2005 and 2006 DVD releases):

http://davisdvd.com/misc/starwars/ep6.htm or http://web.archive.org/web/20071008000455/http://www.davisdvd.com/misc/starwars/ep6.htm

 

 

THE PHANTOM MENACE:

 

The film was released on May 19th, 1999, both on traditional film and (in the very few theaters equipped for it) digitally.
 

In the original theatrical version, Sebulba’s subtitles in his first scene read, “You won’t walk away from this one, Skywalker…you slave scum!”. For the 2001 DVD, “Skywalker” was removed, since Sebulba doesn’t actually say Anakin’s last name in the scene.

The Podrace starting grid sequence–and the race itself–were extended for the DVD.

Watto’s celebratory cry of “Sebulba!” during the Podrace was removed for the DVD.

The deleted air taxi sequence on Coruscant was inserted, but also appears in the DVD’s deleted scenes section.

In the Senate sequence, a particular alien senator’s human aides were replaced with alien characters for the DVD.
 

There were allegedly some other minor tweaks, as well.

Home video timeline for Episode I:

http://davisdvd.com/misc/starwars/ep1.htm or http://web.archive.org/web/20071007073348/http://www.davisdvd.com/misc/starwars/ep1.htm

 

 

ATTACK OF THE CLONES:

 

The film was released on May 16, 2002. It was released on film, as well as digitally.

The digital theatrical version had some tinkering that distinguished it from the film version.

The most well-known difference is in the movie’s final scene, where Anakin’s mechanical hand holds Padme’s. In the theatrical film release, his mechanical hand merely hangs at his side. The version seen in the digital theatrical version is the one that appears on the DVD.

For the DVD, several other changes were made:

Several deleted lines of dialogue were added to Anakin’s confession of the Tusken Raider slaughter, and the music has been looped to accomodate the footage.

During Mace Windu and Jango Fett’s fight, additional smoke and sparks were added to Jango’s jetpack to make it clear that he could not simply rocket away and escape Windu’s killing blow.

After Padmé falls out of the Republic gunship, a Clone Trooper asks her if she is all right. Her original, energetic response of “Yes!” (which actually elicited laughter in some screenings) was changed to a more realistic and groggy “Uh-huh.” for the DVD.
 

Other minor changes for the DVD have also been rumored.

Home video timeline for Episode II:

http://davisdvd.com/misc/starwars/ep2.htm or http://web.archive.org/web/20071006161809/http://www.davisdvd.com/misc/starwars/ep2.htm

 

 

REVENGE OF THE SITH:

 

The film was released on May 19th, 2005 both on film and digitally. No differences between these two versions was reported.

However, in the theatrical version, a wipe was used as a transition from Obi-Wan and C-3PO in the Naboo ship’s cockpit to Vader crawling up the lava bank. The DVD feautres a hard cut from one shot to the other. This is the only reported change for the DVD.
 

Home video timeline for Episode III:

http://davisdvd.com/misc/starwars/ep3.htm or http://web.archive.org/web/20071007022036/http://www.davisdvd.com/misc/starwars/ep3.htm

 

Screencaps and discussion of changes in the Prequels:

http://www.dvdactive.com/editorial/articles/star-wars-the-changes-part-four.html or http://web.archive.org/web/20170708120829/http://www.dvdactive.com/editorial/articles/star-wars-the-changes-part-four.html

 

…WHEW!!!

Papa George just loves his tinkerin’, don’t he?

Post
#246822
Topic
LFL {GAG ORDER MODE]
Time
Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
Originally posted by: Bootfit
...only thing i want to know if members of this site and sites like Home Theatre Forum and Original Trilogy purists will be finally happy, if you know what i mean???


Please tell me what is wrong with being a purist.

(And whether I'm wrong in getting the distinct impression you write the word with a sneer?)


No, I will not be happy about a Star Wars DVD release until it is as pure as the driven snow. That is, 100% 1977 in ALL aspects - - including the soundtrack. They have 3 to choose from, so it shouldn't be that difficult to include only sounds that appeared on one of those three tracks.

But until they stop lying with 'Original Theatrical Release' on a version that has sounds added in the 80's, I will not be happy.




The only REAL problems I had with the recent GOUT DVDs are:

1. Non-anamorphic, no new transfers.

2. No audio options for the different original mixes (70 mm, 35 mm, mono, 1985, 1993). So, the English tracks use the 1993 laserdisc mixes, but the freaking Spanish and French audio tracks use the original mono (Star Wars) and 70 mm (ESB) mixes?!?!? does that make sense for what was billed as "the original theatrical experience"?

3. No selectible opening crawl for post-1981 ANH.


And that's about it, really.


I think people have taken the GOUT release a bit too lightly. Remember, LFL had said for years and years (since 1995, really), that we'd never see the OUT again. EVER.

Yet, along comes this "Limited Edition" release.


We've gotten out feet in the door, people. It was a small step, but it proves that they've started to listen.


That's a major victory in this whole crazy thing.