Gothamknight

I’m planning to mesh the sequels into one film that’s roughly 3 hours long. I’d like to have Kylo “hear” from Palpatine early on, and visit Exogol before the events of TFA. To that end it would be fantastic if I could alter the color of Ben’s lightsaber in the following scene (either blue or green), but I don’t know how to go about that. I have Vegas 14, but aside from that I don’t want to spend $$ on new software just for a single effect. I’m happy to learn to do this in Vegas if that’s possible, but otherwise would anyone here be willing to make that alteration for me, if it’s not much work??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWiJOIAG5tg

Thank you!

Masquerade Overture said:

Here’s the original cue sheet from John William’s scoring from a longer cut of the movie circa 11/10/19 if anyone wants to take up what’s “missing” (or even the order of the scenes, which ended up being totally restructured for the first half of the movie):

https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/31290-jwfan-exclusive-the-rise-of-skywalker-partial-cue-list-revealed/&do=findComment&comment=1686208

M=Reel (which equals to about 20 minutes each)

SparkySywer said:
What is this, the Gotham Knight thread? lol

😃 Just trying to catch up. Don’t mean to monopolize. There’s just so much good stuff here to respond to.

Fair enough. Your take is always well thought-out, I’ll give you that!

Bear in mind, though, that self-sacrifice (or a deserved consequence) doesn’t negate forgiveness. We see this now and again in actual murder trials where the victim’s family forgives the killer, yet it doesn’t negate or contradict the court’s duty to punish them.

I dunno, maybe I’ll leave Ben’s fate open-ended.

RogueLeader said:

Star Wars is for 12-year-olds. It’s a fairy tale. Most kids don’t have genocidal tyrants as parents, but a kid that has a rocky relationship with his dad might relate to the struggles between Luke and Vader. The physical scar of Vader cutting his own son’s hand off is meant to reflect the emotional scars a parent can deliver to their child (perhaps some physical ones as well). I don’t know if I could forgive my dad if he literally cut my hand off, or if he killed my own mother, or tortured my sister, or was a literal serial-killer but seeing Luke forgive his father, and still have faith in his inner good, could help me be able to forgive my own father for things he’s said and done in the past.

It’s the exact same thing with Ben Solo. Ben Solo is the kid that has gone down the wrong path in life. They’ve lost their way. He’s hurt or disappointed the people who love and care about him. Ben Solo represents the idea that even if you’ve done bad things in life or have disappointed your loved ones, you can still come back from that and make amends. This message would be much stronger if Ben Solo actually survived and had to continue his life on a better path. Paying for your actions through self-sacrifice works for a paternal figure like Vader, but the same ending for a coming-of-age character like Ben is, in my opinion, weak and lazy writing. Paying for your actions through death is a rather pessimistic resolution for a character that younger audiences are meant to relate to. I’ve seen so many people get hung up on this idea of Ben Solo being a war-criminal or mass-murderer in-universe, but it seems to me many Star Wars fans forget what purpose Lucas always intended for these stories to serve. They measure Star Wars on the standards of reality rather than allegory.

idir_hh said:
Frankly I think that if Rey was a well written character nobody would be talking about identity politics.

Here, here!! 👏

Very well done, especially the first part.

On the second, my own approach would be to have Kylo again experience that vision, but cutting Vader’s head off coincided with his rejection of the dark side at “Endor” (😉).

Cameron Samurai said:

I recently found the Kylo vs Vader fanfilm. I think one editor a while back borrowed something from this for a Force Awakens edit, but I think it could be integrated into Rise of Skywalker fairly easily and be used to inform the audience of a lot of Kylo’s motivations. You could also push his journey to Exogal up to follow from it

Here’s what I came up with (password: fanedit)

Beginning

https://vimeo.com/407054789

Ending

https://vimeo.com/407074114

RogueLeader said:
She could hear [Force-ghosts] calling her to Anakin’s lightsaber (maybe even hearing Anakin’s voice specifically whispering “Rey…”).

To paraphrase Vader: “Intriguing. Most intriguing.” I was all set to just cut that scene altogether. What about giving Rey a rapid series of images/vision fragments associated with that saber, and then cut the scene to the F.O. attack outside the fortress?

If this could be tied to the premonitions of “Dark Rey,” then it would thematically imply that Rey and Ben are dealing with the same temptation. Indeed, the above “vision fragments” could include a glimpse of Kylo reaching out his hand to her.

Wow. This is quite outstanding. I’m going to have to seriously consider this approach.

OutboundFlight said:

What about making Rey a Jedi to begin with? It’s rough, but suppose Rey is an exile after the destruction of the temple. It would explain Kylo’s concern of a girl on Jakku helping her, and avoid repeating Luke’s becoming a Jedi arc.

To do so, you’d have to cut all the references to Rey not knowing why she’s so strong in the force. Then you really just need one line - Kylo in a mask would be easiest to replicate - telling Hux or Snoke “a former student of Skywalker, turned exile. Unrefined, but powerful” kabam Rey’s power solved without any complicated lore.

And while writing this I realized it accomplishes the following:

—-Gives Rey a stronger reason to be so secretive of her past and reject the call to the Jedi, because of her bad childhood memories.
—-Makes Luke’s struggle to rebuild the Jedi meaningful because without it Rey, like it or not the ultimate hero of the saga, was brought up by him. So Luke plays a vital role in the final victory.
—-Makes Luke Rey’s father figure who took her in after her real parents (who she presumes are important in TLJ) sold her for drinking money. So that’s why she chooses the name Skywalker (right now it’s Organa she has more connection with).

EddieDean said:
Firstly, imply more training.

Agreed. I just don’t think from the beginning of TLJ is sufficient, given that already in TFA she–

a) flies the Falcon as well as Han, though it seems she’s never piloted a ship before;
b) resists Kylo’s Force-probing of her;
c) Force-compels others; and,
d) defeats Kylo-friggin’-Ren in her first-ever lightsaber duel.

Secondly, lean into the ‘she’s using the dark’ angle. Luke explicitly says “You went straight to the dark” in TLJ

This is great, and thanks for the reminder of Luke’s line here.

Personally, I’d supplement this with someone else’s idea to have her kill her own parents accidentally.

EddieDean said:
I’m offended. You use the phrase ‘identity politics’ twice. . . . Not one iota of that happens in Disney Star Wars
Strong women exist. Female characters who serve something other than male characters’ romantic subplot exist. They’re not a threat to you. Get over it.

Interpreting the sequels as having an identity politics-type of agenda simply does not equate to fearing or rejecting strong women. Please don’t jump to that false conclusion and accusation.

Virtually any Disney/Lucasfilm critic you care to name is simultaneously a fan of Ripley, Sarah Connor, Alita, Ahsoka, Wonder Woman, etc. All strong women, all applauded by countless male fans who will nonetheless insist there’s a feminist agenda in Disney Star Wars.

I can’t stand Kathleen Kennedy – yet my boss is a woman and one of the best bosses I’ve ever had.

idir_hh said:
Luke and Leia’s ghosts adopting Rey at the end did feel weird

Enh, I didn’t take it as “adoption” (like, parentally) so much as affirmation of her choice to identify with them.

I gotta say, while the sequel trilogy as a whole contains a cruiser-full of problems, and though I purposely read the spoilers before seeing TROS . . . I was surprisingly moved by that ending.

I’m going to retain “Rey Nobody/Skywalker,” but just have the story begin with her already trained or in training.

😂😂😂😂

krausfadr said:
Make Rey Luke AND Leia’s daughter. Search your feelings. You know it to be true.

This ⬇

NFBisms said:

Even if you believe Star Wars is just supposed to be about the Skywalkers, there’s nothing wrong with having the last trilogy be about the influence of that family and their story. That’s still ostensibly about them.

Rey Nobody, a girl who becomes a hero from being inspired by their legend, is a meaningful way to cap off their legacy. It’s a lot better than a daughter inheriting her father’s responsibility and just seeing it through. (also why Kylo/Ben not seeing his through was interesting!)

RogueLeader said:
I know there have been edits where Luke doesn’t die at the end of TLJ, but there’s really no way to explain his absence in IX if he is actually alive still. The effort might be to try to improve his characterization

I think - given the limited footage - the best way to handle Luke is to frame him as the old Obi-Wan of this trilogy. He’s assumed to have been heavily involved in the “stories we don’t get to see,” and his death is a very natural self-sacrifice that echoes Kenobi’s in ANH.

So basically: remove Johnson’s “Jake Skywalker” mode.

Sometime down the road, I’d love to see a trilogy in which a post-ROTJ Luke, Leia, Han, and Lando are recast, and we see them in adventures that bridge to the ST.

😅 Yes, that’s exactly what I’m doing! I just can’t keep up with it daily.

Hmm, maybe we can assume Chewie has visited his family between movie instalments??

RogueLeader said:

You have been going back through and rereading the thread recently, haven’t you? 😂

Thanks for sharing! The battlefront stuff was something I was looking at using for this idea at the time. I still think it would be a nice way to end Chewie’s story, but I think it would take a lot of work to make it seamless. I’ve kind of moved on from this idea now.

Very well said! I guess in my ST reedit I’m hoping to funnel some of this discussion down into Ben’s character arc. Maybe he hears Force-ghosts expressing exactly the ideas in this thread.

act on instinct said:

In that vein it should also be noted that Star Wars has a lot to say about personal choice vs destiny, the ultimate evil character The Emperor is the one to proclaim “everything is as I have forseen” while Yoda is one to say “always in motion is the future” showing their differences in predestination. Anakin is given a choice and is specifically told he must choose and chooses the dark side (out of fear), Luke also makes a choice to reject that path. It’s there the morals about agency are very intentional, if somewhat muddled.

idir_hh said:

Balance could refer to Yung’s concept of integrating the shadow, being in control of your dark side instead of vice-versa, basically using it for good.

Appreciate these comments, and those by RogueLeader as well. You guys have reminded me of the Star Trek episode in which Kirk gets split into an over-aggressive self and a feeble self. Maybe Force “balance” involves that kind of thing.

In my opinion, though still related to what you two have suggested, the EU had the best Force exploration by far, in the New Jedi Order series.

Thanks for the comments! It’s likely not the final version, but yeah, I’ll drop that landing shot. I just love the Falcon though. ☺

idir_hh said:

Gothamknight said:

I ran with RogueLeader’s idea to produce the following test-run of the final TROS scene. The last shot is Rey’s ignition of her lightsaber.

https://vimeo.com/404633031

The password is gothamknighttros.

The pacing and sound are fantastic, could do away with that landing shot though.
Also very clever restructuring of the scene, I think that if we wanted to stick to tradition with the sunset ending, Rey’s ignited saber could be inserted into the scene , come to think of it, It would be a meaningfull call back to the broom boy scene from TLJ.

NeverarGreat said:

In TLJ the Rey/Ben dynamic feels very much like Rey is being drawn towards trying to ‘fix’ Ben, which is definitely a thing that can happen in romantic fiction with ‘bad boy’ characters.

Perfectly valid point. Well, like I implied earlier, the dynamic between the two of them really is the best element of the sequels.

snooker said:
Maybe the crawl explains that Kylo Ren is searching for a rumored hidden fleet that he can use to dominate the galaxy. The Resistance learns about this and wants to stop them. The fleet becomes the macguffin.

That is almost exactly what I’m planning on, except that I’m going to make it a “rumored Sith world” rather than simply hardware.

Regarding Ben’s helmet: What if he rebuilds it to block out all Force-voices, both good and bad? Maybe he’s trying to be truly independent. This could be a good twist after he learns Palp is out there.

RogueLeader said:

Oh, frig, I love that. That by itself would almost make the Palpatine storyline acceptable.

RogueLeader said:
This reminds me of early TFA theories about Rey being a former Jedi padawan that had her memory blocked through the Force, sorta like Revan.

That sounds fantastic. Too bad there doesn’t appear to be a way to depict that in a reedit.

snooker said:
Ben Solo lives.

Is it just me or do Dark Siders who come back to the light in the broader Star Wars universe tend to get away with the atrocities they committed while “taking a walk on the wild side”?

You see this a number of times in the EU, but it’s even implied in ROTJ, when Luke says to a “redeemed” Anakin: “I’ll not leave you here to die; I’ve got to save you.” Part of me has always thought: Save him for what? A war crimes trial and summary execution?? Cuz that’s surely what he deserved.

So Vader dying was actually poetic justice - exactly as it is for Kylo/Ben.

While I’ll still give some thought to Ben surviving, I’ll likely come down on the side of his paying for his crimes by his self-sacrifice.

(Would love to see a sample of Force-ghost Ben alongside an old Anakin.)

jarbear said:
I like the idea of adding, or hinting, or whatever about the Dyad thing in TFA since it is later spelled out in TROS. I think it would also satisfy people to understand how she “powered up” so quickly in the movies. Much better explanation then JJ’s response in TFA that she “downloaded” all of Kylo’s training.

Sound reasoning there, jarbear.

The issue with an “overpowered” Rey is that zero groundwork was laid within TFA to lead the viewer to expect or just roll with such a thing. There could easily have been a flashback, or a holocron instruction, or Force-users discussing Force lore, wherein is mentioned the rare, periodic emergence of a phenom who is uber-intuitive with the Force. Even TFA’s term “awakening” could’ve been used.

Had that been done, people like me wouldn’t have tended to view Rey as a Mary Sue.

But when you have no such conceptual groundwork, and then Rey (whose actual character I liked!) repeatedly defeats in lightsaber combat a Force-user who’s been trained by Luke Skywalker and has the potential to be another Vader, well . . . a lot of us just didn’t buy it.

Of course that problem won’t exist in my own version.

I am fine with rare abilities or rare things in Jedi

Me too.

Since, well, it invalidates the previous two trilogies. If there is supposed to be a so called “balance” of Dark and Light side users … then the Rule of Two is invalid if there were 1000s of Jedi before.

Good point - although for me the “balance” notion is philosophically a dead-end, so I nixed it from my reedits.

RogueLeader said:
I wonder if we could have the dyad concept introduced in The Force Awakens. Maybe when Kylo and Snoke first speak via hologram, it could go something like this. . . .

Great suggestion.

Then, in the climax of TROS, as she is chanting “Be with me” and the camera floats up to the sky, we could once again hear the indecipherable Force whispers, but this time they crystallize into the voices of the Jedi.

Hmm, what if the “Be with me” scenes were repurposed so that it’s Rey trying to draw Ben back to the light?