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Go-Mer-Tonic

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13-Sep-2006
Last activity
28-Mar-2007
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Post
#249953
Topic
I've given this a lot of thought, and I've decided this makes no sense. (Qui-Gon and Anakin's ghosts.)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/249953/action/topic#249953
Time
I would guess he would have seen it if Rick has. I think that as much as he wants his films to be his way, he would appreciate your take on his work much more than criticism that comes from people who simply tell him what he did "sucks". Instead you offer an alternative without condemning what Lucas had done himself. I think it's an example of being constructive rather than destructive.
Post
#249951
Topic
2004 DVD crap-o-la
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/249951/action/topic#249951
Time
I can see that.

But I do think you get a fairly similar dynamic from the prequels when you look at it from the perspective that Anakin embraced evil after falling down a slippery slope of good intentions that left him feeling like he couldn't go back.

I mean sure he starts out ESB looking for Luke with the intention of overthrowing the Emperor, but it was only to replace Palpatine as dictator.

He had gone to the dark side to save Padme, and it cost him his very humanity. After she died all he cared about was controlling the galaxy to make it the way he wanted it to be. He became more machine than man, even his thoughts were mechanical and without heart.

So then Luke enters the picture and shows Anakin an example of love and compassion that wakes up that spark that starts to grow inside Vader's helmet until he finally does the right thing at the end of ROTJ.

I personally like it better with the idea that Vader and the Emperor are so evil, they can't trust each other.
Post
#249948
Topic
Lord of the Rings by George Lucas
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/249948/action/topic#249948
Time
Very funny. I recognized quite a few references to actual doccumentary "moments".

The bit about Rick talking about the cost and the schedule, Robin Gurland talking about what's going on behind Hayden's eyes, Rob Colmean talking about adding in the eylines, I loved the way this played out, with Viggo and Lee still being in the picture.

And the bit at the beginning about taking the risky path of upsetting the fans as much as possible!

I couldn't watch it until I got home from work, but it was worth the wait.
Post
#249946
Topic
I've given this a lot of thought, and I've decided this makes no sense. (Qui-Gon and Anakin's ghosts.)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/249946/action/topic#249946
Time
I have always held your version in much higher regard than the other edits. None of which I have a problem with mind you, I figure if editing the movie is going to allow someone to enjoy it more, then more power to them. But yours was a substantial effort with obvious thought and care put into it. Where others just seemed to simulate chapter skips at all the "bad" parts, yours was a substantial re-working.

Wasn't Lucas interested in seeing it himself at one point?
Post
#249930
Topic
"..secret to the future is quantity," Lucas said
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/249930/action/topic#249930
Time
I figure if Lucas does release the O-OT again in better resolution, it will be cleaned up and stabilized, so having this scratchy, slightly jumpy version is sort of a cool little thing in it's own right. It makes me feel like I'm back in the theater watching a well-worn print. That makes this particular release unique enough for me to have in addition to a newly restored print anyway.
Post
#249899
Topic
Favorite Star Wars Movie
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/249899/action/topic#249899
Time
If I were to say ANH was my favorite movie because it was the first time I was transported so completely by a movie, that would disregard how amazing I feel the full 6 film saga turned out in the end.

If I were to say that Empire Strikes back was my favorite because it has the best surprise I've ever experienced in cinema, that would entirely disregard the way ANH set that surprise up as such a shocker.

If I were to say Return of the Jedi is my favorite because it has one of the best showdowns I've ever seen in a movie that would entirely disregard the way the 2 movies preceding it set things up for such a climactic showdown. And now that we have the prequels it would entirely disregard how much more meaningful Anakin's return from the Dark Side is to me now that I have seen where he originally came from to begin with.

If I said TPM was my favorite film because it has my favorite Jedi in action (Qui-Gon) that would entirely disregard his eventual impact on the rest of the saga with the way he came back to show Yoda and Obi-Wan how to become a Force Ghost.

If I said AOTC was my favorite film because I love seeing Yoda put aside his cane and kick ass, it would totally disregard the way the other movies refrained from showing that to make that as special as it was for me.

If I said ROTS was my favorite movie because it was the most emotional experience I have ever had in a theater, it would totally disregard the accumulative narrative I had witnessed up until that point that set me up for such an emotional reaction to how all the events unfolded.

It's just too difficult for me.
Post
#249867
Topic
"..secret to the future is quantity," Lucas said
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/249867/action/topic#249867
Time
I am personally hedging my bets just in case he really doesn't do another O-OT release.

The only reason I got this September release was for the O-OT bonus discs, as I already have the 04 set (of course I passed on the 05 set even though the box art was cool).

I will be getting the box set next year regardless, because I also happen to enjoy the full saga with SE's and have to see how he has tweaked them further.

Edit: Lando's Erection?
Post
#249839
Topic
"..secret to the future is quantity," Lucas said
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/249839/action/topic#249839
Time
Please forgive me, I shouldn't have eaten one of everything at old country buffet today at lunch, and I've become a bit cranky.

Maybe hate is too strong a word, and sure I -do- understand the frustration regarding the lack of anamorphic release for the O-OT.

But he did go out of his way to do the THX version with the warning that it would be the last time to get it. To me that doesn't sound like he's insulting the people who liked those versions just as they were.

And I just think it's a pretty narrow point of view to equate everything Lucas does with a desire for money.

I just think it's pretty extreme not to at the very least aknowledge that he did this september release for us, even if money is another concern.

Sure the guy didn't give it the 5 star treatment, but he did do it.

I just think that the next step in getting him to reconsider doing an anamorphic or even future HD or better releases is to give the man just a pittance of respect for changing his mind at all.
Post
#249832
Topic
"..secret to the future is quantity," Lucas said
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/249832/action/topic#249832
Time
Because if Lucas doesn't release the O-OT he's a jerk, and when he does he's still a jerk, just because it's not the best quality possible.

Lucas wasn't insulting you by making his own movies better in his mind. To him he was giving his own movies the respect and care he felt they deserved, and he spent more time and money doing that than anyone else has so far for their own movies.

And for a lot of us it won't be enough no matter what Lucas does or doesn't do.

Regardless of his detracotrs, Star Wars will be selling well beyond his years and our own.

Once the generation who felt slighted by him pass on, future generations will wonder what the hell all the fuss was about methinks.
Post
#249829
Topic
"..secret to the future is quantity," Lucas said
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/249829/action/topic#249829
Time
Oh believe me he is not hurting himself by any stretch of the imagination.

If you guys can't even give him a pittance of credit for this release (albeit it's not anamorphic) then what incentive does he have to give more of a crap?

If Lucas was just about making money, he wouldn't have held off with the 2004 DVD release as long as he had. If Lucas was just about making money, he wouldn't have originally planned to wait until he was finished with these films before releasing them. If Lucas was just about making money, there would be an episode 7 8 and 9 in the works.

If you guys would just release your hate then maybe you would be able to see that.
Post
#249823
Topic
"..secret to the future is quantity," Lucas said
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/249823/action/topic#249823
Time
Originally posted by: Mielr
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-TonicWhat about the actress who played Beru in ANH? Her voice wasn't dubbed over in the initial theatrical run, and was later.
That's not true- it was dubbed for the 35mm stereo and 70mm prints, I believe. The mono prints had the original voice.
Thanks for the clarification, but it hardly negates my point that one theatrical version had Beru's original voice and then that version hasn't been reproduced since.
Post
#249821
Topic
"..secret to the future is quantity," Lucas said
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/249821/action/topic#249821
Time
Originally posted by: Mike O
Say what you want about his movies, but most of them have done extremely well, which would indicate that not everyone thought they were complete crap. Which does not mean that they are good movies. It doesn't necessarily mean that they are bad ones either, but the fact that something makes money does not automatically indicate quality. Well it means it was quality to more people than most movies can claim.
Originally posted by: Mike O I'd trade any number of hours of new Lucasfilm stuff for one high-quality release of the OOT. You can start holding your breath.... NOW!
Originally posted by: Mike O
His home video releases have -always- set the industry standard for quality. Not anymore. Only for the sake of people who kept asking him to. He didn't want to release it at all.
Originally posted by: Mike O
The only reason he released a non anamorphic bonus feature was because -we- asked him to. No. We asked for a DVD release. Not a bonus material release. And there are standards one expects from DVDs. A lot of people asked him for a laserdisc transfer at the very least.
Originally posted by: Mike O
So all of us here can take the credit for soiling his good name. He fought us for a long time on the idea, but then finally relented. At our request. He relented because he wanted more money, not because of the fans. He didn't need to release the O-OT at all to sell Star Wars DVD's. He didn't want to release it at all, and changed his mind because of pettitions like this. It's not like he just now realized he could make more money by releasing 2 versions of each of his movies. He fought this for a long time.
Originally posted by: Mike O
Yeah well I never heard anyone ask for Anamorphic until we found out it wouldn't be. It certainly wasn't part of the main message contained in this pettition. Well it should have been automatically. That's DVD industry standard. People wanted a DVD release. There are standards for DVD releases. Yeah and sometimes they use a laserdisc transfer for a DVD release. Lucas isn't the first one to do it.
Originally posted by: Mike O
I think most people would agree that it's better to get it non anamorphic than to not get it at all. If I haven't eaten for days, I'll eat moldy spam. That doesn't make it good food. Then you don't have to buy it now do you? I'm sure Lucas won't mind if only the people who think this is good buy it.
Originally posted by: Mike O
And while many of you didn't want a laserdisc transfer, I remember huge threads over at TFN where people were saying that if Lucas doesn't have any quality prints laying around anymore then the least he could do was give us one of the laserdisc transfers. This isn't TFN. Gee really? I hadn't noticed. I'm sorry, I didn't know that the Star Wars fanbase was really only made up of the people who post here.
Originally posted by: Mike O
I know that it's the industry standard, but at the same time, he isn't willing to spend the kind of money it would take to restore one of his weathered prints, so he instead took the best home video master he had on hand to re-create the original movies. He didn't want to re-release the O-OT AT ALL. I see. So the millions of artisans and craftsmen who worked on the films, including two other directors, as well as the millions of fans who have made the entire franchise possible because these versions don't mean squat? Terry Gilliam despises the "Love Conquers All Version" of Brazil and James Cameron prefers the extended version of The Abyss, and they both allowed them to be released. Lucas doesn't want to release the OOT becasue he knows that people prefer it.
And yet he did release it. Just because it's not up to your standards doesn't mean he didn't.Originally posted by: Mike OAlso, when I was talking about "crappy presentation" I wasn't tring to even get into the quality of any given movie in it's own right, merely the crappy presnetation a film based presentation provides. Unless you see it the first time it was unspooled (and usually only theater employees see the first unspooling) it will have dirt, scratches, and image instability.
Not if its restored like it should be.
They don't restore films after each theatrical showing. I'm not talking about a home video release here, I'm talking about film presentation in theaters.Originally posted by: Mike OAgain, I think most of the people who really wanted the O-OT on DVD will agree that this is better than not getting it at all.
So, what, we should just shut up? No. Yes, it's better than nothing, but its not all that good either. The X0 project will probably look better and that being made by fans who evidently love the films far more than Lucas does.
I'm not saying to "shut up" in any way. I'm just saying that equating Lucas donating money to USC and talking about where he sees the future of entertainment doesn't really equate to "Lucas would sell his dead cat for $5". It's sensless negativity like this that makes me wonder why Lucas should give more of a crap about us (people who want an anamorphic transfer of the O-OT) than he already has. Why even worry about Lucas if your resotration project is all you need?Originally posted by: Mike O"Since no one would pay to see anything I make that doesn't have the Star Wars label on it, and I'm not making anymore of those, I'm going to get into TV, where I can make shows with a far smaller budget, but are still just as crappy."
People will buy anyhting with the SW logo, and with T.V. he can put the SW logo on more things.
Has it ever occured to you that the people who buy into the SW label might actually think his productions are worth their money?Originally posted by: Mike OLuca$hFilm wouldn't release anything they didn't want to. Neither would they release anything they weren't damn sure would make money. Luca$hFilm released the OOT on DVD because they knew it would sell well and they will release it many more times for that same reason.
Exactly. If Lucas really didn't want to release this, he wouldn't have. The end. He did it to make money, not please anyone, least of all the fans.
Well have fun holding your breath for that anamorphic release of the O-OT is all I'm saying.Originally posted by: Mike OThe original versions are discarded rough drafts to him at this point, and the only reason he put this out was because everyone seemed to want it so much.
No, he put them out to make money. How many people would have bought the 06 release without the OOT? Not many.
People who only wanted one or two of the movies, and people who didn't get the box sets when those run out of stock. It's not like there will ever be a point where Star Wars on home video -isn't- selling.Originally posted by: Mike OIn the end he did this mainly for people who have soundly rejected anything he's done since ROTJ (some since ESB or even ANH for that matter). I'm sure he doesn't care a whole lot about a group of people who don't seem to give a rat's ass about his opinion of how these movies should be.
He doesn't care about the opinions of anyone anymore. That's the problem.
He cares about other opinions, just not the ridiculously negative ones from a certain portion of his fanbase. And I ask you, why should he give a crap about people most of whom have made it a priority to demonize him every chance they get since he released ROTJ? Do you see some sort of inequity here than I cannot?Originally posted by: Mike OWhat should he buy you flowers and take you out to dinner too?
If he wants. I really don't care. I want the highest quality OOT DVD release possible. Goodbye. The end. After that, I don't care. He can do whatever he wants. More power to him. May he live a long, happy, healthy life.
Well again, have fun holding your breath.Originally posted by: Mike OOriginally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
The people who worked on that film were employed by Lucas to realize his vision for these films. They produced a ton of stuff that never even made it to the original theatrical version, should they feel slighted by that too? What about the actress who played Beru in ANH? Her voice wasn't dubbed over in the initial theatrical run, and was later. What about the people who put together the "man in suit" version of the rancor they never used in the end? What about Luke's friends on Tatooine that now aren't in the movie at all? Is it -ever- okay for Lucas to make an executive creative decision? Or does he lose that right only when you have seen his movie? And Lucas didn't get rid of it, he merely made it better (to him).
They knew that their work would not be included in the first place. The OOT was a complete work. All of the work that they did in the service of Lucas's so-called "vision" was to create the films which were ultimately made. 20 years later, suddenly their work doesn't exist to serve Lucas's ego? He made it better. Great. That doesn't mean that he should deny the existance of the OOT. He doesn't lose the right after I've seen the movie. He "loses the right," so to speak, after the films have been released. Director's Cuts are fine. What is the problem is Lucas's continual insistance that the OOT doesn't exist anmore. If the OOT was not a complete product, why did so many people spend money on it over the years?
If it doesn't exist, then how do you explain this September release? To Lucas the updated versions are his way of making the end result of all those artisian's contributions as good as he can (in his opinion). Should he have left the bad matte lines in from the optical compositing? After all that was the blood and sweat of real aritistic professionals.
Post
#249806
Topic
2004 DVD crap-o-la
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/249806/action/topic#249806
Time
A faithful servant doesn't tell Padme that he can overthrow him and then they could rule the galaxy together.

Anakin always planned on using the Emperor for his own ends and then discarding him, just as the Emperor plans on using his apprentices for his own ends and then discards them.

With Luke entering the picture, Vader had "A New Hope" of being able to finally take Palpatine out of the picture, which is why he gives a similar pitch to Luke (as he had given Padme) on the gantry in ESB. Between ROTS and ESB, Anakin was a shell of his former self, and didn't have the power to destroy the Emperor on his own.

Palpatine also sees Luke as the apprentice he had hoped Vader would have become before he lost all his limbs and needed a respirator to survive.

"How is that possible?" = "Hey I wasn't looking for him already to help take you out, honest!"

"Yesss. he would be a great asset" = "As soon as I convert Luke, you're ass is grass Vader"
Post
#249799
Topic
"..secret to the future is quantity," Lucas said
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/249799/action/topic#249799
Time
The people who worked on that film were employed by Lucas to realize his vision for these films. They produced a ton of stuff that never even made it to the original theatrical version, should they feel slighted by that too?

What about the actress who played Beru in ANH? Her voice wasn't dubbed over in the initial theatrical run, and was later.

What about the people who put together the "man in suit" version of the rancor they never used in the end?

What about Luke's friends on Tatooine that now aren't in the movie at all?

Is it -ever- okay for Lucas to make an executive creative decision? Or does he lose that right only when you have seen his movie?

And Lucas didn't get rid of it, he merely made it better (to him).
Post
#249782
Topic
"..secret to the future is quantity," Lucas said
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/249782/action/topic#249782
Time
I'm not saying it would break Lucas to do it, it's just he doesn't want to. The original versions are discarded rough drafts to him at this point, and the only reason he put this out was because everyone seemed to want it so much.

In the end he did this mainly for people who have soundly rejected anything he's done since ROTJ (some since ESB or even ANH for that matter). I'm sure he doesn't care a whole lot about a group of people who don't seem to give a rat's ass about his opinion of how these movies should be.

What should he buy you flowers and take you out to dinner too?

I wouldn't hold my breath.
Post
#249753
Topic
"..secret to the future is quantity," Lucas said
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/249753/action/topic#249753
Time
I personally don't see how maintaining Star Wars as a brand disqualifies the prequels as "art".

If that's the case, it also disqualifies ESB and ROTJ along with it.

Also, he has always been about making filmaking more affordable, he has been talking about the demise of the big budget motion picture for a long time now. He spent most of his money not just making films to turn a profit but to literally push the ablilites of the industry forward.

He has always been about contributing back to his own industry, and everyone else in Hollywood has benefitted from that investment.

Now it's easier than ever for someone to make a film on their own without corporate sponsorship.

That's what he's talking about is taking the "big money" out of film making and return it's focus to artistic intent.
Post
#249751
Topic
"..secret to the future is quantity," Lucas said
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/249751/action/topic#249751
Time
I know that it's the industry standard, but at the same time, he isn't willing to spend the kind of money it would take to restore one of his weathered prints, so he instead took the best home video master he had on hand to re-create the original movies. He didn't want to re-release the O-OT AT ALL.

And while many of you didn't want a laserdisc transfer, I remember huge threads over at TFN where people were saying that if Lucas doesn't have any quality prints laying around anymore then the least he could do was give us one of the laserdisc transfers.

Again, I think most of the people who really wanted the O-OT on DVD will agree that this is better than not getting it at all.

Sure it's not the best it could be, but it's better than any previous home video release of the O-OT, including the laserdisc this master was created for in the first place.

Also, when I was talking about "crappy presentation" I wasn't tring to even get into the quality of any given movie in it's own right, merely the crappy presnetation a film based presentation provides. Unless you see it the first time it was unspooled (and usually only theater employees see the first unspooling) it will have dirt, scratches, and image instability.