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Go-Mer-Tonic

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Join date
13-Sep-2006
Last activity
28-Mar-2007
Posts
928

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Post
#254125
Topic
Star Wars most inconsistent plot point, in my opinion: Star Wars Lethal Alliance game
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/254125/action/topic#254125
Time
Tiptup, when it comes to EU, I figure take what you want and leave the rest. Just because Vader is explained to have given Chewie 3-PO's parts, doesn't mean that's how we need to look at it. From what I recall, that was something out of an infinities storyline, I'm not sure why they would act like it's an official part of canon.


Post
#254123
Topic
George Lucas interview - 29th October 1979
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/254123/action/topic#254123
Time
I think this is one area where Lucas is the most misunderstood. I don't think he denies ever talking about doing 9 films, just that he only ever got around to fleshing out 6.

From what I understand any of the things he had been talking about with regards to doing a third trilogy had to do with a newly teamed up Luke and Anakin overthrowing the Emperor. As you can see, Lucas just condensed the "third trilogy" into a 5 minute change of heart sequence in ROTJ.

So even if he was thinking about making it 9 films, the story is pretty much over in ROTJ.
Post
#254120
Topic
Jedi as ninja
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/254120/action/topic#254120
Time
I thought the detail was intricate and well rendered for a peice of science fiction fantasy. I don't think anything Lucas did with these films was primarily motivated by a desire to show off his new effects. He has employed cutting edge, freshly invented SFX techniques since the very beginning. It seems pretty obvious to me that a lot of thought was put into it, even if you refuse to believe it.

Wow, Wikipidia has a decent writeup about it from the same visual dictionary stuff I was looking at here.
Post
#254113
Topic
Jedi as ninja
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/254113/action/topic#254113
Time
I thought the amount of thought that went into the Jedi Order for the prequels was astounding. Like the different levels of lightsaber fighting, the differences between the different Jedi's styles and what that says about them as people.

I think the prequel Jedi were portrayed differently because they were different. They had grown too sure of themselves, and lost track of their peaceful alternatives when they were re-purposed as generals for war. That's why Yoda makes his point about how "Wars not make one great" and Obi-Wan makes his point about alternatives to fighting. They had been down that road and knew what they were talking about.
Post
#254077
Topic
Star Wars most inconsistent plot point, in my opinion: Star Wars Lethal Alliance game
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/254077/action/topic#254077
Time
I am also for the school of "less is more" sometimes. Especially with minor details like these. I mean once we see Vader on his bridge, it's pretty clear that's where he went.

But at the same time, I can see how some people get lost in location changes like that. Lucas goes to great lengths to visually separate the locations so that a viewer can instantly know where they are at any given moment, but in that one part, it's like Vader is on the gantry in the middle of cloud city, then suddenly he's on the bridge of his Star Destroyer?

I agree the edit does sort of break up the pacing that was there originally. Maybe it can be smoothed out for the box set next year.
Post
#254048
Topic
McCallum on Jar Jar & Kids before TPM came out
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/254048/action/topic#254048
Time
When were they looking at pics of a younger Shaw?

One thing I noticed when Lucas was picking Jake is how Lucas was smiling while he watched Jake's performance.

I have noticed that a lot of Jake' mannerisms as a young Anakin seem to almost mirror the way Lucas reacts to things in his inteviews.

Anyway, trying to make Anakin look like a younger version of Shaw wouldn't have made Shaw look more like a younger version of Shaw. If Lucas' point was to make Anakin appear as he did before he became Darth Vader, then no matter what they did Shaw would have been too old.
Post
#254037
Topic
Star Wars most inconsistent plot point, in my opinion: Star Wars Lethal Alliance game
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/254037/action/topic#254037
Time
Originally posted by: Darth_Evil
It's something I never thought about. In fact, you'd have to think about it to find there's anything to think about it all, which is why I don't care about little things like that.
So for the classic trilogy it's not worth even thinking about stuff like this, but when it comes to the prequels, nothing can be left unquestioned?


Post
#253865
Topic
Star Wars most inconsistent plot point, in my opinion: Star Wars Lethal Alliance game
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253865/action/topic#253865
Time
It's not a pre-tense. I'ts just to me artistic taste is a point of view, not a universal truth.

I do have a strong preference towards Lucas' taste for these movies. I also understand that it's not going to be for everyone. While I hope to improve people's opinion of what Lucas did, I don't expect to be able to mind trick anyone into it. I'm no Jedi.

I think that there is something admirable about the creativity it takes to disagree with Lucas' artistic choices. I really do respect that about the people who would have done things differently.

Maybe it isn't so much "how dare Lucas contradict what I had assumed" but more of, "I really prefer the way I was looking at it before".

In the end, as much as Obi-Wan's "truths depend greatly on our own point of view" was a ham-fisted way to smooth out Lucas' decision to make Vader Luke's father, it taught me a lot about how much of a difference a perspective can make.
Post
#253861
Topic
McCallum on Jar Jar & Kids before TPM came out
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253861/action/topic#253861
Time
I wonder why that same dynamic didn't help Blues Brothers 2000 at the box office.

Sure I will grant you opening week, even opening month those people went to see TPM on the merit of the classic trilogy.

But when it's still in dollar theaters when they re-release it for the Christmas holiday, you have to start to suspect that people were going back again and again because they actually liked -that- movie too.

It is patently ridiculous to state that Lucas did not have a crew of people working with him on the prequels. I don't even understand how you could say it. Sure it's not the same crew he had since the beginning, but there -was- a crew. It wasn't just "Lucas, some blue screens, crappy actors and some computers."

People -DID- get their point across to Lucas that they didn't like the way Jar-Jar was being done. Lucas simply didn't agree with them. Just as he didn't agree with Kurtz when he thought they shouldn't make Vader Luke's father.
Post
#253858
Topic
McCallum on Jar Jar & Kids before TPM came out
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253858/action/topic#253858
Time
Everyone was telling Lucas he was crazy while he was making ANH. The cast thought it was a crazy idea, the crew thought it was crazy. Even if some of the studios told him it could make money they still told him "no" which obviously means they didn't expect it to make enough money to do it.

Right here we have proof that McCallum was saying he didn't think Jar-Jar would work and he questioned Lucas about his use of the goofy Gungan, but George explained to him that his point was to be annoying to adults.

Rob Coleman did an interview where he said he "begged" Lucas to allow him to tone down the Gugnan's antics, but Lucas refused.

It's not that nobody questions him, it's just in the end, Lucas gets what Lucas wants. Which with the exception of portions of ANH has always been the case.

I don't mean to take anything away from Kurtz's obvious contribution to these films, but he was against Lucas making Vader Luke’s' father. I know some here would agree with him, but does anyone refute that most people loved the "I am your father" moment?

So this idea that Lucas should listen to everyone else when they are telling him his ideas are crazy is crazy in and of itself. For better or worse Lucas is the artist and therefore he gets to make the final decision. He can't just let everyone around him tell him how the movie should turn out, he has to keep a consistent vision for it, otherwise, you have too many chefs spoiling the stew.

Lucas has been enjoying absolute power since ESB. That didn't stop him from deciding Kershner and Harrison were right about the "I know" line. That didn't stop him from deciding the original cut of Empire worked better than the cut he tried to make. In the end Lucas does listen to others, but only when he agrees with them.

Yes, he did purposely design a character that less tolerant people would hate with a passion. It's an exercise in tolerance for the audience, and kids that learn how to tolerate Jar-Jar will in all likelihood be cooler to their fellow man as they get older because they won't be so quick to hate things they don't understand or find annoying right away. A lot of them will have learned Lucas' lesson about compassion. Just as a lot of us learned not to be so quick to anger from the originals.

The reason I say the people who didn't agree with him didn't matter is because despite critics and -some- fans crucifying Lucas and TPM over Jar-Jar, it went on to claim 2nd highest worldwide box office gross (at the time). So even with that ridiculous amount of hate, no matter how hard the critics tried to kill TPM at the box office (remember the ones that broke their word to wait until opening day to publish their reviews?), they couldn't do it. TPM not only survived, but it was the 2nd highest success at the box office up until that point.

I know a lot of you think Lucas isn't the same guy he used to be, but I say he's still a whole lot closer than any of us are.
Post
#253854
Topic
Star Wars most inconsistent plot point, in my opinion: Star Wars Lethal Alliance game
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253854/action/topic#253854
Time
I'm not going to rail anyone for a matter of artistic preference. While Han and Leia were names I hadn't heard until SW, Luke is a fairly common name. Sometimes people just don't want new stuff. I mean some of us didn't even want new stuff after ANH. I think it just comes down to things we assume outside of the box.

Star Wars movies are built in such a way as to inspire this kind of assumption and creativity in the viewer, and because we are all free to be as creative as we need to be to make sense of some of the things that aren't entirely spelled out in the films themselves, there is a lot of that which will be contradicted as Lucas adds more to "what's what" in the Star Wars universe. Every time he nails something down that contradicts something we assumed, there will be one of two reactions. 1) So I was wrong about that. Interesting. or 2) How dare Lucas not remain consistent to what I had imagined.

Neither reaction is "wrong" or anythying. I just usually choose the former because I can't control what Lucas does, so I made a decision early on to roll along with what he was doing.

Personally I find it more interesting when Lucas surprises me with new things I hadn't considered before.

Post
#253852
Topic
McCallum on Jar Jar & Kids before TPM came out
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253852/action/topic#253852
Time
I have just seen a lot of people (not here really) accuse McCallum of being a mindless yes man. Or say that there is nobody there to question Lucas' artistic choices like Kurtz did.

I have also seen people assume Lucas thought everyone would love Jar-Jar, but is crazy and out of touch with what audiences want.

Lucas knew exactly what he was doing, and in the end the people who didn't agree with him didn't matter.

Just like the people who didn't agree that the original Star Wars would make any money didn't matter.

I think at some point we need to examine the possibility that Lucas might actually know a little more about what makes a successful movie than we do.