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Go-Mer-Tonic

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Join date
13-Sep-2006
Last activity
28-Mar-2007
Posts
928

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Post
#255847
Topic
Opinion Poll on Go-Mer-Tonic
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/255847/action/topic#255847
Time
So let me get this straight, you guys are really sick of seeing my posts, and are trying to get rid of me at -this- site, yet you want me to go post on another forum you frequent because you are convinced they will rip me a new one?

I signed up there last week when you guys invited me. I haven't even made one post yet, and you are telling me that they already have ready made witch trial threads (specifically about me) that I could just slip right into?

You guys are incredible. It's obvious that I am not the instigator here. It's not even a theory at this point, you guys readily admit to your tactics.
Post
#255844
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/255844/action/topic#255844
Time
Tiptup, I can see what you are saying, but my point is, can't you assume Lucas intends it in the way you prefer until he actually says that's not the case?

I'm just for giving it the benefit of the doubt. I don't think Lucas set out to nail things about the Force down with this further detail, merely add more food for thought. Like all of the great mysteries of life, such as how life got started in the first place, it's something that we can't really pin down and prove.

I think it makes sense that in a society like the Old Republic, they would be aware of things like Midichlorians in the same way we here on Earth are aware of Mitochondria. They happened to notice that most Force users tended to have a higher midicount, and the practice of using midi-counts to pre-screen near infant Jedi Hopefuls is born. To me this makes plenty of sense, and doesn't change anything about how the Force was in the classic trilogy. It's really just our perception of it that has changed due to getting more peices of the puzzle.

People here on Earth theorize that Mitochondria is the source of all complex life. Some people think that makes them "god". Obviously none of it can be "proven" there's just theories and counter theories held by different people.

I think if we take just what is given to us in the films, we can figure out what we think the "real deal" is, and I think that's what Lucas intends. He said once that answering the mysteries of life isn't as important as questioning them.
Post
#255842
Topic
Opinion Poll on Go-Mer-Tonic
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/255842/action/topic#255842
Time
I don't recognize the lines in the sand that self proclaimed gushers and bashers have created, therefore I don't feel bound by their ridiculous boundaries.

I just happen to love Star Wars, and don't have any problem with people who don't love as much of it as I do.

I think the reason a lot of the more mature "regulars" have been keeping away probably has much more to do with the fact that -some- of you guys have stopped talking about Star Wars and have just started viciously attacking me personally as a matter of course, and they don't want to be associated with such indefensible and childish behavior.

You guys are derailing posts that were about Star Wars into topics questioning my sexual desires for Lucas. You guys start this off topic thread to personally attack me, even after Jay made a whole thread (still at the top) about how anyone caught making a personal attack would be gone.

It's my accusors who have repeatedly broken the rules and who really -should- be banned.

That said, I hope they aren't.
Post
#255688
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/255688/action/topic#255688
Time
Would it be considered a mutation to have more mitochondria than average? I hadn't considered that.

I also like the idea about midichlorians simply being a side effect of being Force sensitvie.

I think Lucas tried to leave it fairly vague. I mean he presents what the Jedi and more specifically what Qui-Gon believes, but there are a lot of theories that can be drawn from the co-relation between Midichlorian count and force sensitivity.

Was the Jedi Order even right about their theories?
Post
#255660
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/255660/action/topic#255660
Time
See the part of your case I am having the most trouble with is your insistance on calling force sensitives "mutations".

All life has midichlorians. It's just that they noticed a higher concentration of midichlorians in particularly force sensitive beings, which is why the Jedi have adopted midichlorian testing as a way to pick out Jedi hopefuls before they are old enough to demonstrate pronounced force ability.

The fact that they are based on Mitochondria (according to Lucas himself) tells me that he's not considering force sensitivity a mutation, just that some beings have a stronger innate ability with the Force.

Before the Midichlorians, there was a stronger case for force sensitivity being a mutation, because for whatever reason, the Force ran strong only in certain family lines, or at least that was strongly implied by the end of the classic trilogy.

I think the Midichlorian concept clarifies that all beings can tap into the Force to verying degrees based on both their midi-count, and their discipline. Someone like Han for example could potentially use the Force if he took it seriously and leanred the art and put a lot of effort into perfecting his skill.
Post
#255596
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/255596/action/topic#255596
Time
Even what he's saying could just be a manner of speaking. The meaning is still that the "Will of the Force" is being communicated through the Midichlorians. I don't think he really sees them as being sentient middlemen that re-explain what the Force is trying to say.

And as far as nothing contradicting what he's saying, he believes the Midichlorians are responsible for creating Anakin, and in ROTS, Palpatine says that the Sith had figured out how to manipulate the Midichlorians to create life. The implication being that it's possible that he or his former master has caused Anakin to be (a point that Palpatine actually brought up to Anakin in one of the script revisions). So right there is some ambiguity that directly contradicts Qui-Gon's take on things.
Post
#255555
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/255555/action/topic#255555
Time
Well the idea that the Midichlorians are "sentient" is an opinion presented by Qui-Gon Jinn, the rogue Jedi who always seems to be disagreeing with the majority of the Jedi Council. When Qui-Gon talks to Yoda about how he thinks Anakin could be the chosen one, Yoda responds with something to the effect of "revealed your opinion is". I think it's quite possible that while Qui-Gon pictures the Midichlorians in little hats playing poker, the rest of the council and possibly a majority of the Jedi Order sees them as merely the antenna through which all living things can tune into the Force.

Sure there's nothing to prove this theory, but there's nothing to disprove it either.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to how you prefer to look at it. If you want to see the Midichlorian concept as a limiter, you can do that, I just don't undertsand why you would want to when you obviousy would prefer it wasn't a limiter.
Post
#255550
Topic
Opinion Poll on Go-Mer-Tonic
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/255550/action/topic#255550
Time
I apologise for being so broad with my comments, Tiptup. It really is only a few people who I feel are being unreasonable. Certainly you are one of the many people here who, while strongly disagreeing with me, manage to conduct debate in a civilized fashion. I also realize that sometimes my tit for tat approach to some arguments can become annoying, I do try to consciously keep from doing that most of the time. But in the threads where I don't succeed, I don't see how my repeated arguments are any more reppetitious than the others who present an opposite position.

I do feel fairly alone here in my opinions, which is why I end up being the only one to defend my stance a lot of the time. There might be 3-4 people presenting an argument against mine, so yeah you might see me posting 3-4 times more than any one of my opponents. I feel that making counterpoints back and forth is fair play in a debate, and it always takes more than just me to tango.

I know it may seem that my stance is unwavering and impossible to pursuade, but since I have come here there have been a few things that have been explained to me that I did not know before. Such as the fact that there -are- actually prints Lucas could clean up to make a better O-OT transfer. Up until I came here, I was under the impression that Lucas' saying there was no way he could do it was all there was to the story. Thanks to Zombie, who tried explaining this stuff to me before on the ban happy TFN, I was able to straigten out my perception on that point, and that has made me sympathise with the cause here even more.

Also in talking to you Tiptup, I was able to broaden my perception of why a lot of you don't like the new Emperor scene in ESB. I thought it was just because of the dialoge, and had never even pondered the possiblity that someone just prefer the way the Emperor was originally in ESB over the Ian McDiarmid. I may personally prefer McDiarmid, but I do appreciate where you are coming from better now, where at first I thought it was a pretty unreasonable stance to take.

The people who want me just gone from here on the other hand have made it quite clear that they have no intention of changing their mind at all. As a very stubborn person myself, I respect that. Hell I don't even mind the "gay for Lucas" jokes. I mean really I am an extreme example of a Lucas supporter, and appreciate the way you guys must see me.

Also I am entirely for you guys voicing your disatisfaction. I just mean to counterbalance that to keep our stance as reasonable as possible.

You guys talk about how much Lucas sucks and lies and is motivated by money, and I'll say hey wait a minute, is that really fair? And then you guys can say "Yes it is fair because of this and this and this."

I think that's going to be more productive than just everyone agreeing that Lucas sucks.

The real problem here is some people not only don't want to debate these things, they want to make sure nobody else is debating it either.

I just don't see the point of coming to a forum if not to open yourself up to the possiblity of growth. I challenge the "Lucas Sucks" standpoint, and you guys challenge that with "no really, Lucas sucks".

I would rather say I had considered the arguments against him than to just go around like a blind Lucas fanatic.
Post
#255427
Topic
Opinion Poll on Go-Mer-Tonic
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/255427/action/topic#255427
Time
Hitting Lucas for not putting the O-OT out on Anamorphic is one thing, hitting him for "milking the fanbase" or "insulting O-OT fans" with this release isn't entirely reasonable. He may not have pulled out all the stops, but it was more than he was willing to do the year before. To me this is less insulting than not putting it on DVD at all.

I'm not suggesting you stop expressing your disatisfaction, I just think you guys could try to be more diplomatic about it is all.

You guys don't have to either. I don't expect you to do it just because I think it would be a good idea.

I just think it's worth working towards.