If one is to add that subplot, maybe Vader would the one to kill Boba Fett, force choking him or perhaps even using the force to cave his helmet into his head, crushing his skull.
The AOTC duels feel really awkward and stilted. It’s not as bad as Palpatine vs. Mace Windu, but it’s clear they’re trying to use a stunt double for Christopher Lee as little as possible, resulting in all of these weird janky cuts, and the way they move when dueling feels like they got a stick up their ass.
Bit of a hot take, I’ve never cared for Duel of the Fates (the fight itself not the music). It’s way too overstimulating for my ADHD ass, half the time I can’t follow what’s going on. The character work is too barebones for me to care.
My favorite duels are Luke Skywalker vs. Darth Vader from ESB and ROTJ, a great balance between ferocious but not batshit insane choreography with great character work.
I enjoy the two final duels in ROTS to a degree, but at the same time am miffed at how the Anakin vs. Obi-Wan duel, among may other prequel elements, serves to retroactively make OT Vader look weak when he was intended to be a powerful masterful warrior (they had him be the only one to wield a saber with one hand for a reason). I also think they need to be toned down too.
Come to think of it, in this original movie, was there anything that implied a more specific age for Luke and Leia? They can’t be any older then their early 20s but were they always 19?
You can give me suggestions. I am not sure yet.
If you’re gonna put the Death Star near a planet, I’d recommend something like Coruscant or Geonosis. It’d be cool if it was a rather alien planet and not too Earth-like.
Some ideas relating to the timeline to make it match the OT’s implications a bit more.
TPM takes place years earlier then it does in canon (around 5-10). This has a ripple effect on AOTC, though ROTS has to stay the same.
Gradually we see the Jedi’s numbers decreasing. Empty seats on the council, less of them walking around. Perhaps by ROTS, there’s only a quarter of the council left. Try to make a point of the Jedi getting gradually “kicked out” of the government.
The Clone Wars lasts longer. Anakin becomes Vader in his late 20s rather then early 20s.
Ok and what are the changes besides logos and a couple you have listed for ANH?
I actually think that Ep 2&3 Obi-Wan and Padme are good characters, with the only real blemishes being some of their interactions (or lack thereof) with Anakin, which is due to poor writing and plotting. On paper and in certain scenes, I can see how Anakin and Padme are actually compatible (when you don’t have him admit to killing Tusken kids). But in TPM, Obi-Wan is sidelined and besides a couple one liners and exposition is kinda a prick, and Padme acts like she overdosed on Xanax 90% of the time. I think that’s partially why I find TPM the most dull.
Yeah, Lucas’ spin on Vader even works for his weird midiclorian fixation. It’s like “Well he lost his arms and legs,so there’s not enough midiclorians running through his body now…so he’s less powerful”. Which isn’t great at all.
It actually doesn’t make sense because according to TPM sensitivity is determined by how much you have per cell. Every cell that remains is still just as connected to the force. By the logic to spite Vader, Yoda should be the least powerful Jedi on the Council.
This looks really cool, I’d love to have it.
“He’s more machine now than man, twisted and evil” from Ben is kind of where I’m getting the OT’s thematic vilification of prosthetics. It’s both about the inflicted trauma and the corruption of nature via technology. I don’t think it’s out and out ableist in the same way - because it does make Vader more scary in the OT - but I guess an unfortunate unintended message is that disabled people are unnatural or evil. Which isn’t better lol
Yeah you’re right. Personally, I prefer to interpret the line as more symbolic: Darth Vader sold his soul and became a cold-hearted, almost machine-like man. But I understand it’s not the intent.
I don’t have a problem with Vader being a cyborg being used to make him scarier, because he’s a villain, he defines his suit rather then it defining him. He chooses to look scary and be evil. Luke’s cybernetic hand allows him to see that he’s inflicting the same trauma and chooses to not use it for evil, and there aren’t sinister undertones when he’s first fitted with it. Lobot isn’t necessarily slighted.
Not necessarily in line with Lucas’ intent, but I stopped looking at the movies the same way Lucas does a long time ago (and honestly never really did, as I realized the more I read his quotes). It helps that he can’t ever stick to a narrative and the other directors conflicted with him sometimes. Fan interpretation conflicting with the intent of the director happens quite often (see Ridley Scott’s Alien prequels). Part of the beauty of film is interpretation, and I’ll always love the OT as I interpret them.
But there isn’t any way to spin, “He’ll never be as good at what he does as he could because he’s a cyborg” in a way that isn’t negative framing of prosthetics.
I’m curious as to what Vader’s voice is gonna sound like in the HD version. The original, the SE one more in-line with ESB and ROTJ, a new modified version of one of those two?
Lucas spent too much time on the wrong things. There was no reason to dedicate so much screentime to Qui-Gon, 9 y/o Anakin, Anakin’s mom, the Trade Federation, Jango Fett, the clones origin, assassination plot and Anidala romance being as drawn out as possible, the amount of battles that are just experimenting/showcasing with the new CG (TPM did not need 4 fucking battles). Too many characters (esp having a new villain for every movie), subplots, random world expansion, they’re underdeveloped because the scripts are crammed, unlike the originals which have more simplistic plots and thus have time to fully flesh out their ideas and focus on the characters, the meat of the story. You can rewrite the prequels with similar overall story but simpler plots. The only way to actually make good movies with every element from the prequel screenplays is to make it a TV show.
How about just having Obi-Wan find Anakin? No point where Owen and Anakin actually have a brotherly relationship and have contrasting ideas? A slower turn to the dark side? More screentime with Anakin and Obi-Wan as friends? Seeing Darth Vader actually hunt down and kill Jedi?
most positive depiction of cybernetics in the franchise
I don’t think the OT is negative about cybernetics on it’s own. As I edited into my initial post, Luke’s robot hand isn’t treated as sinister. When he puts it on it’s playing jovial music. In ROTJ it’s used as a symbol that he’s repeating the trauma inflicted upon him by Vader. It’s not necessarily the hand itself but the context paired with costuming symbolism.
In the OT, Vader being a cyborg is used to make him more imposing, not less. Vader is such a force to be reckoned with because not only is he powerful in the Force but because of his cybernetics he can do things like lift a grown man off the ground with one hand. It doesn’t explicitly neuter him, and is used to make him a greater villain, not lesser. Which is why I say Canon Vader is more like OT Vader in spirit.
Also, Lobot is a cyborg. Basically, cybernetics aren’t inherently bad, it’s about who’s using them, and they aren’t a weakness.
But in the prequels, it straight up has ableist undertones. Both Grievous’ cowardly nature and the retcons he does to Vader where he’s weaker because he’s a cyborg are both in the service of “prosthetics bad”. And there’s no characters framed as completely good that are cyborgs. Maybe Lucas had the same opinion when making both, but it doesn’t surface in the OT in an inherently negative light.
I recently kinda realized the way Lucas frames cybernetic prosthetics as inherently sinister and lesser during the prequel era has ableist undertones whether intentional or not. Vader’s suit specifically is a great iconic of evil, it’s the suit of a villain and it looks scary. But simply being a cyborg should not be treated with such scorn as Lucas does.
His explanation for Vader losing power just because he’s a cyborg isn’t even consistent with HIS OWN exposition in both trilogies. Midichlorians are measured per cell, and Yoda in ESB literally says the Force even flows and binds us to rocks and Luke’s ship, so cybernetics and limb removal wouldn’t neuter jack shit. Mf literally created plot holes just to neuter Vader and make a point about how its evil to have prosthetics I guess.
In the OT, Luke gets a prosthetic hand and its not treated with scorn. It’s used in ROTJ to show how Luke is becoming like his father because he’s repeating the trauma Vader inflicted upon him, and that’s the extent.
This is partially why I prefer current Canon Darth Vader. He gets to be powerful and badass with the suit in the expanded material without any indication that it hampered him (because there’s still awesome EU Vader content, but it still always carries those undertones). In the Lords of the Sith novel it’s even explained that the isolation it brought allowed him to focus on his connection to the Force and therefore make it even stronger. It’s not telling me it would’ve been cooler for him to look like Christensen the whole time instead of the most iconic villain design of all-time.
It feels more true to how he’s presented in the OT. At no point are we supposed to see him as lesser just because he’s a cyborg. In fact, we’re supposed to see him as scarier because of it. It’s literally what makes him Vader. The fact that I see some prequel fans think it would be better for him to not have the suit because then he’d “be at his full potential” (holy shit, how do people not notice how blatantly ableist that is?) hurts my soul.
Yeah, comparing screenshots, Coruscant in TPM looks more McQuarrie and OT-esqe then the other two, comparing it to his concept art for Had Abbadon. Not perfect (Had Abbadon looks a bit more ancient, more in line with the OT aesthetic) but I can definitely see it.
As films in isolation I really wish they went for a more matte painting aesthetic. I know doing so would have a ripple effect on film history for the worst, but just judging the films, I miss the matte paintings of the OT and would take them over the digital backgrounds any day of the week.
If Lucas really wanted to tout his 6 film saga as meshing perfectly together (it doesn’t), at least attempt to make it not look like it was made decades later.
Is this a matte painting in The Phantom Menace?
Honestly I’m starting to think Coruscant in TPM looks better then in the other two.
Anyway my opinion on this is I don’t care. If something comes that I think is amazing I’ll love it. But I’m satisfied with the Original Trilogy, Darth Vader Canon comics (especially Soule’s 2017 run), and any other expanded material I find myself liking (I want to get into more books and comics; not to use as plugs for the movies, but to appreciate on their own right).
I can’t even really say I want them to make a Darth Vader show or something, because the Kenobi show showed me they don’t even understand Vader as established in the Canon comics (which I find to mesh really well with the OT). I trust my broke college ass to achieve my dream to adapt my favorite arc from the comics into a fan-film at a sluggish pace more then I trust the people who make these shows.
Yeah, that is exactly how most Prequel fans defend this.
To be fair, again, he thinks they’re bad movies, he just enjoys them. He tears into a lot of the movie quite a bit. But perhaps some of the overly charitable defenses are coming from his subjective enjoyment and familiarity with the old EU.
Or they say “it doesn’t matter, it’s just background details”. Except, it’s not background details. It’s actually like… the entire plot. Plinkett emphasizes this at one point, saying something like (paraphrasing) “the Trade Federation invading Naboo is the entire plot of the movie so it’s important to understand what everyone’s motivation is and why they’re doing it.” I recall countless debates about this on online forums in the “Dark Age” pre-social media era of the Internet.
The Phantom Menace portrays the Trade Federation as the bad guys, and shows us Trade Federation armies marching through Naboo and bossing people around. We know they’re the bad guys, and the entire movie revolves around defeating them and freeing Naboo. But it’s hilarious how nobody can provide a straight answer to the question “WHY are they even invading Naboo at all?” Possible Prequel-defense answers include:
- “Because taxes!”
- “Because Palpatine told them to! Also taxes!”
- “OMFG can’t you read?? it’s all in the opening crawl!”
- “Here’s my fan-fiction 10,000 word essay explaining Palpatine’s plan OMG it’s so obvious”
- “It’s so obvious this is all explained in 5 EU novels you’ll never read”
- “LMFAO OMG you’re so stupid this movie is for kids I understood it when I was 10”, etc.
This I definitely agree with. First time I was watching I didn’t really understand anything. “Why is the Trade company being taxed to trade? What’s a trade route in space, doesn’t everybody just fly around? It’s space, there’s no traffic? This trade company has an army? What the fuck? And why this planet?”
And yeah the gaslighting technique where come up with so much with no direct reference from the movie but then go “It’s so obvious!” is really annoying. I’m not immune necessarily, maybe you could say the same with my defenses for Luke’s plan in ROTJ, but at least for that everything I say is based on direct lines from the movie.
I am going to make changes mostly to the vfx but I can change some of the canon by example adding a StarWars planet near the Death Star etc.
A what planet?
I genuinely don’t believe Lucas intended TPM to be viewed first and personally think that’s an incorrect viewing order for first time viewers (I prefer doing chronological rewatches).
He literally said it’s meant to be watched 1-6 on camera (Chosen One featurette).
I agree that first time viewers need to watch the original trilogy first. That’s not what’s up for debate.
Yeah I agree, strange since he still agrees it’s a bad movie.
He went on like a 10 minute tangent about how determinism ruins Star Wars when it’s very simple: it’s soft-determinism. As Lucas says, “We all have a destiny, if we choose to follow it.” The Force test’s people’s characters and their choices determine their fate. Like how Luke fulfilled his destiny while Anakin/Vader didn’t until 23 years later. The Force has a will but is not omnipotent. It’s like a river. Also, it was introduced in the OT.
And in the same video he says TPM should be judged in the context of having seen the OT first, but then also later admits that Lucas wanted this to be the first movie. It should be judged as the latter, which is where the movie becomes even worse, because it’s a bad introduction to Star Wars.
That side of the fandom has shrunken a lot over the past ten years.
Unfortunately it’s shrunken so much that people can’t seem to separate the originals from the prequels and a lot of the actual subtext in the originals themselves are lost on them due to being retconned (I used to be one of those!). So you could be talking about the same movie but not actually. Which is a shame because the originals separate from the prequels are better.
Something that’s insane to me is that Lucas when making the Prequels’ attitude towards Darth Vader. He spends the entire trilogy neutering the hell out of him, telling us he was a brat and that his iconic badass suit was actually hampering him (which doesn’t make any sense with how he established the Force to work), and even making him pathetically whine “Nooo!” like a cartoon. He doesn’t do this to any other villain. But at the same time, he gave into how much of a sensation Vader is by plastering him all over the advertising and making the entire saga surround him. It’s like he wanted to have his cake and eat it too. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a creator have such a contradictory mindset about a character.
First attempt of the new opera scene: https://youtu.be/A_h13JYRSBk
New Palpatine lines done by Ryan Golden
Palpatine doesn’t criticize the Jedi by saying they don’t trust democracy. It’s subtle but the less he makes himself look like a hypocrite in his early attempts at manipulation, the more believable Anakin’s turn is. Palpatine and Anakin’s almost unspoken opinion is that a dictatorship is better, so there’s no need to pretend in their private conversations.
Anakin is quicker to dispel Palpatine’s claims about the Jedi. This is also the only time Palpatine tries to sow doubts of the Jedi in Anakin. As said in my cut list, he ditches that and goes straight to Anakin’s desire for power over death. This exchange now serves to outright prove that Anakin/Vader has no illusions about the Jedi and Sith’s morality.
New Palpatine lines have been implemented so he says Plagueis was able to keep himself and his apprentice from dying rather then “the ones he cared about”, and that Plagueis was killed by his apprentice in his sleep before he could heal himself (to explain why he couldn’t resurrect himself; the idea was that the wound was just too quick and severe for him to have used the power quick enough).
Used Anakin looks of curiosity to smooth over the line delivery and also make his intrigue clear.
This is just a first draft. I’m aware that the change is a little jarring for now.
First attempt at new pre-duel Mustafar scene: https://youtu.be/KV4CaKMZ8I8
Vader isn’t pinning any blame on the Jedi or Obi-Wan. He’s cold about his actions and mad Padme found out (because earlier he lied).
He doesn’t go on a diatribe about how “his new Empire” has created “peace, justice…” to attempt to justify his actions (which would be fine if it was Padme, but it’s clear he’s saying it to himself, which isn’t Vader).
Lots of cheesy lines gone.
I think I’ve done a good job making this feel more like Vader, though I know some of the musical transitions are rough.
Also updated changelist on first page.
