G&G-Fan

If a Vader movie directed by anyone was made it’d probably be one of the rare occasions that I watch a movie more then once in the theater. Vader is my favorite character and means a lot to me personally. I’d be soooooo hyped for a movie about him.

Have him duel Jedi Masters. Delve into his psyche, his feelings after losing Padme and his conflicting feelings for his master, his abusive father figure. Have him fight Maul (obviously actually have a story behind it; have that be why Maul’s crime syndicate crumbles, because it gets too much attention from the Empire and Vader goes to wipe out Maul). Show him scouring the galaxy for Obi-Wan. Show his true power. And I’d kill for an adaptation of the comic arc in which he gets his first lightsaber and corrupts his kyber crystal. Just looking at those comic panels gives me chills, I can’t imagine how incredible it would be to see that on the big screen.

And if they can, actually give the Royal Guards something to do.

I’ve seen quite a few edits of the prequel trilogy that completely remove Yoda having a lightsaber, and people generally criticize that they gave him a lightsaber as they feel it’s inconsistent his character in the original trilogy. This is true, but I think people who do this miss that him not being the same as he was in the original trilogy was the point. I think it represents character growth for him between the prequels and the originals.

Remember when Yoda said “Wars not make one great” in Empire Strikes Back? He learned that from the Clone Wars. I mean, how else would he learn it, there was no other wars in his lifetime (the Sith had been extinct for a millennia by The Phantom Menace, and he was less then 900 years old in that movie), and things are learned best from experience. He learned from the Clone Wars that war, violence, and swinging around with a lightsaber wasn’t the solution to anything. It actually allowed the Sith to rise to power.

When he says “Failed I have” in Revenge of the Sith, he isn’t just talking about losing to Sidious in a duel, he’s talking about how he failed the galaxy because the Jedi Order lost its way. Did the Clone Wars make him great? No. The Clone Wars destroyed the Jedi Order and forced him to live a life of solitude on Dagobah while the two Sith Lords ruled the galaxy, one of them who was supposedly the Chosen One meant to destroy the Sith. That’s what he meant.

It’s only through the teachings of Qui-Gon, who became his master after Revenge of the Sith and was basically the perfect Jedi, even if nobody could see it, was Yoda able to grow into the character he is in Empire Strikes Back.

Besides, he also does tell Luke that he needs to kill Vader in Return of the Jedi. Not exactly the most pacifist thing to do. He also says, “Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor”, which obviously means he faced him before.

I think it all makes Yoda a much more compelling character. There’s things to learn even for the oldest and the wisest. He was even wrong to a degree in the original trilogy: as mentioned earlier, he and Obi-Wan thought Vader had to be killed. But Luke believed he could be redeemed, and he was right.

EDIT: I retract what I said here in this thread. I’ve realized for awhile now that it wasn’t Lucas’ intent to have a character arc for Yoda in the prequels in which he realizes that war is wrong.

Lucas’ intent was to show that the Jedi participating in the war was hindering their values, even if they had no other choice. Yoda, like every Jedi, was put in a tough spot, in which he was forced to fight. It’s not about Yoda learning to be non-violent (he’s the same in the prequels as he is in the OT), but about the Jedi being put in a no-win situation, as elaborated in this brilliant Quora answer.
https://qr.ae/pvuA2y

As George elaborates (in this quote he’s responding to a question asking if the Jedi are like police officers).

GEORGE LUCAS: No. They’re not like cops who catch murderers. They’re warrior-monks who keep peace in the universe without resorting to violence. The Trade Federation is in dispute with Naboo, so the Jedi are ambassadors who talk both sides and convince them to resolve their differences and not go to war. If they do have to use violence, they will, but they are diplomats at the highest level. They’ve got the power to send the whole force of the Republic, which is 100 000 systems, so if you don’t behave they can bring you up in front of the Senate. They’ll cut you off at the knees, politically.

They’re like police officers. As the situation develops in the Clone Wars they are recruited into the army, and they become generals. They’re not generals. They don’t kill people. They don’t fight. They’re supposed to be ambassadors. There are a lot of Jedi that think that the Jedi sold out, that they should never have been in the military, but…

PAUL DUNCAN: Do you think that?

GEORGE LUCAS: It’s a tough call. It’s one of the conundrums of which there’s a bunch of in my movies. You have to think it through. Are they going to stick with their moral rules and all be killed, which makes it irrelevant, or do they help save the Republic? They have good intentions, but they have been manipulated which was their downfall.

Vader’s journey to becoming Anakin again didn’t start in Return of the Jedi nor in the time between then and this movie, it started when Luke dropped into the abyss.

When Vader is going on to Luke about how they can team up, kill the Emperor, and rule the galaxy together, he’s pretty much pouring his heart out to him. He’s talking to him the same way he talked to Padme. But when Luke, by his actions, basically says “I’d rather die then join you”, that actually hurts him, deeply, as any rejection would.

Between that moment and the end of Revenge of the Sith, Vader was completely focused on the dark side and being a Sith, but this was the moment that actually brought some of Anakin out of him again. The telepathic conversation between the two pretty much cements this in my view: when he says “Son, come with me”, Vader isn’t talking to him like an evil Sith lord, he’s talking to him like a father.

It’s why he went from being the most powerful Sith of all time, with incredible feats such as ripping open the crust of Mustafar and the netherworld of the Force itself against it’s will (as seen in the comics taking place between ROTS and ANH) to being bested by Sidious (as seen in the new comics; Sidious literally outright states that it’s because he’s lost a lot of his power) and eventually Luke. It created a rift in his connection with the dark side, and he was hugely conflicted.

The arc was completed in Return of the Jedi, but it started here.

When/where will these edits be available?

Will that be included in the HD version? I hope it will, I really liked that addition.

Edit the Stormtrooper’s casual conversation when Obi-Wan disables the tractor beam in ANH so instead of talking about ships one of them is talking about a one-night stand they had.

I just thought of another idea for my Vader duel scene idea that I think is awesome and would add a layer of character to Vader: if he, at some point during the duel, asked one of the Jedi in a very commanding, interrogating tone, “Where is Kenobi?” I think just that alone would make him look even more relentless, as it would show how after all of those years he still really wants to kill his old master, the one that maimed him.

New blog post updating ya’ll on what’s been going on with the project! We’ve got some new dinosaur models finished and in the making, a scene is currently being worked on, and the documentary has a new logo!

https://dinosauriadocu.wixsite.com/dinosauriadocu/post/thanksgiving-2020-update-new-dinosaur-models-new-logo-etc

Enjoy your avian dinosaur dinner!

Add this to The Phantom Menace

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WyG5ZFf8mk

That’s a really dickish thing to say. How else did you want him to do some of these things, go back in time and try and edit the script and/or convince the entire filming crew to make the new scenes?

Anyway, I’ve watched the edit, and I think it’s quite impressive. I do love Vader going to Coruscant, the visuals are fantastic and it was implemented well, even if it makes both Vader and the Emperor’s arrivals feel weird as they are clearly made to be the character’s first appearance. I would’ve moved the shot tilting up to reveal Vader when he arrives on the Death Star to that scene and changed the colors. The shots in that scene are also noticeably stretched; I think it would’ve been better to zoom them in then stretch them horizontally. But none of those ruin my enjoyment of the scene. I also love Luke being on Dagobah first. The deleted scenes mesh surprisingly well, though I’d be lying if I said it was seamless. It’s good to see Luke making his lightsaber back. I really love the thing that was done with Vader communicating with Luke in the meditation chamber while he’s in his X-Wing. The fan-film footage was all cool, though sometimes it was distractingly low quality. I was disappointed to see that the Boba Fett subplot advertised in the OP wasn’t present, that was probably the thing I was most excited to see. I guess that wasn’t implemented when this workprint was released. I also don’t really care for removing Luke and Leia being siblings. I never minded it and it’s been so engrained into the saga at this point that I can’t imagine it not being true (especially since I wasn’t around before it was true). It especially doesn’t work when Vader brings up his twin sister to taunt him even though according to this he has no twin sister. I agree with every bullet point in the OP but removing the two’s relation.

Overall though it was very enjoyable.

Yeah I’m dying for a new Vader duel that actually shows him battling and defeating Jedi Masters

I know this would probably be something that most people would say no to, but I think it’d be really cool to have a scene of Vader wiping out Jedi in a duel as a new extended intro for A New Hope. It would be a fierce duel against multiple remaining Jedi that have all come out of hiding and teamed up in coordination with the Rebel Alliance as a distraction from the Battle of Scarif so that Vader is occupied during the battle to increase the Rebels chances of successfully retrieving the plans. The odds would be way against him but he of course would prevail due to his sheer skill and strength (being the most powerful force user at the time of course), before being notified about the Battle of Scarif. So we see what he was doing between his meeting with Krennic and his arrival at the Battle of Scarif. Maybe he gets his chest plate damaged so after the duel he temporarily swaps it with an inferior smaller one until he gets a new one, which is why his chest plate is different in ANH from the rest of the saga. I think it’d work as a way of showcasing how much of a powerful juggernaut Vader is, thereby making him more terrifying and threatening overall in the OT, and so all of Vader’s best feats aren’t just from the comics and other supplemental material. Plus IMO more lightsaber duels in the OT wouldn’t be a bad thing. I think it’d be awesome and no harm done, especially if its just an alternate version.

It’s something I’d love to do as an alternate version of my ANH fan-edit. As for how to actually make it, basically my thought would be using footage from fan-films a lot like daneditor did with his ROTJ radical edit. Episode 2 of Star Wars Theory’s Vader fan-film looks promising; Mace Windu could just be edited to be another Jedi by changing his lightsaber color, and there’s also going to be other Jedi aiding him in the fan-film (the concept art looks really awesome), and I’m sure we’ll see them duel Vader. I could just take clips from the duel(s) and compile them together to be coherent. I mean, the thing isn’t out yet so there really isn’t any way to predict exactly what it’ll be like but from what I know right now I could see it as a definite possibility.

ray_afraid said:
No, it’s censorship. The edits are the only times we see unmasked humans being shot by our heroes & reacting in pain & “violent” death. The rest of the time it’s not in close-up, or it’s troops in masks.

Ah, I see. Well I guess that’s like half a point off for the special edition; it’s a little childish and stupid of a change but unless someone is actually really paying attention it’s not something that really harms much. Definitely not anywhere near as bad as Greedo shooting, which just ruins character and looks awful.

Definite no. They froze him in the last movie and then did a whole mission to bring him back. Having him then die would just make it feel like the writers are just trying to be tear jerky and play with our emotions. You sort of kill him, then you bring him back, then you kill him again for real… you don’t see how that wouldn’t just feel like its emotionally manipulating you? It would be more annoying then anything else.

There is a 1080p upscale of ESB:R done by bryantmh, you can ask him for the link

I’m going to be the one guy who says the special editions, though my top preference is watching fan-edits because they usually give me the best of both worlds. I can have the best changes and remove the worst changes.

First of all, I’d want to retain all of the movie mistake fixes and visual effect improvements the SE made, like removing matte lines.

For ANH, I don’t like the Jabba scene or Greedo shooting first at all but none of the rest bother me so much. In fact I really like some of the additions. I like the expanded Mos Eisley, the original looks so dull. There’s only people and some droids. Yes the slapstick with the Jawa falling off the Ronto and the Ronto walking right in front of the camera was annoying and cringeworthy, but I liked the addition of the Ronto when it wasn’t in your face (having animals makes it look so much more interesting) and overall making the city look larger, more diverse and populated. I like the new CG Dewbacks, the old one wasn’t organic at all, it couldn’t move. Love the new Sandcrawler shot (rather then the dull looking wide) and Tatooine evening wide shot when R2 is wandering alone. I love how they added Biggs. And pretty much all of the new visual effects are a plus (the CG ships, new explosions, etc.). Actually seeing the X-Wings in the wide shot when they’re flying away from the base and towards the Death Star especially. Originally they just indicated them using their engine lights and it just looks weird. They overall definitely improved the Battle of Yavin.

Basically, everything in this video I consider good changes (the subtle censorship I don’t really care about, the fact that others were left in makes me think it wasn’t censorship but rather Lucas thinking they reacted to late or that it looked fake rather then him thinking seeing people get shot is bad): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvbrVFP_f0w

For Empire Strikes Back it’s the special edition, no contest. The only thing that even bothers me there is the extended Vader arriving on the Star Destroyer that messes with the pacing and “You were lucky to get out of there”, but these are minor. I much prefer seeing the Wampa rather then teasing it (we already saw the headshot of it earlier anyway, teasing it isn’t even being mysterious or hiding its appearance; plus it’s still suspenseful seeing the Wampa feed on the carcass; in fact I’d say it’s way more scary seeing the Wampa turn his attention to Luke then seeing nothing). I much prefer Ian McDiarmid as the Emperor then the abomination from the original. The music transitions were better. Cloud City was improved in every way. The new CG outside shots were a plus and actually having windows and seeing outside rather then it feeling subterranean and claustrophobic was fantastic. And I’d rather watch a version where the Imperial badges are in their correct position during that one scene near the end.

In Return of the Jedi, I prefer the planetary celebrations (the new music is so much better) and Hayden as Anakin (sacrilegious I know). I prefer the more alive Sarlacc with actual tentacles instead of tiny stubs (I feel like the part where it grabs Lando works better and is more tense with it looking more alive). I like the added Bantha shot in the desert. I hate Jedi Rocks but I like Oola falling into the pit and Boba being a flirt. I like removing Anakin’s eyebrows. I despise Vader saying “NOOOOOOO” though. But still overall I prefer the special edition.

IMO it’s actually ANH that’s the black sheep of the OT and not ROTJ. ESB and ROTJ both had much more more emotional depth then ANH which glossed over even a whole planet’s destruction with a population of millions to just be a fun space epic. ANH is still a great film but I’m willing to admit there’s some deep emotional depth not touched on in there, and dark stuff that doesn’t feel as dark as it really is because of the way it’s presented. You have an entire planet blown up full of millions of people glossed over, Leia doesn’t even have a scene where she grieves over it, Leia gets tortured and it doesn’t feel as dark as it should (compare with the similar scene in ESB with Vader and Han, in which you have dark music and hear Han’s painful screams), and Luke is stone cold when his best friend dies and there’s no mention of him afterwards. I will give it credit for Owen and Beru’s death, Luke mourning Obi-Wan and Obi-Wan recalling the fall of the Republic though (the looks on his face perfectly show that he’s been through some tragic stuff).

Plus it has no Imperial March, it was before Vader underwent his epic makeover (new shiny helmet, way cooler looking chest plate, actual chest lights, etc.; he didn’t look bad at all in ANH, he still looks awesome, but I feel like anybody who says they didn’t improve his look in ESB onwards is lying to themselves), it looks like its on less of a budget (which to be fair is because it was), in general aesthetic ESB and ROTJ look more alike then ANH does to ESB and ROTJ, ANH focuses a lot less on powerful Force users like the Jedi and Sith and more on more… I guess ordinary people? Like pilots, bounty hunters and politicians (ordinary is probably a bad word and an understatement but compared to Jedi and Sith they definitely feel ordinary). Which in and of itself isn’t a bad thing (I love the Mandalorian… a ton; I think its because of emotional depth, stunning atmosphere and great character development that I don’t mind the fact that its less about force users) but I like more balance. Now I’m not hating on ANH here, it’s got great story, character development, revolutionary special effects, excellent music, it’s a ton of fun, yada yada yada, but I’m just saying why ROTJ has more appeal to my modern sensibilities. I love movies that make me feel and think more, and the thing that interests me most about Star Wars is the Jedi and Sith and the powerful force users in the PT and OT.

I know people will bring up the Ewoks as a way of saying how ROTJ is supposedly way more kid friendly, but think about the heavy stuff in the stuff with Vader, Luke, Sidious, Yoda, and Obi-Wan. That scene with Luke and Vader on Endor with Luke telling his father to come with him is one of my favorite movie scenes of all time and incredibly powerful and deep. It’s a meaningful, beautiful conversation between a son and his father who went on the wrong path and let his rage consume him and lost everything he had ever loved, and his son is trying to help him out of the horrible trap he’s fallen into. When Vader says “It’s too late for me, son”, that shit hits hard because I know what it’s like to hate myself because I messed up and think it’s too late for me to dig myself out of a hole I’ve dug myself into. It’s emotional and deep and part of why Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader is my favorite character of all time. Obi-Wan and Luke’s conversation on Dagobah is also very deep. Though I think someone said it’s because he was sick of doing the movies, Alec Guinness looking more tired and depressed actually works very well as he reminisces about Anakin and talks about how he’s “More machine then man.” And when Vader goes back to being Anakin and saves his son from the Emperor is my favorite movie scene of all time. It’s very dark and powerful. Luke’s screams for help are heart wrenching and when Anakin picks up the Emperor it feels so triumphant, and then it feels so touching when Luke goes over to his father and comforts him. Anakin’s death is also impactful and sad, I don’t cry but I almost do. The whole thing has the emotional depth of an ocean and it gives it the screen time and gravitas it deserves. The acting is utterly incredible and the character development is phenomenal and tugs at my heart.

Even think about some of the stuff at Jabba’s palace. You got sex slaves that are dropped to their death underneath a trap door where a monster will eat them if they are disobedient. If anything the Ewok stuff is there to balance the fact that everything else is so serious and dark. It’d be a very dour, dark film otherwise.

So yes, I’d say underrated. For me its ESB > ROTJ > ANH.

Link doesn’t work, just says “Sorry, we couldn’t find that page”

Does anyone have daneditor’s radical ROTJ edit? I know it’s from years ago but it has some really cool ideas, I’d love to see it and I’d honestly be sad if it were lost forever.

Damn, this thing may be years old but it’s got some awesome ideas! I would love to see it. Link?

I’ve encountered the same issue with all of his edits. At this point you’re better off getting them from 1337x.to.

TestingOutTheTest said:

To be fair Vader didn’t sense her death

But he did. That’s why he said “Where is Padme? Is she safe? Is she alright?” and “She was alive! I felt it!”

When he was being operated on, he could feel her presence, which is also why he said “Padme help me” as the mask was being lowered on him. But after the operation, she died and he couldn’t feel her anymore, which is why he was confused.

At least that’s how I interpreted it.

I also find it unbelievable that Padme wouldn’t try and track down Vader and bring him back to the light, and/or just raise both of the twins herself. Also wouldn’t Vader be able to feel that she’s still alive through the force?

I will also say my edit will keep Hayden

I checked and the Return of the Jedi one isn’t there.