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Gaffer Tape

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2-Jun-2005
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13-Nov-2019
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Post
#650796
Topic
All Things Star Trek
Time

Also I should mention, and this is no fault of the movie, is that, on this release at least, the Klingon and Vulcan subtitles are player generated and look like crap.  Is that across the board on this transfer?  I absolutely loathe that.  And to make it even worse, I popped in the disc for TWOK, and the Vulcan subtitles there were the original, real subtitles.  Why, why, why?!

I will say, as terrible as they look, they're one step above the Star Wars subtitles in that they're at least in the frame of the film rather than in the matte.

Post
#650787
Topic
All Things Star Trek
Time

Bingowings said:

It's much more naughty than having Carol Marcus reveal her pants to camera for no explicable reason.

Oh, believe me.  I definitely agree with that.  While I don't think TMP is as intellectual as its followers think, it's certainly leaps and bounds over the idiocy of the Abrams films.  I just think they both rely too heavily on special effects.

Post
#650766
Topic
All Things Star Trek
Time

Forgive my ignorance, as I haven't seen the Director's cut in five years, so my memory is a bit fuzzy, but, having now watched the original, I honestly didn't find much difference with the pacing.  If anything, the original seemed faster paced, as the Director's Cut made the overture even longer, and the original is lacking Ilia's random magical Chekov healing powers.  Also, I liked the original effects of the crew walking to V'Ger as opposed to the pixie dust bridge the Director's Version added.  But like I said, my memory of it is not good enough to make that judgment.  I just remember watching the Director's Version and thinking, "Geez, they say the pacing here is much better than the original cut.  How would I ever make it through that?"  But it certainly didn't seem any worse to me.

Okay, so now I've watched this movie twice in two days, the second time with commentary, and I am now ready to deliver my full opinions.  Well, to be honest, they're not much different from the thoughts I gave earlier when I was halfway through the film.

As I already said, I have enjoyed my time with this film, more so than I ever have before.  It is a beautiful film, and I appreciate it even more now that I know I'm seeing what was accomplished in the late 1970s and not having to wonder if this was something made decades later with the Director's Edition.  I would contend that no Star Trek film since has matched the impressive visuals of this film.  There are a few effects that don't hold up, but for the most part, there is a level of detail and majesty that looks perfect even today.

Also, as I said before, the amount of detail in regards to ship functions and ship locations is second to none in this movie.  I love getting to see the sonic showers and the rec room and the sickbay and all of its readouts, the thruster suit and all of its controls, the fact that the chair heads move up and down and the arm rests fold in for protection.  It's a nerd dream come true.  You really don't get to know the ship as well in the future films.

There is a really nice tone to this film.  It feels so different from any of the others.

That said, I still believe all of the above is definitely at the expense of telling a story and that the piecemeal way in which this was constructed definitely shows.  In many ways, it seems they were more interested in showing cool things than having a story happened.  Two of the most interesting and engaging sequences in the film are, in my opinion, the transporter accident and the wormhole journey.  However, neither of them have anything to do with the story (well, the former is a bit of an excuse to get Spock in the picture, but he was already on his way long before Sonak got turned into goo).  And it just seems they're there because they're things they couldn't have done on the television series.  That incredibly self-indulgent feeling permeates this film.  "We've never seen the Enterprise from 147 different angles.  Let's do that!  We've never seen someone killed by the transporter.  Let's do that!  We've never seen Kirk dressed like he's going to play tennis.  Let's put him in that for half the movie!"  Okay, that last one is obviously a jab at their terrible uniforms in this movie, but you get my point.

Up until the last 40-45 minutes, this movie feels incredibly padded (mostly by shots of the characters looking at stuff), because I just don't think there's enough story here to fill out 2 hours.  What story there is is very interesting, and it really does start to get good in that last stretch.  But all of that cool nerd stuff I mentioned earlier really seems to be there to distract you from the fact that the story's not going anywhere.

Finally, as for the characters, I do enjoy Spock's journey, and I give it a little more credit than Nimoy himself did (then again, Nimoy gave his approval to the Abrams films, so what does he know? ;-) ).  And, as I've already said, I enjoy the rivalry between Kirk and Decker, and Kirk is presented as an interesting, flawed person.  However, that's really only resolved by Decker disappearing, which is rather disappointing.  And while I like Decker, his decision at the end seems almost completely unmotivated.  He never expressed any kind of desire to reach a higher level of consciousness or make sweet, sweet love to a computer.  And it's in that moment that I realized I didn't really know Decker well enough to know what the hell it is he wants.  Well, the best I can come up with is, "Shit.  This is the worst day ever!  I lost my ship.  I got demoted.  My girlfriend got killed and replaced with a robot.  Fuck this.  I'm going to become a god and cast down my vengeful wrath on all you assholes!"  But from a production standpoint, it very much reeks of giving the film a personal cost but only by doing away with the expendable characters.  As for the rest of the cast... they're there.

To sum up, I can definitely understand why Jimmy Doohan fell asleep during the premiere.  This is one of the best examples of proving that a film can't stand up with just special effects, and there is a ridiculously high level of special effects.  They suffocate this film.  The plot meanders, and we're expected to be impressed because the movie looks impressive.  But it just needed more story.  But I did find it enjoyable, more so than I ever have before, and I'm glad to finally have it in my collection.  Thank you, Walmart, for packaging these two movies together so that I could pick up these original versions up without having to buy all the other movies that I already own.

Post
#650461
Topic
All Things Star Trek
Time

As for your question about the overture, I don't have problems with overtures (although having now seen the original version, I find it odd that its fanfare was on a completely blank screen).  You're asking me about each element on its own, but it's really not about that.  It's about the culmination of such things.  Right at this moment, I'm at the interminably long "flying into Vger" scene, and it's made me realize that, this moment, taken on its own, isn't necessarily bad.  Having this slow reveal could have built tension and wonder.  However, due to the way the movie is, it's nothing more than yet another slow scene.  So the overture isn't embarrassing because it's a overture.  It's embarrassing because it's the slow, long start before the slow, long Enterprise reveal before the slow, long Vger entrance after the slow, long leaving drydock sequence.  None of them are too bad on their own.  But they're all together, plodding, plodding, plodding.

Post
#650458
Topic
All Things Star Trek
Time

Believe me, I know ALL about the history of this movie.  I also know that Gene sabotaged the writing the entire way, that no one wanted to work with him, and that people thought it was boring even back in 1979.  The studio thought it was boring, Harve Bennett's first words upon being asked about Star Trek was that he thought the movie was boring.  George Takei's autobiography had nothing good to say about it.  Jimmy Doohan's didn't either.  Nor did Shatner's.  Nimoy thought Roddenberry had absolutely no idea what he was doing and said, and I quote, "What's it got to do with a story?"  Yeah, it was a big deal.  It was such a big deal it almost killed the franchise all over again, and it's why TWOK was seen as such a godsend.

Post
#650452
Topic
All Things Star Trek
Time

I knew Bingowings would sense my presence and come here.  ^_^

Anyway, I'm only about an hour in (not watching it all at once, as I have other things to get done), and I'm remembering exactly what I don't like about this movie but exactly what I did.  I do like the conflict between Kirk and Decker.  But the first half of the movie isn't a story (neither is the second half really, but I'm not there yet), it's a Technical Manual for the Enterprise.  And as a nerd I find that interesting.  When I first saw this movie I had seen the other films first, and I never felt I got to see or know the refitted Enterprise like the one I knew from television.  This was the one film that actually tried to do that, and I do appreciate that.  BUT a movie just doesn't have time for all of that.  It's cool to see every doodad come on, have a close-up on every panel, get to see how the training simulations work, see how every single bloody type of transport docks with the Enterprise, and experience every single step to leaving drydock (complete with turning all the running lights off only to immediately turn them back on again), but showing all of that is at the expense of telling the story.  Granted, in this case there was so little story I guess they really did have time for that, but that's the main problem.

So don't get me wrong.  As a hardcore Trekkie, I'm, you know, enjoying myself for all the minutiae and just poking a bit of fun at its expense on occasion, but watching with a critical eye that's just out to enjoy a story... it still doesn't work.  It does get a bit more enjoyable (or at least watchable) every time, but I'll never forget the first time I saw the film.  I was a senior in college and had rented it from Blockbuster.  I sat down that evening to watch and, to my surprise, one of my three roommates, the one who was least likely to give a shit about Trek, decided for some reason he wanted to sit down and watch this with me.  And I just felt so fucking embarrassed the entire time what with the overture, the four minutes of docking, the unexplained oath of celibacy line (seriously, he would not stop asking me what the hell that meant, and he's right.  It's just said!) and just the non-stop tedium and boredom and long, long, long shots of everything.  I just wanted to jump up and say, "No, really, Carl!  Star Trek isn't normally this boring and pointless.  Please don't judge it on this!"

To be honest, I do see this film and the reboots as almost exactly the same thing.  They both have really shallow plots and are filled to the brim with special effects.  The only difference is that TMP's special effects are slow and the reboot's special effects... have lens flares.

Post
#650401
Topic
All Things Star Trek
Time

You know, I'm not sure which thread is actually the Star Trek thread, so I'll just post this here.  Found a TMP and TWOK combo pack at Walmart for $10.  And while I think the Slow-Motion Picture is a pretty bad movie, I've never owned it, and I've never seen the original version, which this is.  I also assume this is the original theatrical version of TWOK, which I've also never seen, so I'm thinking this was a good deal.

Post
#649828
Topic
The Great Robot Chicken Debate--A Place Where Folks Can Argue Whether It's a Hilarious or Unfunny Show
Time

I enjoy Search for Spock, but you have to admit its plot makes no damned sense, and the more I watch it, the less sense it makes.  The main characters seem to do things only because they've apparently read the script and know what they're supposed to do.  They have no way of knowing that Spock's body is alive on Genesis, yet Sarek is demanding they go back there and pick him up?  Kirk talks about saving Spock's immortal soul... but they already have that!  It's in McCoy.  So what the hell were they planning to do with the body in the first place?  They obviously couldn't have been planning the refusion ceremony as T'Lar tells Sarek it's something only out of legend and presumably is only being able to be done here because Spock's body is, through fantastic circumstances, alive.  Which, again, is something they didn't know to even be possible when they set out to the Genesis planet.  So, again, why did they need Spock's body?  Because he is alive and could receive the katra... which they have no way of knowing.  So what is it they were trying to do in the first place?  I'm so confused!

Then, of course, there's the triumphant scene of Kirk going against orders, sacrificing his own career to go and get Spock... for nonsensical reasons... but it's still pretty cool to watch.  Except for the fact that there was absolutely no need for him to do that either!  "Gee, I need Spock's body... for some reason.  But the commander told me that no one but the science team is allowed to go to Genesis.  Hmm.  It's that same science team my son and former cadet are on.  Maybe I should just call them up and ask them to pick up Spock's body for me?  Nah, fuck that.  I'll just steal the Enterprise and jeopardize the careers of my fellow officers just because!  Hopefully I'll arrive just in time to intervene in an interstellar crisis that I have no idea is about to occur!"  It's like everything in this movie happens precisely to anticipate the next big thing that the characters should have no way of anticipating.  They really were writing this script starting from the end and working their way to beginning, and it shows.

Post
#646452
Topic
Are Muslims really trying to take over, or are some people just suffering from Islamaphobia?
Time

I just cannot bring myself to agree with this.  If you're going to make the argument that burkas are demeaning to women, I'd be a bit more sympathetic, even if I don't agree with banning them outright.  But just to say that they need to conform for conformity's sake... well, you should know me well enough by now to know that that's not something I find to be a very compelling reason.  People are individuals, not their place of living.  And while I agree they should be expected to adopt the laws of their new home, it's just silly to expect them to completely alter themselves for the sake of your level of comfort.

Post
#646444
Topic
Are Muslims really trying to take over, or are some people just suffering from Islamaphobia?
Time

I do find myself somewhat agreeing with Warbler.  Not that it's as black and white as that, but I still don't think banning the burka is going to do any good.  As has been said elsewhere in this thread, two wrongs don't make a right.  And forcing someone to wear that is wrong.  But so is banning someone from wearing it.  Like Warbler said, I consider it just as oppressive as the opposite.  Even if the freedom to not do so is not always easily taken, at least the option is there, and choice is almost always better than lack of choice.

Post
#646264
Topic
Are Muslims really trying to take over, or are some people just suffering from Islamaphobia?
Time

I'm not crazy about burkas myself, but, yeah, trying to ban them?  That's just ridiculous and stifling.  To force someone to wear a burka is wrong.  But to force them to not wear it is equally as wrong in my book.  And since a lot of the justification is seemingly because it just doesn't "fit" in this new culture, I'm going to be honest:  it seems rather childish.  The way other people dress does not affect you in any significant way.