Damn it! I've been away so long that I missed the entire Star Trek IV humpback gay jokes. Sigh... Oh, wait, that was a Warblerism. I need a Gafferism.
I just think it's a testament to his delusion that he would see that as criminal but what he's doing as just peachy,
I just love how the tone of the article I read this interview in seems to really be agreeing with this pity party. It was full of, "See, there's no more Star Wars, and it's your fault! If only you'd kissed his ass at every opportunity, he'd give us more movies." Really? This is how upside down Star Wars fandom is? I was under the impression that the creator had to appeal to the consumer, not the other way around. All it sounds like to me is the next in a long line of excuses, and this just sounds more "powerful" (read: whiny) than just, "Oh, the media made up the idea of sequels." I guess he realizes that too many people have read zombie's book and know that line is full of crap, so now there ARE possible Star Wars sequels, but he's just gonna take his ball and go home because we're all soooooo mean.
TV's Frink said:
Who misspelled Satan Claws?
Well, since you asked, it was Warb. It's a pet peeve of mine when people spell it like the title of the Tim Allen movie. It's a pun, people! It's not his actual name! =P
That could mean something entirely different taken out of context, as I have just done. :p
That's... what she said...?
Let's see here. Politics. Religion. Misspelling Santa Claus's name. All checked off the list. Now how about Christmas presents?
My girlfriend got me Batman The Animated Series on DVD. Very good job for a first time. I think I might keep her around. ^_^
Doesn't really seem like much of a point. Really kind of a strawman, actually. You could defend ANYTHING by saying that nature does it too.
"More trees smash into people's houses due to natural causes than due to chainsaw-wielding maniacs." So what?
Ah. This thread brings back so many memories. Like how I posted so many times in adywan's thread that JT34 blocked me. Oh, wait. I never did that. Or wait! Those times I mocked DTS... or praised DTS? Wait, I can't remember. Which one was I not supposed to like? But I actually didn't do that either.
Why am I ignored again?
Well, I guess I won't torture you this time. I had a feeling people would dispute serial vs. feature, but since it premiered in theatres, I consider it to count. And it was also shot on film... =P But, yeah, it's my plan to continue pointing out differences between the two versions. There are some more funny line changes, but most of them aren't quite as jaw-droppingly crazy as that first one, I'm disappointed to say.
As for the DBoxes, that does piss me off too. I guess we here are used to the "limited editions" of George Lucas, which states that a two month limited release will be available for five years. But to limit them before the entire line is out... that's just wrong. It would be nice if they would re-release them down the line in a bare-bones slimpack at least. These masters deserve to be the default DVD release and don't just need to exist for a limited time.
bkev said:
That was Twist...
Well, I was talking about the first one, which was... Tobar, actually. Damn, kev, leave me alone! =P
Harumph. A little late for the "fight" gifs, since we'd already made our peace. Not your best, Frink. ^_~
Anyway, I know I'm in a lose-lose situation, at least as far as my perspective is concerned. People want TNG in hi-def, and there is no way to do that seamlessly given the effects. Believe me. I am aware of that. I'd just hate for this new version to become the default TNG. It's quite a conundrum.
Geez, has it already been almost three years since I did Batman and Robin? Well, now I'm going back to where I began, and reviewing what I consider to be the far superior serial... albeit with lots of insane racism running rampant.
I have not changed my tune at all. I am still against it. I don't know how much clearer I can make that. I don't think it's necessary, and I personally don't believe it's right to alter stuff like this, no matter the reason. That does not mean that I'm saying that you cannot enjoy it. And if the originals were included with this release (like, for example, the TOS Blu-rays), then I would not be expressing much concern. I don't see how I have been anything but consistent in that view, although I still have trouble reconciling how it's consistent with the message of this site. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make my opinion, but I'm getting a bit weary of having to reiterate it to you.
Also, in your zeal to try to make me out as inconsistent, you failed to note:
Perhaps I'm not clear. We WANT them to re-do the SFX form TNG and Bab5? I thought this website is against that type of thing?
I never said that. That was TheBoost. But since I agree with this statement whole-heartedly, I can see how you made that mistake.
Finally, to answer your question: the same way every other movie studio constantly re-releases things without altering the content. It happens all the time, and people still buy re-releases. And before you get on to me for saying that, that's not necessarily what I'm saying they should do in this situation. You just asked me this question, and I gave you a plausible scenario.
Now, if we're just criticizing each other for having different opinions, then I don't see the point in continuing this. But if you have anything else you'd like to actually discuss, I'm all for it. And I apologize that this thread has gotten so heated.
I'm not sure why you take issue with it. I don't see the point, just like I don't see the point of EVER altering a movie, TV show, what have you, regardless of the reason. Unless footage was completely missing, lost to time, every print destroyed I would never believe it necessary to recreate it. That's just my opinion on the subject. You think I'm here to rain on your parade. I'm not. If you want recreated effects, wonderful. I hope you enjoy them immensely. But that's not why I'm concerned about the subject. My only concern is the future of the original versions.
You do bring up a good point that many effects shots were not standalone and combined with footage of the actors. That point had honestly failed to cross my mind and does make the subject of seamless branching a little more difficult.
Chewtobacca said:
Of course it's not, but the point is that you said that you didn't see how it was different from "George's line" when it quite clearly is. Lucas modifies Star Wars to bring it in line with what he claims to be his original vision. What Paramount is doing is in no way comparable.
My opinion on the subject has nothing to do with motivations, methods, outcome, visions, or anything like that. My only point is, "This is/will be available. This isn't/won't be." So whether it's true to the original intent or if they simply put in a CG screaming frog in every new effects shot, it wouldn't make any difference to what point I'm trying to get across.
The originals were not in HD, and as your opinion is...... I don't see why you care enough to bother to post in the Blu-ray thread and argue about it. If that's your view, an HD version couldn't possibly satisfy you Just be happy with the DVDs.
And what if I want to see the best possible version of the live action elements with the best possible version of the original effects? And "Just be happy with the DVDs" does sound exactly like something a Star Wars fan would say to one of us.
You missed the point. All of the original effects are on the original negative (and/or whatever prints survive), so an HD version could be made without redoing all the effects. That's not the case for TNG: the effects are not part of the negative. They were done on video.
No. I'm not missing that point. I know exactly how TNG was made, and why some people feel redoing the effects is necessary. I just disagree. It seems you're missing my point, which is all about whether or not the original effects continue to be made available for current and future releases. As is often said in Star Wars threads here, "Why not make everyone happy?"
Chewtobacca said:
They seem to be taking great care to be true to the original.
Taking great care to be true to the original is still not the same as the original.
Recreating the effects is necessary for the conversion to true HD in the case of TNG because it was a TV show that went through post production in video, not a motion picture.
I'm aware of that, although I have to say that my opinion in this case would honestly be, "Well, it wasn't made to be seen in HD? Too bad. It is what it is." I certainly don't see it as at all necessary. Interesting, maybe, but no more necessary than a digital Yoda or a new CG Jabba every seven years. Because to me, that's what it comes down to: technology has superceded special effects/television resolution from a different era. I don't see it as necessary to make changes to force it to keep up. But I would be fine with it as long as the original effects were on there as well. They did it for TOS. There's no reason they shouldn't do it here. Hopefully they will.
It's not necessary for Star Wars to go through post production again to have a quality release.
Tell that to the people arguing in the General Star Wars section whether or not recomping the original effects digitally would count as the original or is something that needs to be done. Or tell it to the fandom at large, many of whom DID and DO feel that the CG updates were necessary for the films to exist in this modern world.
If you don't want that, then just buy the DVDs.
But is that always going to be a viable option? That's my point. Fifteen, twenty years from now, is that version of the show going to be readily available? Or will it just be the new effects?
I think he's saying that people who are watching the DVDs are watching them upconverted.
It's not entirely analogous, but to say it's nothing like it is silly. That is, unless I've misunderstood the entire purpose of this site for the past seven years. Isn't the point that the originals are not readily available, that they only exist in either unofficial fan preservations or as out-of-print rarities while a new version takes its official place? That history is being buried and rewritten? The only difference I see is that TNG at least got to a home video video generation that could fully take advantage of what it was originally shown to be before it was knocked off, while sheer timing prevented Star Wars from achieving that same end.
Allow me to put it another way: let's say the Special Editions did not happen until now. That the original versions were put out on this year's Blu-ray set, and just now George Lucase made the announcement that he would be updating the special effects, and that he would never again be releasing the originals. Sure, the fact that it's on Blu-ray would be great, would make it easy for high quality fan copies (or at least in our present perspective), but you're telling me that no one would be upset that Lucas was still trying to bury the original versions, regardless of when it happened to take place? The law of diminishing returns makes it less and less likely, but couldn't you imagine someone saying, fifteen years down the line, "The Blu-rays release don't look like Star Wars looked in 1977, not compared to the home video format we use now!"
Then again, this is entirely predicated on my fear that there won't be seamless branching. If there is, then, you're right. This is nothing like Star Wars. But if there isn't, then the only real difference I see is, "I happen to approve of this change, so it's okay, but I don't approve of this change, so it's not okay."
Since I’m always the last one to the party, chances are that everyone has seen this already, but I just found it, thought it was hilarious, and wanted to share it with everyone.
The premise: Take dialogue clips from other works James Earl Jones has done and stick them into Darth Vader’s piehole. The result is often hilarious. There are a few bits that seems too random, but, overall, there are a lot of hilarious gems. Not sure what the thing with Billy Joel is at the end, but I can never have enough Billy Joel, so I am not complaining
That's what I'm trying to find out. The TOS Blu-rays do indeed. If that's the case with TNG, then great, more power to them, not that I would probably ever bother to watch the redone stuff (although I'm still concerned about what looks like an altered color palette).
I'm just not sure I see how completely redoing the effects from the ground up is "restoration rather than alteration." Certainly seems like the very definition of alteration to me. And if the original work is only going to end up being relegated to old, eventually out-of-print DVDs that can only be found used, how is that any different from George's line of, "The originals are out there on VHS, if anyone wants them"?
Mmmm. Berries...
And I think I just hijacked my own thread. Frink should be proud.
Meh. Hate to keep raining on this parade, but I still don't see the point of redoing the effects for HD anyway. And some of those have been altered significantly. And then there were a few live action shots that looked like the color palette had been greatly altered. I find myself very wary, especially in regards to what will become of the original effects shots.
I should do a review on that... May I use those, ahem, pics you sent me?
Hi, Frink! How's tricks?
Funny that you never did grab them considering you were the person who convinced ME to get them. =P Anyway, thanks for posting this. Sorry I haven't been around lately.
And, yeah, resellers are getting the prices up that high. On the (becoming more and more frequently rare) chance you find one in stock, though, the prices are pretty good.